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what could possibly go wrong? (imgur.com)

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[–]rodeopenguin 72ポイント73ポイント  (9子コメント)

You could use a better quote from Bernie. I mean we're against corporate welfare too.

[–]jamers89000Economic Means > Political Means 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, but I'm sure his definition of corporate welfare is different than ours.

[–]Maikowski2Right Wing Anarchist 41ポイント42ポイント  (8子コメント)

well memed my friend. But joke's on you. This time gonna be different.

[–]CelestialWalrusAnti-Socialist 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

This time gonna be different.

[citation needed]

[–]monkyyyAnarcho-Capitalist 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

here you go http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/sanders-campaign-makes-its-case-winning-nomination

[–]doorstop_scraper 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's not an argument about how he's any different. It's an argument about how he might actually get into power.

[–]monkyyyAnarcho-Capitalist 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

shhhhhh your forgetting

#feelzoverrealz

#feelthebern

[–]LookingForMySelfI never asked for this. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I though Kissinger told you that looking back at past experience may stop from future did, so you should never look back. Who is Kissinger and who is(sic!) you?(Appeal to authority) /s

[–]lakeyosemit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This time, the good people will be in charge!

[–]SLeazyPolarBear 24ポイント25ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is almost as pathetic as the "possible futures" meme with bernie in front of a technological utopia.

[–]zjat∀oluntaryist 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

Agreed. I don't think Bernie is Hitler and I don't think he's a democratic-techno-savior either.

[–]mrpg_Do mice eat spiders? 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe not Hitler and not a ‘democratic-techno-savior’, but he surely could be Stalin.

[–]cantletthatstand 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think he's Hitler, but I do think he has wet dreams of using the state's power against those who don't comply with his edicts.

[–]TheSelfGoverned中国制造 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it wrong if we only imprison people who earn over $200k/year?*

*: Government employees excluded

[–]Dr_JawaBurn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean. 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meme trash

[–]563967325 13ポイント14ポイント  (14子コメント)

hitler was a fascist. You might as well put mussolini too.

[–]incomplete 18ポイント19ポイント  (7子コメント)

National Socialism, what could that mean?

[–]563967325 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Did the Jews also own the means of production? No. Politicians say what the people want to hear.

[–]incomplete 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not to defend Hitler at all, but you can't ignore the process of building socialism. It does not happen over night. You can not ignore the intention of the rulers trying to change the economic system. Venezuela is trying to be socialist and is doing a piss poor job of it. Do not deny it.

[–]563967325 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do either of us know to what extend workers are controlling Venezuela's means of production? For all we know, the country may be controlled by a mafia trying to make it look like "socialism."

[–]True_KapernicusVoluntaryist 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So he hated Jews as well as 'capitalists'.

[–]563967325 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

May be more like he didn't like the Jews being capitalists and wanted aryans to take their place.

[–]imp20036 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the DPRK is a democratic republic, right?

[–]HhturaProceed not from theory 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitalismVSocialism/comments/4du13e/hitler_was_a_socialist/

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]563967325 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Then why did he exclude Jews from participating in country policy?

    [–]WithTryingColors -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    He was also a socialist. Socialism is a subset of fascism.

    [–]of_ice_and_rockthe pleasure of high tension: goo.gl/GsDagG 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    How many fascist works have you read?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4c2sj0/against_unrestrained_consumerism_in_capitalism/

    I hope you're intelligent enough to realize there are different ways of being anti-capitalist and for different reasons.

    Fascism wasn't a movement against Communism by some accident.

    [–]WithTryingColors -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I haven't read any.

    But we don't seem to have a disagreement here?

    [–]of_ice_and_rockthe pleasure of high tension: goo.gl/GsDagG 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Things can be against bourgeois liberalism while being different from each other, which refutes one being a subset of the other.

    Indeed, fascism's perspective of liberalism is that it will degrade into an even more dissolutive state, like communism.

    [–]annihilus813 20ポイント21ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Do none of you think this goes too far in its depiction of Bernie Sanders as a philosophical brother to genocidal dictators?

    I get that most of you are anti-statists, but are you so pro-capitalism that you'd agree with this disgusting message?

    Are you so convinced that you're right that you're willing to discredit your entire agenda by making this statement?

    Or are you just doing this for the lolz?

    Either way, it's very disturbing.

    [–]Pugs_of_war 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Only a fool judges an entire philosophy by a meme insulting another.

    I, and most people here, are entirely pro capitalism. You won't find many thieves or leeches here. But I guess that's what you're here for.

    [–]annihilus813 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    So being against disgusting generalizations that reduce one political candidate's agenda to that of genocidal dictators makes me against the entire point of this sub?

    Which one of us just mischaracterized this entire sub?

    [–]Pugs_of_war 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You and your buddy have a terrible comprehension problem. Both of you are asking bizarre things that have nothing to do with what they replied to.

    Which one of us just mischaracterized this entire sub?

    The only one that came close to characterizing the sub is you with your first comment. An admission of guilt?

    [–]Anen-o-meConcurrent-Nomocracy: "Rule of the self by the self." 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There no generalization. Bernie's policies, if enacted, would destroy any nation and result in a strong man taking over. If not Bernie himself, then another. Economic law will not be cheated.

    [–]locolarue 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I...what? How do you think socialism got started? How did the USSR and China and so on became socialist? Bernie has never hidden his socialist beliefs. It's a spectrum. It just takes time and it progresses.

    [–]whyohwhydoIbother 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    How did the USSR and China and so on became socialist

    By armed revolution against already totalitarian governments.

    Edit: or by military imposition from outside.

    Excellent and relevant question btw.

    [–]MRB2012 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I...what? How do you think socialism got started? How did the USSR and China and so on became socialist? Bernie has never hidden his socialist beliefs. It's a spectrum. It just takes time and it progresses.

    Bernie has said he wants to hang every Jew in America?

    [–]jakob_roman 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No it doesn't go too far because that is the natural outcome of socialism. Look at Zimbabwe. They violently took farms from the rich and distributed them to the people. They had poor production and tried to stimulate the economy by printing money and created the worst hyperinflation in history. People died because businesses collapsed. Yet president Mugabe blamed capitalism.

    Or look at current Venezuela. Inflating currency, rationed power, toilet paper shortages, food shortages. People are going to die there because of socialism. It's just how math works.

    The thing is, most of these socialists aren't malicious. They're just overwhelmingly stupid to not have learned the consequences of socialism after hundreds of examples.

    [–]WithTryingColors 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If Bernie got everything he wanted, yes, he would be pretty similar to those comparisons. Thankfully, the president never gets everything he wants.

    [–]Onyournrvs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I choose to believe that most people here are savvy enough to realize that the OP is not making the argument that Sander = Hitler. The post is pointing out that Bernie's rhetoric and populism is nearly identical with the rhetoric and populism of those individuals and that the consequence of following through with their vision created the conditions for extremely catastrophic results.

    Many here would argue that Bernie's path ultimately creates an environment where those results could be repeated in the US because the ideological polarization and absolutist mindset of the population would allow for it.

    TL;DR - the US population is particularly susceptible to tolerating extremist behavior and Bernie's style of socialism could very well create the environment for it to flourish.

    [–]adelie42Classy Ancap 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Aren't both forms of Socialism just as bad? It makes me think of listening to people criticize "Trickle Down Economics" (a shorthand for a field that people that use the term never studied, and was used to, once again, justify Socialism of a seemingly modified form); they are against stealing money and giving it to big business, but then advocate for giving the stolen money to a different group of people instead of actually being against the theft.

    Forehead, meet desk.

    [–]sebelly 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This is so incredibly wrong it's not even funny. Communism does not equate to Socialism. Hitler wasn't even socialist. They're economy was predominantly capitalist, which was one of the main differences between Communism and Fascism. Please think for yourselves sheeple.

    [–]cantletthatstand 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They're economy was predominantly capitalists.

    This is laughably and demonstrably false.

    [–]pseudoRndNbrFreedom through War and Victory 2ポイント3ポイント  (27子コメント)

    Hitler didn't end up killing people because of a lack of food. Sure food wasn't available in abundance but to argue against national socialism using Concentration Camps as evidence for a lack of food is utterly ridiculous. Hitler didn't murder his own people.

    [–]akimbocorndogsAnarcho-Capitalist 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hitler didn't murder his own people

    What?

    [–]WithTryingColors 5ポイント6ポイント  (25子コメント)

    Hitler didn't murder his own people.

    ....?

    [–]DeAristoiReactionary 0ポイント1ポイント  (24子コメント)

    Jews are a distinct ethnic group from Germans; how is this controversial?

    [–]WithTryingColors 3ポイント4ポイント  (23子コメント)

    I don't believe Jews should be classified as a race. You're a jew if you practice the religion. Regardless, they were citizens under Hitlers rule, you;re arguing technicalities.

    [–]BumgardnerI'm going to beat up Hoppe 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I don't believe Jews should be classified as a race

    Jew here, that's dumb. Jews are genetically distinguishable from non-Jews, thus race. Even the word "Jew" implies descendant of the tribe of Judah. Just because the word also refers to a practitioner of the religion doesn't make the genetic description less true.

    [–]Falchion37 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Semitic Semantics

    [–]WithTryingColors -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

    How does one identify a jew?

    I love how you chime in that you're a jew, as if that gives you some sort of legitimacy or authority. I'm a jew too, so....

    [–]BumgardnerI'm going to beat up Hoppe 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You goys are so dense...

    You're making a stupid semantic argument. It's not a matter of "identification as a Jew" there are two things that the word means:

    1. Part of the Jewish genetic line
    2. A practitioner of the religion

    DeAristoi clearly means the first of these, and you were like...

    "Nuh uh, my special snowflake definition is the only one that matters."

    [–]WithTryingColors -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    So how do you identify a jew?

    You guys just love your race definition because it makes it easier to discriminate.

    [–]BumgardnerI'm going to beat up Hoppe 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I am an ethnic Jew and you are a religious Jew. (Trans-Jew?) They're two different things.

    What do you mean "you guys?"

    [–]cantletthatstand 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Actually, I think there's an abundance of evidence that races have broadly different value structures and cultures, and that some non-zero amount of those values and cultures is informed by prevailing group genetics.

    I don't think believing in observable fact makes me a racist, because ultimately I don't give a shit what the color of your skin is, I care how much you respect other people's rights, and how much you're willing to contribute to society. If you are unwilling to do either, I'm hard-pressed to see why you should be kept around on the dime of productive citizens.

    [–]bpg609 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    wave a penny under his nose and see if he wakes up

    [–]DeAristoiReactionary 1ポイント2ポイント  (14子コメント)

    They are classified that way by Jews though; Israeli citizenship is conferred based on ancestry. They purposefully make it near impossible to migrate to Israel based on religion alone in order to keep out the Ethiopian Jews.

    I also didn't say race, I said ethnic group - which they clearly are; Ashkenazi Jews.

    [–]WithTryingColors -2ポイント-1ポイント  (13子コメント)

    Well that's just the Jews opinion, man.

    My mother is irish, my father is barbados, I was born in the USA and yet am Jewish. Now what?

    [–]DeAristoiReactionary 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Did you convert? If so, according to Orthodox and conservative Rabbis, you are not Jewish.

    [–]WithTryingColors 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Yes I did. I woke up this morning believing there is one god, that moses is a prophet, and the messiah as yet to rise.

    Well that's just the orthodox rabbis opinion, man.

    [–]DeAristoiReactionary 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Yes, surely you know better than Rabbis who is and isn't Jewish.

    Regardless, Ashkenazis are not Germans and were only considered citizens of the Prussian/German state for less than three generations before Hitler's rise to power.

    [–]TheSelfGoverned中国制造 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Meanwhile at /r/anarchism, /r/socialism, /r/fullcommunism...

    "We need a violent revolution! We need to arrest anyone who disagrees with us, and send them to the gulags!"

    [–]truh 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    /r/fullcommunism is a satire subreddit ... probably.

    [–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

    If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

    [–]souldrone -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That is solid! Excellent meme.

    [–]MDeeMC 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thing is with the National Socialists, their own people enjoyed the most powerful economy at the time. The Germans only started starving once the capitalist powers of the world declared total war on them and bombing their supply lines.

    [–]LOST_TALEGalactic Virtue Supremacist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ''Our impulses that guide our decisions are conveniently in line with our genetic warfare interests!''

    :D

    [–]ferroz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    bbbbutttttt SOCIALISMZ HAS NEVER BEEEN TRIED!!!!!!!!

    [–]of_ice_and_rockthe pleasure of high tension: goo.gl/GsDagG -4ポイント-3ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Hitler didn't genocide his own people.

    [–]annihilus813 12ポイント13ポイント  (16子コメント)

    You're right. None of those Jews (etc.) were Germans. Do you actually believe the bullshit that comes out of your mouth?

    [–]Jumbotron9001 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

    As a Jewish dude who likes the general ideas of this movement, the number of neo-Nazis I see in this subreddit (and a lot of ancap/libertarian places I look) is a bit scary, tbh.

    [–]bartoksiccan't stop the signal 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Eh, it's just these NRX kids. Recently, they get kicked out of their own racist subs and come dick around over here. Just down vote and ignore.

    [–]of_ice_and_rockthe pleasure of high tension: goo.gl/GsDagG 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Impeccable journalism.

    [–]westsidazrhidaz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    yep they've been hanging around here lately, it didn't use to be that bad.

    Although in this case this guy has been around for a while.

    edit:added to it

    [–]FEDORA_SWAG_BROFriedrich Nietzsche 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Biologically he didn't. Jews were just unwanted, subversive guests in Germany.

    [–]TheSickFlux -1ポイント0ポイント  (12子コメント)

    More government spending and social justice policies is not socialism, I don't understand how more people don't realize this. Socialism is explicitly worker control over the means of production and the abolition of private property. Sanders obviously advocates for none of these. Can we at least use correct definitions when trying to make a point instead of stooping to their level and making shitty strawmen?

    [–]cantletthatstand 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    More government spending and social justice policies is not socialism, I don't understand how more people don't realize this.

    I disagree. It's diet socialism, ultimately just a lesser attempt of the same thing. Also, I don't think a guy who marched with the Sandinistas is "just a Democratic socialist," thanks.

    Socialism is explicitly worker control over the means of production...

    And historically, the way that that has been accomplished has been with the state functioning as a proxy for the workers. You're just being long-winded in your "It wasn't REAL socialism!" argument. If that wasn't real socialism, then this isn't real capitalism.

    Also, please. When I invent a time machine, we'll put off the "Kill Hitler" obligation do you can go tell Lenin and Trotsky that they weren't real socialists. Then we'll come back, and I'll drive you to the hospital for your black eye.

    ...and the abolition of private property. Sanders obviously advocates for none of these.

    Of course not. You have to get elected before you can show your true colors.

    Can we at least use correct definitions when trying to make a point instead of stooping to their level and making shitty strawmen?

    Can we use real historical examples of what people who used the same damn rhetoric actually did?

    [–]WithTryingColors -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What you're describing is communism. Socialism is simply state-sponsored redistribution of wealth.

    [–]TheSickFlux 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society.

    Does it ever actually manifest in this way? No, of course not. But that is the proper definition we should be working with.

    [–]ArchimedeanGovernment is satan 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Shut up retard, progressive income taxation is part of Marx's philosophy.

    [–]TheSickFlux 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Money doesn't exist under Marx's philosophy.

    [–]ArchimedeanGovernment is satan 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Then how could he ask for progressive income taxation if money doesnt exist retard? Check......mate......

    [–]TheSickFlux 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Under Marxism, money doesn't exist.

    His point about a progressive income tax is merely a suggestion for what changes could be made to the current political reality to make it more friendly to the wants and needs of the proletariat.

    The two principles are applied to totally different things.

    [–]CoffeeDimeLibertarian Socialist -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

    This whole sub is a goldmine for /r/badpolitics. I do not think they will see that there are tremendous differences between each of those people quoted.

    Simply:

    Fascism is not socialism in any sense.

    Venezuela is an authoritarian government that is completely undemocratic and unsocialist (no workers running their industries). But it is happening to some degree when the state is not involved.

    Sanders is a social democrat and advocates good social programs run using taxes on capitalist industry, but this is still capitalist.

    I myself do not know much about Vietnam, but I am already sure the communists will disagree with the anarchists. It seems that people here do not see that there can be different political interpretations, and that political ideologies cannot be summed up with generalizations.

    [–]TestOfCourageSecessionist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Venezuela is an authoritarian government that is completely undemocratic and unsocialist (no workers running their industries). But it is happening to some degree when the state is not involved.

    /u/Anarkhon your thoughts on this?

    Also, this might interest you.

    [–]CoffeeDimeLibertarian Socialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's a discussion worth having. Even if it is semantic, the best we can do is find some common ground. I am familiar with /u/Anarkon as I go on /r/CapitalismVSocialism here and there.

    I am more than happy for you guys to share your thoughts :)

    [–]dezrambson -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    How do you account for democratic socialist countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Finland?

    [–]themetalfriend[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    They are not socialist by any measure.

    [–]dezrambson 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Then neither is Bernie.