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Some small questions, refining the Frame (self.marriedredpill)

maxofreddit が 投稿

Hey guys, a recent post by /u/ReddJive caught my eye, and I didn't want to hijack his thread. I had a couple specific questions that seem small to me, but I wonder if I'm losing little shit tests because of it.

1st - When she thanks me for something I've done for me. Example: I do the dishes, because I can't stand having a sink full of them. She says "Thank you for doing the dishes." In my mind I didn't do it for her, I did it because I wanted a clean fucking kitchen. It makes it seem (to me) that I did it for her/her attention, which I didn't. I kinda want to say, "I didn't do them for you, no thanks necessary." Is this just being an asshole, or is it accurate, and my old BP tendencies are clouding my judgement? Or should I ignore her comment and just STFU?

I know it seems small, but little things like this really help me to stay on track.

2nd - Shit...there was another thing, but now it's elluding me, I'll edit back if it comes to me.

EDIT -

2nd - The working out thing. I CrossFit 4-5 days a week and am actually the fittest mofo I know, including the young guys. She puts in very little effort and it drives me a little crazy. She looks fine, but it isn't the best she can be. Any advice on this? Reframing our family and strong and healthy and using that? or jsut fuck it, and do my thing?

new edit -3rd What's the proper response to the variations when she says, in effect, "It makes me feel like you're not happy with our sex life."

The honest answer is, It's Ok, but not fantastic. I'm sure it's been answered here before somewhere, but the Reddit search engine doesn't turn up shit for me, and I'm new enough that I don't have a response bookmarked.

Thanks again.

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[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

  • Dishes: Perhaps start practicing being playful instead of just stewing on this. "No thanks necessary...they'll be back." In your best Terminator voice. Then say, "Come with me if you want to...sex..." Start fucking around some if you're ready for it. Turn the shit test...if it is actually one... on its ear.

  • Don't worry about her workouts. Keep building frame and a proper mindset and then she will follow you. So far you're not worth it yet.

[–]ImprovingMan 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I agree with both of these points. If she thanks you while doing the dishes, take your wet soapy had and give her butt a hard smack and laugh. I used to think about how I should respond to her if she says X, Y, or Z. But I realized that I was doing verbal combat with a ninja. There was really no winning when engaging like this, unless it is serious and needs to be dealt with. But keeping it fun and playful has worked well for me. We all smile a lot more.

As for the workouts, I don't think I would waste my energy on this one. You can help bring in healthy food or cook nutritious meals and that might work to a point. But if she doesn't have the desire to workout, I don't know that you can light that fire by explaining the health benefits. It might be sort of like trying to negotiate desire.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I do have to remember that keeping it fun & playful is up to me, not her. Some days are easier to keep this way, others are not...progress is being made on having better control over all the days.

[–]ImprovingMan 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

A while back, I was looking at my wife and I realized that she rarely smiles or laughs when we interacted. After that, I made it a point to just be playful and see if she would come along for the ride. I have to say that we are both a lot happier. She was sitting on the couch and I got my son and told him that we were going to tickle mom. She screamed for us to stop but loved it at the same time.

It is hard to be in complete control all of the time. But I kind of look at it as a group of guys going to some social event. The guys that want to come across as tough just seem insecure. The guys with a comfortable smile seem a lot more confident and are the ones that people want to talk to. The happy confident frame works.

The other day she asked me to do something and I said no problem. But that I would need a big hug before I do. When she did, I slipped an ice cube down the back of her pants and giggled her butt to make sure it went down her crack. I am serious sometimes but I make sure that there are moments like that too. Just know her moods well enough to know when to mess around and when to be more serious.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm generally a happy guy too, enough so that when we got some marriage coaching a while back, there was an issue that "everything is funny/a joke." I get that sometimes shit just ain't funny, but way more often than not, it is, indeed funny.

I'm pretty good at keeping it light, since it's in my nature, but I can get derailed sometimes. Now that I think about it, I think it has a lot to do with her cycle. Shit. That means I'm still affected by her and need to do more work to be ok with me.

Nice notes though, I like this style, since it's more me than Mr. Hardcore Alpha. And I agree that the most confident-alpha guys find most stuff entertaining/funny. Great to steer things in that direction whenever I can .

[–]ImprovingMan 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It took me a while before I paid attention to her cycle. I don't know why but I was clueless about that, and then stubborn. Sometimes I still find myself forgetting when to adjust to it.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I started tracking her cycle about a year ago after reading Athol Kay's stuff. The immediate effect was changing our date nights to coincide with the most opportune time. This alone allowed major progress to be made. It REALLY makes a difference (for us anyway), as in, the minute she starts her period, I'm suddenly not an asshole anymore and I haven't changed a thing.

I mean, I almost have compassion for her, getting horny like guys do is one thing, but being a total slave to your hormones must just suck.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nice stuff here, will use Terminator at strategic times now...good ammo there.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's just an example. I'm a sarcastic pain in the ass so I can get away with all sorts of nonsense. If you're not like that, then come up with your own style.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think I can pull of a little T-800 from time to time...

[–]En_sigmaMarried- MRP APPROVED 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

IMHO this is a not-so-subtle reminder that she is in charge. It is similar to the telling you to do things that you were already going to do tactic. And while that may explain it better, any response is in her frame. So like everyone has said, there is no good response because anything you say IN RESPONSE TO HER STATEMENT will be either in her frame or butthurt denial.

I like to flip it on her. I completely ignore her statement and say something like, "Did you wear that shirt so that I could see your nipples? Cuz that is kind of hot." Sometimes the hamster collapses on the wheel and does 3 g-force rotations before it flops out on its back.

Everything is a chance to escalate, if you do it right.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Everything is a chance to escalate, if you do it right.

Well said, keeping this in mind will really help.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR - IRC MOD 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Always be closing.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha...I hear this is Alec Baldwin's voice.

Noted.

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Damn, missed you getting your flair! Congrats

[–]En_sigmaMarried- MRP APPROVED 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks - while I read every day, I post infrequently cuz yall got it covered and the lack of value-added posts makes it hard to spot a flair!

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Picture her thanking you for breathing properly. Weird huh? React like that.

As for the gym, it's a doozy. Set expectations, be an example. The rest is on her. It's like a wife asking how to have their husband man up... You can only lead her to water, she has to want to drink

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dude...that breathing properly actually got a lol from me...

I'm gonna use that little ditty a lot for my mental translations, thanx

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You've got it, it's just the same problem I have new with the new career. Military jargon and corporate jargon are different syntax. You get all the ideas, and just need practice on the specific words and concepts.

After a while, I could see you making up your own, would be like playing a game... How to frame this to tease her, or get the point across that she should step up... Without sounding butt mad. There's tons of stuff ultimatecad Bogeyd6 or bluepillprofessor say in here that I steal wholesale.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm all for stealing ;)

Edit - as long as it's from the best

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

I didn't do them for you, no thanks necessary." Is this just being an asshole,

Maybe. It depends on your relationship. My wife would just roll her eyes and probably start to agree and amplify me if I said that.

getting her to work out

We have not figured this out yet. Dread is not a good tool to use to accomplish her working out, IMHO- but some guys disagree. I think leadership is your tool: Schedule a trainer/fitness class for your wife, take her to the gym with you etc.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

I should've been more forthright, I actually own a CrossFit gym. She has total access. I'm even cool if she doesn't do CrossFit...do pilates, yoga, ANYTHING to get sweaty and stronger.

If I can crack the code, I will share, for sure.

EDIT - Re: Dishes - amplifying/funny business (as others have mentioned) seems to fall in with my nature a little better, thanks for your note.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR - IRC MOD 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

We recommend lifting, not crossfit. I think /u/iratemd says it best when he said "If you are crossfit and vegan, which do you tell people first?".

RPW might have suggestions for her exercise. For you, If you arent squatting at least double your body weight and dead lifting the same. It's time to hit the weights.

To complement /u/bluepillprofessor the best way to get your wife to work out is not to get her to work out. I wouldn't schedule her a trainer or even talk to her about it. Be more subtle in your ways. She feels like she is attractive enough to you. Therefore whats the incentive to become even more attractive. Talking to your wife about this will probably blow up in your face. Not every girl is a gym bunny. If you want a real option, start taking her to social events where all the women are way hotter and fit than she is. If she is the hottest of her friends she probably has the mentality of big fish in a small pond. Take her to the ocean and let her work on her while you work on you. Once she is not the most attractive in a group her hamster will do all the work for you.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Once she is not the most attractive in a group her hamster will do all the work for you.

Dude..solid stuff right there. We need to get out a bit more anyway, it'll be good to find a sexier crowd to be around. We're in LA, so Hollywood should provide plenty of 10's to be around. ;)

As far as the lifting, I can deadlift 2x+ bodyweight, but squatting is another story, between long legs, a hip tweak in highschool and now that I'm in my 40's, that double-bw back squat amy not happen. (The hip tweak makes my entire left leg tingle when I go really heavy, like 350+ on the deadlift). Like someone hit a funny bone in my left leg, not making excuses, just don't want to injure myself) I can squat bodyweight for 20 reps (according to this chart, that puts me at double bodyweight for 1, though the most I've ever done is 275 for 1, cuz the leg). And am going to start working up to Dan John's suggestion of 50 reps back squat with bodyweight. I wouldn't say it sounds like fun, but I think it's more doable than a 370lb back squat. And my body seems to respond a little better to the volume training than the lower rep stuff.

I've actually toyed with getting a membership at the local body builder gym, for less than $15, they have a couple of machines I just don't have room for at my place. Sure I can make it work at my place by jerry-rigging stuff, but sometimes just having different tools is jsut makes shit faster/easier.

Side note - Although a lot of CrossFitters poo-poo body building, I started with Arnold's Encyclopedia when I was a teenager, body builders do amazing shit, and there's a place for everything, even yoga. Even now, when I do a bodybuilder-ish workout, I find, because of the CrossFit stuff, I can go harder/more intense, since my conditioning is really good.

Thanks for the notes and the call-out on the lifting, I'll see if I can up the volume of the body-building/heavy stuff to ramp my shit up a bit more.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR - IRC MOD 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No problem. If you are injured than you do what you can with lifting and treat your body the way you see fit. Going as heavy as you are comfortable with and that's good enough for me. In the gym I go to they have a crossfit class where they power clean 65lbs like 40 times. Ok, thats cool but thats not really relevant for what we expect new people coming here for. A man, for the strength, muscles, and hormones we would rather see you power clean 300lbs for a 5rm. Crossfit creates skinny weak men, not sculpted sexually attractive men. The man building his new life and marriage would be better off at 180lbs and 10%bf than 150lbs and 10%bf.

Superset squats are amazing for a mans ability to gain strength. Another tip would be to take your 10rm and do it for 20 without stopping. That's old school and you are going to need to google it I would presume. Fun? I wouldn't call a superset fun, but it for damn sure is worthwhile.

Edit: I go to a private gym where it's just 10 of us who own it. When I talk about all this progress and doing this or that, I forget sometimes that at LA Fitness you have to wait in a line for equipment. I see you speak from the same view point that I do. Oftentimes I find myself telling people to just go spend 45 minutes in a gym, and then forget that you may only get one piece of equipment in that 45 minutes.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Responded below, but felt I should here as well.

Noted, time for a strength cycle. I've got some volume planned for this week anyway, I'll up the ante. I got through my 3 sets of 20 at 185lbs without puking, so I can push it this week.

I'm down with supersets, it's kinda what CrossFit is anyway, and the faster I can be in & out of the gym, and still push-it, the more time for other stuff. One of my favorites is back squats supersetted with L-pull-ups on the back squat bar when it's racked. Being closer to the ground at the bottom of the pull-up makes you keep your feet higher and makes it harder to cheat the L-sit. Good, grueling stuff.

If I do hit the other local gym, I'll go at off hours, to avoid the lines. I detest them.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

NOOB FOLLOW-UP

start taking her to social events where all the women are way hotter and fit than she is.

On the ride home, when she says either,

"Those girls were _____(superfit, crazy, had big glutes), I think that's too much." I should just keep quiet, yes?

Alternatively, "You seemed pretty flirty with some of those ladies. Do you like that look?, because I don't, I like a dancer's body." -- My intuition says, "I like anyone's body where I can tell they work hard and take pride in how they look & feel."

Just unsure how to escalate without making her feel like she doesn't have to do anything more, you know?

[–]freshona 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

1: Yes, keep quiet. The time when you can A&A, you'll know. For now, keep quiet.

2: "Do you like that look?" Well, do you? I'd say yes, and let her stew on it. Just be prepared for additional crazy woman headed your way. I like your answer too, though again, it opens her up to "Oh, you don't think I work out enough, is that it?".

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm realizing more and more the power of letting her stew on her own. Learning how to harness the hamster grants one great power.

[–]ReddJive 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've done that. Didn't work. She hamsters every reason why she can't.

My wife is just inherently lazy. But time will tell.

[–]il-est-ressusciteFrenchy 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yes it's being an asshole. Do you really need an in-depth strategy to handle your wife thanking you for something? If the appropriate response eludes you in your zeal to "drive your message home" then for Christ's sake, just smile, don't speak.

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

I get it though, he just needs a proper framing. He does them because they need to be done, he just has to own that decision. In that case, it's like thanking him for breathing... Why would you do that?

[–]maxofreddit[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This...thanks both of you...I've been at this for only a short time & every so often just need little reminders from the RP crew here on things that I know aren't quite right, but don't have the longevity/experience to just naturally know what to do. I know it's off, that's why I needed a little nudge/reminder.

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a confidence thing. Keep doing things, you'll get more

[–]il-est-ressusciteFrenchy 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Speaking generally, it's an interpersonal skill that needs "calibrating" (that's a fave right?) That gets lost in the mix of all this somehow.

http://imgur.com/VNp1NgA

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ha ha ha. Learning dank memes, such success!

[–]il-est-ressusciteFrenchy 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Brave new world lol

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now teach me eminent domain lol.

Seriously, some of your business tips helped today. Another interview while I got the other offer in the back pocket.

Doubt they can match the pay, too bad, like that place

[–]il-est-ressusciteFrenchy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol, I hope that doesn't mean that your house is in the way of a planned highway expansion. If it ever comes to pass, here is all you need to know about eminent domain = you're fucked.

On the job, that's a great situation to be in. You never know, they might surprise you. It might be worth taking a slightly lower offer if you wouldn't then have to pay moving expenses (or there were some other benefits you could negotiate that offset the slightly lower salary like more paid time off etc...) Remember, 9 times out of 10 it's still voodoo behind the scenes and the dead can rise lol.

[–]druganswerUnplugging 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

1) Less worrying about it. "ain't no thing" "don't worry about it" etc. so much overthinking here.

2) "I saw this challenge on social media to blah blah blah blah healthy eating"

"I bought us this Groupon for a month of crossfit together"

"We're going to hike through this forest today"

Just assume she wants to do things you enjoy with you. Make plans to do those things.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR - IRC MOD 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Crossfit is not the recommended exercise program. If you are squatting and deadlifting at least 350lbs three times a week, then crossfit till the sun comes up. You have my personal blessing for that. I answered the whole thing about your wife working out in the BPP comment thread.

Your sex life is your responsibility not hers. Coupled with all three questions you really have your complete answer. She knows she is not at your level if what you say is true. Therefore the hamster has shifted to second gear and is really starting to put in the RPM's. Sex should be exciting and fun for both of you. Your job is to make it that way. Time to hit the SGM book and dvd to learn up on how you can do this. Personally I take the DEVI approach and just change it up every few times. You are really hitting low with the E and maybe also the I and she feels that you really just aren't into it.

Question #1, just say thank you. Really there isn't that much to think into it. I would A&A and pull a joke or a tease as well. Just in case she feels like she is validating you, but also to make it so you are fun to be around.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

thanks again,

just to clarify, you guys think I should be repping 350? Are there a lot of 40+ yr old guys that do this who are 6'/185lbs? (If that's the case, I've got some work and eating to do)

I'll look back at the BPP comments, if I'm asking the same fucking question, then I obviously haven't made any fucking changes. Shit.

And yes, I could do better about finding playful ways to constantly escalate. I do find that she responds to it. It's almost a habit for me now, but still have little slip-ups when I'm not on point.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR - IRC MOD 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Slow your hamster down and realize 350 is only a heavy number. Last night I could have wrote 450 but its a generalization. You edited your post to say you do crossfit 4-5 times a week. My intention was to clearly tell you that you should be as strong as you can be before you go and do crossfit.

Yet, before you think your stats hamper you. Know that yes indeed, there are people in their 50-60's here doing that exact thing.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ha!! Note taken...

Time to get back to minimum of 2 plates when squatting.

[–]Redneck001MRP-APPROVED 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

"It makes me feel like you're not happy with our sex life."

You: I hear you saying that you feel I'm not happy with our sex life. What makes you think that?

Her: her answer.

You: Huh!

Then get back to washing dishes.

edit: If that doesn't help you maintain frame, drop something like "If I have a problem with you, I'll address it with you, like an adult." Then STFU.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude...this is so good...it acknowledges & deflects, and doesn't let you get sucked in.

Thanks

[–]KyfhoMyobaMRP Approved -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

"It makes me feel like you're not happy with our sex life."

Anything other than the absolute, brutal, blunt truth is a covert contract.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm realizing this more and more. If it comes up again, I assume it should just be, "I'm not," and stop talking, go do something? Seriously, it helps me to think things out a bit beforehand, it's when I'm going off the cuff that I seem to come out of situations with that twinge of, "that wasn't honest."

This seems very weird/ackward to try to agree/amplify, or joke away. A sarcastic, "Yeah, TOTally satisfied," seems just like stirring the pot for no reason.

Any assistance/exmaple would be awesome, thanks for your own brutal truth.

EDIT - It would also seem that a "list of demands" would be weird as well. It puts the power back in her hands or something. It doesnt' feel right either, but I'm a little at a loss.

Thanks again for prompting a noob.

[–]KyfhoMyobaMRP Approved 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

"list of demands"

this would be an attempt a negotiating desire. When you tell her you're not satisfied, be sure to take ownership and responsibility for that, and that your changes to yourself and your life are your way of rectifying that dissatisfaction.

[–]maxofreddit[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah...that's why it doesn't feel right. And yes the changes I'm making are, but once again, I'm assuming there's no need to mention specifics, since then it about getting her to notice.

A good response would be more along the lines of, "Actually, turns out I'm making changes to our sex life starting today, you better get ready, baby!" or, "I've got a few things in mind."

..or something along those lines? That seems to show ownership but also in a way a little not giving a shit. Once again, any help is appreciated!

Edit - clarity/2nd example