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Was Schneiderlin worth the money we paid for him? (self.reddevils)

debrocker が 投稿

I know it's still too early to tell, but the season basically ends and Morgan still isn't our first team player, sitting on the bench week after week. For the money, he should perform a bit better, especially since he's not a novice in the EPL

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[–]ZachMichSchweinsteiger 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think Morgan has been decent this season. But i honestly thought he would be a lot better. I think it has a bit to do with the role he has here compared to when he was at Southampton. He is more defensive and so has less freedom than before. I think the money we paid will be worth it in the end as he will definitely improve and players in that role tend to get better with age and experience. I'm hoping he does as he's a player i like

[–]LDN2016 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

He looked good last year because of the system and because he was star man. He's playing at a similar level.

S'oton played a very compact, defensive system where he was DM next to an even more defensive DM next to him in Wanyama. They finished 7th for good reason, Koeman's system is like Moyes' system. It's not a system that's going to get you 80 points or 80 goals. It's a pragmatic system to survive. We're getting similar results out of our midfield as S'oton got out of their last year. Only we're a bit better at controlling possession because of Carrick.

He will never be good enough for a title challenge as a starter. Even teams that play a dedicated DM have guys that are actually very good on the ball like Matic, Xabi, Busquets, Motta/Veratti etc. etc.

In the DM position he can't get in a French midfield ahead of Lassana Diarra, Guilavogui, Gonalons, Mavuba and Coquelin.

At CM he is behind Pogba, Matuidi, Kante, Cabaye, Kondogbia and Moussa Sissoko.

Most of the players ahead of him are not good enough for a title winning team either.

That's his level.

He's a perfectly good squad player to have as rotation when you need to play lower table teams or as a sub too shut out matches.

[–]ZachMichSchweinsteiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with most of that, I hope he can improve his ability on the ball and attacking side i.e passing. I think he could be a great rotational player here and i'm sure he would regain his place in the France squad if he gets more consistent game time next year. Do you think he would be better as a holding mid in a 3 or the more defensive of a 2?

[–]BertrandRusDave -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

He will never be good enough for a title challenge as a starter.

Bit early to start saying that. I'd like to see him under Mourinho, hopefully he can become what Matic was for Chelsea last season, who got so much more freedom to venture into the final attacking third unlike Schneiderlin under LVG.

[–]LDN2016 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

more freedom to venture into the final attacking third unlike Schneiderlin under LVG.

Your problem is that the defensive midfielder doesn't have enough freedom despite making 3 runs into the box yesterday and scuffing a shot from 10 yards out.

and your solution is that mourinho of all managers will give the deensive midfielder more freedom to attack.

.

just think on it for a second.

[–]danskzwag -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Last year he was better than matic

[–]LDN2016 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

delusional.

[–]YoungJumpWazza 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love to praise our players too but he really wasn't, as good of a season as he's had, Matic was easily better

[–]Edin19 16ポイント17ポイント  (9子コメント)

I find it hard to judge most of our players because i'm not 100% sure if they're bad or if it's just the system. Look at Liverpool under Rodgers compared to Liverpool under Klopp for example. I won't judge most of our new players until next year when we hopefully have a different manager. Schneiderlin has been good defensively but he lacks a lot going forward, but like i said i'm not sure if thats due to the system or not, because that's the same for many of our players.

[–]koba-311 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

It might be due to the system, but we can't play Schneiderlin against a team like Norwich at home and expect him to just make interceptions and tackles, he should be able to attack or make some kind of attacking plays rather than just defend. It is the reason why I think he doesn't get picked often. The team already lacks creativity, we need a creative outlet from the midfield as well. Schneiderlin has to improve on his attacking side of the game if he is to be a starter under any manager at United next season.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree. He needs to play with a more creative midfielder, and that's always going to limit our options. His passing hasn't really been impressive, and if we pay out the ass for Sanches, you would expect Sanches to compete for his btb place.

[–]koba-311 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, also the reason why I think Felli gets picked with Carrick is because he can kind of play in that box to box role. Carrick can start plays from the back and defend, while Felli can attack and defend kinda. If Sanches comes, he would definitely start at that btb role and if Carrick is let go, Scheiderlin has to start making plays from the back. As of now, I think he can be used in big games where we need to mark a player or go against an attacking team away from home. But all this talk about him having to start every game by United fans isn't pragmatic, for example, what do people think he is going to do against Bournemouth at home as a midfielder, just make interceptions and tackles? That isn't good enough, probably the reason why he doesn't start nowadays.

[–]fakeplasticairbag -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can play him against Norwich so long as it's behind or with midfielders who can both run and control the game.

Stick him behind Modric and Kroos and he'd be great.

However none of our midfielders offer that skill set so he either players in a turgid defensive combo with Carrick or Schweinsteiger or a reckless zero control combo with Fellaini or Herrera

[–]LDN2016 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stick him behind Modric and Kroos and he'd be great.

Madrid would never play him ahead of Casemiro. They're already pretty reluctant about playing someone as average on the ball as Cas and he's miles more technical than Morgan.

[–]lammot 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Liverpool under klopp have been equally poor as Rodgers in the league, just a better cup run.

[–]LDN2016 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Worse than Rodgers, they've dropped from 7th to 8th.

[–]YoungJumpWazza 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah unfortunately you don't hear that, media talks as if Klopp has them on a title surge

[–]LDN2016 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

i've seen fans here fellating klopp as some sort of messiah when his entire tactical system is just old school kick and rush pressing football.

anyone who parks the bus against them rolls them easy. not to mention the stupid number of injuries his system's going to cause.

they're going to end up midtable again, no question.

[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think he's a very good EPL player that can play a big part in a title winning side. He's a cut below the type of player you want starting for a side competing to win the CL. His passing and offensive contribution is too limited (relatively speaking).

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

very good EPL player that can play a big part in a title winning side

In the last 5 years how many title winning starting CMs were worse players than him?

[–]BertrandRusDave -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

offensive contribution is too limited

I think there's and external reason for that. Not the player but rather the system that's being employed

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He was a terrible creator last year as well. He's never been threatening or creative in his entire career.

[–]Allard1994Blind for Ballon d'Or 14ポイント15ポイント  (19子コメント)

Yes. Van Gaal has been pretty weird with his lineups sometimes, but Schneiderlin should play every game in my opinion.

[–]fakeplasticairbag 5ポイント6ポイント  (18子コメント)

Alongside who? Schneiderlin and Carrick doesn't work, it's too defensive and overkill vs 90% of teams who just want to sit back and counter.

So it needs to be with a guy who has some mobility but can also control the game. Herrera, Rooney and Fellaini can't do that.

So Schneiderlin has no one to pair with. Stick Schneiderlin next to Kroos or Fabregas and he'd do fine but we just don't have a player who fits that bill.

As a result it has to be Carrick + another as that creates a much more balanced partnership.

[–]Allard1994Blind for Ballon d'Or 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kroos sucks at defending. Fabrege egg will never play for us.

[–]ManUChao7Memphis -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Kroos would have been ideal as deep lying playmaker replacing Carrick to our last season formation 4-3-3(4-1-4-1). LVG plan for this season was 4-2-3-1 so he needed more a hard working b2b midfielder just like Bastian used to be at Bayern. Well we know that LVG scouted Renato for long time and he is probably done deal.

[–]azogthorinThere's only one Darren Fletcher 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No way Kroos would work in Carrick's place in the 4-3-3 we played last season. He sucks defensively.

[–]mufcirclejerk -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Astute.

[–]mink_manBellion 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

No. He's a squad player level for Utd. 55 million for Herrera & Schneiderlin and they are squad player level. But that's Eddy Woodward for ya.

[–]SonnyisKing 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is pretty much the truth.

Kroos went for £20m and Vidal went for £30m and yet we pay more than that for two good but never world class midfielders and yet people think the people running this club are doing a good job hahaha?

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't even care about overpaying if we buy elite talent.

I'd be happy to cough up 70m for Vidal.

Instead we not only overpay but get average players in return.

The money we spent on Fella, Morgan and Ander could be enough to make a bid for any elite CMs. 85m + 350k wages could get you almost any top CM in the world.

[–]ManUChao7Memphis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well the original plan was for Morgan to play alongside a box to box midfielder in a 4-2-3-1(more like 4-4-2 just like Bayern at 2011). It's not Morgan's fault that LVG bought old Bastian as main b2b option and fucked up with Herrera,Fellaini roles and positions. Also LVG never bought a decent CAM to play with Rooney remember he started pre season with Memphis , then Januzaj and ended up rotating Rooney,Herrera,Fellaini,Mata even Lingard. Right now LVG turned to a 4-1-4-1 formation just like last season but right now Carrick is awful and we even saw yesterday Lingard replacing Fellaini! Our midfield is complete mess this season so it's not that Schneiderlin is shit. Remember people Morgan was one of the most valuable asset to Pochetinos tactics pressing/winning balls that's very close to what Mourinhos tactics also requires.

[–]TheRoonaissance 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No. Keep an eye out on Elneny later, cost a fraction and is just as good if not better.

[–]BadCowzMartial -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aby reason you didn't provide the information as to how much we paid for him?

[–]_Amr_Ed Woodward -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Something with DMs in the premier league that they are unable to retain their form over 2 seasons. Same with Matic this season. Let's see how Kante fares next season. I think Morgan will come good though, behind a world class midfielder.