全 97 件のコメント

[–]Clackpot 18ポイント19ポイント  (14子コメント)

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in another sub?

You control your sub; what people do elsewhere is their prerogative and, so long as it conforms to site-wide rules, is entirely outside of your control or influence.

I have no idea of the circumstances so I'm not defending anyone's behaviour but you need to understand where your sphere of influence extends to. Specifically, your rules have no traction whatsoever outside of your own sub, and if someone wants to start their own sub because they don't like your rules, then they can.

[–]dcolt 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

Specifically, your rules have no traction whatsoever outside of your own sub, and if someone wants to start their own sub because they don't like your rules, then they can.

We're fine if they don't like the rules and make their own sub. But what they're doing is to make a sub for the express purpose of undermining what we want /r/relationships to be.

For us, this is the equivalent of someone making a sub expressly to brigade /r/Darby.

[–]MasterLawlz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is this sub undermining anything?

[–]KingRape 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no brigading going on. Mods just love to move the goalposts on what brigading actually is. Making a empty sub with no commentators or subscribers which x singly xposts another subs content isn't brigading, no matter how much you stretch the definition. Fix your stupid easily exploitable rule and perhaps this'll stop.

[–]Clackpot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough, and I suspect you're way ahead of me, in which case you already know that brigading is a big no-no and should be acted on promptly by reddit admins ... which brings us all back round to the beginning :-/

Keep reminding the admins as politely as you can, and provide whatever evidence you can, but beyond that it's out of your hands and you can only wait.

/u/krispykrackers, /u/Deimorz, /u/powerlanguage are you registering this thread? I know this probably isn't your admin area but is there someone on the team you can poke between the ribs?

Again, good luck with this.

[–]redtabooReddit Admin 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm sorry we hadn't responded yet, I just responded to the message regarding this from yesterday morning and am looking into it now.

[–]RememberKoomValley 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you so much. As always, you're totally awesome.

[–]snallygaster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should also look into the ways in which they use bots within reddit's guidelines that undermine other users and subs as well- that is, auto-banning people who crosspost, auto-removing crossposted threads, and auto-removing comments from users they don't like.

[–]snallygaster 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

To be fair, you also stretch the side-wide rules by banning anybody who crossposts and auto-removing the comments of people you disagree with so they don't know that they're 'banned'. You've used the lax site-wide rules for your own benefit; you shouldn't get upset that people who disagree with you are doing the same thing. It's very hypocritical.

[–]MasterLawlz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This won't get a reply I promise you

[–]NinjaNetizen 0ポイント1ポイント  (25子コメント)

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in another sub?

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in an other sub entire website?

Now youre talking about SRS.

[–]Sommiel[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (24子コメント)

The difference being that they cherry pick posts... not a big deal. We remove and lock them.

We remove posts that were xposted because it brings in a bad element as a general rule... with our traffic, no one has time to observe and report brigading.

[–]NinjaNetizen 5ポイント6ポイント  (23子コメント)

Selectively enforcing a recommended rule is also cherry picking.

[–]Sommiel[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, we are pretty even handed about enforcing rules to the best of our ability (like, everything we see).

[–]AyeAyeCaptain -4ポイント-3ポイント  (21子コメント)

You misunderstand. We're not selectively enforcing, we remove and lock all crossposted threads, it doesn't matter which sub it is crossposted too. SRS may only crosspost one or two threads from us a week; that traffic we can handle. This new anti-sub is crossposting every single post in our community and doing it with the sole intention of stifling us.

[–]NinjaNetizen 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Oh. My apologies. That's a totally different story. That's not brigading, that sounds like a scraper bot. Are they advertising themselves as a replacement?

Side note: not entirely sure that's against rules. Wholly unsavory, but nonetheless "legal". Unless they're making money off of it.

e: I still think I'm not getting the gist of your whole story

[–]appropriate-username 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is just a scraper bot, as far as I can tell:

https://www.reddit.com/r/relationshipssucks

It's just a sub to make fun of /r/relationships' policy of removing everything that's crossposted, because it's not really tenable and imo a lazy way to get out of doing mod work.

[–]RememberKoomValley -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nope, it's not as a replacement--it's that we have a no-crossposting rule. When stuff is crossposted, for the safety of OP (say OP's an eighteen-year-old trans girl and her stuff gets posted to a drama sub, or the like) we have to lock and remove it, because when we don't we end up having to pull scores of really foul comments from people who are only there to fuck up OPs's day. It doesn't matter how fast we remove comments or how carefully we mod, that shit is always going to go straight into their inbox first, so we just can't have it.

Knowing our rules, the users who set up the scraper (if that's what it is; the timing on the posts is a little weird, and it's also posting to other subs on occasion) did so with the stated purpose that it was to "stifle" our sub to the point where we had to change the no-crossposting rule so that they could post to drama subs and still get to participate in our sub, and so OP could still post updates.

[–]NinjaNetizen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well then I guess I retract my original statement, though I'll leave it up for posterity.

I'd definitely mail the community managers, if nothing else, they can ban that IP from accessing the API.

[–]MasterLawlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just because your subreddit auto removed crossposts doesn't mean everyone has to care or respect. You're literally asking for non-members to adhere to your community rules. That makes zero sense whatsoever.

[–]snallygaster 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

for the safety of the OP

...is this a joke? Your sub is notorious for dogpiling on people who need help in nearly every thread, and you're worrying about some hypothetical scenario where someone might x-post a single thread to a hate sub? Why don't you focus on the subreddit's notoriously toxic userbase instead of worrying about a scenario that happens rarely at best? And why do you think that banning somebody from the sub will somehow prevent them from crossposting? All they need to do is archive the thread, which takes seconds. If they don't want a ban they can crosspost with an alt. If they don't want to risk a ban then they can pm hurtful messages (which is apparently very common) and you'll never know about it.

This is a terrible justification when /r/relationships is infamous for being one of the most insensitive, most biased big subs and full of users who project their own insecurities onto the posted scenarios and OPs in order to shame people to feel better about themselves.

[–]RememberKoomValley 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Considering how many brigades you have personally been responsible for due to your incessant crossposting, I don't think you really have any place talking here.

[–]nomad1c 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

have you considered not removing and locking all crossposted threads?

[–]RememberKoomValley -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

If there were a way to do that and still protect vulnerable OP's, we'd be all for it. But it doesn't matter how fast we remove comments encouraging suicide, calling OP all sorts of sexist or racist names, encouraging violence, et cetera--it's always going to land in their inbox first. We'd have to sit on these posts refreshing every thirty seconds, and even then we couldn't keep OP, or the community, sufficiently safe.

[–]MasterLawlz -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

Welllllll it looks like you're gonna have to find a different solution then, cause there's nothing stopping anyone from linking all your posts elsewhere just to fuck with you. Looks like you're gonna have to actually, you know, do your jobs as moderators.

[–]RememberKoomValley -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

You guys keep saying that without actually offering any constructive advice. How would you personally protect OP against malicious actions?

[–]MasterLawlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

....remove the comments? Ban the commenters?

Look man this is the internet you can't always prevent people from being mean. Unless you want to set the subreddit to private and/or only approved submitters.

[–]RememberKoomValley 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Again, we can't remove fast enough. It is absolutely not possible, not if we had fifty dedicated mods, because the comments go straight into OP's inbox. And we ban a ton of abusers, but of course Reddit makes it easy to make a new account and be back at it in thirty seconds.

[–]KhristKannon 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The admins most likely will be no help, unless you collect clear evidence of brigading. Extremely hard to see with a sub of your size (near half a million,) and with a human interest/voyueristic draw by it's very nature, as MysticJAC says.

I like to jerk around in these metasubs all damn day long; making dumb jokes, laughing, OMG! gasps, smdhs, etc. I don't brigade, though. No voting, no commenting in the linked thread. I'm sure there are plenty who do, but I firmly believe most don't. We are happy to be in the CCTV relay room and comment there on the show and the peanut gallery. We don't want to get banned or get our subs banned. I think that is what they want, too.

You need to reach out to these people and make a deal. Ask them to do their best to ban brigaders. It's been promised forever that anti-brigading tools are coming, but who knows how soon or effective they will be. When they do, you can document, and hopefully even push back against brigades. If there is a tremendous amout of it, maybe the sub will get deleted. But in the meantime, reach out and negotiate. There is too much of a tradition in the metasphere to think that this one dedicated to your sub warrants exception. This is the way things are done.

You can't delete every post. It would kill you. Making the sub private is a huge task too, and makes it very hard to get new posters. And it would encourage infiltration. Talk with them and see if something can be done to curb brigading.

[–]AyeAyeCaptain 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You make some good points. Thanks.

[–]billyup -1ポイント0ポイント  (48子コメント)

it's hard getting concrete evidence of brigades, when you do the admins will usually do something like suspend the voting users' accounts. they won't necessarily say anything was done, we're left to guess if action was taken. brigaders are aware that what they are doing is against the rules so they do what they can to circumvent detection (it's really not that hard if you know how detection works.)

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in another sub?

no they don't need to. they want to because they're childish. they think they're taking some sort of stand, when in reality they're just angry they can't enforce their own bias.

one of my subs has a sub like you're describing targeting us. dozens of accounts have been suspended because of their posts, but it doesn't stop them. several of them wear the suspensions as a badge of honor, going so far as to praise people for getting suspended. childish.

[–]4ringcircus 3ポイント4ポイント  (22子コメント)

That sounds horrible. Tell me more about this sub you mod. Reddit sucks tbh. What was your sub doing to attract that kind of attention? Absolutely nothing?

[–]billyup -2ポイント-1ポイント  (21子コメント)

/r/gunsarecool we exist therefore we antagonize the gunnitors.

[–]4ringcircus 3ポイント4ポイント  (18子コメント)

How did the sub attract attention in the first place? I don't see why anyone would care about a small sub out of nowhere. I think I remember that sub being banned from SRD awhile back but I forget the details.

[–]billyup -1ポイント0ポイント  (17子コメント)

all gun drama involved grc back in the day and it always flowed back into srd. nowadays we don't go too far out of our way to antagonize anyone. the sub devoted to us is a somewhat recent development.

[–]4ringcircus 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

What sub is currently devoted to you? Some new gun sub? I didn't think there were many.

[–]Buelldozer 7ポイント8ポイント  (10子コメント)

There isn't one.

He claims that /r/shitguncontrollerssay is but it's not. If you go look you'll find that much of the content isn't directed at GRC. Regardless, the purpose of the sub is to expose shit that anti gunners say and simple fact is that GRC says a lot of anti gun shit and so you'll see np links to GRC in that sub fairly often.

Anyway, GRC itself is a large group of trolls that will often pop up in the pro-gun subs to start drama. They'll then retreat to their own sub to cackle and gloat then make sure their mods drop the ban hammer on anyone who doesn't agree with their PoV.

I'm not banned on GRC at this moment (8:34 Mountain) but I'll bet you I am in the next 30 minutes based on my comments here because that's how they, and /u/billup, roll.

Full Disclosure: I am not a mod of either sub nor do I subscribe to either sub. I just happen to know this history of both since I roll in the Pro Gun community here on Reddit.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm not banned on GRC at this moment (8:34 Mountain) but I'll bet you I am in the next 30 minutes based on my comments here because that's how they, and /u/billup , roll.

.... we ban people that break our rules. you haven't broken any rules. i bet you still think the sub was started by someone mad over a BB gun picture.

[–]i_smell_my_poop 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Shit...can you undo my ban, I was banned by mistake apparently:

https://i.imgur.com/M1wioD7.png

[–]billyup 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

so now you're all coming here? you guys sharing links?

[–]billyup 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

/r/shitguncontrollerssay not the best name ever

[–]4ringcircus 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

That is a shit tier name. What you mean you don't venture outside of the sub much now? How was the sub venturing out prior to get attention?

[–]Buelldozer 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

What you mean you don't venture outside of the sub much now? How was the sub venturing out prior to get attention?

GRC used to be very active trolling the pro gun forums. This isn't just my opinion either, you can contact any of the Pro Gun forums and ask them about billy and his gang from GRC.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

i've never went to the progun subs.

[–]billyup 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

we don't go into rprogun and spew politics much because simply disagreeing gets you flaired as a troll. it's a waste of time.

[–]Buelldozer 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/gunsarecool we exist therefore we antagonize the gunnitors.

It's a bit more complicated than that billy and you damn well know it.

You, and your subscribers, we're running around to all the pro-gun reddits starting drama. Then you'd return to your sub to cackle and gloat. To further the rage you make sure to ban anyone who doesn't agree with you.

You were, and to some extent still are, essentially running a sub for trolls.

[–]billyup 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To further the rage you make sure to ban anyone who doesn't agree with you.

we ban rule breakers, if people didn't make brand new accounts to circumvent bans we wouldn't have had to make such strict posting rules.

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                                      [–]MysticJAC 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Just to tack on, we theoretically don't care about crossposts. I mean, we do think it's in bad taste to make entertainment and spectacle of people's very real problems, and we do have concerns about more sensitive people not wishing to post in our subreddit if they are going to be a source of voyeurism to others. However, we're not so naive as to not acknowledge the human interest aspect of our subreddit, nor are we in denial that we are running a public subreddit. The issue is that practically, crossposts to our subreddit ultimately lead to brigades of all kinds. We see influxes of users with no history in our subreddit making comments that aren't in line with our subreddit rules and seek to escalate conflict to have their fun. At a more subtle level though, we see comments receiving upvotes and downvotes not on the basis of their utility to the poster seeking guidance, but on the basis of whether they feed the brigadiers hunger for making jokes or picking fights. They are essentially seeking to subvert the culture and purpose of our subreddit to meet their needs. We understand that there is no stopping the occasional determined troll, but the reddit platform itself shouldn't be used as a tool to allow these trolls to organize and seek to neuter the purpose of other subreddits.

                                      As our subreddit has grown to greater than 450k subscribers, we have taken significant steps over the last two years to minimize the conflict and sources of non-constructive behavior in the subreddit. Even at our size, we still personally warn users of their behavior and tell them about removals, having some lengthy discussions with them as needed. We are doing our due diligence to not simply automate away our troubles, and we are taking the significant time required to try and keep the culture of our subreddit from reaching the point of truly being deserving of ridicule and parody. Though things can and do get taken to extremes in our subreddit, such behavior has become more confined to a handful of posts. But, for most posts, most of the time, people are being constructive, helpful, and compassionate with one another. We are not expecting the admins to fix every issue of culture and rule-breaking we see because as moderators, that's our responsibility to either take fair action against it or accept it as the will of our growing community. However, as internal issues are our problem, we feel it's the responsibility of the admins to make external issues their problem. We just can't see the value or purpose in allowing subreddits that make it their unstated mission to create an environment where their users are tempted to subvert the cultures and purposes of well-meaning subreddits.

                                      [–]hamfast42 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      We had a similar problem and admins were very receptive if asked politely. People who abuse the report button can be detected fairly easily by admins. I'd make sure you have a robust set of automod rules to remove links to the rebellious sub.

                                      My biggest advice is that subs like that thrive on attention so your job is to quietly put out the fire. Don't let them get to you or bait you into drama. Let the admins handle the brigading part and keep them in the loop.