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Gentrifaction of Ithaca (thetab.com)
PotentPollen が 18時間前 投稿
[–]undreamt_odds 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 17時間前 (6子コメント)
Tompkins County could easily have invested in providing affordable housing instead of renovating an already impressive library and could have spent a little less on the Commons reconstruction and a little more on building affordable housing/renovating the pre-existing LMI housing
Tompkins County didn't spend money on the Commons. Much of the money came from the federal government and the remainder were grants or monies raised by the sale of bonds IJ
And to complain that the County spent money on the library and used the wrong numbers is just even worse. Yes $1.4 million is going to renovate the library, but the County is only spending $300k
The Tompkins County Public Library Foundation's 21st Century Library Campaign will cover the project's $1.1 million cost. Tompkins County taxpayers will pay for the library's $300,000 carpet replacement. IJ
The Tompkins County Public Library Foundation's 21st Century Library Campaign will cover the project's $1.1 million cost.
Tompkins County taxpayers will pay for the library's $300,000 carpet replacement. IJ
I'm more concerned that IC and Cornell are giving degrees to people who can't read fucking articles. I didn't even do any digging, I just took the time to click the links and read past the headlines.
[+]PotentPollen[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 16時間前* (5子コメント)
None of the points you have articulated address the issue at hand, which is the economic repercussions for low income families in Ithaca due to the influx of real estate development. Perhaps the county did not directly fund the bulk of the project, but they certainly chose to allocate funds for projects that many would deem frivolous and paved the way for more real estate investment which again, is going to displace low income families who are mainly minorities.
You're right, you didn't do any digging. I'm more concerned with assholes like you that miss the entire point of the piece. The immediate and obvious fact is that Ithaca is shockingly segregated, and that the current land development is going to hurt these communities. That fact is pretty independent of where the money is coming from.
[–]undreamt_odds 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 15時間前* (4子コメント)
If you are going to write an article you should at the very least have your information correct.
On to the point you were trying to make about gentrification, which you are hoping to portray as a wholly negative thing. The reason that we have the ever increasing rent costs is due to the seemingly endless amounts of money that IC and Cornell students (or their parents) throw around. And yes that does effect many people who are low income, but it has also forced out the middle class in Ithaca, people like myself have been forced out to areas like Dryden, Groton, and Enfield because of it.
Every time someone attempts to build new housing in the City of Ithaca we have an extended conversation in City Hall and in the media about ensuring that there is affordable housing. Just look to Breckenridge Place:
At Breckenridge Place, the 50-unit INHS building opened in May 2014, 31 of the units are reserved for people making half of the area’s median income. For a single person, that ceiling is $27,594 and for couples $31,531: salary ceilings that many cooks, students, and artists. There are also units reserved there for people making 60 percent and 90 percent of the median income, and their rents are somewhat more depending on pay: on the whole, apartments there range in price from about $650 to about $1,150 per month. ithaca.com
Another aspect of gentrification is the replacement of small businesses in the community. For that you can place the blame squarely on Svante, but and the Commons build. But to be fair to him, we don't know the long term effects of all the upgrades and work. You could argue that the storefronts that are gone simply weren't viable to begin with if they couldn't withstand the construction period.
Or we can focus on the West End, I mean nothing screams hipster gentrification like The Westy (where you can often find Mayor Myrick) and the surrounding blocks which have slowly transitioned from a drug fueled stab fest into a slightly less drug fueled location for thriving small business like the Kitchen Theater and Saigon Kitchen but also a place for human services. There is the DSS office, Office for the Aging, Cayuga Addiction Recovery Services, the Southern Tier Aids Program (and their needle exchange), and the expanded Fingerlakes Planned Parenthood.
And there is the bad as well. The poor in our community are forced into cramped buildings owned by slum lords, and many of those places fall outside of the city. I'd like to be a bit more of a bleeding heart but it is a but difficult when you have things like Section 8 (administered by Tompkins Community Action and Ithaca Housing Authority), HUD grants, Catholic Charities, and DSS paying for said housing. Not to mention things like STEHP (Solutions to end Homelessness program) and FUP (Family Unification Program).
To be quite honest, I don't give two shits about micro-aggression on a college campus that I couldn't afford to go to and what yuppies think about downtown Ithaca and its because I work down there and spend my money down there. I know the communities on Corn St and Plain St because it is where I have spent the last twenty years of my life. Low income families suffer in this community, we can agree on that, but there isn't a rush of anyone attempting to take over their communities. You'd know that if you came off the hills.
/rant
edit: small typos, and boy did I jump from one thing to another.
[+]PotentPollen[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 15時間前* (3子コメント)
You're definitely correct that IC and Cornell play a role in generating interest from investment firms (my editor removed this part of the article), but I still think you're allowing personal views override blatant facts about the simple ratio of money spent on maintaining and expanding LMI housing versus building "modern" housing or renovating the Commons or the library. You're correct, the more homework I did the more complicated I realized this issue was, so I tried to make it as plain and simple as I could for a college audience that are more concerned with micro-aggressions than gentrification (the enormous irony of suddenly aware college students who took a class on race relations and are suddenly "experts" on the matter). Those were the people this article was geared for, because I agree with you the hipsters and the yuppies and their parents and the whole false-flag progressive nature that seems to be developing is part of the problem. That being said, you don't know me or where I live (I don't live on the hill FYI...). The point of this article was to raise awareness about something these kids don't acknowledge. I guess you're more informed than myself, and I should have called you up for an interview.
edit: to be clear, because tone is obviously difficult with the written medium, I very much appreciate your input and I am not being sarcastic when I say I wish I could have consulted with people like you before the deadline of the article.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 13時間前 (2子コメント)
a college audience that are more concerned with micro-aggressions
So that's where the subtle race baiting came in, to get those college clicks. Makes sense.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 12時間前 (1子コメント)
Yes because in context the possibility of people losing their houses IMO outweighs micro-aggressions.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
Why are you convinced that people who can no longer afford to live in an area DESERVE to continue living in that area even if it means that we need to funnel money toward housing developments that nobody wants to fund/vote for? It makes no sense.
[–]levalet 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 15時間前 (5子コメント)
Even though high real estate prices really do have a terribly negative impact on Ithacans, this article is a mess. No confidence in what? Do you not understand that every additional unit in Ithaca, regardless of its price, brings aggregate home prices down? (This is not an argument against building lower-income housing, which is also desperately needed. Both can happen at the same time.) Have you looked into the way that current residents are opposing new construction (like the local opposition to low-income housing in Fall Creek), and the way this makes higher-end projects "easier" to get people behind? You say you don't care about microaggressions, but citizen preference for housing they visualize being filled by white people is a substantial political force.
What's worst is probably the way that the article tries to distract attention from actual racism on and off of IC's campus in favor of some muddled version of a NYC conversation. Somebody's got to demolish something in Ithaca in order to build new housing. Too much of our housing stock is nearing 100 years old, and it's inefficient in spatial and energy terms. There has been no indication, and there is no plan, to demolish the small amount of majority-black housing in Ithaca. A much bigger problem for black communities, as Myrick points out in the articles you're cribbing from, is rent-raising landlords who refuse Section 8 and punish their residents with profit-taking behavior.
If you want to improve the situation here, there are really only two things you can do. One is empower Myrick. Get in at the town halls, contact your council member, write letters. He makes good decisions, but he fights too many of our battles alone, and whining about the cost of the Commons without even looking into why it was necessary isn't helping anyone. Two is try to change the cultural conversation in the city. A lot more white Ithacans put up BLM signs than are willing to rent to low-income people; behind a certain amount of the nattering about parking and neighborhood "character" is regular old Yankee racism.
I applaud you for caring, but you haven't contributed enough with this on a practical or conceptual level to earn the right to blow smoke at a real, concrete political movement on IC's campus.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 14時間前 (0子コメント)
I appreciate you're constructive criticism (I am not a journalist, I'm a Physics Major). I NEVER said I do not care about micro-aggressions, I said that I think the focus of the protests on campus were to get rid of the college president while in the background the whole landscape of Ithaca is changing. I was not trying to distract the conversation but rather zoom the scope out because students are very unaware of all of the points you lovely and so well informed people are sharing with me. I plan on being at these town hall meetings and staying in Ithaca, and being part of the solution not the problem. Perhaps I attempted to tackle too large of an issue too quickly, but I felt like it was more important to get a conversation started ON CAMPUS about this issue because NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT.
[–]Bigblaze93 -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 13時間前 (3子コメント)
Just to clarify. When you say that people in Ithaca want these high end projects because it increases our perceived value, does that make it okay to ignore the low end? It doesn't seem like you feel that way, but it also seems like you're angry about something. I don't think the author is saying to ignore micro-aggressions, just trying to push the cultural conversation along as you suggest. To make people aware that people could potentially be pushed out of their homes by the increasing price of rent. I am curious to hear your solution to the problem
Perhaps people who require rent to artificially low to live in an area shouldn't live in that area. Is that so incredibly unreasonable? Why does an economic issue have to be cloaked in all this identity politics crap.
[–]Bigblaze93 -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 12時間前 (1子コメント)
So we should just kick poor people out of homes they're already in? Politics and economics are with out a doubt intertwined.
[–]SwineFluPandemic -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
I get that it's not very empathetic but I don't see how it makes more sense to subsidize people who can't afford to live here. Why not have them naturally find less expensive apartments that aren't downtown? Housing projects always work out for the best right...
[–]OHMYDAYUMTHEYGOINHAM 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12時間前 (3子コメント)
Shi Tpa Town
[–]OHMYDAYUMTHEYGOINHAM 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12時間前 (2子コメント)
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLJHQC3c9kiSD1qpXO5m7yQLbewewXO1DdJ0vsDLmtpmEDP37d
[–]PotentPollen[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 9時間前 (1子コメント)
Hmmmm.... looks familiar
[–]OHMYDAYUMTHEYGOINHAM 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD1kuGibhvGNlKueVskaeP6EpUwhwYBI_axIOex9AIIH99Nrw4
[–]SwineFluPandemic -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 14時間前 (31子コメント)
This article is a mess. It's just a hodgepodge of "socially conscious" speculation and race baiting. What does race have to do with the trend of development the majority of the article centers on? You could have left it at "low income families". There's no allegation of developers or local government having any racial motivations but why not throw some graphics and nonsense about the IC protests to tint the whole thing.
with a little help from Merrill Lynch (an enormous financial institution)
Banks are bad, the obvious implication here. No need to defend this one, it's just telling.
a dizzying amount of land development projects either in progress or under review that, after heavy investigation, seem to be inattentive (to say the least) to the problem of gentrification. economic rebounds from these sprawling construction projects will inevitably have fiscal repercussions that will hit impoverished Ithacans the hardest.
a dizzying amount of land development projects either in progress or under review that, after heavy investigation, seem to be inattentive (to say the least) to the problem of gentrification.
economic rebounds from these sprawling construction projects will inevitably have fiscal repercussions that will hit impoverished Ithacans the hardest.
Who says it's a problem? Why should private developers be responsible for your pet causes? As a homeowner in Ithaca I'm happy to see more investment in the area. If nobody is building low income housing then maybe it's not a good investment. If you think it's such a good investment you should do it. Certain income levels get priced out of areas as they progress all the time. Spending taxpayer money subsidizing a move against this trend is something that only people who have no significant tax burden in the area would suggest. Or bleeding heart liberal students. And no surprise, you're a student.
[–]levalet 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 14時間前 (15子コメント)
I'm not going to get into it with you again, but you HAVE to learn at some point that people who RENT HOUSING pay PROPERTY TAXES. They comprise part of the PRICE of RENT. 22 cents of every $1 spent on rent goes to taxes.
If that didn't work, I'll try boldface next time.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 14時間前 (1子コメント)
Look more loud liberal soon-to-be-gone students with ideas on how local money should be spent. You don't need to make your point every time you see me.
I'm not going anywhere, you'll be hearing a lot more from me.
[–]Bigblaze93 -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 13時間前 (3子コメント)
Cool. So everyone who pays taxes as a rent payer in Ithaca, including the OP contributed to the $300,000 that went to redoing the carpet in the library. When it could have been spent on the low income housing
[–]SwineFluPandemic 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 13時間前 (2子コメント)
I'd rather it be spent on redoing the library personally.
[–]Bigblaze93 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12時間前 (1子コメント)
Not only is the public library insanely nice, but Cornell and IC libraries are open to the public. If we have three libraries in this town, how does it make sense to spend twice the amount svante was asking for low income housing, on the carpet of one? It just seems a little heartless.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)
Why do we have an obligation to build below market-rate apartments for people who can no longer afford to live in a growing area? You and others arguing this opinion seem to think it's some sort of obvious moral axiom but it's really just a political opinion.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 14時間前 (8子コメント)
okay, cool fact. 1+1 = 2. This comment, and most of these comments, have literally nothing to do with the message of the article. Although I'm thoroughly enjoying how much upheaval this is generating because clearly a nerve has been struck.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 13時間前 (7子コメント)
If nobody who reads your writing gets your point then your writing sucks. We're just responding to what you actually said.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 12時間前 (6子コメント)
How very mature of you. I'm not sure if my writing sucks or you're just afraid of what I have to say. I'm sorry that you feel that way though I guess I'll have to work harder to be as articulate as you are.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 12時間前 (5子コメント)
I'm not sure if my writing sucks or you're just afraid of what I have to say.
I have absolutely no idea what you could possibly mean by that. Why would I be afraid of anything you've said here? Do you think your poorly thought out opining on thetab.com is consequential? You should definitely work harder on your writing. Or less on writing and more on physics.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 12時間前 (4子コメント)
Ithaca enjoys it's progressive identity, which this article most certainly threatens. I don't know why you're so upset about this article. If you think my writing is so bad then you wouldn't be this upset.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 11時間前 (3子コメント)
I think everyone should have a place to live but the world is not obligated to give them every choice someone who can pay market rent rates has. People who can't pay rent downtown don't have a right to live downtown. Why would I not be annoyed with glib self important shit like " I'm not sure if my writing sucks or you're just afraid of what I have to say." and "I'll also keep writing to piss off people like you until the day I die."?
[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 11時間前 (2子コメント)
Well I suppose we can just agree to disagree. You personally attacked my writing, so I provoked back (which in hindsight was a poor choice because people like you feed off of negative energy). That being said I stand by the second statement because I think it's important to have a diversity of opinions in a free society.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 11時間前 (1子コメント)
So you think people actually have an intrinsic right to live wherever they want even if they can't actually afford it? I just want you to acknowledge the idea laid bare. It's what I take issue with at heart and it's surprising to me that you seriously believe that.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 14時間前* (14子コメント)
The article says that private developers have every right to develop land where ever they want, and they don't have to care about their impact. You assume a lot of things about me which is quite funny considering you don't know me, but I'm glad you read the article and I appreciate the criticism (although perhaps you could try and be a bit more civil for the sake of rational discourse). Banks are not bad, they are the core of any economic system. Banks that use their money to influence politics and the societies they exist within have the potential to be bad. Merrill Lynch is unequivocally a large financial institution... That's just a fact, and I never said a bank was bad. Just like a hammer or a gun isn't intrinsically bad.
The reason race plays a role in the article is because of the concentration of minorities and the fact that this concentration also tends to be in regions of lower income families. These construction projects surround those regions. The statement that "if nobody is building low income housing then maybe it is not a good investment" is encoded with so much apathy I cannot even begin to understand where you are coming from.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 14時間前 (13子コメント)
EDIT: I responded to this before you edited your comment changing the entire thing, I'm not reading your crap again.
So low income housing is a "pet cause"?
Yes. The idea that local government (and therefore taxpayers) should subsidize below market-rate housing projects is an opinion and part of a political ideology, not some obvious and intrinsic fact of the universe.
I don't know if you're playing dumb about my merril lynch comment or if you're just a natural but I think it was obvious I was teasing you for also throwing that in and implying that merril investing in Ithaca is implicitly ethically dubious because of their size or something.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 14時間前 (12子コメント)
The idea that private land developers should be allowed to spend enormous quantities of money on changing the landscape of a community is also not an intrinsic part of the universe.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 14時間前 (11子コメント)
So what, because of how you feel about "gentrification" people shouldn't be allowed to privately acquire and develop land with their own "enormous quantities" of money? I don't get what you're even saying here. Banks and companies investing in Ithaca is bad because they could instead be building housing projects for poor black Ithacans that are subsidized by taxpayers? Is that the gist of it?
I do not understand you at all.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 14時間前* (10子コメント)
I said in the article that private developers can do whatever they want. I just think that if we can afford to allot so much money to redevelopment or renovation, then perhaps some of that money could also be used to prevent people from being pushed out of their homes (literally a thousandth of 1 percent of some of these projects is more than the federal grants given for LMI housing).
edit: for example, the $300,000 dollars spent on carpets in the library is already ~twice the amount of money that was received from Federal grants (for LMI housing).
[–]SwineFluPandemic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 13時間前 (9子コメント)
I said in the article that private developers can do whatever they want.
That doesn't even agree with your earlier posting of
The idea that private land developers should be allowed to spend enormous quantities of money on changing the landscape of a community
You can't even keep your own point of view straight across two posts. Why should private developers developing somehow necessitate low income housing? Why should they be required to pay for it?
I just think that if we can afford to allot so much money to redevelopment or renovation
Who's we? I thought we were talking about private money here. Now suddenly you're talking about public money appropriated for the repair of a library.
If you don't think enough public money is being appropriated for low income housing then complain to elected officials and stop whinging about private development and acting like investment in Ithaca is some sort of negative.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 13時間前 (8子コメント)
Yeah, because that is my personal opinion and I didn't want to include that in the article because I was trying to be objective.
I am NOT saying that private developers should do ANYTHING. I'm saying it's pretty sad that Svante has to ask the federal government for less than 200k when the Tompkins county can afford to spend 300k for carpets in the library.
A large part of the article was that elected officials don't even have the power to help these communities , while the people who do choose not to and in the process will displace them.
[–]SwineFluPandemic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12時間前 (7子コメント)
I have no idea how you can consider this article objective. Good thing you're in physics.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 12時間前 (6子コメント)
Emphasis on the word trying, because of course I have opinions that seep into the writing. Yup and I'll help continue inventing the technology that allows for people of your intellect to continue surviving. But I'll also keep writing to piss off people like you until the day I die.
[–]PotentPollen[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 13時間前* (0子コメント)
I want to thank all of the people on here who provided constructive criticism. I think a lot of what has been said here is really valuable information that I wish I had known and could have used. I would also like to say that I think a lot of people on here are making a lot of assumptions about me that are unfair, and if you want to have a sensible discussion then we should try and refrain from making assumptions about other people, I'm not making assumptions about any of you... I also apologize for calling undreamt_odds an asshole, you're not an asshole, and it's language like that which prevents people from having useful dialogue.
π Rendered by PID 14408 on app-119 at 2016-05-01 14:29:17.342675+00:00 running 89d14be country code: JP.
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[–]PotentPollen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]SwineFluPandemic 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (3子コメント)
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