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[Discussion] Rooney in midfield (self.reddevils)

NariTMUF が 投稿

How are you guys liking Rooney in a more central role so far?

We know he has played there on some occasion under SAF and LvG.

Has he improved there?

Is he capable of playing there more comfortably in the future?

Would you like to see him play alongside Carrick or Schneiderlin as the holding midfielder in the future?

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[–]thecricketnerdYoung 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's our best box to box CM at the moment, shouldn't be considered anything more than stop gap though. Same as Blind at CB.

[–]Fm661 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thought was very good at CM and think the role suits him well. Dictated the game, good range of passing and looked good going forward, lacked a little positionally but made up for that in tenacity and stopped what I would class as a very good chance when Gray was gonna get on the end of Ulloa header, albeit with a cheeky pull and foul which went unnoticed. Thought he played well with the big man further forward combo

However was never rushed in possession particularly as Leicester sit deep and I would like to see a bit more of him against a team that is going to press. Think may see more of a poor touch and struggle from him in that case but can only wait and see. Gotta say though from what I have seen, very impressed in that position.

[–]DelusionalThomas666Blind 18ポイント19ポイント  (19子コメント)

I'm not too impressed tbh.

He's great at pressing, tracking back and spraying those crossfield passes, but he's too careless on the ball and can get dispossessed easily at times.

We lack a player who can pass between the lines, Blind is the only one that's capable of playing passes through the middle. Carrick used to play those passes, but he's been way too safe this year.

I don't think Rooney will ever evolve into a top midfielder.

[–]MrBenLadAnder the Saviour 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

I was really impressed with Blind's passing yesterday. Even in a LB role we have relied on him a lot to pull the strings from the back. Would love to see what he could do with a world class CAM by his side in midfield.

[–]BertrandRusDave 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

IMO Blind would be a much better CM than CB. Like you said, his passing range is fantastic, only one on the team besides Carrick who has that ability to pass through an opposition's midfield and defence.

[–]wvufan44 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea everyone who says we needs a Carrick replacement needs to just look around in the team. Once Daley is freed from the shackles of CB I think he'd be a class CM. Reads the game brilliantly and can pick a pass. Stick him in a midfield 3 with Schneiderlin and Tim once he develops a bit more.

[–]tiger1296Masturbinho 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't you guys remember Blind playing at the bottom of the diamond in LVG's first season? The guy was terrible at it, which is why he started playing LB

[–]sizzlelikeasnail 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't recall him carelessly giving away possession yesterday though. The only one who took heavy touches was Rashford.

I feel like everyone is judging him in the wrong area. He was playing CDM along with Carrick. It makes no sense to judge his game on how often he played balls through to Rashford. We wouldn't expect that of Schneiderlin if he was paired with Carrick. Why should this be any different? Besides, the reason why he mainly passed to the wings was due to a lack of movement in the center.

I think he did exactly what was asked of him. If your criticism is he wasn't envolved in attack enough, blame LVG for playing him deeper than both Fellaini and Herrera when he came on.

It's harsh to say he was unimpressive. I don't think we currently have a midfielder with the stamina required to do what Rooney did yesterday. I thought he was one of better players.

[–]OhHayJohn -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

He got caught dwelling the ball loads yesterday in the second half. And his passing was also poor.

But Schneiderlin is a completely different player to Rooney? So can't really compare expectations between them. Schneiderlin strongest aspects are his defensive contribution and that's what he does with a few long raking passes now and then. Rooney's best contribution should be his forward passes and creativity and yet both were lacking yesterday.

[–]sizzlelikeasnail 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

He got caught dwelling the ball loads yesterday in the second half.

But he genuinely didn't? We had around 70% possession and there was no one constantly giving the ball away. His touch was fine and i don't know what you mean by poor passing. I only recall around 2-3 bad passes at most in the entire 90 mins.

And my point wasn't to say Schneiderlin is the same type. It's that if Schneiderlin was in Rooneys spot yesterday, the last thing anyone would criticise him about is a lack of through balls or runs through the middle. Why? Because it's not his job. Don't you see how ridiculous to blame a CDM for a lack of creativity despite 4 attacking players infront of him? He didn't through the center because Rashford made no runs and Fellaini stood like a statue waiting for headers. Opting to play the ball to Martial/Lingard was smarter.

Rooney did exactly what he was supposed to. Doesn't matter what you think his best trait is. The real issue is instead of an actual CAM to do what you described, we had Fellaini in CF.

Rooney has had horrible CM/CDM displays in the past but yesterday (or against Everton) wasn't one of them

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The guy said he was caught dwelling on the ball on a few occasions and he is not wrong

[–]sizzlelikeasnail 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh ok. I wasn't aware that to be able to praise someone they have to go the entire game without giving the ball away once.

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be honest I didn't think Rooney was awful but I also didn't think he was good. He didn't give the ball away much but he did play some really awful passes and was caught on the ball more than once. He came across sluggish to me. He could have also been booked for a few tackles he got away with meaning a red

[–]OhHayJohn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Off the top of my head, I remember three incidents were Rooney was caught dwelling on the ball.

Yeah but Rooney should be providing the through balls, the runs forward because that's what we should expect from him. It's not like he had to give a defence master-class yesterday or had to man mark anyone, so you'd expect someone like Rooney - who is suppose to be an attacking threat - to provide attacking spark. Nevermind that he was deeper than normally, he still had the time and space to start attacks/pull the strings.

I thought he was good against Everton - though second half, his display dipped as did everyone - but I thought he was average to poor yesterday, esp in the second half.

[–]sizzlelikeasnail 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

, so you'd expect someone like Rooney - who is suppose to be an attacking threat - to provide attacking spark.

Yes. I'd expect that if he was played in CF and told to attack. But we had Fellaini there with Rashford infront of him. Along with Martial and Lingard on the wings.

So as a CDM against a fast paced counter attacking team in great form like Leicester, I'd expect him to cover a lot of ground, keep possession and (providing there's no options in the center), spread the play. Not bomb upfield and leave Carrick all alone or spray balls over the top to a stationary Rashford and Fellaini like you're suggesting

[–]ParkerZAYoung 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

When Herrera came on he showed exactly what Rooney lacked in his game. He played two great penetrative passes to Memphis and Martial, one of them leading to Drinkwater's red card.

[–]mannahmannahScholes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the other long pass to Martial resulted in another potential goal scoring opportunity, with Memphis almost getting to the ball before Schmeichel.

[–]BuksageDe Gea - The Only World Class Player We Have 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly what I wanted to say, too careless on the ball, easily gets dispossessed. He is nowhere near Scholes level.

[–]BertrandRusDave 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not too impressed tbh.

I'm glad this is a popular opinion on this sub. While Rooney is a fantastic leader, I think his playing days are almost behind him. We should either start incorporating other players into the starting line up next season or the one after that or buy a replacement.

[–]fakeplasticairbag -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

On what basis is he a fantastic leader?

[–]fakeplasticairbag -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

He's never going to be a top anything again. He's just a decent upper mid table player no matter where he's picked and has been for two years now.

[–]yiyiyiyiHerrera 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The last two games are probably the best he's ever played in midfield to be fair. But it's not his position and he doesn't have the legs for it any more. And he's definitely not going to be anywhere close to a world class player.

Playing Rooney in midfield is just delaying the inevitable. Sure he can play there for a couple years and look like an average midfielder but you're better off just getting rid and signing an actual world class midfielder.

[–]ReflectingGodMata 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he is solid in midfield and I'm happy with him continuing there for the rest of the season. In the future however (next season)? I'd rather we went out and brought a proper CM. We have too many 'solid' players and not enough game changers and top players. I'm surprised its taken this long to put him in midfield again. He was fairly decent there last season and the only reason he moved up top is because we lacked goals, Rooney never solved that issue, possibly made it worse as he went scoreless in the last 7 matches in the season and then scored just 2 in the first 19 matches of this season.

I wonder if we do look to selling him, whether it be this summer or the next, if teams will look to him as a decent central midfield option because right now I'm not convinced he is good enough to be starting up top for a club like Everton (a team that should be pushing for top 6).

[–]mufcirclejerk 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

He looks decent there at home versus sides with less mobile midfields. Against a side with a truly quick or technical central midfield - Barca, Arsenal, etc. - he would be found out very quickly.

It seems to suit us better because it allows our three most mobile attackers (Rashford, Lingard, Martial) to make runs, whilst giving Carrick a decent short option.

We obviously still (STILL!) need to buy central midfielders. I'm optimistic that Schneiderlin can be part of a midfield pairing in the long term, but we need someone more dynamic to play alongside him.

[–]danskzwag -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You dont even need a quick or technical midfield drinkwater made him look average

[–]adguig 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

I thought yesterday was his best display at CM. Most of the time I think his touch and positioning are poor but his passing is good, but in this game he retained the ball really well and didn't really look out of position often. His range of passing is better than anyone on the team barring Blind imo, even Carrick because as much as I like him he rarely takes a grip of the game and sets the tempo himself which is what Rooney did yesterday. It's an interesting experiment that I didn't think would work but it seems to be improving.

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't mind him there but I don't like his constant long slow pass out to Valencia. It is not useful when the other team is already organised and can just watch the ball glide over to him. He should stop doing that unless it is done quickly

[–]CosmicGravyMemphis 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

You're right, he helped completely isolate Rashford out of the game. Plenty of times he was ready to make a run in behind and all Roo had to do was lob the ball over the back yet he kept opting to slowly boot it out wide to Valencia, giving Leicester the time to get back numbers into the box.

Long diagonals can be helpful sometimes but there is a time and a place. A top CM needs to have more than short passes and long diagonals in his passing arsenal.

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah exactly. I think our goal against Villa the other week is an example of when a long pass to the wings is useful, when it is done quickly and the other team is not already organised.

I always get the feeling with Rooney that he gets stupid obsessions. He has always done that long slow pass wide to Valencia, for about 5 years now. He also has not snapped out of trying to score ridiculous chips from outside the area, as he infuriated me with another one of these efforts yesterday

[–]adguig 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh god the chips. It's become basically a meme at this point between my friends

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember being at a match a few years ago. Wolves 2012 I think, we won 4-1 or 4-0 I don't remember. Rooney got through on goal twice in the second half, both times he tried to chip the keeper. The first one the crowd were fairly annoyed. The second one The whole stand got up in fury, swearing and shouting. I jumped up from my seat in such a rage my phone flew down a few rows and hit someone. Never have I seen such rage at Old trafford

[–]danskzwag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's no surprise when Rooney plays at 10 or midfield that our ST struggles

[–]adguig 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's clear lvg wants to use that because a core of his strategy is switching the play to the wingers. Whether it's the right thing to do or not depends on the opposition but most of the time it's useful imo. I'm not sure about these through ball opportunities when Leicester were playing such a low block although I agree with the sentiment. I think he does have that in his locker, hence why I think it's an interesting proposal having him develop in cm.

[–]danskzwag -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Carrick and blind control games Rooney doesn't , look at the players when Carrick or blind are on the blind they all wait and expect. Herrera and Morgan even Bastian are all better midfielders and have a better range of passing

[–]cheesehead99Martial 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he has done pretty well and he has been playing some really nice passes.

[–]reddit_no_likeyHey... Hey... Sack the manager. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, I prefer him play where Fellaini was all game, which was #10. Rooney's best position is as a hybrid CAM position. Let him advance in attack and track back when necessary, but there is too much gap created when there aren't consistent midfielders in their spots.

Fellaini was just good for defensive headers, again. Rooney would have been a bigger asset in attack than him. This is a game where United should have had more than one goal. I said it before the game, we needed a fast squad against the Foxes, and Fellaini isn't fast.

[–]RoodonkeyMartial 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe late to the party, but here's my two cents

In general, I like Rooney in midfield, but I do not like him next to Fellaini. I don't mean that as a way to bash Fellaini, but I think tactically, it takes away from Rooney's game.

The big reason why is that Fellaini is too eager to move up and play as a second striker. It's hard to say if that's the plan or just his style of playing, it genuinely could be both.

Rooney, even though he might not be nimble or quick enough to play as our out and out striker, is still the best finisher in our squad in my opinion. And every time Fellaini goes forward, he's forced to sitting back and spraying long passes. It limits his game far too much. The whole point of a double pivot is that both players should have the freedom to get forward in and around the box. And Rooney would be great at finding those gaps if he wasn't spending his legs deeper in the pitch. He should be switching between both.

Either way, bar De Gea and Valencia, he's arguably been our best player since coming back, and I think people still criticise him too much. I understand why you'd want more from a player on his wages, but even off form he's still one of our best player I think.

tldr: He's good, but could be better with a different partner, or a tweak in his role

[–]m1r0k0vRooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same role he had at the start of the season and failed pretty hard? Or was that last season?

[–]__Imperator 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's good at long range passing and being aggressive, has good stamina and a good shot, but he's not really anywhere near the level we require - his short range passing, first touch and tackling are all sub-par.

[–]drexter12 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Rooney would fit perfectly under Mourinho in a counter-attacking midfield role to be honest. No one can deny his good long range passing ability.

I think with Shaw coming back and more pace in the squad upfront now, it could be done. Right now, too often our players including Carrick and Mata are scared to make a lofted pass that takes out the opponent's defense in one sweep (especially against weaker teams).

[–]danskzwag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Carrick and Blind have good long range passing they can play different types of long balls all rooney does is the ball across to the winger thats it

[–]battlesMcNair 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He gave the ball away a lot against Leicester City.

[–]Kimash-sama -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's too deep(that's what she said). I think he'd be more effective further forward.

[–]Takley -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's a solid option, but nothing special

Like, if we were competing for the title , Rooney wouldn't look out of place in that type of midfield role , but he wouldn't be one of those "watch out for him" type players

[–]njpatelAnder Herrera -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have Schneiderlin & Herrera, we don't need Rooney to be a midfielder (in which he does nothing of substance), I'd rather he be a good no. 10, which it looks like he's forgotten how to do.

I can't remember one cutting throughball yesterday, or any fanciness on the edge of the box to get a yard of space. i can't remember a single pass he did that was to Rashford.

Rooney is so below par right now, we'd be better off starting with Herrera in no. 10. I really, really, want to see Rooney do amazing for us again, but doing some fancy cross-field balls, and then playing 1-2 with Carrick in the centre circle, is hardly something to write home about.

[–]danskzwag -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

His passing range isn't the best and he kills the same amount of attacks as mata, his passing reminds me of TC23 and you can just tell he doesnt have the awareness to be a good mf if this was 2 or 3 seasons ago I would say he makes the 11 now we have better options.

[–]Dazzooo -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think we need to move Rooney on. The fact of the matter is he is not the striker he was 5 years ago, we have better options and he's definitely not a midfielder. Why change the position on Rooney when you have far better options in Bastian, Carrick, Schneiderlin, Herrera and Mata?