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ScienceWhy are men so "gay" nowadays? (self.TheRedPill)

Ibex3D が 投稿

Perhaps this is the wrong place to ask this but I want to get a discussion going on this. If it's in the wrong place, my bad.

Why are so many gay men such faggots today? I don't mean gay. I mean faggots. Let me elaborate.

My god father is gay. He's a great guy. He's nice, funny, enjoyable to talk to. He's just gay. My mom used to work with a guy. Let's call him Jack. Jack was a stereotypical New Yorker. He was big, had an accent, and was assertive. Jack turned out to be a sleeze ball who betrayed my parents on the business sector but it's business. Nothing out of the norm for a businessman. He wasn't a good person like my god father but he was just a guy who was gay. My dad had a friend. Same situation. Normal guy who was just into dudes. Okay, some people are gay. What am I talking about? Let me share some experiences of mine.

Im a college kid. I double major. I have a real major and I do theater for fun(though the people in theater have made me lose my love of it. Now I prefer film). I hold parties. A lot of them. My roommate(also in the department) and I are social people. We invite the people from the department. Naturally there are a lot of gays. Now I have no problem with them. Well at least not for being gay. They are all effeminate. Like crazy effeminate. I'll come back to this.

One day my straight friend and I were going to the gym. We started talking about the gays at my parties. Why do gay people talk with a lisp? Why are their hands always bent and limp? Why do they stand the way they do? Why are they acting the way they act? It's not a side effect of being gay. It's not like sucking dick dislocates your jaw and gives you a lisp. What the fuck is up? That's not even how women speak.

Back to my parties. At one part a gay guy(L) was complaining that he hated another gay guy(A) because, and I quote, "A is trying to be more gay than me."

What the fuck? It's like all of this is a game to them. Why do they act so faggy? I know plenty of (almost always older)gay guys who are just normal people who are gay. What's going on? Is this a social thing? Is it a status thing?

I know it's not really RP stuff but I want to understand this better and this is the only place I know that wont castrate me for mentioning it. Besides, I have a feeling the answers will be linked to the loss of masculinity in man. I just have trouble believing "this is just the way they were born."

Edit: I don't even know if it can be seen but I gave this a "science" flair because off topic was for some reason not an option.

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[–]MindTheFuture 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Mainly ingroup signaling. Part of freshly found identity belonging to a subculture, and they try to belong by mimicking and overdoing it. (Say compare to metal-teens - who is more true metal / punk / goth than the others?) That is what they think being gay is. Until later on become more ok with being themselves. Being overly flamboyant is a common phase that gays go to trough in tweens.

Another thing is that it is a subculture where you're ok for not being manly. If you're grown up aiming to be masculine for sake of belonging, of course letting it go feels freeing and easy. It is easy to be feminine, reactive, catty, vain and unaccounted for. They'll feel that fuck that stoic-manly-man shit - way too much effort and restraint for no reason, because they think that being gay would free a man from the traits that make him attractive. It won't fly long. As they age, they'll learn that to get the best men, they'll have to be physically in damn good shape - men are visual and the field is highly competitive. Gay men are more demanding on looks department than women. They'll find that the masculine virtues will still be considered attractive, as there are plenty of men who prefer manly men.

[–]Endorsed ContributorNeoreactionSafe 19ポイント20ポイント  (10子コメント)

http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2014/2/21/why-we-need-hillary

Jack Donovan is a gay male, but is very masculine.

This is actually a point of severe disappointment within the overall gay community that Feminism is sucking the masculinity out of being a homosexual male.

Ironically some of our strongest male writers are themselves attracted to men.

Feminism prefers trannies.

[–]1Dev_on 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Femenism preferrs them both... until they get older... Then they start to hate them.

Check out some of the posts in the gay subs about how they are treated by women. The gay shopping friend when young, and the paraiah when old

[–]vampyriq 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feminazis love them all, but only as a kind of a PR device. They love to trick them all into believing they're allies, just to position themselves even more as the pro-tolerance and pro-equality movement, and to revalidate as the oppressed minority themselves. For this reason, they're officially joining forces with every minority possible (while, of course, giving no shit about these groups in reality).

[–]GregorSamsa69 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

Feminists hate transsexuals though check this out

I will not call a male “she”; thirty-two years of suffering in this androcentric society, and of surviving, have earned me the title “woman”; one walk down the street by a male transvestite, five minutes of his being hassled (which he may enjoy), and then he dares, he dares to think he understands our pain? No, in our mothers’ names and in our own, we must not call him sister.

fucking cunts.

[–]Redpillthriller 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

jesus. After reading that anyone would think she's from a war torn country and watch her entire family get raped and tortured. But no, she's from a cushy white suburb and some lower class male probably whistled at her a few years ago.

[–]throwwhatthere 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Read this more carefully: the transwoman represents the lowest low of beta male. Someone who is so beaten down by the feminine imperative that he seeks to make himself a woman. Women despise him like they despise all betas, but him even more so. Quite literally he has not a weak frame, but no frame. A gay man is still a man, and his rejection of the feminine imperative is insulting to women. Even the showtunes culture that modern gays adopt is still a strong frame, and one that they set. Women don't control gays, they are instead frequently controlled BY gays. The transwoman is totally and fully subjugated and controlled by women, and that is why they despise him, while all the while preferring his subjugation to the gay man's independence.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]throwwhatthere 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Great perspective! I'm sure this explains many. I still have observed that disgust tends to be the feminine woman's reaction, while the feminist is more hateful than disgusted.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorNeoreactionSafe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If going tranny doesn't get you a good position on the Feminist team then why does anyone even talk with them?

    .

    • You can't be a masculine male homosexual. (too male)

    • You can't be an effeminate male homosexual without undermining the very purpose of being homosexual and attracted to men in the first place.

    • You can't go tranny without getting a negative response because Feminist see it as competition.

    .

    [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's true that these people aren't women, but she acts like she came from some crisis area or something lmao

    [–]cock_pussy_up 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Here's my guess:

    In older generations homosexuality was socially taboo, even illegal. So gay men had no incentive to "act gay". In fact, it would be the opposite. They'd want to act "normal" so they wouldn't be found out.

    But today, gays are basically a protected group in western countries (at least in big cosmopolitan cities). Homosexuality is legal, and gays are socially accepted (at least in big western cities).

    But sexual attraction to the opposite is the basically the default setting of humans. So men with gay preferences are a minority. They have to be able to find each other. Its easy to tell women apart from men, adults from prepubescent children, and cats from dogs. But how can you tell a gay from a straight? There's no physical difference.

    How can you tell what a person is sexually attracted to without going through their porn collection or internet history? How do you know who a person has sex with without hiring a private detective to follow them around? You don't know.

    That's where the "gay" behavior may come in. By acting as flamboyantly as possible, the gays make themselves known to other gays. That means playing up the gay feminine stereotype into maximum overdrive.

    [–]Ibex3D[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Makes sense. So it's like wearing team colors lol

    [–]RunTheJewelsFast 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Even on the TRP, I expected to open the comments and find some sort of PC police.

    It never ceases to refresh me with the true nature of the manosphere. We all know what was meant by saying "gay", but no one got butt-hurt or offended by it.

    [–]Redpillc0re 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I 'd be more concerned about how unballsy straight men are today.

    [–]1Dev_on 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Because now that you don't get beat up in the street for being Gay, people are more open about it.

    Everyone was as gay as they used to be, just a lot less people living lives of quiet desparation.

    If you're referring more to the effeminate parts, I remember askhistorians or asksocialscience had a thread on the gay lisp, and how it develops. That might be more helpful

    [–]Ibex3D[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Actually that sounds reall interesting. Im gonna find it.

    [–][deleted] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Testosterone levels have been in decline over the past 20 years, that has something to do with it

    [–]1Dev_on 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    thats a bit of an outlandish claim, gonna have to put something with it

    [–]1oldredder 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This has nothing to do with the red pill.

    If you want to know why some gay men are more effeminate and/or flaming you need them to tell you the reason.

    Most men here are not gay so we have no idea and never will.

    [–]avian_buddha 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There is a strong undercurrent of ressentiment in the gay community. Masculine men are seen as the more attractive and consequently reject the feminine men. Feminine gay men, their egos bruised, have rejected the superiority of masculine men and framed themselves as morally superior. Now, instead of working to improve themselves and become attractive, the feminine gay men decide that masculine men are evil and that the concordant expression of masculinity should cease. Masculine men are therefore shamed for their behavior, and any expression of femininity encouraged (even though it results in a loss of attractiveness). An example of slave morality infecting the herd, and a predictor of where our society is headed in general.

    [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]larrythetomato 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Hormones denature when cooked, or exposed to a low ph environment.

      [–]PeteMullersKeyboard 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      If you're implying that the water is turning people gay...I think you're on the wrong sub.

      [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I have the same view as you about this, but I have never heard "A is trying to be more gay than me." What if being gay is more competitive than we thought and the more you dramatise the gayer you are perceived to be...

      [–]Ibex3D[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Totally possible. We are here to be alpha? Maybe being flamboyant is the Alpha of the gay community.

      [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Might be. What I don't understand is why they can't still behave like men. I once worked for a successful gay entrepreneur and he didn't come off as eccentric so I was surprised when I met his boyfriend. This made me think that maybe some men are just programed like that, but it still doesn't make any sense why they are.

      [–]avian_buddha 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      It isn't. Masculine men are the alphas and are the ones that gay guys all go for. The feminine gay men actively work to shame masculine gay men for being masculine.

      Examples of shaming:

      "That's not who you really are."

      "You're so repressed!"

      "You're what's wrong with the gay community and why so many gay men feel insecure about themselves."

      "The guys who say they are masculine are the ones who actually are most feminine."

      "You're not even a real gay guy."

      Also add a million references to how masculine men are upholding patriarchy (which I am okay with).

      It's basically shit tests coming from other men. Masculine gay men learn to not care, because we aren't after the fems anyways.

      [–]Ibex3D[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I've never heard those but I could totally see the gay guys from my department saying that. One said something along those lines once to me, that men arent actually masculine and it's societal.

      You say "we." Im assuming that means your gay? Dealing with that from other gay guys most get fucking annoying. "Be who you are. Unless it's not what I like. Then don't be that."

      [–]relationshipdownvote 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I've always thought it might be an indicator of whether or not they are the bottom, or submissive one. Seems like sending that message in their outward appearance would be useful.

      [–]Ibex3D[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Nah, they're all like that. At least in my circle.

      [–]Cum_on_doorknob 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Here's one theory:

      I used to be the shy beta. I'd be in college and I'd see "douche-bags" shouting "WOOO" all the time. I would always feel this visceral hate towards them. Essentially, all these guys are playing a role to get sex; loud, obnoxious, frat archetype. It works. These guys fuck girls.

      Gay guys are doing the same thing. Although instead of showing off their masculinity, they are instead showing off some other trait that other gay men find appealing.

      Now, older gay guys wouldn't do that because there used to be no social value in displaying you homosexuality. I would imagine a discrete partner would be more valuable. But, now of course gays are much more free to be open. And that's a good thing.

      Just like I had to learn to stop hating male sexual strategy and realized that women actual see value in this foolishness, you should learn that gay men simply are doing the same thing. They just want to increase there odds of getting sex. Good for them.

      [–]Ibex3D[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I suppose that's a good possibility. I think it's over the top. I mean I'd hate acting like that just for sex but I guess, over time, it just becomes a part of you.

      [–]Cum_on_doorknob 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yes, and one more thing too: Confirmation bias. You are only going to notice the flamboyant gays because well, they're flamboyant. You aren't really going to notice the more quiet ones.

      [–]Ibex3D[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I was worried about that cause im in a theater department but I know gays from outside. Not noticing the quiet ones? Now, unless they are in the closet, I don't know any quiet young ones lol

      [–]Shadowmat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I know exactly what you mean. I have no problem with gay men, but my favourite gay men are the ones whom you'd never know it unless you asked or they told you.

      I think the issue at hand here, is that with gay culture, these men are using their "gayness" as an identity. They feel that being gay is what defines them as people, so they make these stereotypical gay traits into who they are. The whole of their personality then become WHO THEY ARE. These people are defined by the fact they love dick while having a dick.

      Frankly its absolutely pathetic and disgusting, for the fact that they nothing else to offer people and the world than their gayness. We have gay pride and there are even gay districts in certain cities. If this is how people define themselves, by their sexuality, then what we have is a sorry lot of pathetic and worthless people.

      Their behaviors, manurisms etc... are all forcibly embodied. They have to actually work at emulating these stereotypical traits which no normal human being ever ends up having unless they force themselves to adopt them.

      I use the word fag in a derogatory fashion like most yes, but anyone can be a fag including straight men. At the end of the day, to put it nicely, I am not fond of faggots at all... Because of this stupid shit.

      [–]ForgeAndTemper 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      For redpill type discussion of wider social/political/economic concepts etc, get yourself over to /r/darkenlightenment, I think you'll find it interesting.

      [–]dhump 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I really thought this was going to be a post about how feminine the younger men are these days (how do you fit your balls into those skinny jeans?).

      Still delivered. Very true. Used to work with 2 gay guys. One was a little more effeminate, the other you would swear was straight. Both liked manly men, and hated the faeries.

      [–]anon5489 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Why do straight guys try to act so masculine? Why do they put no inflection in their tone so you have to guess how they are actually feeling in that moment?

      Its all about sexual dynamics and who you are trying to attract and if anything its more complicated in the gay world because there isn't a clear "femmes go with mascs" dynamic like with woman and men. I like this place, its interesting, but straight dynamics and male gender role behavior are fucking BORING a lot of the time. The only reason you all act like masculine alphas is because it getsyou the sex that you want (and its more respected in pop culture) . If all women wanted hairless guys you would all be shaving by next week. Because sex and "love" is the shit.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (13子コメント)

      First point: There's nothing objective "wrong" with being effeminate. I never understood why some men are threatened or disturbed by effeminate males. What is the guy going to do? Physically overpower you and have his way with you? Then I learned the term "latent, closeted, self-hating homosexual." So, mystery solved.

      I would also add that William S. Burroughs believed the effeminate homosexual to be a social construct, but that could be something to do with his own psychodynamics, where he felt some subconscious disgust for his own tendencies and wanted to distance himself from them by projecting an image of hyper-masculine, gun-wielding desperado.

      In any case, people are influenced by media portrayals, and if the media oligarchs want to portray gay men as "effeminate" to brand and stereotype them, so that straight men know to not behave like them, then it will influence gay men to act how they perceive a gay should act based on TV sitcom portrayals. If you're a gay kid, chances are, you are closeted and have no gay role models. It's statistically probable. It's also likely you'll take at least some cues from TV. However, then you have people that just act that way from birth. And then you have people that act that way, but are nurtured another way, and vice versa. So, you have many paths to reaching a particular personality. There is no one explanation. Why this disturbs OP so much is anyone's guess.

      [–]Redpillc0re 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

      There's nothing objective "wrong" with being effeminate

      There can be an aesthetic reason. Generally masculine mannerisms fit very well to the ruggedness of the male body. Of course we can claim it's constructed aesthetics etc etc. but then there is aesthetics from nature, i would laugh if i saw a big black horse walking like a duck. And then there is the exaggeration of feminine mannerisms, which is offputting even when a women does them.

      Not objectively wrong, but objectively ugly.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Yeah, but if you value masculinity, and you yourself are masculine, and all your buddies are masculine, why do you care if some guys are either effeminate or choose to be effeminate? If anything, you have a competitive advantage over them with regard to females.

      Now, I could see that people are considered about having an effeminate son, but ultimately, if the kid wants to be a certain way, or is a certain way, they will move towards that direction through all resistance.

      My larger point is, we are a species consisting of billions of people, the vast majority of whom are biologically heterosexual; trying to micromanage and obsess over outliers and deviance is authoritarian and self-defeating.

      [–]daveofmars 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Because a man who isn't masculine is not a reliable ally in a time of need.

      Your forebrain might not care if a guy acts like a fairy, but your hindbrain sure does.

      Just one of them in your circle might not be cause for alarm, but a whole gaggle is enough to give a masculine man the proper signal that no one has his back.

      Disliking that behavior is not projection. It's a trust thing.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Uh, most people aren't allies in times of need, in my experience. Why single out effeminate men? Why is a masculine man hanging out with a whole gaggle of effeminate men in the first place? I never said they should be your closest associates or allies, I merely said they shouldn't be viewed as inherently bad, and should be left alone. Live and let live; it takes all kinds, etc. That sort of thing. Who do think is designing vast quantities of sexy and stylish outfits for women anyways, or making art. It sure as hell ain't manly men playing football. It was always hilarious to me when football fans would sing along to "We Will Rock You," and "We are the Champions" by Queen, and then starting ripping on gay people in the next breath and calling people faggots.

      [–]daveofmars 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Uh, most people aren't allies in times of need, in my experience.

      But they could be.

      I single out effeminate gay men because I don't respect them for being weak. Live and let live is cool and all, and I'm not going out of my way to stop them, but I wouldn't want to hang out with them.

      I know plenty of gay guys who just shuffle around like the rest of us. Have no problem with that.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      "I single out effeminate gay men because I don't respect them for being weak."

      Why even bother thinking about them?

      Also, it takes strength for them to be effeminate, because being effeminate can get you beat the fuck up, and they know this, yet they choose to behave in a way that feels comfortable and in accord with who they perceive themselves to be.

      There are effeminate guys who try to mask it; they're giving in out of weakness to outside pressures because of fear. It's not so cut dry. Yeah, they may be physically weak, but that doesn't necessarily make them psychologically weak.

      But again, why care about people who have zero impact on your life if you just avoid them because they have nothing to do with your interests?

      [–]daveofmars 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Trust me, so many other things take precedence in my day to day that I don't think about them, nor do I care about them. So it's no skin off my back what they do.

      But when the topic comes up in the abstract I give my two cents.

      As far as their "strength" in choosing to go against the grain, I don't believe it. It's easy to be effeminate when one is an official "oppressed minority", with all the protections it provides. But I'm not touching that can of worms.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well, that has only been the case recently, and that protection stuff goes in and out of style. Anything outside of the norm is dangerous. Also, the government pays lip service to protection, but look at the jail cells filled with so-called protected minorities. The media publicizes individual cases of extreme abuses in the opposite direction, where a minority is given a position they don't deserve and fucks it up, and then people say, "It's not fair that they were given preferential treatment for past abuses," and then they'll also say, "Look at all those people in group X sitting in jail, which is proof that they're all bad." The truth is most likely that the system engineers have a policy of promoting pliable, non-political, like-thinking people to visible positions so they can say, "Look, we have a fair and equitable system, where ANYONE can get ahead." Finally, official protection is incomplete, and abuse can take many, hard to police forms.

      Why main point is that their lifestyle choices are of no concern to people who live completely separate lifestyle choices, and yet these minorities get turned into political footballs, either demonized whipping boys, or exalted victims to be crammed down everyone's throats.

      [–]cock_pussy_up -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      There's nothing objective "wrong" with being effeminate

      Personally, prefer homosexuals who are flaming. That way they can't sneak up on me from behind and I can avoid them.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah, but even if they snuck up behind you, I'm sure you could take them, right?

      [–]niggertron9000 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I never understood why some men are threatened or disturbed by effeminate males.

      Read the Way of Men by Jack Donovan (who is gay btw). Being effeminate is dishonorable (and produces a negative knee jerk reaction in most men) because it disregards and mocks the core values that define masculinity:

      • Strength
      • Courage
      • Mastery
      • Honor

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yeah, but you can't reasonably expect every single fucking guy on the planet to live up to the masculine ideals, whether they are effeminate, or just extremely weak in their masculinity. Statistically, there will be losers who don't measure. Is it really necessary to kick them when they have to live with their inferiority every day of their lives? I don't think so. Is it really necessary to waste time feeling disgust at them? I don't think so.

      I don't know. I had this shit figured out when I was 11 years old. It doesn't seem that complicated to me. There are plenty of "normal" people running around, and there are plenty of "strong" people as well. Also, weaklings can produce highly unique cultural products that would not otherwise exist due to their weakness.

      [–]niggertron9000 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I don't expect every man to live up to those ideals that'd be unrealistic, I don't even feel disgust.

      I can understand however why it triggers the knee-jerk reaction in other men, it's a reflection, fear of their own weakness, fear of submitting to other men, fear of loosing social status.

      [–][deleted] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      People getting offended by you saying gay

      Fuck off to tumblr he isnt used quotations