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[–]Trumpicana 202ポイント203ポイント  (188子コメント)

Knew this was coming and she 100% did. Ive been saying it for years. http://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/birtherism-where-it-all-began-053563

She had people from her campaign release things claiming obama was anti american in the 2008 primaries when she started to lose. Including tribal obama and muslim obama photos. Politico knows.

I was a democrat back than and a Biden guy. The reason hillary didnt get the VP was these attacks. Its why the Clintons and Obamas have never really liked each other.

[–]jakwnd [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Still waiting on that crack team from Hawaii though. Who cares if Hillary started it in the 2008 campaign, that doesnt excuse Trump from lying about it for years after.

[–]conpos [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

they found out stuff you wouldn't believe and i'm going to tell you all of it in my next book!

[–]pensee_idee [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Who cares if Hillary started it in the 2008 campaign

I bet a lot of people would care. I hadn't realized that, and I care. Hillary supporters among the Black community? I bet they care.

Trump wouldn't have been able to lie about it if Hillary hadn't started the rumor in the first place. Every outrage related to that damn birth certificate never would have happened if Hillary hadn't started the rumor in the first place.

Yeah, I bet a lot of people would care to know that.

[–]LA-Thunder_Cunts [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Still pretty funny that he forced him to release the birth certificates.

[–]MikiLove [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

From your article

That theory first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.

So all the article says is that Clinton supporters, which can be anyone who voted for Clinton in 2008, began circulating misinformation. That is a group of literally millions of people. There is no direct connection to the actual Clintons. It's irrational to blame supporters of politician for that action of their supporters unless they encourage those actions themselves. Could Clinton have done more to dispel those accusations? That is a more reasonable question in my mind.

[–]JoyceCarolOatmeal [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

She could have done literally anything to shut it down, but she didn't. She was asked if Obama was Muslim; she said "not as far as I know," but not "no." She painted herself as very Christian in all the Midwest states, in order to contrast herself with the radical Muslim socialist Obama. She made sure to mention terrorists and threats to the country, but never said "Barack Obama is an American citizen and a good person, who I happen to disagree with," which John McCain did. The Republican frontrunner did more to correct that record.

[–]facewand [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

She fucking campaigned for Obama. This isn't going to fly.

[–]WTCMolybdenum4753 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Obama is not a Muslim “as far as I know,” Clinton told Steve Kroft.

[–]facewand [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

What do you think a better answer would be?

[–]therealterry [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How about the sincere and clear answer McCain gave to that question later in the election? That would have been better.

[–]JoyceCarolOatmeal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sure, after she dirty-campaigned all the way to the convention and then made a deal.

[–]MyEvilTwinSkippy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

No, it wasn't "supporters" as in random voters. It was "supporters" as in people close to her campaign. They made sure to do it in a way that it couldn't be definitively tied back to the campaign, but there was no doubt where it started. Phil Berg, a democrat active in the higher levels of PA politics went so far as to sue Obama in federal court to try to block his nomination just before the DNC.

None of that means that Clinton herself or her campaign staff had any knowledge or complicity in the initial birther movement. That said, the campaign itself stoked the fires by sending out the picture of Obama in traditional Kenyan garb. And Clinton fed the flames a little more when she said that there was no evidence that he was a Muslim "as far as I know" on 60 minutes.

It was all a calculated whisper campaign designed to fear monger and hurt Obama's chances. There was also a lot of racist shit going on that year. So she may not have actually started it (and in fact, rumors were started by an Illinois politician in 2004 I believe) but she certainly helped get the birther movement going.

[–]conpos [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

that man when one person of "the others" is doing stuff you can just project that on the whole group, it's the base conservative mindset

[–]Hokuboku [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I mean, we had a Sanders supporter threaten to cut out Rep. Jim McDermott's tongue

I would never in a million years blame Sanders for that. Every politician has crap supporters.

The Politico article also said

But while the identity of the First Birther is lost to the mists of chain email, one of the first to put his name to the theory was Phil Berg, a former Pennsylvania deputy attorney general who had spent the previous years accusing President George W. Bush of complicity in the Sept. 11 attack.

There are people who pushed this far beyond a chain email and that's one of them. Trump was another.

[–]redbeardosanchez [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Pretty much the mainstay of Clinton supporters. Remember the time Bernie "invited himself" to the Vatican because a pro-Hillary reporter found an upset staffer and didn't do basic fact-checking? As if it's even possible.

[–]witchsbrew [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Bill Clinton also said America wasn't ready for a black president.

[–]Jace_the_mind [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And Hillary stayed in the race "in case Obama got assassinated."

Those two are classy as fuck.

[–]potatojoe88 21ポイント22ポイント  (30子コメント)

Some supporters circulated a chain mail according to the politico article. It was never a dem primary issue and Conservatives + Trump are the ones responsible for carrying the story well pass when Obama put his birth certificate online, asking for the long form and so on. All Trump is doing is reminding people how crazy he is.

[–]Trumpicana 27ポイント28ポイント  (25子コメント)

This is how she does shit, plausible deniability. Bernie supporters know this all too well.

[–]NotTheProgurt [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Obama supporters from 2008 who remember how she ran that primary too remember it all to well.

[–]Trumpicana [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Like I said I was a biden guy, but hillary was ruthless in that primary. She also started the "dumb uncle" meme with joe biden

[–]MakesGoodStew [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Joe Biden has had the reputation for much longer than 8 years. He brought it on himself, really, during the 1988 primaries.

[–]blagojevich06 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Oh please. Did she stuff coal in children's Christmas stockings too?

[–]Trumpicana [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

no she just took the people who mined the coals jobs away plunging millions of people into poverty. Funny china at that same time hired a million + miners to take our market share.

Wonder if she received donations from chinese business men around that time for the clinton foundation.

[–]FreshHotTakes [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yup, her complete support of Obama at the convention was very memorable.

[–]potatojoe88 4ポイント5ポイント  (16子コメント)

Oh please. So you can just insinuate anything is her fault without evidence and she is guilty until proven innocent?

[–]caramelboy 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

Her guilt is a series of bad decisions and persistent inconsistency.

She's a crap leader. She didn't even have a position on that gong show we called the Arizona primary.

Trump is gonna destroy her.

Think she's gonna run a campaign on ideas?

Nope. She'll be using the standard GOP technique and run a fear based campaign.

Vote for Hillary because she's less shitty than Trump.

[–]potatojoe88 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

Shes suing AZ... so not sure what you are referring to there.

She will mix ideas and criticism same as any candidate? You think Trump is an ideas candidate? He is far worse when comes to focusing on attacks on his opponent.

[–]caramelboy -3ポイント-2ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm talking about her response within the first 48 hours of the event. She had no comment.

I would expect her to sue now. Somebody else did it first.

[–]potatojoe88 11ポイント12ポイント  (8子コメント)

The DNC, Hillary and Sanders basically all formed the lawsuit together.

Responding immediately isnt her style, she waits for things to be investigated.

[–]caramelboy 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

she waits for others to decide

FTFY

[–]PlumbusBurger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She didn't wait to blame super predators, benghazi, or in Honduras. She didn't wait to blame home owners for the crash. What the Fuck are you talking about?

[–]Murtank [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

didnt she blame benghazi on a youtube video

[–]daringjojo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Clinton 2016: I'm a follower not a leader.

[–]vbar44 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Elect me - I have the courage to stare down Vladamir Putin but I'm too afraid to reveal my transcripts

[–]Reddirator [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Which is looking less and less good to independents after she shit on Bernie supporters in public. She basically called them lazy and stupid. She's got another thing coming.

[–]vbar44 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Trump may be an asshole, but at the end of the day when asked about if Obama was a muslim, Hilary said, "Not as far as I know." What a completely bullshit answer. Bush may have not caused 9/11, but he certainly didn't help it by invading Iraq. This is what it feels like to me. Someone taking advantage of a situation for their own personal benefit (for bush i believe it had to do with his father). For her it was all about perpetuating the doubt as long as possible.

[–]7Architects [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

What are you talking about? Trump was a huge birther and hounded the president about his birth certificate. He even talked about sending a team out to prove that he was Muslim.

[–]vbar44 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The only thing I said about trump in my comment is that he's an asshole. So I agree with everything you're saying. Why don't you respond to the other 95% of my comment?

Edit: Nevermind, I just looked at your comment history. While I respect your support for Hilary, you seem to be very dismissive about anything negative related to her. It's probably why you responded to my comment as if I talked about trump at all. I didn't mention the guy besides calling him an asshole. The whole comment is centered around hilary taking advantage of false claims about obama by being coy or not discrediting them outright. But just like Hilary, when left with no option you either laugh it off or respond to something I didn't say.

[–]AdalineMaj 18ポイント19ポイント  (6子コメント)

There is zero evidence in that link that shows Hilary had anything to do with it.

If you disagree, provide it.

[–]Trumpicana 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

it came from her camp.

[–]AdalineMaj 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why do you believe that? Show me one shred of evidence it came from the Clinton camp.

There has to be a reason you hold this belief and I wanna see it.

edit: Im asking for evidence. Why would people downvote a request like that? Whaqt is happening to this place?

[–]vivling [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

[–]adrianmonk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

doesn't quite believe her

I don't see how you get that out of the article. If they don't believe her, they wouldn't say, "But there’s no evidence the Clinton campaign itself was behind the conspiracy theories."

[–]AdalineMaj 23ポイント24ポイント  (62子コメント)

How in gods name is this being upvoted? Their evidence is the existence of a chain email thats source is unknown.

r politics is losing its mind. How did this place become so evidence void?

[–]Hokuboku [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And if you actually bother to read the Politico article

But while the identity of the First Birther is lost to the mists of chain email, one of the first to put his name to the theory was Phil Berg, a former Pennsylvania deputy attorney general who had spent the previous years accusing President George W. Bush of complicity in the Sept. 11 attack.

[–]isabelatticus [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

One of her former campaign advisors all but admitted it on morning joe a month or two ago. No I don't have the clip. I will post if I find it.

[–]ksherwood11 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm sure you'll search high and low to find something that doesn't exist.

[–]Fenris_uy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How did this place become so evidence void?

[–]redditor4258 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

They are basically floating a theory. The facts are the birther movement was started due to an email of unknown origen being passed around by Clinton soppurters during the primary. Based on that they extrapolate that it was a planned smear by clintion soppurters or the clintion campigan

[–]Broody87 [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

Because Mods are too distracted by hating on Clinton that they have let /r/the_donald supporters, 4chan trolls, FrontStorm posters, completely overtake /r/politics.

Just today in another thread in /r/politics I saw this comment directed at an American Muslim with like 50 upvotes

Maybe when Trump becomes president you'd feel more at home in a Muslim dominated country. I can understandable women having rights and lack of beheadings can be very confusing for you.

[–]AnonymousMailbox [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

Are you literally crying about the mods not getting rid of people who disagree with you?

edit: Reddit has had a pro-left, anti-islam bias for years.

[–]reddituser1158 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

There's a huge difference between disagreeing and posts that are outright deceitful.

[–]AnonymousMailbox [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

True but to generalize Trump-posters as some exclusive deceitful shitposting force isn't exactly accurate. Someone in this very comment chain started swearing at me randomly. I can't imagine the people complaining about Trump-posters will complain about that guy too. This is about partisan politics more than anything.

[–]Broody87 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

as some exclusive deceitful shitposting force

Oh, wow. Have you been to /r/the_donald?

[–]AnonymousMailbox [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We're shitposters but not all of us are deceitful.

[–]conpos [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

can't reason people out of something they didn't reason themselves into so i might as well call you a retard for enabling a flim flam artist

[–]thelizardkin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Reddit is anti religion in general but I agree there are way too many islamaphobs. There are over a billion Muslims in the world if even 1% of them were terrorists there would be thousands of attacks daily. And the largest victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves. Typically it's not western cities they attack, it's poor people in Syria and Iraq

[–]FordF650 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Since people just upvote anything that sounds like it agrees with their views, only reading the title before coming to the comments.

[–]Seanatronic [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

Trumpeters are taking over

[–]A_Beltway_Griper [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

They took over the Conservative homes of Breitbart, Drudge, Conservative Treehouse too.

I felt like a stranger in my own home. At least when debating Dems or Liberals I always felt like it was two adults together. The Trumpsters are appalling in their vitriol and thoughtless mob rage.

[–]jakwnd [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

[–]A_Beltway_Griper [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yea. Those clips might be funny for Tosh.0 fans, but not for serious thinkers. Its not original content and could be assembled by a team of junior high A/V nerds.

Jokes about the "body of Christ"; real classy. Let's see this host joke about Muhammed's beard; yea right.

[–]jakwnd [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

at about 2m there is a clip of Ted trying to talk to a Trump supporter, and he just keeps yelling 'lying Ted'. I tried to get the link to jump to the 2m mark, I like Stewart a lot better than the new guy.

[–]A_Beltway_Griper [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep. They did it on the WWW for the past few months.

I was called every derogatory term possible, and it was from my own side, just for wanting to support my guy. Dem's don't do that to each other, they support their candidate until eliminated, and then rally behind the nominee.

It will be interesting to see though if this time, Sanders supporters can hold their nose and vote Clinton. Bush / Clinton Administrations need to be evicted from Washington DC entirely.

[–]Megazor [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Get used to meme magic or gtfo

[–]A_Beltway_Griper [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Who are you ego maniac? You been appointed Mayor of meme magic? Worry about yourself and not trying to demand people do things to please use anonymously over the www

[–]onioning [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

That's the confusing thing. It seems like both the Trump supporters and Trump haters (i.e., remotely rational people) are taking over. Threads will be full of heavily up voted and down voted comments from either. I don't even know where the circle jerk is anymore.

[–]Ikimasen [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The circle jerk is hating Hillary Clinton. Doesn't matter which direction it comes from, at least not right now.

[–]conpos [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

when the conservatives take over evidence and facts go out of the window

[–]womplord1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you think people just go on the internet and lie?

[–]chicksinpantssuits 16ポイント17ポイント  (57子コメント)

Fact checkers say different. Here. And here.

[–]lovely_sombrero [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The politifact article names 2 articles as sources and both articles support Trump's claim that the Hillary campaign started the birther movement. They make interesting conclusions based off that.

[–]WelcomeToBoshwitz [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No they say Hillary Supporters might have circulated an email.

The first link even says there is no evidence to connect the Clinton campaign to the birther email.

[–]EnrichmentOfficial [スコア非表示]  (33子コメント)

Politifact is a disinfo mill run by the Tampa Bay Times, a paper that's endorsed Hillary.

[–]CheezStik [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Yeah Politifact is only relevant when it's bad for hillary

[–]EnrichmentOfficial [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

It's not relevant ever.

[–]ElMorono [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There was a post a while back that showed PF's bias.

It showed Sanders and Clinton making the exact same statements, and it labeled Clinton as "Mostly True" and Sanders "Mostly false". For the exact same statement.

[–]Explorer21 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Link? I saw it too but forgot to save it and check it myself.

[–]CheezStik [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Just funny you suggest they have a Hillary bias when literally every other day Bernie supporters would front page an article rating Hillary as False

[–]figpetus [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It's almost as if one candidate lies all the time and the other rarely does.

[–]CheezStik [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Actually it's not. It's as if only one side gets reported here.

[–]Outlulz [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But if they're biased then how can you believe them when they say things you agree with?

[–]figpetus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Biased does not mean they're wrong all the time. Sometimes the facts actually back up their calls.

[–]DrDaniels [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

Hillary Clinton supporters started the bother thing but Clinton never even questioned Obama's birth.

[–]NotTheProgurt [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

She's used this six degrees of separation bullshit for years and years.

"Oh I didn't do anything, it was these other people I'm in no way officially related to!"

[–]jewsfortrump [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Bernie Sanders supporters frequently destroy property at Trump rallies in an attempt to shut down free speech. He's not responsible though

[–]thelizardkin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's any supporters of any politician. I'm sure there are plenty of violent trump and hillary supporters as well.

[–]Just_An_Average_j0e [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Bernie has specifically denounced violence as well as disruption. The goon you support has encouraged it.

[–]jewsfortrump [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Proof that Trump is supporting violent protests at Bernie rallies? Oh right there aren't any because he doesn't want to trample on the first amendment.

[–]thelizardkin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Except for the part where it says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof."

[–]Just_An_Average_j0e [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Supported violence, yes. On many many occasions. And to say he doesn't want to trample on the first amendment is hilariously stupid. He's famous for his $5B lawsuit against some journalist that said he wasn't a billionaire. He also said he's going to "open up the libel laws" which is the exact opposite of what you said. He tries so hard to be anti-PC but when anyone says something he doesn't like he either gets very very defensive or says he's going to sue them.

[–]jakwnd [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I know, Trump is literally the guy who is famous for suing people over saying something mean about him.

[–]figpetus [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

How do you know they are Bernie supporters? Were there no Hillary supporters involved?

[–]jewsfortrump [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The fact they hold signs and chant his name are pretty telling

[–]jakwnd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Trump supporters beat the shit out of minorities in the name of free speech, Hes not responsible though,

[–]PlumbusBurger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The fuck are you smoking? She went on TV and said "he's not a Muslim... As far as I know..." She could have ended it, but she didn't. Because she started it.

[–]yellowviper [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

The first link actually only says that there is no evidence to connect the Clinton campaign to birther email. It does point out that the birther conspiracy was popularized by Clinton supporters during the primary.

Given correct the record, its not hard to extrapolate, but even if we don't, this is worse than any berniebro and Clinton hasn't disavowed these people.

[–]OfficialHermanCain [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

its not hard to extrapolate,

So no evidence that Clinton originated it, and Trump was yelling about this for eight years straight... so your conclusion was this is mostly on Clinton.

Got it.

[–]M1rough [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Rather than attack the source,

It is clear that a Clinton supporter started the movement.

It's not clear how a random supporter's words reverberated across the nation.

Obviously there is no proof that Hillary Clinton herself was involved. This is one of her low evidence scandals that only has any traction because of her terrible record and character. If you do not believe she has a terrible record with scandals or an abysmal character, then there is no way you think she could have started the birther movement.

[–]Darkblitz9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The reason hillary didnt get the VP was these attacks.

Yep, she screwed herself out of VP and an absolute sure shot at the presidency for this cycle. That's what happens when you mudsling all the time, eventually people realize you're sitting in the mud yourself.

[–]renaldomoon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Uh, that Politico article doesn't back your claim. This seems the new tactic by Trump supporters. State ridiculous claims and assume no one will read the source and assume they're telling the truth.

There isn't any connection between her campaign and these things though. It was people who were supporters of Clinton and had no connection to her that did these things.

[–]cited [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah he only made her secretary of state, which is arguably a much bigger job than vice president, certainly with more responsibility.

[–]Reddirator [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I thought maybe the Obamas didn't like her because she was the female version of Reagan.

[–]facewand [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I tried to explain this to you. You are incapable of learning. It was the PUMAs, not the campaign. You poor confused naive soul.