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Unpopular Opinion: Marcus Rashford. (self.reddevils)

MolonLabe_BOR が 投稿

First off, let me say this. I think Marcus Rashford has been incredibly important to the club, and I appreciate what he's done.

I'm just going to come right out and say it - I think he is overrated. I'm not ready to unanimously crown him our #9 in the coming seasons (as it appears many fellow supporters are). We most certainly need to find ourselves a stop-gap striker this summer, allowing Rashford to develop behind somebody.

EDIT: I am not calling him rubbish, and I think he's earned himself a run of games in the starting 11.

EDIT 2: For those asking why I think he's overrated. He reminds of Chicharito during his time under SAF. He seemingly has a tendency to go missing for large swaths of the game (albeit small sample size). He has the same poachers mentality and cool head in front of goal but otherwise does little to impact the game. These tendencies worry me going forward, and I hope that whoever goes on to manage the club in the coming seasons doesn't rely on him as the sole answer at the 9.

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[–]doesnt_like_pantsHerrera 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's not overrated. He's a great talent and could go on to have an exceptional career but, as with everything in life, things need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

You're probably getting caught up in the media circus because I don't think anybody with even a shred of sense is suggesting we don't need to buy a striker..

The lad is 18, he's clearly talented but we definitely need to buy an established striker to lead the line.

[–]matt_66 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

18 years old, 7 goals 12 games, overrated? See Radamel Falcao, 24 games, 4 goals (although he was brilliant injuries had rendered him done for when we signed him).

There's nothing to rate him against, he literally came out of nowhere (I know many saw his potential at youth level and was highly rated, but to be plucked out due to a last minute injury before a game is literally from out of nowhere).

Let him carry on as many have said young players will be inconsistent but who's to say he can't become a key player much as Harry Kane has done for Spurs.

[–]Creamy_Goodne55 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Which is why we should be doing everything we can to get Zlatan

I dont want to see us paying 50-60 million on a striker that is going to be our no1 no9 for the next 5-10 years and basically means Rashford (and to an extent Martial) will never get another chance.

Zlatan is the perfect fit. Proven goalscorer, free transfer, only wants to be here for 2-3 year and has experience to pass on. Give him a deal with Rashford working alongside him and see over the next 2 years if the lad is going to become world class

[–]manutd_ -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

In order to fully develop a player , the alongside approach doesn't work. You have to play them at their best position through their ups and downs. Spurs absorbed Kane going through a barren patch at the start of this season e.g.

Zlatan will want to be to be the undisputed highest goalscorer and will stall both Martial and Rasfhford's development.

If we want to develop Rashford properly then lets get a long term no 10 and/or RW instead who can supply goals if Rashford's dry up because these are positions where our youth isn't stacking up. Lets try and get someone like Mahrez or if taking a riskier approach, Ousmane Dembele.

[–]Creamy_Goodne55 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree but Rashford is in no way comparable to Kane and theres no way he could play 40-50 games next season which means he needs someone to spread the load with him. Martial looks to be set in the LW role, nobody knows whats happening with Rooney next year and I cant see Wilson coming back after failing to shine at Brighton.

So it leaves you signing a striker to share the load which leaves you with two options.

Splash out on a proven premier league goalscorer. He will take the games completely away from Rashford, cost the earth and will be here for the years to come

or

Find a older striker that will only want to be here for a few year, doesn't have the legs to play every game so Rashford will get game time and will happily walk away when Rashford steps up to the next level.

The big pro in all of this is there is a striker ready and waiting in coulomb b that ticks all the boxes. Zlatan wont want to be no1 all season because there is no way he has the fitness to do it any more, the french league is like 2nd gear compared to ours. He will get 20-30 games, Rashford will get 20-30 games and both will shine.

[–]manutd_ -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rooney and Ibrahimovic are similar sorts of players right now and i am not sure in our insipid system either is guaranteed to consistently produce.

One player in this category is enough.

I think we have to prioritize players with creative ability who can dribble and unlock defenses something neither Rooney nor Ibra can do anymore.

[–]OmomooDe Gea -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know whether you are delusional or what. In all due respect, there are some key fallacies in your argument:

  • Zlatan is a proven goalscorer sure, just not in the Premier League. He is UNPROVEN here and that makes a big difference.
  • Buying a proven goalscorer and putting him alongside a young potential striker does not mean he will pass on his experience. Zlatan is a pretty selfish player on and off the pitch and Kingsley Coman can testify for that during his time with PSG.
  • Zlatan is asking for exorbitant wages that way exceed even what Rooney earns weekly. The last mentioned estimate (if true) is almost double of what Rooney earns. A 20~30 games player being paid those wages? Seriously?
  • Saying Rashford is not as good as Kane is subjective. Rashford has barely played half a season, while Kane has had 2 full seasons now plus multiple loan spells. Rashford is 18 while Kane is 22. That equates to 4 extra years for Rashford to develop.

I honestly don't get the biased mindset against young players. Does their young age put off the fans? If they are good at their age even at the senior level, play them. If not now, then when? If you don't trust & play the good youth players, they will be stuck with U21 football and stagnate. Whoever is in the best form & shape should play.

If you ask me, Rashford with 4 goals in 7 PL games is more proven than Zlatan, a 35 year old with zero experience in the PL. And a way cheaper option at that.

Keep Rooney, keep Martial & keep Rashford. James Wilson will probably be back next season. That gives us 4 natural strikers to rotate between already.

[–]LDN2016 12ポイント13ポイント  (15子コメント)

I don't think anyone's rating him as our starting number 9 next season. He's just in a purple patch of form which is why he's starting.

Obviously we buy someone like Zlatan next season to tide us over a season or two.

If Rashford's actually good he'll rise to the starter spot like Kane. If he's not he'll be benched like Januzaj.

That's one of the things I like about LvG. He doesn't give a shit about a player's wages or reputation. If someone on 500/week is playing better he'll bench the 500k/week superstar.

60m, 250k/week Di Maria? He's shit, to the bench he goes. No hesitation. Ballon D'or winne rRivaldo being a lazy unprofessional git? Fuck off to the bench.

Runs a total meritocracy.

[–]fakeplasticairbag -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Meritocracy my arse

Wayne Rooney says otherwise

[–]TrebolationsCantona 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

My captain shall always play - Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal

[–]Takley 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

My captain shall always play when we have nobody better - LVG

[–]LDN2016 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Rooney's shit but he doesn't have anyone better than him waiting on the bench.

He's never been as bad or inconsistent as Mata.

[–]the_trainmanRooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since when is Rooney shit? Most of us agreed that our play literally became worse when he came off against villa. There were other reasons too but you can't really say 'Rooney is shit'!

[–]mrpiggywinkles52Rooney 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is he shit I mean his 2016 form proves he still has it. Even after coming back from injury Rooney did well against villa he played that killer pass to Valencia that was scholes or giggs esque and it's pretty much agreed amongst many people that our play got worse when he went off

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

his 2016 form proves he still has it.

I still think he should be in the squad. I still think he's the best outfield player in the squad.

He's just not as good as Lewa, Robben, Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale, Benz, Suarez, Messi, Zlatan, Aguero, KdB, Ozil or even Kane which is what you need at the elite level.

You don't close the gap on the teams ahead of you if you don't upgrade vital positions.

I think history's shown a lot of competition tends to bring the best form out of Rooney. If he's still got it, the competition will bring out his best. If he can't sustain form for more than 2 months a season then we have alternatives.

It's a win-win to sign a world class forward.

[–]fakeplasticairbag -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes he has. Rooney in 2015 was absolute dog shit, no way he should have been starting every week

He didn't even try anyone else either.

[–]manutd_ -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Zlatan is a bad long term move. He is a big ego and will want to be the focus of the team at all costs.

I'd prefer purchases in the 20-25 bracket who are starting so show some consistency rather a 34 y/o who'll leave us hanging in two years time.

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Zlatan is a bad long term move

That's why he's target no. 1

We have 2 stupidly talented teenage strikers. Someone world class who'll fade/fuck off in 1-2 years is EXACTLY what we need and the best case scenario this summer.

Buy a 24 year old and that's the door shut on Rashford.

[–]manutd_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am not advocating a 24 y/o No. 9. We have Rooney in the oldandslow-but-can-finish category already. Let bring in pacier creative players who can supply goals from RW / No. 10 instead.

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

We need as many goalscorers as possible, this is our worst goal scoring season ever. Our last 2 seasons were amongst our top 10 worst goal scoring seasons ever.

SAF maintained a squad of 4 world class strikers for good reason.

We need 100 goals if we want to mount a serious title challenge. We'll be lucky to hit 50 this season.

Signing Zlatan doesn't mean we can't sign James.

Zlatan is a considerably better player than Rooney right now.

[–]manutd_ -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Zlatan will block up wages equal to two world class players or 3/4 upcoming players while competing with Rooney because i don't see how playing both together would be any good. I don't see the logic in this. Those wages should be allocated to pacier and more creative players instead.

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Zlatan will block up wages equal to two world class players

I don't see us realistically signing any better world class forwards or Zlatan wouldn't be an option.

[–]Reflex2011 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you should at least tell us why you think he's overrated because what he's doing on the pitch is remarkable.

18 year old 7 in 12 and has show he can hold up the ball, put players on their arse and has a pretty decent eye for a pass too. Yeah we need to get a new striker in but that's got nothing to do with Rashford.

[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who has unanimously crowned him our #9 for the coming seasons?

He's a promising kid bursting on to the scene, but kids tend to be wildly inconsistent. I think everyone are well aware that we need to strengthen up top.

[–]mu_37Schneiderlin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

i mean when someone does what he did at that age it's just impossible not to hype him up.if it was after the Arsenal game sure,but with 7 out of 12 i would be hyping up almost anyone let alone an 18 year old form our academy

[–]parton90Scholes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm interested, if Rooney had 7 in 12 games would you be saying he shouldn't be starting? Regardless of reputations you should go off the players performance, if he's scoring why shouldn't he start. I think we do need more depth up top and should sign in the summer but Rashford has given any manager a bit of a headache, if he carries this form on then it'll be pretty hard to drop him.

[–]wharsmetoothpicson 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be honest I've seen more posts/comments attempting to downplay what he's done rather than overhype him. It's all bullshit anyway, just let him get on with it on the pitch.

[–]G_Morgan 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know that we need a stop gap 9 but most people agree we need to reinforce the front 4 with at least 1 player who is good for the right now.

[–]manutd_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We need two i think. Just about every top team has atleast 3 quality dribbler / creators and we have just Martial.

[–]Prof_DumbbelldoreRuud 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree. People assumed overrated just means you think he's shit these days.

It doesn't.

A lot of people just think he is better than he is. To think we've had Rooney, RVP, Tevez, Berbatov and Ronaldo play as our strikers in the last 10 years and now apparently Rashford is good enough?

Give me a break boys, he deserves minutes when our main boys are tired or injured and minutes against teams where we're the CLEAR favourites.

Even Tony M has been inconsistent as our main striker, he's been better on the left. We NEED another striker, Rashford isn't the answer... yet.

[–]homa-bird 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's pretty incredible, I think Fosuh Mensah and CBJ are just as good tho, it's more that other players are underrated than a case of him being overrated.

He has traits of a young Samuel Eto'o, his verticality is pretty amazing regardless of the stats. I think I'd like him to start on the right wing next season, he doesn't have quite the dribbling ability of Martial but he's still way better than Memphis.

[–]johnsom3Ronaldo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Playing youth is a gamble. You need to identify talent in a player and project out how good you think he can become. It's easy to judge a player in hindsight, or identify talent when it's fully developed.

Everyone would take Kane in a heart beat now, but during the summer this sub was overwhelming against signing him(not saying United had a real chance to sign him). People were calling him a one season wonder and said the price tag was too high. What changed in his game to put everyone at ease with the price tag? Did he make a massive step up in ability this season compared to last season? Not really, he just showed people that what he did wasn't a fluke. At the end of that day is obvious that most fans don't really understand what makes a player good or poor, they just judge the players results and not the player.

Getting back to Rashford, I would ask you what you think he needs to work on before you would consider starting him? How can he work on those things you identified when he is playing behind a star striker? What player are you going to find who is both better than Rashford and willing to split time with him for a season or two until you are ready to promote him permanently? Not many guys are willing to leave a good situation where they are playing regularly, to join a United project that doesn't have them in the long term plans. That would be career suicide or effective retirement.

So again I would ask you why you are hesitant to believe in Rashford? If you think he is our future #9 then you have to invest in him now. You invest in a player by playing them and living with the growing pains. Bringing in a player like zlatan(not suggesting you want him, just throwing a name out there) wouldn't do anything for Rashford apart from stalling his growth.

Lastly I would want you to think back at what happened with pogba. The talent was clear as day but Fergie and the majority of fans were in a win now mindset because the club back then was competing for titles. People didn't want him to get games because "he wasn't good enough yet" and "he's not even the best player in the reserves". In the moment everyone thought it was a no brainer to bring Scholes back and play him over pogba because at the time he was the better player. Ferguson had a choice in that season and that was to invest in that campaign in the hopes of getting another title, or invest for the future and promote pogba full time. He choose to invest in the short term and it ended up costing him one of the best players of his generation.

The Ferguson era is over and we bungled the transition. We aren't an elite club at the moment in terms of competing at the top, but we are rebuilding right now and honestly aren't as far off as people think we are. Stick with Rashford and martial, let them grow together and you will be happy with the results down the road.

[–]OllieUnited18Schneiderlin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's kind of hard to overrate a player that a majority of our fan-base hadn't heard of a few months ago. Especially one that has performed so well. Few people with any common sense are actually saying he's the next RVN. He is what he is, a teenager putting up amazing performances.

[–]tocitusMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen a lot more fans of other teams claiming we overrate Rashford than I've seen Utd fans actually overrating him.

Rashford is a promising youngster who is enjoying his game-time at the moment. That's all.