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Engaged & fiance is against NFP (self.Catholicism)

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[–]-JMJ- 24ポイント25ポイント  (5子コメント)

If he's not ready for children he isn't ready for marriage. Sorry if that's blunt it's just the truth. The primary end of marriage is procreation and rearing of children. He might have good serious reasons for not being ready for children but it would be better to delay your marriage if these reasons are an obstacle. At the very least he should be on-board with NFP and understand the primary end of marriage. When you marry someone you start a family with them. To turn around and say, "no thanks not yet" means he's probably switched the primary ends of marriage with secondary ends (curing of concupiscence, companionship).

Not saying not to marry him at all or that he's a bad guy. But if you can't agree with your fiancee on a fundamental teaching of the church before you even get married it's something to explore - especially if you say, "I just don't know how to get through to him". This is the guy you're gonna spend the rest of your life with and bring up children with... and you don't know how to convince him or get through to him on a fundamental issue of the sacrament of marriage? Maybe not as bad as it sounds but worth thinking about.

[–]PolskaPrincess 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

The primary end of marriage is procreation and rearing of children.

The primary end of marriage is unity and procreation. Both/and, not one or the other.

Each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life. . . .This particular doctrine, often expounded by the magisterium of the Church, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.

From Humane Vitae

She didn't say her fiance is totally opposed to children, just that it's something he's freaking out about. Which I've honestly never talked to a expectant parent and them NOT be freaked out about. In my experience, there's a difference between openness to life (accepting children gracefully) and pursuing the creation of life (actively trying to have children). If he can buy into the former, he can save the latter for later in the marriage.

[–]SubjectSix 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

but now when my fiance and I discussed NFP he seemed super awkward and upset about the idea of NFP because he doesn't want to get pregnant as soon as we get married.

To me, "upset" means more than anxiety. It means anger.

As well the, "He doesn't want to get pregnant as soon we get married," also doesn't strike me as being genuinely open to life.

[–]PolskaPrincess 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've said the same things talking to my priest. I would be upset at first probably, even using NFP and what not. We've discerned with him that delaying pregnancy for a few months after the marriage is entirely licit and I would be upset, in the sense that it's not my plan and I have to give up my plan for God's plan. However, I'd also still be super excited about having a kid, even though we have very good reasons to delay a pregnancy right after we get married.

My point is, the two emotions are not mutually exclusive.

[–]-JMJ- 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The primary end of marriage is unity and procreation. Both/and, not one or the other.

This is the modernist, false and totally novel idea without any precedence. How can a primary end by two things? That's illogical. It has to be one or the other because it is primary. Your quote doesn't even show that it's both. It just says the obvious fact that unitive and procreative are inherent to the act. Not which is the primary end. It doesn't even make sense biologically to say that the primary end is unity.

Post-conciliar documents have muddied the waters but they have not changed the truth of the matter.

1917 Code of Canon Law Canon 1013 §1. The primary end of marriage is the procreation and education of children; its secondary end is mutual help and the allaying of concupiscence.

Now, the truth is that matrimony, as an institution of nature, in virtue of the Creator's will, has not as a primary and intimate end the personal perfection of the married couple but the procreation and upbringing of a new life. The other ends, iasmuch as they are intended by nature, are not equally primary, much less superior to the primary end, but are essentially subordinated to it. Pope Pius XII Allocution to Midwives.

By their very nature, the institution of matrimony itself and conjugal love are ordained for the procreation and education of children, and find in them their ultimate crown. Gaudium et Spes 48. Marriage and conjugal love are by their nature ordained toward the begetting and educating of children. Children are really the supreme gift of marriage and contribute very substantially to the welfare of their parents. The God Himself Who said, "it is not good for man to be alone" (Gen. 2:18) and "Who made man from the beginning male and female" (Matt. 19:4), wishing to share with man a certain special participation in His own creative work, blessed male and female, saying: "Increase and multiply" (Gen. 1:28). Hence, while not making the other purposes of matrimony of less account, the true practice of conjugal love, and the whole meaning of the family life which results from it, have this aim: that the couple be ready with stout hearts to cooperate with the love of the Creator and the Savior. Who through them will enlarge and enrich His own family day by day. Parents should regard as their proper mission the task of transmitting human life and educating those to whom it has been transmitted. Gaudium et Spes 50.

Section 2. Purpose and Properties of Marriage 1. Purpose The primary purpose of Marriage is the generation and bringing-up of offspring. The secondary purpose is mutual help and the morally regulated satisfaction of the sex urge. (Sent. certa.) CIC 1013, Par 1. In their efforts to evaluate marriage as something more than a personal contract, many modern theologians, as against the traditional teaching of the purpose of marriage, whose principal exponent is St. Thomas, have submitted that the primary prupose of marriage is the mutual completion and personal perfection of the marriage partners, or their mutual love and unity. The Holy Office, in the year 1944, in answer to an enquiry, re-asserted the traditional teaching, according to which the primary purpose of marriage is the generation and bringing up of children, and according to which the secondary pruposes of marriage are essentially subordinate to the primary one. Denzinger 2295. Ludwig van Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

Please note that Ott holds the above as Sententia Certa.

Even St John Paul II - not well-known for his love of traditional teaching or exposition - held the following:

The Church, as has been mentioned previously, teaches, and has always taught, that the primary end of marriage is procreatio, but that it has a secondary end, defined in Latin terminology as mutuum adiutorium. Apart from these, a tertiary aim is mentioned -- remedium concupiscentiae. Marriage, objectively considered, must provide first of all the means of continuing existence, secondly a conjugal life for man and woman, and thirdly a legitimate orientation for desire. The ends of marriage in the order mentioned are incompatible with any subjectivist interpretation of the sexual urge, and therefore demand from man, as a person, objectivity in his thinking on sexual matters, and above all in his behavior. This objectivity is the foundation of conjugal morality. Love and Responsibility.

Etc.

She didn't say her fiance is totally opposed to children, just that it's something he's freaking out about.

Didn't read that way to me.

In my experience, there's a difference between openness to life (accepting children gracefully) and pursuing the creation of life (actively trying to have children).

He doesn't sound open to life if his first thought about conjugal relations in marriage is "lets not have children!" coupled with not "liking" NFP.