jump to content
my subreddits
more »
Want to join? Log in or sign up in seconds.|
[-]
use the following search parameters to narrow your results:
subreddit:subreddit
find submissions in "subreddit"
author:username
find submissions by "username"
site:example.com
find submissions from "example.com"
url:text
search for "text" in url
selftext:text
search for "text" in self post contents
self:yes (or self:no)
include (or exclude) self posts
nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no)
include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW
e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog
this post was submitted on
949 points (97% upvoted)
shortlink:
reset password

raisedbynarcissists

subscribeunsubscribe92,345 readers
522 users here now
Subreddit Spotlight: /r/rbnfitness
Questions? Concerns? Message the Mods!-
Please don't send your posts to modmail. Given the high volume of modmails the mods receive, we aren't able to individually respond to posts sent to us

Click me for RBN Acronyms and Terminology

Helpful links - click!

Click here to suggest resources for other ACoNs

RBN official IRC

This is a support group for people raised by a parent with toxic, self-absorbed or abusive personality traits, which may be exhibited by those who suffer from cluster B personality disorders.
Because narcissists rarely seek care, few of our parents have a formal diagnosis. So in this space, "narcissist" is a term used loosely to refer to a variety of conditions, and is not used in a clinical sense. We are not professionals and cannot diagnose anybody. Please share your stories, your histories, your fears, and your triumphs.

For those struggling with suicidal thoughts and feelings:

If you think you may hurt yourself or others, please call your local emergency services: 911, 999, 112, etc.

What is a narcissist?
Trait lists are here and here. While they are titled traits specific to mothers or fathers, either gender can have traits from either list.

If you suspect you may be a narcissist,

If you know you are a narcissist,
consider posting to /r/selfimprovement or /r/DecidingToBeBetter as narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment in this subreddit.
BEFORE YOU POST OR COMMENT READ THE RULES:
Click here for more detailed information on the rules of this sub, our trigger warnings and our tagging practices.
Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. Exercise empathy. Respect boundaries. No slurs or victim-blaming. Don't downvote. Speak with your upvotes.
Do not derail the posts of others.
Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
Please refrain from posting "uplifting" or "ACoNs are an inspiration to me" threads.
When you comment, assume a context of abuse to all posts.
Flaming will not be tolerated.
Comments and posts that are hurtful or made without a basic understanding of the rules or subject matter discussed here will be removed.
No posts or comments advocating violence, murder or revenge (even in jest).
No posts about N-kids.
No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. Please only post about people you know well personally. Otherwise you can post your stories here.
No linking to personal or public Facebook pages
No direct linking to anywhere on reddit
No pure image posts - Memes, etc., must be contained within a self-post. (Example.).
RBN Network
RBN Allies
created by AFreakingUnicorna community for
No problem. We won't show you that ad again. Why didn't you like it?
Oops! I didn't mean to do this.
discuss this ad on reddit
message the moderators

MODERATORS

948
949
950
submitted by SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar! - stickied post
Last week, there was a post in this subreddit. Please, no one link to it and no one call out the username of the person who posted it. Do not ask me to post or send you a link. It's not happening. The n-mother was in a very vulnerable state of health and the OP had been consciously doing things that could kill the mother. This wasn't self defense from immediate danger. This was an attempt at murder.
This subreddit will not support this.
Unfortunately, none of the mods actually saw this post. We only saw the fall-out from it. We saw posts about it and only one person modmailed about it, but only days or maybe even over a week after the fact. No one reported it. No one reported the multitude of comments under that post supporting this decision. For example a comment that read, "It's probably for the best." I only got to see what happened after someone sent me an archived link to the post. What I saw was alarming and disturbing.
Folks, this is murder. It's not okay.
When someone's life is in immediate danger, then yes, of course, we support self-defense. We all need to defend ourselves from immediate physical harm, if we can. But, that isn't what this post was about. This post was about murder.
If you are planning on doing things that will physically harm or even kill another person, this is a psychiatric emergency. Please call 911 or whatever the emergency number is where you life or get yourself to a hospital. People on the verge of committing these sorts of acts need and deserve professional treatment. Please, get help.
We seem to have a lot of people who also do not understand that we do not support becoming abusive in response to abuse. Becoming abusive is engaging with the abuser, which can seriously harm your mental health. Maybe you start by thinking you will just gaslight your n-parent, but that kind of behavior changes you. Gas lighting becomes a coping technique and it spreads across your life. And, let's not forget that gas lighting your n-parent makes you an abuser, too.
Yes, of course, if your life is in danger and you have to gas light (for example) your abuser so that you don't get beaten or shot or stabbed, then you have to do what you have to do. This is self-defense. What I am talking about as being a problem is waging a campaign of abuse against an abuser. It is far better to get out and get away, if possible, than to become an abuser.
Members of this subreddit, we do routinely remove comments advising posters to steal from their abusers, to gaslight their abusers, to ruin their abusers' careers (unless, of course, the abusers is, say, a child molester and works with children and their career really should be ruined, for example), etc. A lot of people may not know this, because the comments are removed. The mods do almost always leave comments explaining removals, but those are usually not upvoted and sometimes downvoted, so most people don't see them. We have actually banned people who have not listened to the mods and who have continually advised people to physically attack their abusers, steal from them, poison them, etc. We have reported to the admins people who seemed to be in immediate danger of killing or physically harming others.
I do not recommend just being a doormat and absorbing heaps of abuse. Boundaries are important and let's not forget that the best revenge is living a life free from narc control. This may mean moving away and going no contact for some people. It may mean limited contact for other people. It always means boundaries. It means building walls that keeps sanity safe and keeps the narcs at a healthy distance. Creating these boundaries and getting the healthy distance needed can take time and it is certainly easier said than done. I know. I've been there. It is still something we can work towards and it is certainly better than murder or becoming abusers ourselves.
Subscribers: I urge you to please report posts and comments that advocate violence, murder, illegal things, etc. That is not what this subreddit is about.
There are hundreds of commenters here a day. The mods do not read all the comments or posts here. We can't. There aren't enough of us (not for lack of trying to find mods). All of us have very busy lives and we devote a good portion of what little free time we have to managing this group. As much as we'd like to have the time and energy to read every post and comment, it's just not possible. We do not read every post or comment. If you see something rule breaking, REPORT IT. Do not assume a moderator saw it and thought it was okay. Most of the comments in this group are not read by moderators. The mods probably haven't even seen it. REPORT IT.
all 197 comments
[–]ComfyInDotsDoNM GC/SG-NC 418 points419 points420 points  (27 children)
That's really disturbing. Like, really really disturbing. I'm shocked that no one flagged the mods about the post sooner.
[–]Lord_Blathoxi 129 points130 points131 points  (16 children)
The hatred runs deep among our kind.
What we have to remember is to have compassion and understanding, even for our abusers.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying we should excuse their behavior.
But we should understand that their behavior didn't spring up on its own. We are breaking the cycle of abuse that has likely been going on for generations within the family and which led to our own abuse.
So just understand that our abusers were abused, and we're the bigger, better-adjusted people for breaking the cycle.
Revenge is never warranted. Revenge just continues the cycle. It takes a braver person to separate and forgive than it does to seek revenge. Revenge is best served in silence and in removing yourself from your abuser's life.
[–]anonymaus42 65 points66 points67 points  (4 children)
The hatred may run deep but we should aspire to be different from our abusers, not become them.
[–]macarenaPistacio44 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Speaking for myself, I don't hate anybody. I just can't understand how messed up they are, and it makes me angry (very) and very sad. But not hatred.
[–]penguinfeets 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
That's not true of everyone on this forum though. People come on here to brag about how they swore, cursed, or insulted their abusive parents, and they play it as if to say "Look at me! I stood up for myself!"
[–]anonymaus42 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
You are totally right, edited in a word to adjust my comment appropriately.
[–]Lord_Blathoxi 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Agreed
[–]trentaiced 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
I think some people are so fed up they forget. Sometimes I hate my mom and just wanna trash the house and leave, ya know? But I feel bad she's restricted from foods and meds sometimes because they limit so much of what she can do or be treated with. She may be fucking evil but she's human (even though she doesn't always act like it).
[–]exscapegoat 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
I'm with the living well is the best revenge school of thought myself. I don't condone harming others except in self defense.
But we don't HAVE to have compassion and understanding for our abusers. That is optional if we WANT to have it. I had it for my abuser and it kept me tied to an unhealthy situation far longer than I should have. I felt sorry for my mother because she had such a bad childhood herself. I let a lot of things slide because of that. It delayed my healing and my recovery.
Speaking of which, I don't have to have compassion and understanding for someone who is literally still costing me even though I'm NC. I got laid off and the new job's insurance isn't one my therapist takes (he took old insurance). I pay $160 per week for therapy. That's $640 a month. I drive a 13 year old car. If I didn't have to go to therapy, I could afford to get a new car or take more vacations. Over $7,000 of my hard earned money goes to therapy per year. I could be saving some of it in my 401k and spending some of it on other things.
Fortunately, the new insurance covers my psych dr. And meds for anxiety and insomnia. Which I try not to take as much as I can because they are addictive.
But treatment and therapy help me function and keeps me from becoming a monster myself. So it's worth giving up some luxuries.
[–]TheTartanDervishsanity check, over 2 points3 points4 points  (8 children)
I hate to break it to you, but there is no evidence that Nism is genetic - we have many cases here where the family really is okay and surprise! there's a narcissist. So it's not genetic... Otherwise every ACON here would be an N themselves.
Lately there's a few very limited studies that point toward the N making the choice to abuse. While N behavior is taught to ACONS (more like inflicted on ACONS who have to learn and use N behaviour just to survive childhood) this demonstrates that even growing up RBN does not require continuing the cycle. Again, it's a choice... many ACONs here feel absolutely devasted when they learn that, by ignorance of what Ns are and do, they've emulated N behavior... and they choose to do better. Even with the actual brain damage that Ns caused to their children by N abuse - ACONs really are wired differently because of the abuse - we ACONs can overcome this demonstrable. neurophysical disability and not become Ns.
The "pity the Ns because they were victims too" game does not fly around here. Promoting the idea that an ACON should empathize with or forgive their abuser is extremely damaging. Would you expect a rape victim to forgive their rapist because a long time ago the rapist was raped? NO. Having endured rape, the rapist knows exactly the damage they're doing by raping someone, and should be preventing rape not perpetrating rape. Promoting the idea of "oh the poor N had Nparents as well, it's not really their fault" is exactly the same mindfuckery you'll find in the cycle of abuse playbook - the abuser blames everything and everyone but themselves - they place the emotional burden onto the victim and minimize the victim's pain by soliciting empathy, thus further victimizing the victim - they're really only sorry they got caught, and they'll go right back to abusing as soon as they think they can get away with it again.
Some people really enjoy torturing others. They can stop, they just don't want to.
It's a hard truth, and ACONs as rational people seek rational answers - but there aren't any rational answers to be had from irrational people, so the search for reasons/causes is simply neurotic - that's why we say "Nlogic" here, or "Ns gonna N".
[–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
It may be a combination of nature and nurture.
If something is genetic, that would not mean that every child of narcs would be a narc. I have green eyes. Neither of my children have green eyes. See what I'm saying?
I wonder if the predisposition to a personality disorder might be inherited, but the "on switch" to actually get the personality disorder is nurture... at least for some people. Narcs do seem to come out of nowhere sometimes as well.
[–]TylerX5 4 points5 points6 points  (3 children)
Narcissism is more of an expression of mental illnesses as a personality type. If you look at a family's history of Bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and/or autism I'm willing to bet family members with narcissist personalities would appear.
[–][deleted]  (2 children)
[removed]
    [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
    Removed.
    This is turning into a fight.
    [–]Lord_Blathoxi -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
    I've never said it was genetic. I said it was a behavior pattern that is passed down through generations. Like other forms of abuse.
    [–]penguinfeets 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    Yes, I agree with you. It is a behavior pattern passed down from generations, like other forms of abuse. We can break the pattern, and are responsible for doing so, but many people do not. Also not all forms of abuse are narcissistic.
    [–]wlxr 6 points7 points8 points  (9 children)
    As I have said many times before: Narcissists are also having to deal with narcissists. We shouldn't turn them away, we should just not encourage their negative behaviors.
    Edit: Also I've seen posts that suggest a user would like to kill an N if possible, I guessed this was only a matter of time before a post about attempted murder occurred.
    [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 21 points22 points23 points  (8 children)
    We do not allow narcissists to participate in this subreddit because this is a support group for victims of their abuse. Narcissists are unable to disentangle the parts of themselves that have been abused and the parts that are abusers. We absolutely do welcome, however, people who have FLEAs.
    [–]wlxr 19 points20 points21 points  (7 children)
    Yes, and there is no way to tell if someone is a narcissist over your computer, with exceptions to extreme situations. If I'm wrong please elaborate on how you intend on blocking them as calling someone a narcissist on this page is against the rules.
    [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
    We find them when people report their comments or posts. Reporting is absolutely the most valuable tool you as users have to keep our subreddit safe. It is anonymous and you can add your own reason for reporting if you'd like, so you can explain why you feel a post or comment is "off". We don't allow users to call others narcissists here because it is often used as a weapon by people who may come to our sub from elsewhere on Reddit. But if you ever have a concern or a funny feeling about a post or comment, PLEASE report it!
    [–]cooking_questionNmom, GCSis, Nex, Nboss 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
    I would like to make a suggestion. Perhaps we need a general sticky post that says reporting questionable comments is not "creating work" for the mods or bothersome.
    [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Not a bad idea! I will bring this up with the other mods, thanks!
    [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    Yes, but we have people who call themselves narcissists and then come to this sub and abuse everyone they can. Then we have people who say they have a NPD or ASPD diagnosis in their posts.
    Otherwise, we just ban people who cannot deal with boundaries and I am sure a lot of narcs get caught up in that net. If we see someone pushing boundaries all over the group, a mod will set reasonable and clear boundaries with that person and then watch to see how they deal with it. Many of these people simply cannot handle this and attack the boundary as soon as it is set. We cannot know for sure if we are banning narcs when we ban people for this, but I am sure we catch many of them with this practice.
    [–]wlxr 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    No, you catch trolls and shitposters with this practice. In reality at best you would be getting lots of false positives with a few real positives. How are you checking for your false negatives? Say someone is a Narcissist and they post about how much they hate their parents because they are N's because they are twisting the story? I know I've read posts by people who I think "Ok nothing you have said is something an N would do. It sounds like normal parents." Then we see a post about attempted murder. I mean if we encourage an N by telling them that the people they are surrounded by are certainly N's which happens fucking constantly in every post with arm chair psychology then we are supporting N's anyway, potentially creating a dangerous situation for people who aren't N's. Also this doesn't even really answer the question I asked. How do we know who is an N and who isn't through a computer? At best everything you have said is conjecture.
    [–]Dragonhatch -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
    If you don't like the rules, you can make your own sub. I guess it's easier being a critic though.
    [–]wlxr -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
    Its not critisism. Its a legitamate question.
    [–]vroooomyo 140 points141 points142 points  (11 children)
    I'm glad this is here. I didn't see the original post, but the last couple times I've posted about my mom the response has been very aggressive. People calling her a bitch, etc. Believe it or not, that does nothing to help me. I'm here for support, not name calling. When people are hateful in response they just remind me of my mom.
    [–]Peachykeene1031 32 points33 points34 points  (6 children)
    That's terrible. I usually tell people I'm sorry for what they went through. Each of us decide our own path on how to cope wither it be nc, lc, or having firm boundaries with them. Most don't understand it,but I have empathy even for my mother being my mom's emotional care taker as a child I saw her wounded child I know what she been through and am just sad that she is stuck. I hope you meet more supportive people through your journeys and those that angry may be in the beginning of realizing what they hadn't before.
    [–]vroooomyo 20 points21 points22 points  (5 children)
    Thank you! I prefer your type of response. Anger is always secondary; there's an emotion underneath leading to it. For me, it's sadness. Sometimes I'm angry but mostly I'm just sad for my mom and who she is. So when people call her a bitch, it doesn't make me feel any better. I still want my mom to be happy. I just know that I can never make her happy and I'm safer emotionally with little contact. I completely understand still having empathy for an N.
    [–]Peachykeene1031 12 points13 points14 points  (4 children)
    You feel sad because you can't have a good relationship with her. I growing up even dealt with a ngma (her mom) and know my abuse from her was only a mild case compared to what my mom dealt with and what I dealt with was pretty bad. Growing up I felt like my mom and I were sisters both dealing with my ngma abuse together, but she still manipulated me and was very cruel at times. I moved away and when I came back her demands and cruelty wouldn't stop she was acting just like her mom. I have that anger only when she doesn't respect my boundaries, but mostly I feel sad as well. I see other women with their mom's and know her and I will never have that. I had to be my own mom. Most of my friend's are my family. I hope it gets easier, I try to keep myself busy doing something fun when I feel sad, it usually helps.
    [–]trollboogies 4 points5 points6 points  (3 children)
    You saying you felt like sisters and not mother/child makes me think you should look into 'emotional incest'.
    [–]Peachykeene1031 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
    I just skimmed a small article on it as I never heard that particular terminology but saw the other word I am familiar with which is parentification. Yes she made me responsible for her emotionally and crossed those boundaries regularly. The reason I say sisters as it was like we were entrapped together going through abuse by her mom. My parents divorced before I was 2 and she dated just they were all alcoholics and it didn't work out. I do however remember being young and my mom would tuck me into bed with her and tell me about everyone that wronged her until we fell asleep. When I had my son she started planning our lives together taking turns working and buying a house together and got really upset when I told her I didn't want to, that I hope one day to fall in love and get married she told me I will and he can move in with us. I moved a thousand miles away and when I came back she was as mean as her mom and took pleasure in hurting me,she was like her mom in every way.
    [–]trollboogies 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
    Yeah, this sounds very much like emotional incest to me. It's just nice to have a name for something sometimes, and to not feel like you're the only one. Emotional incest showed me that, like yours, parents are not usually telling their 8 year olds about relationship/money/adult issues, this is something that happens in an extremely unhealthy relationship. I'm super glad you got away from her and hope you don't put up with any of that any longer. Just because it happened to her, whether worse or not is irrelevant, it doesn't make it ok for her to do it to you. I know you know, but sometimes it's good to hear. <3
    [–]Peachykeene1031 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    I got out and it's such a huge burden lifted off me not having to hear all her complaints. I still get overwhelmed by others needs and don't cope well when the pressure is on me. I'm getting better about telling people I need to take care of me. I will be 4 years NC in December. My mom was also desperate for relationship with a man she never recognized signs that he might be a sexual predator i.e. grooming a child, showing more interest than he should in a child. It resulted in me being sexually abused by various men from the age of 4-11 . When I moved back she tried to set me up with a man and all the things that I heard about him were big red flags hadn't even met me and was going on about how he was going to make a great dad to my son taking him to games and out for ice cream. I told her no and you better not have him around us. I just want my son to have a happy childhood.
    [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 13 points14 points15 points  (1 child)
    If you see this behavior in the comments under your post, please hit the report button. If you tell us that this behavior is out of bounds for you, we will help you uphold this boundary.
    Some people hear others call their mom a mean word and it is very validating. Some people really don't feel good about this behavior at all. It's fine either way. Just let us know and we'll help you out with that. The boundary that you want is very reasonable and it is just the kind of thing we like to help our posters with.
    [–]vroooomyo 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Thank you. Part of the reason I never bothered reporting was because I recognized that they weren't trying to be hurtful (toward me) and it's their right to respond that way. Sure it wasn't the response I wanted, but how could they know that? I do really appreciate the mod involvement and in the future may include a disclaimer like "hey go easy on the name-calling, it doesn't help."
    [–]SlightlyDented_658 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
    This sub would be so much more helpful if people could call other people on their BS. Every once in a while I see a post that helps, someone says something I lived and it helps to see that I wasn't wrong for being hurt by that. But mostly it's become an over exaggerated echo chamber. I don't post here much anymore because I know everyone will just agree with me and try to take it to another level. I don't need that. I need people to squash it, try to make it smaller. Not join in and amp up my brokenness.
    [–]cooking_questionNmom, GCSis, Nex, Nboss 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    People are in different parts of their recovery. When someone discovers how much of their life has been ruined, the are understandably angry. Once that subsides they begin to see the cycle, some go on to feel compassion for their abusers. I think it is good to remind us to have boundaries, even if "she is a bitch" isn't very helpful. RBN is a giant trigger.
    [–]3185516 173 points174 points175 points  (17 children)
    Now I kind of want to see the post. I'm dead curious.
    But holy shit. As much as I think Narcs deserve revenge and everything they get, abusing them back or killing them isn't right and makes us no better. There's a fine line sometimes between wanting revenge for your childhood and being a psychopath.
    [–]ImANiceGirlAma 51 points52 points53 points  (5 children)
    I can't deny that I have fantasized about punching my NMom, especially after she would do something mean and then smirk in satisfaction; but going no-contact and living a good life while she ages is truly the best revenge.
    [–]JojoHendrix 26 points27 points28 points  (1 child)
    Yeah, there's a huuuge difference between fantasizing about punching her and actually trying to kill her.
    [–]bellapaix 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
    Yep. Good thing too or a whole lot more of us would be in jail!
    [–]exscapegoat 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
    It's ok to think it. I mentally shoved my nmom off a bike in spin class when her voice was criticizing me in my head. Even though I've been NC for almost 7 years, I still hear her critical voice in my head, so I tell it to shut up, it's not invited, etc.
    And when I lived with her, I fantasized about bashing her head into a wall.
    It's actually doing it that's the problem. Aside from the anxiety/PTSD, I'm a pretty peaceful person and I wouldn't act on it.
    One of the reasons I went NC is I would never be able to trust myself as a caregiver for her if she needed one in her elder years. If the irritability or anger got triggered by her I might be tempted to act on it. So best not to engage with her at all, for both our sakes.
    [–][deleted]  (1 child)
    [deleted]
      [–]exscapegoat 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      I empathize. A workplace bully eventually picked the wrong person to play with and ended up in newspapers. She wasn't seriously hurt. I'd be lying if I say I didn't gloat a little about it. And I feel guilty that I gloated. But it means we have a conscience and care about people as human beings.
      [–]wordtoyourmother8DoNF, NC [mod] No PMs please, send modmail instead[M] 63 points64 points65 points  (3 children)
      Just to reiterate what /u/SeaTurtlesCanFly said in the OP - The original post we mention above has been deleted and we ask that no one posts copies, archives or links to the user that wrote it, we don't want a witch hunt.
      I agree that abusing people back isn't a healthy way to go about living our lives. Self-defense is one thing but adopting abusive techniques isn't a healthy approach and will not lead a positive outcome. The best revenge is living a healthy and happy life.
      [–]3185516 46 points47 points48 points  (0 children)
      It's totally fair enough; I'm just a very curious individual.
      And absolutely! If your Nmum starts a physical fight, there's no reason you can't fight back if she won't let you get up and get away, for example. Beating them to near death isn't a good end result, though. Walking away and being independent, showing them you don't need them is a much stronger kick to the guts.
      [–]LauraEvangelineADoNM, Nsibling 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      Did you at least try to report them to the authorities?
      [–]wordtoyourmother8DoNF, NC [mod] No PMs please, send modmail instead[M] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      This was brought up by another user (here's a link), we do report things when we feel someone is in danger (whether they are hurting themself or someone else). The reason we are pushing people to report things is that we don't get to read every post or comment so we don't always know something like this happens until we receive a modmail wondering why we haven't acted. Just to reiterate, we do report things to the admins (that can pass along more detailed info than we can to the police/emergency services) when someone is in danger and will continue to do so, we don't want people's lives in danger.
      [–]preciousjewel128 41 points42 points43 points  (3 children)
      Yup. I have developed a passive aggressive personality disorder. I may plot out horrible things, but in the end i wouldn't do anything.
      [–]Peachykeene1031 32 points33 points34 points  (2 children)
      I think we all have our own evil little thoughts, but in the end why would you want to be like them.?I think that is what divides us from them.
      [–]domin007 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
      Yeah, we all think terrible things once in a while but we need to be self-aware enough to realize the fault in our logic.
      [–]Peachykeene1031 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      I realize it immediately which I don't want to be mean and nasty, that isn't me. I want to be happy and I try to stay away from anyone who acts out in a way that is unfit.
      [–]snarky-NC 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
      I have seen a thread before where OP physically assaulted their abuser (not out of self-defence), it was really very disturbing. Mods were on it, keeping the comments civil - I dread to think what it would have been like without mod involvement. But there were all these upvoted comments by people saying as close as they could get to promoting violence whilst staying within the rules.
      [–][deleted]  (1 child)
      [removed]
        [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
        This comment has been removed for advocating exactly what we are discussing in this post.
        [–]Rainfly_X 36 points37 points38 points  (0 children)
        I think it's a testament to the mods that I normally think of this as one of the friendliest and most supportive online communities I've been exposed to, and that I see this kind of "no seriously, kill her" sentiment really rarely. But this situation is a good example of the limitations of any mod team - if it's not reported, there's no guarantee they'll see it.
        Thanks for keeping this place safe, and promoting boundaries over revenge. I'm personally very revenge-y so the social reinforcement is helpful.*
        *I'm an Ally, not ACON, but have an ACON fiance, and it's hard to hear those stories, and not drive down to her mom's house to scream "what the fuck is wrong with you".
        [–]Squirrel_Bandit 17 points18 points19 points  (2 children)
        Would it perhaps be a good idea to report that one to the police? I didn't see the original post, but it sounds as if somebody's life/health may be in imminent danger from their carer - whoever they are or whatever they may have done, that's terrible. :(
        [–]Mechanical-one 14 points15 points16 points  (1 child)
        Unless they have the persons personal info what could they do?
        And even if the cops find it "Oh I was just talking big because of my abusive childhood"
        And then if the end result got to what they wanted "how can you blame me for a suicide, im hurt too"
        As far as murder tactics go it would be insanely hard to prove this one.
        [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
        Yes. You hit the nail on the head.
        I don't want to get into the details of the post. That stirs up the drama again. But, what was said on the post is basically unprovable.
        We do report things to the admins and suggest they try to contact what ever local police should be involved, when these sorts of things normally happen. I hope in these situations the admins can figure out where the person might live and alert the authorities. I have no idea what they actually do, except that we do report things when we think someone is in danger and the admins thank us for the reports. I have no access to people's names or locations unless they provide them to us, which people on Reddit almost never do.
        Ugh. I really am just not getting into the details of it, but this particular case is easily deniable and basically unprovable. Let's just leave it at that. If it wasn't, we would have told the admins already.
        [–]paprikashi 16 points17 points18 points  (2 children)
        Thank you for all of your hard work, really.
        I do harbor a secret 'wish' that my Nmom would just ...go. She's so miserable, and there's nothing I can do to help her because she's so sick in the head. But I would never, never do anything to actually encourage or cause her to die, and I hope nothing I've ever said has come across as such. I wouldn't put something like that in writing even if I did feel that way, so I'm sure it wasn't me.
        But yeah, thanks to you and the mod team. I couldn't handle your job - but I'm glad you're all here and able to do it.
        [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
        Thank you so much for your kind words.
        I relate to what you are saying. I don't think I'll ever feel completely safe until my n-father dies, but I am also not doing anything to harm him. I have set boundaries and even acquired a restraining order, but I'm not seeking revenge either.
        What we feel is what we feel. I don't think it helps to judge feelings. If we wish our parent was dead, then that is how we feel. Planning to do something to make that wish real is something else entirely and is a huge problem.
        [–]lydsbane 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        I know what you mean.
        My Nmom ended up hospitalized a few years ago, and it occurred to me that I had no idea what her plans were. I didn't know if she wanted to be buried or cremated, or where to even have her funeral. I tend to ignore my emotions in situations like this and just get to the point - of course, that's how I was raised, so that's something she sees as deplorable, even though she's partly to blame.
        I told her, verbatim, that I wasn't trying to be morbid and that I didn't wish for her death, I just wanted to know what to do in the event that it happens. Despite that, she waited until I was gone to ask my GC sister if I was planning to kill her.
        [–]skydragon000 32 points33 points34 points  (13 children)
        The saddest thing about narcs is that we are tempted to become them. The power they have/had over you is alluring because we want revenge over their injustices. But we can't. We have to let it go. Otherwise, the power will corrupt us and before you know it, you are looking in the mirror one day and lament on why your friends and family are going NC on YOU.
        [–]ScouterflyDoNE 5 points6 points7 points  (11 children)
        I have reason to believe I was inches away from permanently becoming a narc in high school. I was on exactly the path you describe in this reply, to the point where people were cutting contact with me because they couldn't deal with my behavior anymore.
        I still can't trust myself not to be that person again. I have nothing but shame and regret for how I was back then, and whenever I find myself getting bitter or jealous like that, it makes me want to die.
        [–]niri0202 2 points3 points4 points  (7 children)
        I just read this comment and wanted to offer my sympathy - if you're in therapy, maybe it's something to bring up there? (If you aren't, maybe consider therapy to help work through those feelings?)
        [–]ScouterflyDoNE 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
        I just saw my counselor today. I have brought up my desire to change for the better (and how I'm working on accomplishing this) on multiple occasions.
        I think what I need to do is learn to forgive myself.
        [–]niri0202 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
        At least you're taking steps in the right direction. And at least you managed to avoid permanently becoming a narc.
        [–]ScouterflyDoNE 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
        I still second-guess that second point, because I have moments where I feel like I'm losing control and reverting back.
        I rarely actually act on these kinds of thoughts, but the very fact that they exist is distressing.
        [–]niri0202 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
        I think they exist in a lot of us. The ability to have those nasty thoughs, realise "Hey, that's seriously not okay" and do something different... that's what makes you different.
        [–]ScouterflyDoNE 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
        I've literally said to those unwanted thoughts, "not today, Satan".
        Additionally, I'm cautious about letting myself believe I'm different from my family, because I'm afraid it's gonna turn into smugly believing I'm somehow superior to everyone. I've fallen into that trap before and it took so much effort to claw back out of that rabbit hole.
        [–]niri0202 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        Probably a good choice there, considering... Time, therapy, and hard work - you'll get to more stable ground, one day.
        [–]Dragonhatch 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        You were a teenager, lots of neurotypical people are selfish at that age. Don't be so hard on yourself.
        [–]skydragon000 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
        I'm no therapist, but it looks like you learned your lesson. However, please forgive yourself and take pride in saving yourself from the narc life. We are all hard on ourselves from the narcs in our lives, why add to the damage? Of course, this is all easier said than done, but the alternative is much worse.
        Here's to breaking the cycle of narcissistic abuse! clinks glass
        [–]ScouterflyDoNE 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        Cheers!
        If there's anything to learn and internalize, it's that bitterness can blacken and consume your life as efficiently as death. It certainly consumed mine.
        I really do need to learn to forgive myself so I can move on and truly be better.
        [–]exscapegoat 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        It could also be fleas. Growing up with a narc as a role model can do that.
        [–]Dr_Mrs_TheM0narchLC-ACoN/Vampire,N-Siblings, SG 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        This is the goal right here
        [–]BlueAmethystMale ACoN 13 points14 points15 points  (2 children)
        Are you looking for a new mod at this time?
        [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 20 points21 points22 points  (1 child)
        We are always looking for new mods. If you'd like to apply, here is the application.
        [–]cooking_questionNmom, GCSis, Nex, Nboss 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        I have been thinking about something that might help this situation.
        It would be a little work, but why not make a call out post asking members who have been here a year and read daily to a roll call? You now have a list of potential mods. You can then title that group as RBN Supporters or mentors or something and task them with doing more reporting because they know what is crossing the line and they read a lot. You could ask them if they are considering being a mod to start reporting more posts and to be more active.
        Easy peasy to find a mod -- someone from the group who reports a lot.
        It would likely get you more candidates. I would fall into this group but don't apply as a mod because I have fleas, have been called out by the mods and my shitty self esteem tells me you wouldn't want me. I am guessing there are others like me.
        This might be a better way to assemble a large group of people to police posts more.
        Just an idea.
        [–]SpiorogACON - Ngma/mom/bro - FLEASDad? 11 points12 points13 points  (1 child)
        We thank the mods for their excellent work. Without you all, this forum would not be the haven of support and validation that it is. I will say this however: the very nature of the abuse discussed on this forum leads to a lot of us doubting that what we see is wrong, simply because of the varied and many things we all went through - so think about this: when something doesn't feel right, ask! Even if you aren't sure, or mods will be!
        [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
        Thank you so much for your kind words.
        [–]Peachykeene1031 34 points35 points36 points  (25 children)
        Wow that's terrible that some are encouraging this. I thought the point was their behavior is so deplorable why would anyone want to be like them? Once you sink to their level it's like a festering sore that just keeps growing until the person you were is no longer there. I'm going on 4 years NC at the end of this year and life is happy. Remember we are responsible for ourselves as adults, my childhood sucked, but I'm making my adult life happy for my family and myself. I can say I've had my own evil thoughts like op mentioned of sabbatoging their career, but I know that's not the person I want to be nor does it benefit me cause it only gives them more time to harass me. I hope those posting this reassess their thoughts because you are talking about becoming your abuser and it won't just stop with them you'll keep going because there will always be someone who slighted you even just a little that you'll feel like teaching them a lesson.
        [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 33 points34 points35 points  (21 children)
        Once you sink to their level it's like a festering sore that just keeps growing until the person you were is no longer there.
        Exactly. I have seen this time and time again. It is so sad to see.
        I've even had to deal with it myself. My parents taught me to be abusive and so it was the only tools I had. The cure was getting a distance from people and situations that bring out the worst in me and lots of honesty, openness and fair play in the rest of my life.
        Unfortunately, you can see what you are describing all over Reddit. There are groups (lets not name them, they don't deserve our traffic) with the philosophy that abusing abusers is the only way to cope. If you look at their members, you see people in which the festering sore is over-taking their lives. They become toxic. Being abusive and toxic become a coping mechanism that overwhelms their lives. Their lives become twisted and they either end up alone or surrounded by other toxics. It's so sad and that is not the kind of dynamic we want to nurture in this group.
        I know that as ACoNs some (if not most?) will have to deal with this problem in some form or another. Many of us were taught that being abusive was the way to live life. Many of us are trying to move away from that way of being. Trying to better ourselves and learn to get rid of the toxic behavior is admirable and I support the folks here who are working on that. I may be further along than the people who just figured out their parents were abusive just yesterday, but I work on this as well. I will probably be fighting the fight to be a better person for the rest of my life. That's fine and that work is welcome here. That work is so important and I think so many people coming together to support that effort is one of the things that makes RBN so wonderful.
        What will not be supported are people who want to continue to be toxic or toxic people asking for advice on how to abuse others.
        [–]Peachykeene1031 13 points14 points15 points  (20 children)
        I agree. The other thing is if you look at your abuser they took the same actions you did and it didn't work for them, they just went on to abuse their children. My mom turned into her mom, I already know my mom went through it and sadly never got out or tried to help herself. At 14 I used to urge my mom to walk away from her mom and tell her that the way her mom is isn't right. She felt obligated to stay. When I was young she was more bpd with n traits. Me moving away for awhile she just lost it and she was just like her mother in every way. I walked away after my husband's car accident I finally realized I don't deserve this. Chains need to be broken and with acting just like them you're linking yourself to them. I find it exhausting to even want to try to keep up with the way they act.
        [–]preciousjewel128 13 points14 points15 points  (0 children)
        As I've said "the cycle ends with me"
        [–]shebow 7 points8 points9 points  (18 children)
        I have become, basically, my family's historian. It's a fascinating family with some deep flaws - but studying our history linked into US history (we've been here since the 1600's) didn't just teach me what people did for a living and why they moved further west, it's also shown me the psychological patterns and the tragedies that changed family dynamics and informed how that generation of children was raised. In short - I understand a lot better now how my mother came to be a narcissist. I'm finding myself grateful now that this group of people saved their correspondences with each other (earliest letter I have is from the Civil War) and passed them on. It has provided me with answers I wouldn't otherwise have. I know most people don't have access to the incredible pile of info I ended up with, but I do think the journey to find out where your DNA came from offers some freedom from that past. Knowledge is power...
        [–]bunnylover726Ndad/emom 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
        Researching family history has helped me make sense of things too. My Ndad is quite obviously on the autism spectrum (I'm diagnosed and it's certainly from him). From talking to our family historian, his oldest sister (who thinks Ndad is crazy and should never have been allowed near children), Ndad was mercilessly bullied by the other neighborhood kids, his brother, his classmates, and his father. His kindergarten teacher realized that the little boy in her class obviously had something wrong with him and recommended a psych eval, but my grandparents swept it under the rug, because of the stigma. After dealing with shit on all sides, that scared little boy grew up to be a (my counselor's best guess) borderline and narcissistic father who permanently damaged three children and who still abuses his wife. (I'm very low contact because screw that- that shit's no longer my problem). NPD + BPD + Autism Spectrum Disorder = inability to hold a job despite being a brilliant engineer with 3 degrees and 2 patents to his name too.
        I read in a book about high functioning autism that untreated HFA can turn into narcissism. Apparently it's not uncommon. Ever hear about the super entitled "neckbeards" who think that they are God's gift to earth, they deserve a hot girl, everyone should worship them for their intelligence, etc.? That's it. That's one manifestation of untreated autism morphed into NPD on top of the autism. It just shows that just because you refuse to acknowledge a diagnosis, or you decide to stick your head in the sand when your child has a problem, doesn't mean that it will magically go away.
        [–]shebow 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
        I've discovered the health history as well - and, yes, mainly because I carry so many of the problems. On my mother's side there seem to be a lot of autoimmune disorders present for at least 3 or 4 generations. We seem to be among the population whose autoimmunes don't just effect our physical health but have contributed to emotional disturbances, mood swings, and other mental impairment like chronic brain fog.
        I have an autistic cousin and so have read up on the disorder a lot. I did not know the connection between HFA (which my cousin is not) and narcissism - I can understand what you're describing. Although this is the first time I've seen the term "neckbeards."
        For me, part of my recovery has been overcoming the shame of how I behaved and how I treated others. Understanding the many ways my brain was twisted into something that did not operate properly was vital to shedding the shame and beginning to forgive myself. Well, that and starting to work with a naturopath 4 years ago and learning how to begin healing my body.
        [–]bunnylover726Ndad/emom 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        Since it's the first you've ever heard of it, the book is called The Complete Guide To Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood. It's pages 26-27.
        Understanding the many ways my brain was twisted into something that did not operate properly was vital to shedding the shame and beginning to forgive myself.
        I hear you loud and clear. We all have a more difficult path to walk in life because of our pasts.
        [–]Peachykeene1031 3 points4 points5 points  (12 children)
        I wish I could do that I only know some family history as far back as my great great grandparents and I'm sure if I could trace it back even further I would be able to see the origins of where it might have started in my family. One thing I think doesn't help is the earlier generations mentality of children should be seen and not heard, I've always wondered if a narcissist couned that phrase.
        [–]shebow 6 points7 points8 points  (5 children)
        It has been fascinating to discover the places where families splintered - usually because a parent died - and the children were left to fend for themselves or to care for the remaining parent. My great, great grandfather left home as a young teenager because his mother remarried a man he couldn't stand after his dad died - he ended up across the Ohio River into Kentucky with cousins who were most likely slave owners. His son (my great grandfather) was plagued with depression, had dreamed of being a newspaper man but failed at 2 attempts and was saddled with providing for a wife and 6 children. My grandmother's father died when she was 2 and my great grandmother had to become the provider at a time when women weren't afforded much freedom to make money. She ended up remarrying to a man who was a bigamist. G Grandma had to be tough as nails...and my grandmother grew up with little positive male influence. And they were all members of a Christian sect that seriously conflated morality with the responsibilities of citizenship - a belief system that left many in my family feeling that we were better people than others who didn't believe and live as we do... I could go on... Instead I'll just reiterate how lucky I am that they left all the evidence behind for me to discover...
        [–]Peachykeene1031 4 points5 points6 points  (4 children)
        Most of my family's history is alcoholism. ... at least it's at the root of a few family members history or past. I'm one of the first generations in my family to not be an alcoholic or married to one. My great great grandfather had to quit school early to care for the family his dad abandoned, he eventually became an alcoholic but his wife never left him. My great grandma married young and had my gma at 21 I always heard stories that she didn't want her and tried to miscarry. Later down the road they divorced and since women in the 40's struggled to date when they were a single mom she shipped my gma off to live with her parents until she met her 3rd husband but I heard she got into a lot of trouble as a teen so they sent her to live with her dad and his abusive wife which is where she gets her narrative from. So she went on to abuse my mom. Then later me. I actually hated Christmas for the longest time because of the fights. I'm sure it is fascinating. I'd like to know more about my family.
        [–]shebow 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
        I don't have fond holiday memories either. But I am very lucky that alcoholism bypassed most of my family - so far out from my nuclear family that I only heard cautionary tales but didn't see the behavior. It's a difficult history you come from and I'm sure you are proud to have chosen a true survivor's pathway. Have you tried searching for your history on Ancestry.com? It might bear some fruit and start you on a journey to discover the other true survivor's in your past.
        [–]Peachykeene1031 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
        No I haven't. Maybe one day I'll look into it. I am proud of my choice. They tried with all their might to get their hooks into my son but I wasn't letting that happen. I'm sad to say my son has seen how bad they made me cry that it makes him angry when they stalk us and I have to tell him don't you worry about your mom, I did what is right for us, and I just want you to enjoy being a kid. I just wish he didn't see me cry like that because I hate that it's even a worry of his and it comes up every time she shows up. When I walked away it was particularly distressing as her stalking behavior was geared at making me feel guilty and trying to express her love to him that I had to move and change my number to protect our family from the emotional stress it caused. She would write on my Windows nana loves you. So he definitely knows something is wrong with her and I decided to go nc to protect us. It gets tricky when they see this.
        [–]shebow 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
        It does sound like you've got your hands full at present. I am probably quite a bit older than you, no kids and plenty of time on my hands to go mucking around in the past.
        [–][deleted]  (4 children)
        [removed]
          [–]Peachykeene1031 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
          I corrected my own spelling so I'm pretty sure I'm not offending myself. I'd never do that to another person.
          [–]wordtoyourmother8DoNF, NC [mod] No PMs please, send modmail instead[M] 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
          Dammit, I'm sorry, it got reported and I didn't notice it was you. I'll remove my comment. My apologies, it's been a hell of a week.
          [–]Peachykeene1031 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
          No worries I only try to correct myself and understand you were trying to protect others from unnecessary criticism. The last place someone needs to be critiqued is a place they are looking for moral support. Perfectionism imo is a another neurosis on it's own.
          [–]exscapegoat 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
          If you haven't already, you may want to check out Bowen's family theory work on genograms.
          There are estrangements all over my mother's side. She also worsened a rift between my dad and his brother. They reconciled because it was my grandmother's dying wish. My uncle and I are both the eldest and did a lot the child raising of respectively my dad and my brother (both youngest). I don't know if my ex-SIL worsened the rift or not. We had a total of 2 arguments as adults and managed to work things out. But not the last one, which was shortly after he got married.
          [–]shebow 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
          Interesting. Thanks for the tip! Our estrangements were more hidden from me until I understood the narcissism in the family. I've only recently begun to discover how much separation there was between members of my grandfather's generation based on political affiliations. Yep, a liberal marrying a conservative was considered to be a "mixed marriage" in my clan. My sister and I are both very liberal. A few years ago, I was dating a Libertarian and my sister made an I'm-looking-down-my-nose-at-you comment that she would never be able to date a conservative - and so the divide continues...
          [–][deleted]  (2 children)
          [removed]
            [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
            Doing things in an attempt to kill someone (not in self defense) is a psychiatric emergency. That is just what it is.
            I'm not saying the person experiencing this doesn't deserve compassion. They do. But, it is an emergency and needs to be treated as such.
            [–]Akseba 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
            I agree. I wouldn't leave the situation unaddressed and I appreciate the importance of your post.
            [–]corathus59 34 points35 points36 points  (12 children)
            Most of our narcissistic tormentors slipped into their own self corruption through gas lighting their narcissistic tormentors. Like all of us raised in such homes, they came to a decision point where they had to choose to identify with the "strong" abuser, or the "weak" victim. If you choose "strength" in these terms, you become what destroyed you. If you choose the latter you stand a chance of making it through, and rebuilding once you escape.
            Those who plot violence against their abusers have become narcissistic, or worse, themselves. If they can see it vividly enough to express what they are doing, and try and justify it, they have enough awareness to turn aside from the evil.
            [–]domin007 23 points24 points25 points  (10 children)
            I'd hate to say this because this is a place for support, but there is also the very real possibility that there are children raised by narcissists that become narcissists as well. Part of it is due to cognitive-behavioral influences such as the gas lighting being discussed. Part of it is biological. In no means am I saying that we should deny a person support, but we need to bring awareness to the thought patterns that breed narcissism.
            [–]shebow 13 points14 points15 points  (9 children)
            People here refer to the narc tendencies as FLEAS. I've always thought of it as a coat I wore of someone else's personality. We have very little choice but to become like our parents - it's the primary role modeling we receive as children. The very difficult job we're left with as adults is to find a healthier way. There is a powerful temptation to mess with our abusers. They lacked the maturity to not follow that path (my own mother cast me as her sister and my sis as herself in order to exact revenge - or to balance the scales as she used to tell us) - unless we want to fall down that same self-absorbed rabbit hole, we have to employ the old saw that "the best revenge is living well."
            [–]snarky-NC 4 points5 points6 points  (8 children)
            I think people should be more aware of the differences in those who are picking a few FLEAS off themselves, and those who have narcissistic tendencies as parts of their personalities - Whilst I by no means want anyone to be called a suspected narcissist, unfortunately there will be people here to feed their Nsupply.
            [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 8 points9 points10 points  (7 children)
            I think this is one of the problems with this subreddit's success. Back when we had 300 members or even just 1,000, it was easier to keep and eye on people and easier to spot the people who might have more than just fleas.
            In a group with 92K members, it gets much more difficult. We are no longer a small community where most of us know each other and we now attract trolls and toxics in ways that small groups just don't. Moderating a group this large also becomes very complicated.
            There are some things that we can do to weed out many narcs. We do watch for people who just cannot handle boundaries. Sometimes we will set a very simple and reasonable boundary with someone just to see if they can take it. If they explode over it, we know we are dealing with someone who may have more than just fleas. When we don't ban those people outright, we keep a very, very close eye on them.
            Of course, there are also types of narcs that we still don't have great ways of dealing with. We're always learning and the game is always changing as we get more and more subscribers. It's a challenge, for sure.
            [–]snarky-NC 8 points9 points10 points  (6 children)
            One thing I can say (and with full honesty, not just trying to kiss anyone's arses) is that the mod team here is excellent. It's actually quite surprising - it's often the positions of power that toxic people accumulate, due to the desire to control. A couple of times I've seen the community slip out of the realms of "ok", I've realised quite how much work you do to keep the place going.
            I'm both interested and glad to hear that you take an active approach :) . I would ask for detail and examples out of curiosity, but that's probably getting into the zone of Classified Information.
            But I do wish the community itself were more aware - I keep seeing traits that bother me. Blind reassurance that it's "just FLEAS", without asking about what the situation. FLEAS becoming a cover or excuse for one's own wrongdoing. A certain entitlement that anything you do to your abuser is justified.
            [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 3 points4 points5 points  (5 children)
            Thank you for the votes of confidence.
            The community has ups and downs for sure. Right after we have been linked in a post that hits the front page, we have a couple of hard days or even weeks. And, sometimes the nature of the group will change significantly enough that the team needs time to regroup and figure out how to deal. Sometimes we trip all over ourselves before we figure out what works. It can be awkward, but we keep trying and we try to do our work in good faith. Hopefully that is enough to keep this group going.
            In regards to fleas, I hear you. The context of abuse rule is brilliant (not my invention), but it is also has some major downsides. It makes it harder to deal with people that the mods suspect don't just have fleas. It ties our hands. But, the benefit it brings to the group (we feel at this time) is worth the trouble. People who are not ready to tell their whole story don't have to. People who are too triggered to communicate clearly aren't jeered out of the group. People can tell slice of life stories (ie: "N-mom called me fat...") without having to tell their entire life story to defend the existence of their post in this group.
            I think that most people here really do have fleas and that we work with them on those terms that it will be most helpful to them.
            The people who seem like they are never going to change or who are here for the wrong reasons, we watch. If you see someone like this, report it. The mods will take a look. Sometimes we will keep an eye on a person like that to see exactly what their deal is and we will also watch them closely for attacking the boundaries of this group.
            It isn't easy to balance all of these concerns and there are definitely trade-offs that we are very aware of. I am the top mod here and even I get frustrated with the rules sometimes.
            [–]snarky-NC 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
            Aye. I would not want the context of abuse rule to be undermined, and this to become a space where you pour your heart out, only to hear "fake!", "are you an N", "pfft, doesn't sound so bad".
            I just would like to see a bit of an attitude shift - particularly on whether it's justified to abuse an abuser. I was dismayed at one thread containing this, not due to the OP, but due to the overall picture in the comments.
            I think that's something that needs to come from the community, but hopefully people will be a bit more aware after seeing this PSA stickied.
            [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
            Hit the report button when you see comments about abusing abusers. We remove that stuff and we do not want a sub-culture to develop here of angry people that discuss becoming abusive themselves. In a group like this with rightfully angry and traumatized people, we are particularly at risk for such a group springing up. That is why the mods come down so hard on this particular problem.
            The mods removing those comments makes the people who think it is not okay to become abusive feel more secure and feel more confident to stand for their beliefs in this group. While the mods cannot control everything here, the posts/comments we prune and the ideas we challenge does absolutely make a difference. When people realize that those ideas aren't welcome here, they will either convert here or move to some other group that worries less about ethics.
            When we aren't made aware of these comments, instead the people who advocate for abusiveness feel more confident to push their ideas here and that is not what we want.
            [–]snarky-NC 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
            Mods were already there, but even with mod presence (stickied mod note, removed comments) people were toeing the line as close as they could get :(
            [–]WorstHorseFlea-bitten nag. 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
            It also strikes me that aside from the size of the forum, it must be very difficult to moderate because of the very broad age range and range of life experience of the members, both during and after FOO, where they are in their--for lack of a better word--processing, and what of themselves they want to offer (e.g. I doubt I'll ever want to offer a full life story, and both my parents are dead so there's never anything new on that score).
            tl;dr my hat's off to you mods.
            [–]Heautontimoroumenos(ACoN, Nmother + Efather) 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
            In regards to fleas, I hear you. The context of abuse rule is brilliant (not my invention), but it is also has some major downsides. It makes it harder to deal with people that the mods suspect don't just have fleas. It ties our hands. But, the benefit it brings to the group (we feel at this time) is worth the trouble. People who are not ready to tell their whole story don't have to. People who are too triggered to communicate clearly aren't jeered out of the group. People can tell slice of life stories (ie: "N-mom called me fat...") without having to tell their entire life story to defend the existence of their post in this group.
            There's certain spaces that are... let's say, strongly into social justice but rather overzealous and not particularly good at understanding nuance or context, where it's basically required to disclose your whole abuse history to be taken seriously, and if you refuse to it's taken as proof you're just lying.
            But one could easily fabricate a history of abuse. There's nothing but basic decency that would be stopping someone, especially someone who feeds off attention, to lie about how terribly they've been hurt.
            And since someone lying won't get triggered by being reminded of it or forced to reveal that over and over, since it's not something that actually happened to them, and being told they are liars won't hurt them as much as it would hurt someone who already has self doubts and feels bad about the abuse.
            So what ends up happening is that people who actually were victimized are more scared to be honest than people who just want to be patted in the back and told they're so brave and amazing for surviving what they went through. Especially if someone who is actually a victim doesn't 'act like a victim should'.
            Moral of the story: if the context of abuse rule was removed it wouldn't do much to weed out narcs and keep the space safe for abuse victims, in fact it'd likely do the opposite.
            [–]smacksaw 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
            Abuse is a cycle that people either break or succumb to.
            [–]EarthAngel007 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
            Damn.
            I didn't see that one.
            What is wrong with people? It makes you wonder who the Ns are.
            [–]Fourlucky88 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
            Hey mods, thank you very much for taking a public and clear message about this. I'm glad to see this is not ambiguous.
            We appreciate the work you do!
            [–]Ya_Whatever 7 points8 points9 points  (4 children)
            Wow. I never saw that post but will report any like it in the future.
            [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
            Thank you so much.
            [–]WorstHorseFlea-bitten nag. 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
            I'm wondering now if this was a long post that had a small technical point that I responded to without looking closely at the larger picture that seemed a little overwhelming to me. If so, I am sorry (not going into any identifying details, not asking for confirmation).
            [–][deleted]  (1 child)
            [deleted]
              [–]SucrePON3 7 points8 points9 points  (13 children)
              Sorry, I'm a bit new here, can someone explain what gaslighting is?
              [–]crowoath 13 points14 points15 points  (10 children)
              When you remind someone of something they did and they say, "I didn't do that," with the intention of rewriting history so that they seem blameless and perfect. It's about manipulating other people into thinking they have faulty memories so they can maintain a pristine image.
              [–]SucrePON3 3 points4 points5 points  (9 children)
              I'm confused. Is it to make them sound crazy? Like, saying/reminding them about something that they never did?
              [–]redscarinthesky 6 points7 points8 points  (6 children)
              A person who is a victim of gaslighting accurately remembers a past abusive event, but the abuser denies it happened in an attempt to rewrite the narrative. The gaslighter is not concerned with how crazy they sound nor how crazy their victim feels. They only care about preserving their infallibility.
              [–]clairebones 17 points18 points19 points  (2 children)
              The gaslighter is not concerned with how crazy they sound nor how crazy their victim feels.
              This is absolutely not accurate. The definition of gaslighting, and the very specific play from which the term was coined, was purely about making the victim feel 'crazy'. It's very specifically about making someone feel unsure of their own memories and their own mental stability, so that the abuser can take advantage of this and manipulate them and get away with things they otherwise wouldn't.
              There are of course people who do what you're talking about, but the term 'gaslighting' particularly refers to making a victim doubt themselves.
              [–]ohmyerica 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
              The worst (for me) is being gaslighted when you have mental problems. It's so much easier to make me seem crazy when I've had breakdowns, etc. :(
              [–]redscarinthesky 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
              Yes, sorry for poor choice of wording. I meant the gaslighter is unsympathetic toward the victim.
              [–]MalzxTheTerrible 13 points14 points15 points  (2 children)
              I always think about The Ministry of Truth, from 1984.
              "We've always been at war with Eastasia."
              [–]lydsbane 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
              I'm to the point where I think I should just get a tattoo: 'That never happened.' I have at least five relatives that do this. It's frustrating to me because I've never believed any of their efforts, so it's just a bunch of sad people who keep trying to convince the outside world that they're perfect.
              [–]Oportos 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
              That never happened. Ahaha. I haven't been to this place in months, I'm in an okay state right now, but fuck if that didn't make me almost throw my phone into the wall.
              [–]snarky-NC 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
              When done over time, you believe the gaslighter's overall narrative - it can become a large and complex manipulation tactic that controls a person's worldview.
              [The below is an illustration, not the definition]
              They've got a lie and a twist on every memory of what they've done, and lay the blame elsewhere. Maybe on you for being in such a state at the time that you began the events, then accused them of something they didn't do! Now you apologise, and feel guilty.
              Over and over, until you fully internalise this: they are doing their best, but you are so difficult; they don't really like you, but struggle on out of duty.
              Then they break your things, or scream at you, or hit you, and you ask yourself what you did wrong. You try harder. When they get worse, you instead think that you got worse. You're a monster.
              Once you've internalised the narrative, it's very easy for them to manipulate you. If you already think the above, you can be convinced that nobody else would be able to cope with you, they'd just mistreat you terribly. Or that you are indebted to them. And so on.
              [–]cooking_questionNmom, GCSis, Nex, Nboss 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
              My own personal definition is that my Narc will deny reality to the extent of making me FEEL crazy in order to avoid acknowledging something which challenges her Narc order of things.
              My examples include telling me my childhood was happy, that I "remember things wrong", that events were never as bad as they seemed for me, that things were much worse than they were for her, etc. She will stick to her rewritten narrative in light of solid proof to the contrary.
              It isn't necessarily to make me doubt my reality (narcs don't give a shit about your reality) it is more to prop up her lie she is telling herself.
              [–]arcticfoxtrotternot my circus, not my monkeys 7 points8 points9 points  (4 children)
              Right on.
              Can I just say what an amazing job the mod team does here.
              [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
              Thank you so much!
              [–]arcticfoxtrotternot my circus, not my monkeys 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
              I just sent a mini-mod app but I don't think I'm actually eligible as I've not been around for a year yet.
              [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
              Sweet! Thanks!
              We'll take a look. We have quite a process and more than one mod goes through it to check applicants, so it can take weeks to hear anything back. Just FYI.
              [–]arcticfoxtrotternot my circus, not my monkeys 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
              Thanks for the heads up!
              [–]Domer2012 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
              This is a bit of a related tangent, but yesterday there was an /r/askwomen thread in which a woman had her ass slapped by a teenager riding on a bike and wanted to know how to best respond in that kind of situation. Many of the responses were people recommending shoving them off their bike or even saying they had done exactly that in that past. When I pointed out that injuring someone and potentially giving them a TBI was not a measured or reasonable response to being humiliated, my comment was not just ignored, but deleted by the mods for being "invalidating."
              Thank you, guys, for not taking that type of stance. Many of the people in this sub have suffered years of abuse and have some very legitimate reasons for hating their parents, and their feelings ought to be validated, but I appreciate that you are willing to stand up against the idea that emotional validation includes validating unprovoked and unreasonable violence. That shit's messed up.
              [–]Palaminone 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
              I'm glad you posted this. I used to pop into /r/AskWomen every once in a while, but always left confused or disgusted. A lot of the posters were either just plain assholes or super enabling and would post "emotionally validating" bs like you described. And when there would be any sort of discussion, it devolved into a stupid argument. Nobody actually discussed anything, they just argued. What is even the point of that?
              [–]Domer2012 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
              Yeah I've heard complaints about the sub but never really noticed it firsthand. Needless to say, I was a bit shocked at that thread's whole "yeah shove that kid off his fucking bike! That'll show him for embarrassing you!" mentality and the mods' weirdly vehement defense of it. Bunch of rabid people who think emotions justify anything. Definitely unsubbed.
              [–]Palaminone 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
              I've noticed that kind of mentality in a lot of the "main" subs, whether it's TwoX, MUA, Politics, Food. I've started going to the smaller communities for stuff like makeup or food/recipes. The posters tend to be much nicer and more level headed.
              [–]righteousrobot 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
              I never imagined I'd see something like the post described here on this subreddit. That's some dark shit. Please get help, whoever wrote that post. Don't become the people who abused you or worse.
              If mods are needed, I don't have a lot of time on reddit anymore but I'd be willing to help out a few days a week.
              [–]Eshido 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
              I hope it was deleted then?
              [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
              The OP deleted it. Had it been reported to the mods before rather OP deleted it. We would have locked the post and posted a sticky comment under the post urging the OP to get professional mental help.
              This would have prevented comments supporting murder. If not, the comments supporting murder would have been removed and those commenters warned.
              [–]Eshido 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
              Ah. Hopefully someone will report something like this next time.
              [–]blerrycat 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
              Good point. Sometimes I think of harming my n-mom. It's a visceral response to constantly being hurt emotionally and sometimes physically. But you shouldn't fight fire with fire, it just adds to the problem.
              [–]colmatterson 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
              But you shouldn't fight fire with fire, it just adds to the problem.
              My house is burning! Ahh! Stupid fire! I should lit it on fire and see how it likes it! That'll show that fire!
              [–]CheeseBlaster4 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
              The most annoying part about this sub is when a person wants to somehow punish their Nparents, and 90% of the comments encourage them, and then comments urging the OP to be reasonable and think things through get downvoted. It happens too frequently.
              There are a lot of angry people here, and in many cases I think the advice commenters give is actually harmful, or at least unhelpful.
              This sub isn't about "Us vs Ns" - it's about us healing from our Ns, and finding support. Telling another ACoN "yeah, you should totally break NC to send your Nmom that nasty letter!" isn't helping anyone, and is only inciting anger rather than promoting healing.
              [–]penguinfeets 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
              I have seen posts on this forum before where OP's bragged about "standing up to their parents" but it sounds more like they attacked them verbally. Like people will come on here to gloat about how they "were assertive" and "stood up for themselves" but sometimes the posts are either clearly or border on abusive behavior themselves.
              [–]name_dropped 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
              Beautifully said and can't be repeated enough:
              Becoming abusive is engaging with the abuser, which can seriously harm your mental health. Maybe you start by thinking you will just gaslight your n-parent, but that kind of behavior changes you. Gas lighting becomes a coping technique and it spreads across your life. And, let's not forget that gas lighting your n-parent makes you an abuser, too.
              This is a true hell. It ensures you will never be free. It destroys those precious parts of you that you so painfully tried to protect from the Ns to begin with.
              [–]Kittenismybaby 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
              Wow, I am always reading the posts on here and yet I missed the post OP is talking about. I'm very surprised that anybody in here would even advocate murder and not report the post since I've only ever seen positive interaction in this sub. Either way, thank you to the mods for being on the ball!
              [–]chapterpt 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
              I think we should all take a moment to remember we are here because we were raised by narcissists. We've been victimized but we must remain hyper vigilant that we do not in turn start manifesting narcissistic behaviours. Encouraging the death of anyone - even an enemy - slams of narcissism in my opinion. We all have a stake in our recovery and while vindication is great, revenge is a step in the wrong direction.
              That's aside I abhor censorship and feel there should be no effort to hide the post.
              [–]EarthAngel007 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
              The OP deleted it.
              Also, there are rules. If you break the rules, the post should be deleted.
              [–]Joarthus 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
              While this is obviously not behavior we want to propagate or accept, on some level I can understand it. These people stripped away our power and fucked us up for life. The ability to take charge and shift that power in your favor for the first time can be a very hard thing to resist.
              [–]Pyrepenol 4 points5 points6 points  (18 children)
              Unfortunately this sub cultivates attitudes like the ones of those who agreed with what the person was doing. I feel like I can't disagree with anybody here for any reason without getting bitched out by a moderator.
              [–]exscapegoat 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
              The mods are asking people to report the posts rather than members taking matters into their own hands. I think it's a perfectly reasonable request. Use the report button and they can take a look at the post and see if it violates the standards.
              If users take matters into their own hands, the drama from that can overwhelm an online community and detract it from its mission of support. Trolls and narcs feed off of attention like that. Reporting it to the mods and letting them handle it behind the scenes starves trolls and narcs of the attention they so desperately crave.
              [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
              f users take matters into their own hands, the drama from that can overwhelm an online community and detract it from its mission of support. Trolls and narcs feed off of attention like that. Reporting it to the mods and letting them handle it behind the scenes starves trolls and narcs of the attention they so desperately crave.
              EXACTLY!!! You said it better than I said it myself. Thank you!
              [–]exscapegoat 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
              Thanks. I've seen it happen at a few other places. The reason I spend time here and at a few other subs and another board is because they're lightly but well moderated. Thank you and the other mods for the time you put in to make that happen.
              [–]ArabRedditor 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
              exactly
              [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
              We certainly don't intend to "bitch out" anybody - we always try to be respectful, and if you ever find that we are not, please send us a modmail. That said, I stand by our removal of your comments in this subreddit. When you do not assume a context of abuse, we will remove your comments. That rule is very clear on our sidebar.
              [–][deleted]  (10 children)
              [removed]
                [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 1 point2 points3 points  (7 children)
                Removed.
                People get to rant here. We don't have a bar that is set so that if people aren't getting punched, they can't complain.
                Living with an abuser takes a whole lot of out of most people. If they want to complain that their abuser said something rude, they are welcome to. If you want to be in a subreddit that doesn't allow this, then I suggest you go find that subreddit, because RBN isn't going to be it.
                [–]lydsbane 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
                Hold on. Why was my post removed? I already had a conversation with another person regarding this, and I understood the position and thanked them for the response.
                Edit: I guess people only get to rant here when it comes to their abuse at the hands of people they're in personal contact with. Nobody is allowed to have an opinion that differs from the mods. Don't worry, I'm unsubscribing. I don't feel comfortable here anymore, anyway. Being silenced is something I grew up dealing with. And I know I'm not alone in that.
                [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                Your comment is not on topic with the post. And, generally, we remove these sorts of comments.
                Last night, when it was just yours and you responded nicely, I see why hagilles let your comment be, since you responded well. However, at this point, we are now getting flooded with "this sub is fully of brats" ... "you're all teenagers." etc. It's not helpful It's derailing the post.
                [–]lydsbane 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                My comment had neither of those comments in it, but do what you feel you must do, I suppose.
                [–][deleted]  (3 children)
                [removed]
                  [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
                  Do you really think the moderators of a support group are going to allow a culture of "this place is full of whiners" to grow in the group ranks? It makes no sense at all.
                  [–]Pyrepenol 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
                  No, I expect a support group to allow criticism when it's in a serious context. Cultivating a culture where the only mod-approved opinion is "cut all contact with your parents" is even worse.
                  [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  We allow criticism. What we do not allow is very harsh and unproductive criticism or victim blaming. Many people here who say we do not allow criticism do not seem to be able to see the difference.
                  Look through my history. I criticize posters in this subreddit. This post is enormous evidence of that. I upvote people who can do it diplomatically and with empathy. Any support group NEEDS that.
                  But, not when it is done harshly, rudely or with namecalling or with misinformation about abuse or ignorance about abuse, etc.
                  [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  The problem is that we have no way of really knowing how bad anyone's abuse is. Anyone can come here and lie, if they wanted to - but for every liar, there is at least one person who has been significantly abused and really needs support. Our "assume a context of abuse" rule exists for that reason. If we start drawing lines in the sand about what people are or aren't allowed to qualify as abuse, where do we stop, you know?
                  That said, you are absolutely welcome to ask for constructive criticism in your own posts, and offer it on posts where the OP has asked for it. We won't remove those comments if that constructive criticism is what OP has asked for. As a general rule, anything with the "Support" flair will have comments that are not, well, supportive removed. That flair is used in situations where the OP is more vulnerable or sensitive.
                  [–]lydsbane 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  Thank you for responding.
                  [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S,M] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  This is a support group. You can challenge people here (when it is appropriate), but it must be done sensitively and with empathy. If you don't know how to do this, then you won't be able to issue challenges here.
                  My co-mods can tell you that even I struggle with how to word challenges to people sometimes. Challenging someone in a support group is super tricky and it usually requires a lot of thought.
                  [–]lydsbane -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
                  Obviously so, since it just happened to me, even though another mod explained this eloquently and I thanked them for it.
                  [–]heyluis_ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  I can totally understand the revenge feeling of the OP, but... i can't justify his actions... I know, my blood boils every time i contact my abuser, but... we are trying here to be better than them... and revenge is not a way of improvement.
                  [–]lnodiv 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  This is really sad.
                  [–]darklordoftech 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  Two wrongs don't make a right.
                  [–]Dr_Mrs_TheM0narchLC-ACoN/Vampire,N-Siblings, SG 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  I stopped reading at "its probably for the best" wtf!?!
                  [–]SpaceCaptainJeeves34; NMom, EDad; Gen Anxiety; semi functional. 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  Thanks for your ongoing work, mods.
                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)
                  [removed]
                    [–]hagillesDoNF, DoNM, NC [mod][M] 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                    I have removed your comment as it may lead people to the post in question. If you would like to edit out the details that identify the post, please reply to me when you have done so and I will reapprove your comment.
                    [–]Answer_the_CallNC DoNM 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                    I completely missed that post. Kinda glad because I don't think I could handle seeing that.
                    [–]sravllSG, LC, NBpdMom 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                    I had no idea...
                    [–]soldieroffilth 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                    It is best to always take care with such delicate matters lest we become the very thing we have all fought so hard to get away from.
                    [–]LauraEvangelineADoNM, Nsibling 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                    Come on RBN! This is a community to get over our abuse, not commit a crime. If you kill someone that makes you worse than your abuser!
                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)
                    [removed]
                      [–]SeaTurtlesCanFlyGot questions? Use the message the mods link in the sidebar![S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                      This is such a skewed perspective that it is ridiculous.
                      I banned people in that thread, because we were being brigaded by a group that brigades us all the time. Someone got banned who was from a group that was yet again brigading us and I wouldn't have caught them unless they were breaking our rules in huge and gross ways.
                      For all the complaining in those comments, no one reported what was going on to the mods. The OP didn't. The complaining commenters didn't. The rule breaking brigaders sure as heck didn't.
                      In a twist if irony, one of the banned brigaders gave me the archived link. For that I actually am quite grateful. Am I going to unban someone that was part of a group that gives us so much grief and who was breaking a dozen rules that day? It seems pointless, because I am sure they will brigade again and end up banned another day, but I still might consider it if that person gave me a sincere apology. As yet, that hasn't happened.
                      Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy (updated). © 2016 reddit inc. All rights reserved.
                      REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc.
                      π Rendered by PID 3880 on app-393 at 2016-05-02 03:15:22.626850+00:00 running 89d14be country code: NL.
                      Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies.  Learn More
                      0%
                       
                      10%
                       
                      20%
                       
                      30%
                       
                      40%
                       
                      50%
                       
                      60%
                       
                      70%
                       
                      80%
                       
                      90%
                       
                      100%