全 47 件のコメント

[–]Clackpot 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in another sub?

You control your sub; what people do elsewhere is their prerogative and, so long as it conforms to site-wide rules, is entirely outside of your control or influence.

I have no idea of the circumstances so I'm not defending anyone's behaviour but you need to understand where your sphere of influence extends to. Specifically, your rules have no traction whatsoever outside of your own sub, and if someone wants to start their own sub because they don't like your rules, then they can.

[–]dcolt 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Specifically, your rules have no traction whatsoever outside of your own sub, and if someone wants to start their own sub because they don't like your rules, then they can.

We're fine if they don't like the rules and make their own sub. But what they're doing is to make a sub for the express purpose of undermining what we want /r/relationships to be.

For us, this is the equivalent of someone making a sub expressly to brigade /r/Darby.

[–]MasterLawlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is this sub undermining anything?

[–]Clackpot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough, and I suspect you're way ahead of me, in which case you already know that brigading is a big no-no and should be acted on promptly by reddit admins ... which brings us all back round to the beginning :-/

Keep reminding the admins as politely as you can, and provide whatever evidence you can, but beyond that it's out of your hands and you can only wait.

/u/krispykrackers, /u/Deimorz, /u/powerlanguage are you registering this thread? I know this probably isn't your admin area but is there someone on the team you can poke between the ribs?

Again, good luck with this.

[–]redtabooReddit Admin 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm sorry we hadn't responded yet, I just responded to the message regarding this from yesterday morning and am looking into it now.

[–]RememberKoomValley 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you so much. As always, you're totally awesome.

[–]MasterLawlz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no brigading. That subreddit has 1 subscriber. You can't shut it down simply because you don't like it.

[–]billyup 4ポイント5ポイント  (24子コメント)

it's hard getting concrete evidence of brigades, when you do the admins will usually do something like suspend the voting users' accounts. they won't necessarily say anything was done, we're left to guess if action was taken. brigaders are aware that what they are doing is against the rules so they do what they can to circumvent detection (it's really not that hard if you know how detection works.)

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in another sub?

no they don't need to. they want to because they're childish. they think they're taking some sort of stand, when in reality they're just angry they can't enforce their own bias.

one of my subs has a sub like you're describing targeting us. dozens of accounts have been suspended because of their posts, but it doesn't stop them. several of them wear the suspensions as a badge of honor, going so far as to praise people for getting suspended. childish.

[–]4ringcircus 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

That sounds horrible. Tell me more about this sub you mod. Reddit sucks tbh. What was your sub doing to attract that kind of attention? Absolutely nothing?

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

/r/gunsarecool we exist therefore we antagonize the gunnitors.

[–]Buelldozer -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/gunsarecool we exist therefore we antagonize the gunnitors.

It's a bit more complicated than that billy and you damn well know it.

You, and your subscribers, we're running around to all the pro-gun reddits starting drama. Then you'd return to your sub to cackle and gloat. To further the rage you make sure to ban anyone who doesn't agree with you.

You were, and to some extent still are, essentially running a sub for trolls.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

To further the rage you make sure to ban anyone who doesn't agree with you.

we ban rule breakers, if people didn't make brand new accounts to circumvent bans we wouldn't have had to make such strict posting rules.

[–]4ringcircus 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

How did the sub attract attention in the first place? I don't see why anyone would care about a small sub out of nowhere. I think I remember that sub being banned from SRD awhile back but I forget the details.

[–]billyup 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

all gun drama involved grc back in the day and it always flowed back into srd. nowadays we don't go too far out of our way to antagonize anyone. the sub devoted to us is a somewhat recent development.

[–]4ringcircus 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

What sub is currently devoted to you? Some new gun sub? I didn't think there were many.

[–]Buelldozer 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

There isn't one.

He claims that /r/shitguncontrollerssay is but it's not. If you go look you'll find that much of the content isn't directed at GRC. Regardless, the purpose of the sub is to expose shit that anti gunners say and simple fact is that GRC says a lot of anti gun shit and so you'll see np links to GRC in that sub fairly often.

Anyway, GRC itself is a large group of trolls that will often pop up in the pro-gun subs to start drama. They'll then retreat to their own sub to cackle and gloat then make sure their mods drop the ban hammer on anyone who doesn't agree with their PoV.

I'm not banned on GRC at this moment (8:34 Mountain) but I'll bet you I am in the next 30 minutes based on my comments here because that's how they, and /u/billup, roll.

Full Disclosure: I am not a mod of either sub nor do I subscribe to either sub. I just happen to know this history of both since I roll in the Pro Gun community here on Reddit.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not banned on GRC at this moment (8:34 Mountain) but I'll bet you I am in the next 30 minutes based on my comments here because that's how they, and /u/billup , roll.

.... we ban people that break our rules. you haven't broken any rules. i bet you still think the sub was started by someone mad over a BB gun picture.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

/r/shitguncontrollerssay not the best name ever

[–]4ringcircus 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

That is a shit tier name. What you mean you don't venture outside of the sub much now? How was the sub venturing out prior to get attention?

[–]Buelldozer 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

What you mean you don't venture outside of the sub much now? How was the sub venturing out prior to get attention?

GRC used to be very active trolling the pro gun forums. This isn't just my opinion either, you can contact any of the Pro Gun forums and ask them about billy and his gang from GRC.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

i've never went to the progun subs.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

we don't go into rprogun and spew politics much because simply disagreeing gets you flaired as a troll. it's a waste of time.

[–]viking1911 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's hard getting concrete evidence of brigades

Yes, whining about brigades is different form actually having evidence.

they want to because they're childish.

How is having a safe space where anyone with an opposing opinion gets banned NOT childish?

one of my subs has a sub like you're describing targeting us.

Typical r/GunsAreCool self victimization. Nobody's "targeting" your precious little hate sub. That post on GrC about Australia's gun confiscation had a "brigaded post" tag even though it is currently 88% upvoted. I linked to that post to two separate subreddits, r/shitguncontrollerssay and r/NOWTTYG and both times my %upvote was lower than 88%. So does that mean I was "brigaded" too? And these were np links too. You're welcome. We talked about this, remember? If you want me to keep using np, you will need to unban me.

but it doesn't stop them.

Looks like you and the other grc mods are going to have to whine extra loud then.

going so far as to praise people for getting suspended.

You mean those brave souls who were unjustly targeted by GrC's witch hunts? May their sacrifice never be forgotten. Truly there are the best of us.

gunnitors

You seem to have no respect for gun owners.

i bet you still think the sub was started by someone mad over a BB gun picture.

Your sub was started by an antigunner with a made up definition of "mass shooting."

simply disagreeing gets you flaired as a troll.

And on r/GunsAreCool, simply disagreeing gets you banned.

[–]CuilRunnings -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

they think they're taking some sort of stand, when in reality they're just angry they can't enforce their own bias.

I think they're angry that childish small minded people are using personal politics and abusing mod powers to silence and censor users in order to enforce their own bias. People generally don't get even 1/10th as dedicated in response to downvoting.

[–]billyup -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

you don't get to dictate how mods wish to run their subreddits no matter how much you bitch and complain.

[–]CuilRunnings 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't want to dictate them, I don't think I should dictate this, nor do I think anyone should. I think moderators should respect their communities, and stop hurting their development by pushing their own personal politics onto the community with mass removals and bans for people who dare to have a different opinion. Did you see the chat log I posted elsewhere? There are some incredibly damaged individuals on the mod staff of /r/relationships.

[–]billyup -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

your idea of "development" isn't the mods' idea of development, you don't get to dictate how the sub is run.

i don't read your posts unless they're posted in a drama thread. and i don't try to assassinate people's characters by spreading bullshit about them.

[–]CuilRunnings 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Moderator of

/r/GunsAreCool
/r/libs
/r/trueguncontrol
/r/MingNaWen
/r/TheTruthAboutGums
/r/voldemort
/r/Repression
/r/GunAreCool
/r/Freedumb
/r/cupcakeForCEO
/r/PornrecommendationsNSFW
/r/the_danald
/r/DylannRoof
/r/SRSFirearms
/r/bLOLner
/r/GunScience
/r/DanaDeLorenzo
/r/grandfathershope
/r/GumTruths
/r/GunVictimsAction
/r/PunsAreCool
/r/billyspeed
/r/CryAboutSJWs
/r/freespeechiscool
/r/gerk
/r/gunsarenice
/r/NGVAC
/r/voldemort       

You sound like a super healthy individual. Try to spend some more time outside, ok? I worry about you.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

more character assassination. do you know how to do anything else but spread bullshit?

[–]CuilRunnings 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bullshit? I'm sorry are you or are you not the mod for those 30 some odd really sad, really really pathetic reactionary subreddits? Did you graduate college? Are you fat? Are you happy with your life? Serious questions.

[–]billyup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's more like 50+. only about 5ish of them are actual subreddit, the rest are for jerking in modmail or just to hold onto the name.

Serious questions.

serious questions, lol you really can't do anything but spread bullshit. i've known this for a while.

[–]MysticJAC 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just to tack on, we theoretically don't care about crossposts. I mean, we do think it's in bad taste to make entertainment and spectacle of people's very real problems, and we do have concerns about more sensitive people not wishing to post in our subreddit if they are going to be a source of voyeurism to others. However, we're not so naive as to not acknowledge the human interest aspect of our subreddit, nor are we in denial that we are running a public subreddit. The issue is that practically, crossposts to our subreddit ultimately lead to brigades of all kinds. We see influxes of users with no history in our subreddit making comments that aren't in line with our subreddit rules and seek to escalate conflict to have their fun. At a more subtle level though, we see comments receiving upvotes and downvotes not on the basis of their utility to the poster seeking guidance, but on the basis of whether they feed the brigadiers hunger for making jokes or picking fights. They are essentially seeking to subvert the culture and purpose of our subreddit to meet their needs. We understand that there is no stopping the occasional determined troll, but the reddit platform itself shouldn't be used as a tool to allow these trolls to organize and seek to neuter the purpose of other subreddits.

As our subreddit has grown to greater than 450k subscribers, we have taken significant steps over the last two years to minimize the conflict and sources of non-constructive behavior in the subreddit. Even at our size, we still personally warn users of their behavior and tell them about removals, having some lengthy discussions with them as needed. We are doing our due diligence to not simply automate away our troubles, and we are taking the significant time required to try and keep the culture of our subreddit from reaching the point of truly being deserving of ridicule and parody. Though things can and do get taken to extremes in our subreddit, such behavior has become more confined to a handful of posts. But, for most posts, most of the time, people are being constructive, helpful, and compassionate with one another. We are not expecting the admins to fix every issue of culture and rule-breaking we see because as moderators, that's our responsibility to either take fair action against it or accept it as the will of our growing community. However, as internal issues are our problem, we feel it's the responsibility of the admins to make external issues their problem. We just can't see the value or purpose in allowing subreddits that make it their unstated mission to create an environment where their users are tempted to subvert the cultures and purposes of well-meaning subreddits.

[–]hamfast42 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We had a similar problem and admins were very receptive if asked politely. People who abuse the report button can be detected fairly easily by admins. I'd make sure you have a robust set of automod rules to remove links to the rebellious sub.

My biggest advice is that subs like that thrive on attention so your job is to quietly put out the fire. Don't let them get to you or bait you into drama. Let the admins handle the brigading part and keep them in the loop.

[–]NinjaNetizen -2ポイント-1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in another sub?

Just because someone thinks we have a bias (in their opinion) do they really need to start an entire subreddit to effectively constrain business as usual in an other sub entire website?

Now youre talking about SRS.

[–]Sommiel[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

The difference being that they cherry pick posts... not a big deal. We remove and lock them.

We remove posts that were xposted because it brings in a bad element as a general rule... with our traffic, no one has time to observe and report brigading.

[–]NinjaNetizen 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Selectively enforcing a recommended rule is also cherry picking.

[–]Sommiel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, we are pretty even handed about enforcing rules to the best of our ability (like, everything we see).

[–]AyeAyeCaptain 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

You misunderstand. We're not selectively enforcing, we remove and lock all crossposted threads, it doesn't matter which sub it is crossposted too. SRS may only crosspost one or two threads from us a week; that traffic we can handle. This new anti-sub is crossposting every single post in our community and doing it with the sole intention of stifling us.

[–]KhristKannon 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The admins most likely will be no help, unless you collect clear evidence of brigading. Extremely hard to see with a sub of your size (near half a million,) and with a human interest/voyueristic draw by it's very nature, as MysticJAC says.

I like to jerk around in these metasubs all damn day long; making dumb jokes, laughing, OMG! gasps, smdhs, etc. I don't brigade, though. No voting, no commenting in the linked thread. I'm sure there are plenty who do, but I firmly believe most don't. We are happy to be in the CCTV relay room and comment there on the show and the peanut gallery. We don't want to get banned or get our subs banned. I think that is what they want, too.

You need to reach out to these people and make a deal. Ask them to do their best to ban brigaders. It's been promised forever that anti-brigading tools are coming, but who knows how soon or effective they will be. When they do, you can document, and hopefully even push back against brigades. If there is a tremendous amout of it, maybe the sub will get deleted. But in the meantime, reach out and negotiate. There is too much of a tradition in the metasphere to think that this one dedicated to your sub warrants exception. This is the way things are done.

You can't delete every post. It would kill you. Making the sub private is a huge task too, and makes it very hard to get new posters. And it would encourage infiltration. Talk with them and see if something can be done to curb brigading.

[–]AyeAyeCaptain 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You make some good points. Thanks.

[–]MasterLawlz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

this new sub has 1 subscriber holy shit the /r/relationships mods are just pussies

[–]NinjaNetizen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh. My apologies. That's a totally different story. That's not brigading, that sounds like a scraper bot. Are they advertising themselves as a replacement?

Side note: not entirely sure that's against rules. Wholly unsavory, but nonetheless "legal". Unless they're making money off of it.

e: I still think I'm not getting the gist of your whole story

[–]MasterLawlz -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You misunderstand. We're not selectively enforcing, we remove and lock all crossposted threads, it doesn't matter which sub it is crossposted too.

That sounds like more of a YOU problem really. Nobody is making you do that. Sounds like a pretty shit system.