1
2

Please list technical/fundamental reasons why Blockchain Technology, Ethereum, TheDao are not worth investing in. (self.Buttcoin)

AnythingForSuccess が 投稿

I know you are very critical and realistic, so I want to know the fundamental and technical analysis you use to confirm that Ethereum and TheDao project are NOT good investment opportunities. I want to be sure that I'm not making a mistake here, so I want to know the voices of the critics.

Thanks.

全 42 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Coioco 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

I am a software developer.

  • Blockchains are useless

    • It's basically an incredibly slow and unwieldy database with the worst I/O times and latency of all time. Ten minutes to write to a freakin' database, as with Bitcoin? A minute as with litecoin? Pass. To put this in real world terms, imagine your garage door is hooked up to bitcoin and once an address is paid some small amount it opens. Great, right? So you pull in to your driveway, you pay your garage door and.... nothing happens. You sit there for 10 minutes. Wow, incredible technology there. How did these Captains of Industry pull off such an audacious feat of tech.
    • For the record, MongoDB is a database that is universal mocked and disdained by enterprise software developers because it is slow, and it is around 10,000 times faster than blockchains.
    • It solves zero problems -- as the old saying goes, blockchains are a solution in search of a problem.
    • If the blockchain is immutable (i.e. can't be corrected) it means it is possible for an intern to accidentally destroy the company by programming a bug that sends coins to a blackhole address like bitcoineater
    • If the blockchain is mutable, then why the fuck would you use a blockchain in the first place, the entire point is that it is immutable.

Edit:

  • As for Etherium, the entire thing is just straight up retarded from the start. The primary selling point of Etherium is 'smart contracts' aka we agree that you mow my lawn, and once my lawn is mown, I give you some etherium butts

    • The obvious stupidity here stems from an old CS bit of wisdom: "garbage in, garbage out". That is, a program that received garbage input will invariably produce garbage output. In the case of the lawn mowing example: what data source definitively establishes that my lawn was mown? There must be one for such a 'smart contract' to key on. But any such source is completely unreliable, and therefore the 'smart contract' fails before it even starts.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Great answer, I will research it through. Upvoted.

Speaking of speed of blockchain - I agree. But Ethereum is much faster than Bitcoin/Litecoin.

As for smart contracts, few days ago daohub.org was released. You can check it out and tell me why you think it sucks. I made this thread for this exact reason. To find out more about dao hub from third parties.

[–]TenjouUtena 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Further on Ethereum:

  • Oracle problem as above and at jstoli's links. Who's to say my grass is mown (or that the Cubs won the world series)

  • Binary interpretable logic doesn't always map well to contract positions. (I couldn't mow your grass, but that's because you never locked your dog/kid up and gave me a reasonable opportunity.)

  • Actual contracts aren't implemented in plain language understandable by all parties who need a contract. It's easy for me to make a contract that I say does X but actually does Y. (Also it's entirely possible for contracts to have programming errors.)

[–]ReallyRealRedditUser -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

A blockchain isn't a database. A block is a transactional update to a database, which itself is used to generate the database. No one in their right mind would suggest using the data structure in the same way one would use MongoDB.

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

While technically true, the blockchain/Bitcoin fever is fueled by a great many people who believe that they should be used as glorified and ridiculously redundant databases.

[–]ReallyRealRedditUser 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah. The only real use case for the data structure is the one in which Bitcoin uses it for, where the legitimacy of transactional updates is based on work provided. The Ethereum echo-chamber likes to talk a lot about their amazingly fast blocks, but they seem to forget that without a suitably large proof of work, which is the same for 60 minutes of Bitcoin or 60 minutes of Ethereum, their "faster blocks" are meaningless microupdates that could actually cause them to lose money with a false sense of security.

It's like most of Ethereum... It's stuff masquerading as solutions that generally aren't.

[–]Rycross 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Nah. You're not going to listen.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Why would I not? I asked the question, can you just paste your analysis please? I listen to all sides and then make an informed decision. I prefer fundamental and technical analysis accompanied with mathematical proof.

[–]roidragequit 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Why would I not?

your post history reads like a compulsive gambler adamant about playing the ponies and just looking for someone to validate his horse choice

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ad hominem is not a legitimate discussion technique. Therefore your post has been discarded. My post history has nothing to do with arguments for and against specific cryptocurrencies. Please paste your research and analysis AGAINST betting on these currencies. Thank you.

[–]roidragequit 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

far be it from me to tell you how to invest - feel free to stuff every last dollar into it if you are going to be smug and dismissive of the fact that you seem to always be searching for high risk investments in vehicles of...dubious value

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not smug. Just asked for fundamental and technical analysis against these assets. Some people posted theirs. You didn't. So your post is discarded.

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You do not understand what an ad-hom means. When they call you a gambler they are not attempting to make a persuasive argument. Ad-Hom does not mean insult or slander, it has a very specific meaning.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you have arguments against these entities where one could put their money in (if you don't want to call them "assets")? Or not?

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's your deal here? Are you trying to talk yourself out or justify what you already believe? Persons are suspicious because the latter is vastly more common, especially when no effort is put forth on your end.

[–]JeSuisEuphorique 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Listen here, buddy. If you think buying these tokens now and selling them for fiat profits in the future is a good idea, you could very well be a gambling addict.

Bitcoin is not a company or a stock. It produces no dividends and its marginal value is predominantly using it to do illegal stuff online. Ethereum is nonsense, tech bubble 2.0 sort of crap. It'll be worth something if it's the new darknet currency, but right now it's worth practically nothing.

gambleaware.co.uk

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Ethereum is nonsense, tech bubble 2.0 sort of crap.

Can you just paste your technical and fundamental analysis that confirms it is nonsense? Please.

[–]roidragequit 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Shouldn't the burden of proof fall on those asserting it is a good investment, when there is no reason why

[–]JeSuisEuphorique 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course, but you're dealing with a bitcoiner here.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have read the arguments FOR investing in these assets, now I would like to read arguments AGAINST. This sub is the best place.

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why don't you bring out your best guns first?

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't have any "guns". I'm doing research, I told you.

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to post your FORs.

[–]JeSuisEuphorique 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is my analysis. It's a new age dotcom bubble. Just buzzwords and sparkly non-features.

If it's used as a medium of exchange for criminal activity then it will have a measurable value, but that criminal market share belongs to the all mighty bitcoin today.

[–]apollo888 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's all in the wiki.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Link? No joking, solid analysis only. Otherwise no reason to believe statements.

[–]jstolfi 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

This question was asked here a month ago, and the answers given then still seem to be valid.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, this is what I needed. Obviously, there was not really a way to find that via search and asking was a quicker and better option.

[–]roidragequit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

your best bet would be listing the reasons you think these things are viable investments and letting us dissect them

[–]Silly_Balls 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Okay as an accountant

Your investment strategy is backwards. It's not 'why should I not invest in X'. It's why should I invest in X? To answer that question you first need to decide a few things. Mainly, what's your risk tolerance, what's your preferred return, and what's the best investment to fit your investment strategy.

So if you want a 3% RoR, even if you have an extremely high risk tolerance, you should avoid a speculative instrument. Why would you add unnecessary risk when something much safer will get you the same return?

If let's say you have a high risk tolerance and are seeking returns in excess of 50%, then you are basically gambling. Sometimes you will win and sometimes you will lose. If you want to gamble that's on you, but that's not an "investment".

Now why do I say bitcoins, ethers, doges etc... are bad gambling choices. Because unlike a game of chance, where you can atleast know the odds of winning. Bitcoins et al rely on the Greater Fool theory. You are simply buying now in the hopes that you will be able to sell it to someone in the future later.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your investment strategy is backwards. It's not 'why should I not invest in X'. It's why should I invest in X?

I already researched arguments for investing. Now, I need to research counterarguments. Then I will compare both side by side and decide.

You claim Bitcoin is greater fool theory, but are you also saying it has no use in Dark Markets, therefore has no intrinsic value?

[–]JeanneDOrc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You'd need to post arguments before counterarguments can be returned. Otherwise we just get handwaves and dismissals for anything posted out the gate. It is a waste of time.

[–]ReallyRealRedditUser 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ethereum and The DAO are just big pump and dumps. Investing in The DAO is the same as investing in a government with no country. You have a million people fighting for how money should be spent, so the entire thing will simply devolve into politics and wastefulness. It's beyond comprehension why anyone would put money into it or even believe it could work.

Unlike the software developer above I wouldn't go so far as to say blockchains are useless because all a blockchain is is a linked list with hashes used to provide information about a ledger's global state over time. There's a Wikipedia article that explains as to why that might be interesting to you. It's probably the only reason Bitcoin is worth anything. It's the same technology Ethereum uses except Ethereum is even less scalable because it's full of completely unpruneable arbitrary data inserted by contracts unless the contracts kill themselves with the optional OP_SUICIDE. Ethereum has sold everyone on a useless feature (extra expressive scripting) while failing to address the fundamental weaknesses in the systems architecture. Already Ethereum fees are causing several of its original businesses built on top of the platform to no longer function. Vitalik's answer to scalability problems was to make blockchains run locally and try to meet global magical consistency somehow, which makes not a lot of sense. A fast scalable blockchain data structure would be a big deal, but so far no one has come up with it.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for detailed answer.

[–]EnUnLugarDeLaMancha 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I do not deserve getting free money for no reason, so I'm highly sceptic of any "investment" scheme that promises me to become rich without risk. Be it bitcoin or anything else.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But it does not guarantee free money, it could go down as well. Same goes for SPY or stocks.

[–]NotHyplon 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do your own homework assignment.

[–]AnythingForSuccess[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a convenient answer. If you claim something is bad, post the arguments behind the claim. Otherwise, post discarded.

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Do you have the evidence against these assets? Please paste it here.

    [–]roidragequit 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    there is no evidence that it is anything but speculation.

    investing implies that you are taking a stake in something that creates value

    [–]AnythingForSuccess[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Creating a platform for decentralised application development does not constitute intrinsic value?

    [–]mommathecat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ethereum has zero functioning apps that are not meta or gambling apps.

    You're "investing" in vapourware on top of vapourware.