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[–][deleted] 22ポイント23ポイント * (0子コメント)

I love Reddit and handing out life lesson level commentary on events that neither they nor anyone else knows much about at this time.

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[–][deleted] 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

what frustrates me is that so many of these guys are concerned about possible future legislation concerning gun laws and not the fact that people were shot and killed.

what the fuck, get your priorities straightened out there, rambo.

[–]AlyoshaVfar left gynecologist/gynarchist 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck school shooters, not for what they did, but for the inevitable legislative response.

[–]FredFnordMr. Andry 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the funny thing is, the federal gun laws haven't changed since 1993, have indeed gotten significantly laxer, despite numerous shooting incidents. And yet they go on saying that 'every time something like this happens, the anti-gun nuts force legislation blah blah blah'.

I think they actually believe it. But the amazing amount of self-deception that it requires... especially since most of these people were at most maybe 5 or 6 in 1993, and thus have never seen the gun laws in this country actually get tougher. (Aside from the 'assault weapons ban', which is no more.)

[–][deleted] 21ポイント22ポイント  (38子コメント)

I find US gun culture bizarre as an outsider. There are a shit load of guns in New Zealand but almost no one ever gets shot thanks to tough licensing and restrictions on the types of guns you can own (the majority are rifles used for hunting pests on farms). As soon as you suggest something similar to these guys, it's a shitstorm of fallacies.

[–][deleted] 17ポイント18ポイント  (27子コメント)

It's a bit weird here in California. There's so much hostility to guns that I get dirty looks for talking about going to a shooting range. Guns are cool! They just have a proper place and time, and I'm pretty sure that place is not "on your hip" and that time is not "all the fucking time".

[–]atomicthumbsdownvote brigand 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that place is not "on your hip"

Most people who advocate for being able to carry guns are advocating for concealed carry, not "prance around like a cowboy" carry.

[–]ArecBardwin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

As someone who carries concealed, I do think that open carry should be legal. Just because I think it should be legal doesn't mean I would do it or even advocate it. I personally think it's unwise to advertise you have a weapon. Exhibit A: Open carrier from Virginia robbed and shot with his own weapon.

[–]tenyearoldchild 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would feel pretty unsafe if I would be able to run into normal people visibly carrying a gun on the street! Then again I'd rather know what and where they have their weapon than knowing they MIGHT have one without knowing what or where it is.

I am glad my country doesn't allow civilians to carry guns around.

[–][削除されました]  (23子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 6ポイント7ポイント  (13子コメント)

    There's also very little use for video games, hang gliders and surf boards. They are all fun though, and some are dangerous.

    Don't get me wrong, if I had my way live ammunition would be illegal to own for private parties, and could only be purchased for use on site at hunting grounds and firing ranges.

    [–][削除されました]  (11子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

      If you do, please let me know. I'll buy the movie rights.

      (Point conceeded)

      [–]thelittlekingAsk me about my wieeeeenerrrr 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

      I think you're being generous, unsexmenow. People get killed with knives and pills and toasters in the shower. With swords and boards and nailguns and dogs.

      Many of these are more necessary to your average joe than a gun, but who wants to oversee that fine distinction?

      [–]FredFnordMr. Andry 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

      • Murder victims in the US, in 2010: 12,996

      • Murder victims by firearm in the US in 2010: 8775.

      • Weapon not stated (the majority of these are firearms): 874

      So yes, people do use other things besides firearms to commit murder in the US. But the majority (by a wide margin) of murders in the US are committed with firearms.

      And that doesn't even count the enormous number of people who commit suicide by firearm, because it is easy. (The significant majority of successful suicides are by firearm. It is essentially the only available way of committing suicide on the spur of the moment for a great majority of the US population.)

      [–]thelittlekingAsk me about my wieeeeenerrrr 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Touche, my good man. Touche. Point conceded.

      [–][deleted] 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Oh my god, this is a discussion on guns and people are conceding points to one another and being polite and respectful. I have never in my life seen this topic debated before without both sides full on at one another's throats.

      SRS is seriously the craziest internet place I've ever been to in my entire life. And it's beautiful. o_O

      [–]GenTiradentes 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Deaths by car accident in 2009: 35,900 (WARNING: PDF)

      Deaths by tobacco related illness per year in the US: 440,000

      Deaths attributable to alcohol per year in the US: 76,000

      There are far more things that kill more people per year in the United States than guns.

      [–]grelphytoken straight white cismale 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Therefore we should eliminate gun control laws so guns can catch up? I'm not sure I see your point.

      [–]agnosticnixie -1ポイント0ポイント * (0子コメント)

      I would note that there are also a lot of privately owned guns per capita in most european countries, even those with gun control (most of continental Europe has gun ownership comparable to Canada, mostly because of a history of universal conscription; and grandpa's Lebel may be old but it's still a gun and it will still shoot straight with a caliber that will kill bears; in fact some bolt actions probably have service lives longer than human life :p ). So I'd argue it's very much cultural in that people here conceptualize guns as "for self-defence" the cowboy way. Nobody in Switzerland would pull their service rifle that way, it's just not done, and if some idiot were to do it, he'd probably get a lot of shit from the ministry of defence.

      Also I'd add that most of these crimes tend to involve alienation and poverty; ditto for suicides. Once you break it down state by state, these statistics show a picture that's a bit different than just "lax gun control". In fact it probably maps better with things like state gini.

      [–]BZenMojoಠ_ூ... indeed. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Hang gliders only kill the people on them. (Just pointing out a slight difference.)

      [–]AlyoshaVfar left gynecologist/gynarchist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And because, well, the only ones who really carry guns around are gangs and the police.

      don't forget the military! though I can see why you did, what with how militarized america's police are

      [–]mramypond 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

      /r/SRS is very pro-cop, that's why you're getting downvoted

      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]mramypond 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        No I definitely understand you. I'm just saying if you say anything bad about cops here expect a downvote brigade.

        I understand that on reddit there are tons of MRAs crying about cops because they don't let them leer at girls at the middle school playground and make them pay their child support. But there are a lot of very corrupt police in the US, and the police have a long history of state-sponsored violence against minorities/political dissidents.

        [–]agnosticnixie -1ポイント0ポイント * (4子コメント)

        How can you ignore the fact that, by and large, cops tend to be pretty shitty?.. I know it's not bcnd but still; racial profiling, sex worker rape, violent repression, it's not like there's only "a few" bad apple, it's more like the system is rotten and the few legit peace officers get naively caught up in what is a large armed gang.

        [–]InvaderDJ 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Can you explain this reasoning more, because just off hand I disagree. Simply because, the police are a huge system, if it was a rotten core and not just a few bad apples how would we not have more instances of abuse than we do? For every publicized instance of police brutality or false arrest there are hundreds of cops who pull over drunk drivers, provide directions or break up a domestic dispute who don't get coverage.

        The problem is that the bad apples are still cops which have a huge amount of power to abuse.

        [–]agnosticnixie -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Sure there's probably hundreds of good cops who join the force for good reasons, but police formation is made to basically make cops think as "us vs them" a lot of the time. The system basically ensures that bad cops will have free reign to such an extent that it's a rare good cop that is promoted all the way to captain, and you can forget a good commish. That's how the politicos want it to begin with because bad cops look tough and it's an easy way to play up "tough on crime", even if the crime is littering or jaywalking.

        [–]mramypond -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        ...I said /r/SRS by and large is pro-cop not I am pro-cop.

        [–]agnosticnixie -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The you wasn't aimed at you but more a generic "you" as in srs.

        [–][deleted] 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

        New Zealand, you say? One of my favorite posters here lives in one of the places I most want to visit and explore? :3

        [–][deleted] 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

        I'd recommend a trip to the South Island be on everyone's bucket list. Just remember your Orc repellent.

        [–][deleted] 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

        ... What if I am an orc? <3

        [–][deleted] 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Bring your axe.

        [–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

        AND MY AXE!

        Seriously bring mine too I can hardly pick it up.

        [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Never leaves my side, except when it's time fer swingin'

        [–]seebimullMisandronian attaché 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        One day...

        I'm pretty sure that when Hobbit is released I'll go from thinking that to thinking: "omg, I HAVE to go there right now. Right now, or I'll die QQ" Sorry, NZ, but you'll always be Middle Earth and Xena-land for me.

        [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The problem is that guns are controlled on a local level in the US. Therefore you have scenarios where the crime rates actually go up after firearms are banned (they have been banned in some of the major cities), because it is still very easy to illegally obtain guns as you can just go somewhere where the gun laws are extremely lax to get a gun, and bring it back to the city. What can end up happening is the guns are only taken out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Also, the difference in culture between NZ and the US complicates the comparison as someone else mentioned.

        [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the demographics of NZ have a much bigger effect on gun violence than the nature of your regulations. Apples to oranges if you ask me.

        [–]InvaderDJ -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It is bizarre compared to the rest of the world, I think the difference comes from us being a fairly young country and guns being so pivotal in our history. We had to kick out a super power, "settle the land" (smallpox blankets can't kill all the Indians), and like to think we're very self reliant. We also have a hardon for our Constitution and for the idea of having to fight the government if it gets too powerful and starts going against the will of the people. We've also been responsible for most of the advances in gun and weapon technology for a long time so yes, we love us some guns.

        I am a gun owner and I see what they're saying (that making places gun free zones will only stop people who are already going to follow the law) but I don't necessarily think it's 100% true. It will stop people who aren't determined to commit a crime and stop heat of the moment type incidents from happening. Just like a lock just keeps honest people honest (you think that a dedicated criminal can't kick down your door?)

        [–]Atreides_ZeroAcolyte of Grace Hopper 14ポイント15ポイント * (2子コメント)

        Considering one of the people who has died is a campus cop, what do they think introducing more guns would have done in this situation? From the sounds of it, it was a traffic stop gone wrong, and the gunmen is trying to flee. The second victim was found in a parking lot, which to me sounds like a carjacking.

        Considering the gunmen's attire adding more guns to this mix would only create much more confusion and danger for everyone from the students to the police involved.

        They can force the agenda all the want, but when applied to this real world situation their bullshit is going to fall apart.

        [–][deleted] 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Well to be fair the shooters (in 07 and now) weren't following the law... so it hasn't exactly done a lot of good.

        [–]AlyoshaVfar left gynecologist/gynarchist 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

        gun free zones are worthless and have no point but the immediate response to "shooting at VTech!" shouldn't be "LOL gun free zones!! ;) ;)"

        [–]taschentuch -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

        [–]AlyoshaVfar left gynecologist/gynarchist 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

        maybe if the ATF wasn't requiring dealers to sell guns to people smuggling guns into Mexico this would be less of a problem

        no, seriously, the organization in charge of gun laws in the US purposefully caused thousands of firearms to enter Mexico. they even worked on using this as rationale for reporting certain sales of guns, as if that would have any effect

        [–]GapingVaginaPatrol 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

        heyfella, my favorite poopposter, swings and hits it out of the park!

        now is the perfect time to force your agenda.

        Props for finding something a bit different than normal. We never get many "unsettling" comments that aren't equally bigoted.

        [–]thejoewoodswalking stereotype[S] 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I can't agree more. I'm neither pro- or anti-guns. I'm just pissed that people are trying to swing this their way already. People have died. I have friends at VT. Now is not the time.

        [–][削除されました] * (1子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]thejoewoodswalking stereotype[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Well, the thread over there seems to be moving in a more positive direction, thankfully.

          [–]grelphytoken straight white cismale 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

          I am fairly sure hope that response was a sarcastic rebuttal to the prior, extremely agenda-ed, post. Although having read through that thread, now I'm less sure.

          [–]GapingVaginaPatrol -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

          I know. I was more surprised that heyfella didn't post the top comment, to be honest.

          Maybe I'm being too mean to the guy.

          [–]thelittlekingAsk me about my wieeeeenerrrr 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Bit of a dick? That's gentle, GVP. You should see some of my tags.

          "Hugest of the dickbags."

          "Mouth full of shitwaffles."

          etc etc

          [–]GapingVaginaPatrol -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Those got a laugh out of me. I should be more creative with my tags.

          Teach me, sensei.

          [–]thelittlekingAsk me about my wieeeeenerrrr -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Would that I could. My only suggestion is to channel all your hate into the most ridiculously silly image you can think of that is still angry.

          Like, when I say "Mouth full of shitwaffles" I'm picturing some racist asshole with glittery anime eyes slowly nomming stank Eggos while a raccoon shitting a rainbow flies across the sky behind him.

          [–]ex_ample 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

          How would guns even have helped the situation? He shot police who, obviously were armed.

          [–]rabblerabble2000internet tough guy in training 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Because a lot of the guys who would argue that everyone should be allowed to carry a gun all the time like to think that they are a combination of Rambo and Superman and imagine how heroic they would be in the same situation...It's kind of like how young boys want to be firemen.

          EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like shooting, and I have my own gun, but I don't see a point in carrying one...just never really interested me, as I don't tend to live my life in perpetual fear of shit that very very rarely happens.

          [–]Defiler425 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Actually, if you read the thread you would see quite the opposite, and many even admit that people carrying would of done nothing to prevent what happened today. However, what they advocate is having the means to choose not to be a victim if they were to suddenly find themselves in a confrontation with someone who is armed and homicidal. Very few people suggest going vigilante and "playing rambo", as you like to put it, and often end up getting downvoted for suggesting it. The fundamental reason many people want the right to be able to carry is the idea that protectijg yourself is a personal responsibility, and everyone should have the ability to choose what measures they want to take to protect themselves, and that it should not be legislated away from them. It's about being given the choice. The sentiment right now is that many places do not allow this choice, effectively forcing you to have no choice but to be a victim in the event something like the Virginia Tech incident happens.

          [–]rabblerabble2000internet tough guy in training 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm not saying it's the prevalent attitude, just that there are a significant number of people who do feel that way. The guy posting in this thread is a good example. He's basically written up some fantasy where he shoots the shooter from the second floor of his house and apparently thinks shooting a human sized target at 50M with a handgun is just a matter of point and shoot.

          [–]bobappleyard 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          You really need to train up some more.

          [–]rabblerabble2000internet tough guy in training 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Oh damn, you're right, I completely let my flair down....or maybe I was just giving you an insight into the training I've been receiving.

          [–]bobappleyard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Oooh tips from an insider! I like it.

          [–]atomicthumbsdownvote brigand 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I don't disagree the point of the linked comment, but I also think that this is possibly the worst time and place to try to start a discussion about it. Some people have no sensitivity when it comes to issues they are passionate about.

          [–]BZenMojoಠ_ூ... indeed. 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I don't know. Most policy changes get passed on the heels of significant current events. Probably something about trying to stop another tragedy from happening. Who knows?

          I just think about all of those hurricanes and floods and droughts and the subsequent shouts about climate change that inevitably follow. One would think that after a tragedy is the perfect time to push an agenda.

          I mean, I'm very much pro gun-control, but I'm not blind to the obvious parity.

          [–]dsi1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This is exactly it, strike while the iron is hot.

          [–]mikatagahara 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          "political opinions I disagree with" do not automatically fall into the category of "bigoted, creepy, misogynistic, transphobic, unsettling, racist, homophobic, and/or overtly privileged" posts. Why is this here?

          [–]blueyb 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This is here to prove that this subreddit is a liberal hivemind circlejerk. Dissent and die, young one!

          [–][削除されました]  (57子コメント)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Somehow I imagine some of these people think they would bust out into some sort of Matrix-esque double wielding shootout as they dive in slow motion behind a table. Never stopping to think how much death and confusion would come out of several people having guns and firing them all at once; basically not being able to discern friend or foe for the police who would arrive on the scene.

            [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

            [deleted]

              [–]InvaderDJ 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

              How do you feel about concealed carry laws or prohibitions against handguns in places like D.C. or Chicago? I mostly agree with you that our current laws are fairly strict enough and just need to be enforced, but that is one place where I think the law should be loosened.

              Especially in DC where a 30min drive to Virginia will get you legal handgun that you can just drive right back into DC.

              [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

              [deleted]

                [–]InvaderDJ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I hadn't read up on this case, thanks for the link. Seems like not much has changed though since DC made it hard to get a handgun in DC even despite the ruling.

                [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I don't see the issue here. R/guns has always supported firearm carrying, and they always believed that students would be more secure if they were allowed to keep their means of defense with them at all times.

                [–]Veltanlogical phallacies 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I actually kind of understand the thinking here. High-profile tragedies with guns being used tend to basically always result in attempts at tightening gun control regulations.

                It's not fun to have people try to ban your hobby, especially when the data doesn't support that it would be helpful to do so.

                It's in pretty poor taste to go on about it in this context, though, especially since this particular instance isn't a circumstance where it would have actually helped much.

                [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If only we had more guns to kill people, then we'd be safer!

                [–]DevestatingAttack 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Guns are tools! They are tools to kill other people and animals!

                Guns kill people, but so do cars! Incidentally, cars were also designed specifically to kill people! Also, you can conceal a car and fire a car at a person you don't like very much from very long distances!

                The 2nd Amendment gives people the right to bear arms! It doesn't say which arms should be allowed, so I'm going to take the high road and say that every conceivable arm should be allowed, including explosives, biological agents and nuclear weapons!

                [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                How am I going to fight King George without mutually assured destruction?

                [–]InvaderDJ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Exactly. What happens the next time the King of England starts some shit? Hey, if he don't start nothing, won't be nothing.