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I'm going to look at the positives... (self.reddevils)

tarakul が 投稿

The media narrative of our season has been awful. Arsenal melt down, City are rubbish without Kompany or De Bruyne and Lecister and Spurs given then traditional top 4 a lesson...yet you'd think Man United and LVG had been murdering kittens.

Let's get it out the way: Yes we've had some bad results Yes we should score more Yes sometimes our performances make me die a little inside

BUT.....are we really that far of from challenging?

*We are top of table on home form and only let in 7 goals. #fortress

*We are top 5 best defence in all of Europe for clean sheets.

*In a still transitional season we had to cope with 18 first team injuries...twice for our captain, Luke Shaw gone....Valencia out....these weren't trivial players. What are City without Kompany and De Bruyne? Yet we have coped admirably.

*Yet we are in shout with trophy and top 4

*And in amongst all this we found academy stars in Verela, Bojack, TIMBO and Rashford while Martial was a sensation.

*Even Memphis at 21 has had a better season than Ronaldo did in his first season.

I'm optimistic we will crack the away team park the bus problem....and then????

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[–]doesnt_like_pantsHerrera 23ポイント24ポイント  (5子コメント)

I agree with you there are positives. Considering all the injuries I don't think our results have been that bad and I think LvG has coped pretty well.

What no one can excuse and what we can't overlook is the dire football we play. It's a borefest half the time and that's not what this club is about. It's the ultimate negative right there smacking you square in the face when this will be our lowest scoring season in Prem history.

[–]tartanbornandred 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would it not be fair to say that it is entirely likely that the dire football is a direct result of having to cope with the challenges mentioned; being in transition, new personnel, key injuries, abundant injuries.

From the players signed and brought through it doesn't look like van Gaal aspires to play shit football, but we haven't yet realised his vision.

[–]FeezbullGiggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What no one can excuse and what we can't overlook is the dire football we play. It's a borefest half the time and that's not what this club is about. It's the ultimate negative right there smacking you square in the face when this will be our lowest scoring season in Prem history.

I can look past that if we actually look like we know what we're doing. We don't half the time. Teams defend deep? We look more lost than Atlantis could look. We just do the same thing over and over again and hope teams get caught out. They don't. They've learnt we don't make runs in behind. We don't make off the ball movements enough. Don't pass quickly enough. Always the safe option. So why chase? Sit back and we are screwed. All the damn time.

After simulating opponent play every single time for that matter. For 2 seasons. And we still can't figure out a way around this properly. Or how to actually even be a possession based team. For a possession team, we are diabolically shit when pressed- we pass like amateurs who've never kicked a ball successfully to a teammate before. That's how poor we can become when pressed even remotely competently by an opposing team and setup.

What do we do? Boot the ball away. Lump it up. Lose the ball. Get ball... Get pressured. Lose it. Repeat. Do nothing else. "Oh we dominated the game and limited their chances" nonsense comes up then.

Ok we don't have the players technically good enough to play it around when pressured. But really? Who's fault is that? With an unlimited budget and 2 full windows we still can't get even half the players for it? Because everybody boots it away. And we can't even tweak it slightly to adjust? After 2 seasons? Right...

Those are one of the biggest problems to me. Tweak the damn system to accommodate the players you face and have so it becomes more effective and better. Don't just leave it stagnant and worse.

[–]ScotsmaniaSmaldini 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

The other big teams having a shite season is making us look better in terms of points than we deserve.

[–]ThunderPreacha -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

That doesn't say something about the over all level in the PL? And doesn't that make the ranking still deserved?

[–]TanqPhilWoodward! -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

And yet, we are top against the top half of the league.and at home. Maybe the issue is we don't have enough DEVELOPED depth to substitute well against lower teams...something we are correcting with blooding young players.

LVG was hired to lay a foundation, not to win titles. That is his successors job.

[–]clayzerg#17 Blind 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What you point out is in all fairness correct, but here comes a huge BUT:

Our gameplan and playstyle is negative and produce lesser and lesser goals/chances. Yes our defensive structure is good but we lack excitement in the final third. That excitement part is why so many support Man Utd. We played 442 and bombed forward and made high scoring games, several times every month. The OT really was a place to be entertained. Not saying we won every game 4-3, but you get my point.

All that's gone now, and we're left with 4-2-3-1 (for the most games) with a subpar winger being used as a no.10 (Lingard), a creative luxury no.10 being used on the wing (Mata) and a broccoli in defensive midfield. Surely you can't dominate your opponents with 4-5 players out of position every game.

Bad, negative tactics 90% of the games, irrational substitutes 70% of the time.

It's not fucking exciting but it's not fucking hopeless either, but after Man Utd standard it's kind of a grim season.

Most of us wanted LvG to succeed because he offers a arrogant, take no shit attitude that's needed at a top club and hilarious press conf, but he simply hasn't adapted when times have been tough.

People seem to forget the positives when it's going bad, and the negatives when it's going great. But that's reactionary fans for yah.

[–]StannisJrScholesy 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

are we really that far of from challenging

Well, yes. Past it manager, Europa league level squad, a team that is struggling to score goals. Defence doesn't mean shit if you can't score goals and aren't finishing games off.

I'm optimistic we will crack the away team park the bus problem....and then????

We haven't been able to for two seasons, what makes you think our third season will be any different?

[–]FeezbullGiggs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No but... We are still in transition. That takes time. 2 seasons of simulating opposition play isn't enough to work through it. 2 seasons of simulating opponents isn't enough to make us not pass like shit when pressed. Nope.

Clearly, we need more creativity too as it's been said all the time........

1 more year isn't sufficient. We need to think longer term..........

[–]DuceHMata 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Arsenal melt down, City are rubbish

And yet they are still higher up the table than we are.

[–]goodguy1994it's Rooneyyy, it's inevitable. some things are meant to be 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, but we had two separate injury crisis'. One in December and one in March.

[–]DuceHMata -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not like City have been without their injuries, the post even mentions them.

[–]BobTheBanterBlind 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ours has been bigger, longer, and more extensive though, Imagine where they would be when they lost Kompany early on in the season to a broken leg.

[–]Zvcx 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can't compare luke Shaw to kompany.

They've had silva, aguero, kompany, de bruyne all out for long periods

[–]goodguy1994it's Rooneyyy, it's inevitable. some things are meant to be 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We've had Rooney, Valencia, Shaw, Young, Schweini, rojo out for long periods and not to mention the niggling injuries to Herrera, Memphis, Darmian etc.

[–]LiamRS24 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The players that are part of the injury crisis are mainly well known for being injury prone with a few exceptions. Yet we sold a lot of players we could have used and didn't strengthen areas we knew needed to be strengthened. But all praise LVG for his masterplan to bring the youth through eh?

[–]ElRektless 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

These shitposts always comes after we manage to win vs a low table team. Palace is at 16th place ffs.

[–]StathamIsYourSaviorRafael 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I'd wait until the end of the season before making these comments. This season has completely killed my optimism.

[–]vmcg105 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes there are positives, but we are 14 points of Leicester City and will likely miss out on the CL and that just isn't good enough. Also we a due our usual meltdown after winning a few games so no doubt we won't turn up against Everton on Saturday.

[–]LiamRS24 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

BUT.....are we really that far of from challenging?

yes, we are miles away. It's easy to have some of the stats you've stated when you play boring and defensive football. We've had the odd few decent performances but no one in the league is afraid to play us anymore because we're predictable.

[–]buckfasterLittle Pea 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The big teams having an awful season is papering over the cracks here. Who would have seen Chelsea being where they are or City not challenging?

Its not the popular thing to say, but Leicester being where they are is more about how bad the league is this year than how good they've been.

Our dismal display when it was put up to us in the Champions league is more of an indication of how the season went than anything else in my opinion.

[–]wdtpw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its not the popular thing to say, but Leicester being where they are is more about how bad the league is this year than how good they've been.

This is very much the popular thing to say - at least on this board.

[–]G_Morgan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A lot of our frustration comes from the positives. I think we all believe the team is better than has been shown (while also accepting that better means 2nd/3rd and not champions).

[–]yiyiyiyiHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Memphis has not had a better debut season than Ronaldo.

[–]daveorManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're not far off a title challenge due to the PL currently being a fairly even playing field - I think this summer is one of the most important we've had for a long, long time.
I'm slightly worried that our defensive ability (and amount of clean sheets) is more down to our safe football opposed to the quality of our defence. Time will tell.

[–]Worst_smurf_NAFergie's hairdryer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As good as Leicester and Spurs have been, the fact is we're not that far behind them. A really quality United side would've/could've/should've won the title this year. Absent all our injuries, we might've; who knows.

However, the football we've played all year has been so intensely boring that it's hard to imagine it being much different even if everyone were healthy. Yes, losing Shaw kind of changed our dynamic and width, but there's no excuse for the type of performances we've seen at times this season

Bottom line, the quality in the final 1/2 and final 1/3 has been severely lacking. Even from players like Martial and Rashford, who have been insanely bright but still have a lot to learn. I expected a lot more this season from Memphis and Mata, and Lingard is just flat out not good enough to be in the United XI.

With a proper RW, more consistent play from #10, and a CB we can pair with Smalling to dominate, we'd be well on our way to having quality in the XI to dominate again.

Get Laporte (injured) or Marquinhos to pair with Smalling, get Luke Shaw back at LB, bring in James Rodriguez at 10 and drop Rooney deeper or bring in Sanches from Benfica and keep Rooney at 10, then bring in someone like Lucas, Reus, Bale to play RW.

Start with those 3 positions. It won't be cheap and it won't be easy, but we're Manchester United; there's no reason we can't attract quality players, and there's no reason we shouldn't challenge for the title next season.

[–]Plonkerface4 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Next season City will be a lot better, Chelsea will no doubt be stronger, Spurs will kick on due to their young players being that bit more experienced. We are in a do or die situation and the performance levels wouldn't give you much confidence in the former. There is only so much that can be done in a transfer market and I think we still have an awful lot to do in terms of transfers. Then you have to integrate those new transfers ect ect. We may have to settle for 5th this season and unfortunately maybe next also.

[–]bonartist90 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is all true, but I'm most worried about Liverpool. Klopp has them flying at the moment

[–]mu_37Schneiderlin 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

i kinda agree with the media point,and yes there are positives in this season,but at the end of the day the team has regressed under LVG and that's just a fact.we don't just need to score more goals,we have our worst record in decades,and that's not the same thing IMO.

we were more or less comfortable in finishing top4 last season and now we have to fight for it with our lives.that's not how progress works,that's how you become Arsenal

and let's not just ignore what happened in Europe.what is even the point of getting top4 if this is how we're gonna play?

finally i get we had a lot of injuries,but first i would argue the injuries last season were much much worse and we still had a better season,and second:LVG is the one who emptied the bench so he can give chance to youth,and that's all well and good but it's not the point.literley any manager can play youth,it's the ability to play them and get results that matters

[–]BobTheBanterBlind -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Last season we didnt have the huge amount of injuries we have had of (critical) players IIRC. So its not that weird that we would struggle a bit more this season. Also every top flight team has been struggling this year. The only two top flight teams are right above us (city and arse) with 2 points and 1 point (with a game in hand) respectively.

This season has seen very large upsets, but I believe point wise we arent doing all that bad when looking at traditional top flight teams. I think the biggest problem is that people are bored by our games, if our games were entertaining the media would be breaking down on teams such as Liverpool and Chelsea (7th and 10th!). And I am also sure there would be substaintially less people on here calling for LvG's head on a plate

[–]mu_37Schneiderlin -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

does other big teams having a bad season(3 of them sacked their managers btw) excuse our bad season in anyway?

[–]BobTheBanterBlind -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

It does for me for several reasons. 1) You mention us finishing comfortably top 4 last season, Chelsea finished 1st, IIRC didnt have massive tranfers in or out this summer, and even since changing their manager are still way below where their squad should be imo. Same for Liverpool, brought in Klopp and also only made up a few places I think. We have been around top 4 the whole season with the exception of December. 2) In my opinion it also show cases that the League might have gotten more difficult to compete in 3) None of those are having such a hard with the media as us/LvG, at least in Dutch media. Whenever I see an article about Chelsea Hiddink receive nothing but praise, same with Klopp, but most of the articles I see coming by about LvG/Man U are cynical if not downright insulting. (Might be because I live in Holland and mainly follow Dutch media outlets such as nu.nl though).

So no it does not excuse that we are having a bad season, however it does bring in a perspective that I feel a lot of people are forgetting. Besides that we had two injury crises, are still rebuilding a team, and LvG has mentioned several times Woodward did not get him (all) the players he wanted

[–]mu_37Schneiderlin -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

well there's the big difference in how we see things this season,call me crazy but i don't believe the league got harder this season one bit.nor do i take any consultation in the fact that our rivals are shit too.as for injuries like i said he might not got every player he wanted but he sure is the one who emptied the bench for youth,which just didn't work out at in terms of results.

[–]BobTheBanterBlind 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aye we seem to have different opinions, but hi thats likely to happen anyways in life right. As for emptying the bench, yes some of those players could have helped right now, but at the same time a fair few were also dead wood. And the injury crises we have had this season were impossible to predict imo

[–]YoungPappy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tmw you are so brainwashed by LVG that you are ok with challeging for 4th while you are supposed to be one of the biggest clubs in the world

[–]MUFCOK -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The guy is only trying to point out the positives, in which he has a very good point and the usual's turn it into a LVG bashing thread. Embarrassingly boring.

We get it, bad season... Need a new manager .... blah blah blah

There is only 5 games left in the league and a possible extra 2 (in case of a reply in the SF)

You can go back to supporting United in the summer then if LVG goes!

Now go start another thread about how LVG needs to go and we need Mourinho (the man who openly states he learned everything he knows from LVG)

Spoiled rotten for 25 years

[–]ttknsfw 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

No replay in semi final

[–]MUFCOK -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No? there used to be didn't there?

Well there ya go then, one less game the LVG bashers have to endure

[–]SuperfyVan Persie 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And what, one less game for the LvG apologists to come up with more garbage to pad his piss poor tenure?

[–]FeezbullGiggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now go start another thread about how LVG needs to go and we need Mourinho (the man who openly states he learned everything he knows from LVG)

And how's that relevant? He's still a much better manager than LvG in terms of the last 5 years even.

Learning everything from someone doesn't make that person that good. It just means he was good then and relevant then. End of story.

A doctor could claim he learnt everything from his professor 10 years ago but it means nothing when that professor hasn't progressed one bit nor changed his ideas in modern medicine while his protege learnt a lot more and developed new treatment protocols since then.

[–]ashkjassal -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

*Even Memphis at 21 has had a better season than Ronaldo did in his first season.

huh? in what way?

If it's shitty selected stats it doesn't matter because if that's the case it's clutching at straws. Ronaldo lit up OT in his first season when we needed a spark after Becks leaving, he was raw but we saw what he could be. Memphis has done nothing at all in comparison.