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Video Proof of Surelock hacking (youtube.com)

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[–]ZP_TV -7ポイント-6ポイント  (42子コメント)

So, I'd like to be the voice of reason here if possible and explain why fast moving high level plays look fishy on kill cams / potg.

The short reason: Kill Cams / POTG are NOT direct 1 to 1 representations of what the player did. The part of the server that handles replays is updating at a lesser rate, and as a result data is effectively missing. It's not a big deal for low speed plays, but high speed twitch shots can be missing frames which can make legitimate plays look robotic on playback.

Surefour is almost certainly not cheating in any of these clips. You're effectively being fooled by the server playback not being representative of what actually happened.

[–]Paragon_Flux 43ポイント44ポイント  (22子コメント)

I was fully on board the skeptic train until I saw this:

https://gfycat.com/AmusedPaleJanenschia

It seems like he is trying to hit the Winston, but the soft-lock was closer to Zarya, you can even see him trying to move the aim to Winston but it keeps snapping back to Zarya.

Definitive proof? I don't think that is possible without a confession, but this is the most suspect thing I've seen.

[–]Microchaton 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah ok I wasn't convinced either but this one is particularly fishy. Still no 100% because of the tickrate and whatnot but this definitely looks suspicious.

[–]ZP_TV -16ポイント-15ポイント  (8子コメント)

What it really boils down to, (and I'm pretty sure it was worse on earlier patches than it is now), is that the Kill Cam is going to literally make up small movements to match the hits that happened at points.

Tracer looks jumpier than she should with less than exact tracking because her spread means multiple people are getting hit. Because of the wonkiness of the POTG recording, this gets interpolated as the person aiming in places they weren't actually aiming. So what from Surefour's POV could be aim that was a little wobbly between Zarya / Winston ends up getting interpreted as jagged movements between the two instead.

The easiest way to see the jagged movement effect is doing low sens / high speed widow sniping and getting a POTG. It won't happen every time, but often times you'll see the movement snap in odd and unnatural ways that it absolutely did not over the course of gameplay.

I'm not 100% sure if you can fully replicate the Winston / Zarya clip now due to a patch ago feeling buggier, but you can definitely come close.

The TL;DR is: Kill Cams / POTGs take a lot of shortcuts due to how they're designed. A side effect of those shortcuts is that natural wobbles end up getting interpreted as suspicious looking locks instead. Which means using Kill Cam / POTG footage to prove cheating is basically useless until it's patched to be 1 to 1 representative of what's going on in game.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]FuriousNarwallNeed help? PM me![M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Please be cvil

    [–]SaiNTishNHitscan: 76 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I see what you're saying but isn't that how spectating works as well? It might be worse in kill cams/PotG but i'd assume its a similar process when spectating someone.

    Because if you use the explanation of killcams/PotG not being 1:1 representations of what's happening people are gonna take clips that are from tournies when you are spectating them and just say that those are 1:1 and accurate representations.

    I'm saying this because i come from the csgo scene and have seen people throw accusations from watching a tournament (which uses gotv to try to predict what is really happening just like every other game) and taking the videos as accurate representations and then after the tournament they release in eye demos (which are accurate since its a demo recorded only from their pov, just like recording their screen would be accurate) and they see that the two arent even close to each other, that there is a big difference of what really happened.

    (I've already seen like 5 out of 10 answer to your comment saying it wasnt a potg or kill cam but them spectating.)

    [–]SloggraXXL 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You should be ashamed that you're making these posts based off of no information, knowing that you're a figure in the community with persuasion. What you're saying is literally just made up, plenty of these clips aren't POTG or killcam, and when slowed down 1/5 speed are VERY fluid and not jumpy at all. Keep your biased defensive shit to yourself.

    [–]fraacmonkey 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    ZP, you can see the spectator hud in that clip, so it wasn't a POTG or killcam. Would this have made a difference? You seem to understand the technology pretty well, certainly better than me.

    [–]SaiNTishNHitscan: 76 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Look at what I wrote about that just above you(in my answer to zp).

    [–]SloggraXXL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He doesn't know though. Literally just typing bullshit.

    [–]GoellsMercy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That one doesn't make any sense either. If it was a hack it would lock onto the closest target, meaning stay on Zarya the whole time, or lock the center or top of their combined blob which it doesn't. An aim hack wouldn't jump from head to head before one target is dead.

    [–]PimpdaddyChasePharah 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's not POTG and Kill cams. These were captured from the hoster's view in spectate.

    [–]SaiNTishNHitscan: 76 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Spectating isnt accurate aswell just like potg and kill cams.

    [–]Warskull 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I agree with you that the video isn't solid evidence of hacking. Yes, he tracked that Reinhardt amazingly well. However, that is something a great player could do.

    Watch the clips from this post:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4ihlm7/video_proof_of_surelock_hacking/d2y8c1e

    There is some pretty unnatural aim there. In the first clip when the Lucio and Winston cross watch how the aim snaps to lucio.

    In the third clip you also see some very suspicious behavior. Watch the aim jump from winston to zarya, to winstons head, to zarya's head. It is very snappy and precise, and this clip is slowed down.

    In this clip wathc how as the other tracer jumps his aim snaps up to her head after a second.

    I would say I am pretty confident he is hacking.

    [–]MizerokRominusMercy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Are the replays the interpolated corrects on the server and not the client side replay though? POTG is one thing but gameplay of server-corrected footage is different.

    [–]MercWithaMouseMei 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That's definitely true. Anybody who has played knows sometimes knows what you saw yourself doing in the game doesn't always match what the killcam saw.

    I'm not 100% convinced by this, even though a lot of them look suspicious. A lot of people are just really good at tracking and predicting.

    [–]Surehack 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Custom lobbies have 60Hz up and down, compared to quick play games, which have 60Hz up and 20Hz down. These clips are from the spectator perspective, i.e. 60Hz.

    [–]theStrohTorbjörn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The short reason: Kill Cams / POTG are NOT direct 1 to 1 representations of what the player did. The part of the server that handles replays is updating at a lesser rate, and as a result data is effectively missing.

    Is this the same for the spectator POV though? Most of the clips I've seen in this thread aren't from a POTG or a Kill Cam, but from a spectator first-person POV during the tournament.

    [–]SaiNTishNHitscan: 76 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It should be the same yes, the only way to not get that by spectating is if they are recording their screen or maybe spectate them playing on LAN. (It's the same way in csgo).

    [–]Agrippa619 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Personally I don't want to believe Surefour is cheating either, and I think OP's gif does a pretty bad job of proving anything, but this other post (https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4ihlm7/video_proof_of_surelock_hacking/d2y8c1e) is another matter. Have you seen the tracking in the two first gifs? I won't say its conclusive proof but that's fishy as hell, and not POTG/Kill cam footage as far as I can see.

    [–]HateBNS -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

    ^ Literally one of the casters of the tourney, if the 8k elo Open Beta redditors don't believe him, then continue witchhunting

    [–]OsiininLúcio 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    How does that affect anything? Him being the caster?

    His information is great and people should be made aware of it and its great he chimed in, but him being the caster doesn't make it true or false.

    (and to be clear, I am not saying the accussed is or isn't hacking)

    [–]HateBNS -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It means he has been around the scene for months, has more and better insight in how the game works, and what was happening than all of these redditors that have just joined in a week ago to play OB. Even if he were botting, which I highly doubt it is, reddit witchhunting even on this game just to discredit's someone's work over clips that can be perfectly done by a human shows a sad future for this game and will demotivate many from even investing time into the game to become better, just in fear to be the next witch