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A Government-Provided “Basic Income” Would Be a Recipe for Bigger Government and More Dependency (thefederalist.com)

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[–]donteatmysandwich [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Of all the things that disgusts me about Reddit, this push for a basic income is near the top. "Robots are going to take all our jobs and everyone will starve so the government needs to give everyone $30,000 a year minimum!"

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You don't understand, it is different today... AI and robotics will eventually be able to do just about everything better than we can, including intellectual professions. IBM's Watson is already better at cancer diagnosis than real oncologists and is going to be put to work in pharmacies shortly, for example.

I'm a firmware engineer who is contributing to technological unemployment due to my utilization of artificial intelligence. Can I answer any questions for you?

[–]AcutePathogen69 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Well, it is going to come sooner or later. What exactly is your plan when there are no jobs left due to automation?

[–]donteatmysandwich [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

People have been worrying about this for a while. It isn't a new phenomenon.

New fields will open up. I can't say what or when, but we're an ever-evolving society. It isn't the job of the government to give you a salary just for being alive.

[–]FatalTypingAccident [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah the fields of butler and lady's maid are just waiting to explode. Look at Hillary with her maid Human, we can all be just like the aristocracy!

[–]optionhome [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sounds like liberal speak for removing whatever shame is left for those on welfare or "forever" unemployment.

The result would be just more people doing nothing with zero ambition.

And how long would it take before this basic income started increasing year after year.

Poor Johnny spent all his basic income on vodka and cigarettes and now poor Johnny doesn't have enough left for rent.

Any government handout that was not earned (soc security) that becomes a way of life is enslavement. Too bad the useful idiots do not realize that the trade off for a few free bucks binds most of them to the government forever.

Normal people make decisions almost everyday on what is the benefit vs. the cost in money or work. We already know the decision more and more of the country is making. If you're not going to guarantee me $100K a year and make me a CEO why should I work to get educated, and then initially work at some low lever job.

[–]xray606 [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

The people who get behind this crap, are either the ones still living at home in their 40's who are complete failures... or stupid well off white people drowning in guilt, and they think this BS will make them feel better. It amazes me how many people don't understand how little you get for your money, when it is done through the gov. I do work with the DOD, and when you see how the procurement system alone works, you realize how much waste there is. It's systemic. I've seen programs where it took millions of dollars, to do something that somebody literally could have gone to the hardware store and done for 10k. Any money that goes through the government intended for poor people... Maybe 1/3 will get to them, if you're lucky. One of the first speeches I heard Obama make, he said something to the effect... 'I don't understand why we can't have government resources create a lot more of the things we need in the military, instead of using outside contractors'. Wow, really? You don't understand why?

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

I'm a 34 year old firmware engineer, my wife is an industrial psychologist, and we have two young children. Our household income is well above 6-figures. I support a form of UBI that would provide the same benefits as our current welfare program for less tax payer dollars and would allow us to get rid of the minimum wage and would also get rid of the current disincentive to work that our welfare system suffers from. Can I answer any questions for you?

2 downvotes before asking or allowing me to answer any questions: Keep it classy Reddit.

[–]gizayabasu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

As a Republican, I am not a fan of any sort of government-provided aid, but as an engineer, I do see a future where automation is cheaper than human labor. I'd like you to sell me on UBI. My fear is that your average UBI recipient who will not work will get their good 20-30k a year, sure. But what happens when they want more than that and there's no jobs out there for them to earn more money? Will they resort to crime? Or rather, will the temptation of crime increase, coupled with the fact that they have more time and nothing to do? I don't know about most people, but when I'm out of work, I get bored easily. I can see the problem grow even worse when they don't have to do work, and have nothing to do, as well as having not earned the money, do not feel any sort of value associated with it. My fear of UBI is that it will lead to the destruction of society since no one has a stake into anything. In an ideal world, people will not care and just live life carefree, but that won't happen.

[–]DranoshSoCon, FinCon, antistatist, anti"equality" [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

ubi

get rid of the current disincentive to work

You cant pay people money to do absolutely nothing and not have a "disincentive to work"

CAN I ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS?

no

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You cant pay people money to do absolutely nothing and not have a "disincentive to work"

This is clearly wrong, because you can already quit your job and live off welfare. Why don't you?

The disincentive to work that I'm talking about exists due to the hard cut-off between being eligible for welfare benefits and not being eligible. People find themselves in a position where they could take a higher paying job but effectively earn less by crossing that threshold where they no longer qualify for benefits. UBI get's rid of this problem entirely.

no

Then you'll never learn why you're wrong and you'll be a constant hindrance to something that could save all tax payers money while providing the exact same welfare benefits that we already provide.

[–]desmando [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Do you believe that we as a society are prepared to step over somebody as they starve to death on the sidewalk because they have already spent their UBI?

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

So you're saying, unlike most Republicans and Conservatives, that private charities are not sufficient for these cases?

[–]desmando [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Isn't that what the liberals always say?

Aren't there always going to be the edge cases?

Edit: Oh and I notice that you offered to answer questions, then dodged the first question.

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I am not a liberal. I am a registered Republican. So no, I don't believe that. I believe that private charities will prevent this problem... like they already do. There already exists quite a few privately run homeless shelters and health clinics.

[–]desmando [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Good. Then we can get rid of welfare entirely.

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

That's a non-sequitur if ever I've heard one.

You asked me about people dying on the street who receive welfare but spend it unwisely and I said private charities will prevent that problem from being significant.

I did NOT say, or imply, that private charities are going to be able to handle the ever increasing un- and under-employment caused by globalization and technological unemployment. Not by a long shot.

I believe you understood the difference and were being intellectually dishonest. It's obvious that the number of people who receive welfare but STILL put themselves in the position of "dying on the sidewalk" is vastly smaller than the total number of people who receive welfare. If you think private charities can handle 22% of the population being out of work you're insane.

[–]desmando [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I'll accept that. So tell me, what level of UBI do you support? What dollar amount are you thinking?

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

The simplest thing, and easiest way to make my point, is to consider the exact same amount that we give to people already (I understand different people get different amounts for different circumstances, but just take the total expenditures for all welfare programs, subtract administration overhead, and fine-tune the UBI program to pay out that exact amount).

We will consolidate ALL welfare programs, including minimum wage (which is a welfare program) into a single line in the federal tax codes, a simple negative income tax. It will cost nothing to administer, saving taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars on administration costs per year while providing the same relative degree of welfare to those who need it.

I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but for example if we paid out 100 billion annually for all welfare programs and spend an additional 20 billion on overhead to operate those programs we would get rid of all of them, fine-tune the UBI system to pay out exactly 100 billion, and then save the 20 billion that we were spending on administration.

I haven't even gotten to how this fixes the current disincentive to work that our existing welfare programs cause...

[–]xtianthrowaway12345Flaired by Jibrish - SPAM FILTER HATES ME [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I did not dodge your question, I answered it, in the form of a rhetorical question but answered it nonetheless... how do you not realize this?

[–]gizayabasu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm conflicted on this. I understand the inevitability of automation taking over low-skill jobs. What are we to do if unemployment is high just because there isn't enough work out there?

The biggest problem with universal basic income is that no one will be satisfied with it. You get your 20-30k a year, not have any work to do, and you'll get bored. But you can't get a job to get money to make life more fun. So what do you do? Crime. Or even just commit crimes out of boredom. In some ways, it's good to have menial jobs just because it keeps the scum of society busy.

[–]DranoshSoCon, FinCon, antistatist, anti"equality" [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I wonder if the rich will get their basic income as well? After all if it's a basic income everyone deserves then they should get it to. Wait.. what do you mean they wont?oh so you want to force rich people to pay poor people to be lazy assholes?