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/r/ALLA picture taken in Afghanistan vs. what it currently looks like today. (imgur.com)

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[–]123instantname 11ポイント12ポイント  (40子コメント)

Afghanistan used to be really progressive and modern.

http://www.barnorama.com/afghanistan-1970s/

Then the Mujaheddin started making it a shithole... and when the Soviets intervened, the western powers made it look as if the Soviets were in the wrong. So the Soviets pull out and it's what it is today.

[–]j00cy 51ポイント52ポイント  (24子コメント)

i am afghan and there is so much wrong with this post

yes afghanistan used to be progressive and modern in the 70s. after this point youre 100% full of shit.

in 1978 the fucking soviet-backed communist party overthrew the secular government of Daoud Khan and started murdering the fuck out of afghan citizens. anyone who spoke against communism had government soilders sent to his house and was taken prisoner.

obviously afghans were not going to stand for that shit and so the mujahideen, which were originally almost entirely made up of pissed off afghan citizens, were formed to fight against the government.

the soviets intervened because their puppets were getting assassinated one by one and needed to maintain control since the us had control over iran (at the time) and pakistan.

since the soviets were dickhead communists, they continued the afghan government's reign of terror and started murdering afghans indiscriminately to defeat the mujahideen. obviously it made things worse, as the whole world began to sympathize with afghans getting bullied by a bunch of assholes.

after the commies were sent home, before anything could happen, before government could form, the pakistani-backed taliban swooped in, and allied with the pakistani-backed faction of the mujahideen (over the years the mujahideen grew into several factions), and ruined everything. they murdered anyone who was not an adherent to their bullshit interpretation of islam that was developed from extremist schools in pakistan.

since the soviets withdrew, the US had no reason to continue funding the mujahideen. so, the mujahideen were left to fight the taliban. but the mujahideen had no support, while the taliban were funded by the pakistani government (after the soviets left the US couldnt care less about what pakistan did). so the taliban quickly gained control over almost all of afghanistan. it was only until 9/11 happened that the US decided to stop them

so no it wasnt the mujahideen making the country a shithole, the mujahideen fought over a decade of war with communists followed by over a decade of war with islamic extremists

sorry for swearing but i really hate when people who know nothing about my country's history make claims about my country's history

tldr: fuck commies, fuck the taliban, fuck the pakistani government

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 8ポイント9ポイント  (12子コメント)

It kind of sucks that people still buy into Soviet propaganda from the cold war. Them dicks use to fly gunships over villages and just shoot anything that moved and left massive minefields that are still causing problems today.

[–]DermottBanana 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

The Soviets were hardly alone in that sort of behaviour though. The British, the Americans, the Belgians, the Germans, the French, the Portuguese. They've all done pretty much the same thing within the last century.

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

What the hell are you on about? when did the British, Germans, French, Portuguese, and Americans fly helicopter gunships thru the villages of Afghanistan with the soul intent of killing as many civilians as possible then proceed to lay massive mine fields to prevent the city's and villages from being able to travel/trade?

Or are you takeing this to some illogical extreme to try and defend and justify the attempted genocide by the Soviets? You can go right to hell if you think anything justified the shit they did to those people. It blows my mind that people come out of the woodwork to defend a government that no longer exists.

[–]jarde 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

The US did pretty much that or worse to Laos and Cambodia.

The US did 580,000 bombing missions to Laos alone. Over 50 people die every year because of bombs that were dropped before they were born.

Now you could say that present time US governements aren't responsible, but they sure as hell don't come in and clean the mess for one the poorest countries in the world.

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The fuck does Laos and Cambodia have to do with Afghanistan?

  • also as for your whole the US does nothing to clean up poor country's in 2014 the US spent 12 million cleaning UXO in Loas.

[–]jarde 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

They've on average spent around 3m per year since the mid 90s.

Which along with other help has managed to clear less than 1% of bombs dropped every year. The "help" is a fucking joke. 3m or 12m is absolutely fucking nothing. 2.5m is the cost of one air strike against ISIS.

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, you are fine with the Soviet union killing uncountable civilians in an attempt to create a communist state because the united states has only spent 74 million cleaning up a 40 year old war zone? how the hell does that logic work?

[–]DermottBanana 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He who does not learn from history is destined to look a pillock when engaging in a discussion about it....

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, in a thread about Afghanistan in a comment thread about Afghanistan somehow Laos and Cambodia are relevant? no its changing the subject; worse its trying to defend mass, intentional killing of civilians. that's some sick horse shit.

[–]DermottBanana -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your reading comprehension chip needs rebooting

[–]jvnk 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Um, no. There is no concept of collateral damage within Soviet(and now Russian, see Syria) military doctrine. Contrast with the ISAF invasion from 2001 onwards, it's the complete opposite. Talk to people who served there. It was routine to have Taliban sighted in to be fired on, only to have no permission given because they were afraid of innocent casualties. There are exceptions to this, of course. But the Soviet tactics were essentially to kill virtually everything that moved in the direction they were shot at from.

[–]DermottBanana -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Um, yes.

Nothing you wrote contradicts my statement.

[–]zarbeghazi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

After its conduct in Bangladesh's independence, there is nothing more shameful in my country's history than its political intrigues in Afghanistan. The chief architects being Benazir Bhutto and the JUI who effectively created and backed the Taliban systematically through state apparatus.

It is disgraceful. I wish Afghanistan the brightest future inshallah because the present is so grim.

[–]Logan_Mac -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

the whole world began to sympathize with afghans getting bullied by a bunch of assholes.

That perception surely has nothing to do with the Cold War propaganda machine. Back then the muhajideen were fighting commies, which were enemies of the US, so that means good.

[–]j00cy 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

  1. the soviet-backed communist party overthrew the secular government of afghanistan in a violent coup d etat

  2. the new soviet-backed communist government arrested, imprisoned or executed anyone who protested against communism

  3. afghan citizens had no choice but to accept oppression, flee the country or fight back. many, many fled, including my parents. those who chose to fight back formed the group known as the mujahideen

  4. the mujahideen, funded by US through pakistan, significantly weakened the control of the communist government. this caused to the soviets to invade afghanistan (technically the government asked the soviets to come) in order to regain control

  5. the guerilla tactics of the mujahideen were so successful that the soviets resorted to killing civilians in order to terrorize the afghans into submission

what did afghanistan ever do to the soviet union?

what justified funding the communist party to murder the family of the president and take over the country?

what justified invading the country after the citizens themselves almost retook the power of their own country?

what justified killing non combatants in an effort to punish those who did not welcome their oppressors?

the bottom line is that the soviets invaded a country and killed innocent citizens to gain control over said country. this is not based on cold war propaganda, this is fact. afghanistan was just a pawn on the grand chessboard of the cold war between the soviet union and the US.

afghanistan and its people have been ravaged by the two biggest enemies of the west, communism and islamic extremism, for nearly 40 years now. why? what did the afghans do to deserve the war and terror of the last 40 years? we cant change the past but please dont imply that any sympathy it gets is based on lies and propaganda and is undeserved

[–]DermottBanana -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

The Soviets were invited into Afghanistan by the Afghan government

That might not sit with your imagined narrative. But it is the historical one

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

If by "invited by the Afghanistan government you mean coerced the Afghanistan government by holding a gun to their head.

Man, you must believe the Soviet Union was a land of plenty where everyone had a car and markets where full of food, no photos where ever altered and every release by their government was 100% true.

Holy shit man, this was the government that invented large scale propaganda, and you are takeing their word as gold.

[–]DermottBanana -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am not taking the word of the Soviet government. It is a matter of historical record. That the historical reality does not match your world view does not alter what happened

[–]heartbleedtookmyacct 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

a "historical record" made by the same party that would remove people from photos to "prove" they where not involved with the party.

[–]j00cy 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

the afghan government at the time was the People's Democratic Part of Afghanistan which was the soviet-backed communist party.

so its quite obvious that when the afghan citizens fight back to retake control of their own country (since the communist party violently seized power of the government and was killing afghans for protesting against them), they would turn to their puppet-masters to help them

so, while the government did ask for soviet intervention, the government did not represent the citizens, and so to the ordinary afghan citizen, and to the anyone who looks into the full context, the soviet intervention was an invasion

[–]DermottBanana 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You realise, I presume, that the same situation you are describing - a weak government inviting a friendly superpower's troops to enter the country to prop up its regime - is why the US is presently in Afghanistan?

That you do not like the Soviets does not change the reality - the Afghan government invited them in. It was no more an invasion than the Americans in South Vietnam, or the Glorious Revolution in Britain

[–]j00cy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

the difference is that the communist government seized power through a coup. they did not represent the citizens and they did not have legitimacy in the eyes of the citizens.

so a puppet party that takes control by force, then calls for the help of its patron to maintain that control, still counts as an invasion. its not me or you who defines it, but the citizens of the nation who do

the point is that the true invasion was by the communist puppet party. the soviet "invasion" was just reinforcements

[–]gordo65 74ポイント75ポイント  (7子コメント)

Afghanistan used to be really progressive and modern.

That's such bullshit. Afghanistan has always been a backwater. Parts of Kabul were progressive and modern once upon a time.

when the Soviets intervened, the western powers made it look as if the Soviets were in the wrong.

Well, they did invade a country, completely unprovoked, which started a conflict that has still not really been resolved. I'd say they were as wrong in Afghanistan as Bush was in Iraq 25 years later.

[–]DermottBanana 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

they did invade a country, completely unprovoked

You mean "when the Afghan government requested Soviet assistance, the Soviets obliged"

In much the same way that the Americans were invited into South Vietnam. Or the Germans were invited into Prague.

[–]irreverentewok 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

A Soviet puppet government "asked" for an invasion, there were only token numbers prior.

[–]Xeronian 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

But it wasn't as if the Soviets wouldn't have done it without the request eventually anyways. It was a radical pro-Soviet government and important to the USSR's sphere of influence in the region. Kind like how Syria requested Russia's aid, but it's self serving as there's quite a few Russian military installations in Syira.

[–]DermottBanana 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

History isn't what might have happened

[–]Xeronian 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The line between "asked for help" and "were told to ask for help" is a little blurry in this case.

[–]DermottBanana 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's blurry in almost every case

That's why I cited the examples I did

[–]loserlame -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

But weren't the Americans invited into Vietnam by the French colonialists?

[–]meepmeepmeepmeepmeed 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Where the fuck did you go to school?

[–]sashathegrey95 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

The picture of bin laden at 15 is taken in Sweden.

[–]_UnorigionalUsername 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The soviets tortured my uncle and ran people over with tanks...they were in the wrong.

[–]sh0ch 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is fucking depressing

[–]EmeraldIbis -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn, they even had blonde porn stars sitting around naked?

Edit: It case people think I'm crazy - when viewed on mobile there are porn adverts interspersed among the photos.

[–]Steven054 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wonder if the Mujahideen hadn't been such dicks, if the middle east wouldn't be the shit hole it is today.

[–]j00cy 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

the mujahideen were the only people fighting the commies in afghanistan. after the soviets left, the pakistani-backed faction of the mujahideen allied with the taliban (which originated and is backed by pakistan) and tried to take over afghanistan. the rest of the mujahideen were the only people fighting them until the americans came after 9/11

so the mujahideen fought over a decade of war with communists followed by over a decade of war with islamic extremists. you would think that westerners would be able to appreciate that. without them afghanistan would be far worse