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PvPInvasions aren't duels people. (self.darksouls3)

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[–]Deadscale -7ポイント-6ポイント  (43子コメント)

People really need to fuck off mentioning the red soap-stone and stacked odds.

My issue is simple. I think everyone can agree that the idea behind invasions is that you're supposed to be hindering progression, stopping people from reaching their goal, the next bonfire, the boss. You're invading into their world to stop them from doing something as an added mini-boss of the level, a dynamic mini-boss that's a great addition to any souls game. Can you agree that's what invading is?

I'm not asking for a fucking honor duel, I'm not even asking for the invasions to be 1 on 1 and people really need to stop thinking that's what I'm on about. All I'm asking saying is that invading 3 people sat around a fucking bonfire who won't move their asses because their Whole objective is to be invaded and kill someone 3 on 1 next to the bonfire. Is fucking stupid, I basically invade, run to the bonfire, see 3 people sat around it, and leave, because I have no reason to stay, they won't come out into the level to try and kill me, they don't want to progress to kill the boss, if they did they wouldn't get invaded. Their whole reason for being there is to kill the guy who invades them 3 on 1, next to the bonfire where if one of their friends dies or runs out of estus's he can leave and come back fully charged. Fuck you if you think that's "Fine and adds to the experience".

It wasn't like this in DaS 1, When you invaded you felt you were there to stop them going forward, my favorite place to invade was blight town because regardless of how many friends they had, it was a place nearly no one liked and it was annoying to progress through if you didn't do it fast, and me slowing them down killed them more times then me killing them myself. That's all I'm asking for, In 5 hours I invaded all of 2 people who were actually progressing through the level, 1 by himself, and 1 with 2 friends, and it was a blast. I ran, I used enemies, I ducked, dived, picked them off to recharge my estus. THAT WAS GREAT. What's not great is invading where 3 people are sat round a bonfire masturbating waiting for the next guy to come in so they can rape him, a host who has the way of the blue covenant ring on to summon blues into his world so it's even more imbalanced, and they STILL WONT LEAVE THE BONFIRE.... If you're trying to defend this, then you're probably a ganker yourself.

And I get it you know, the whole "git gud welcome to dark souls" shit, I get it, but it doesn't stop something from being stupid, and it doesn't stop something from needing to be fixed. Twinking was an issue in DaS 1 and you saw people trying to defend that too, and this feels like the same thing, something stupid that shouldn't be a part of the game that will essentially kill invasions off sooner or later, and people try to defend it... christ.

[–]Knightofberenike 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

15 invasions in, only 4 of them were actually fighting the area.

[–]Shimmybot 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Here's a different perspective. I think the invasion system is inherently broken. Pvp should be relegates to Pvp areas. I liked in ds2 the areas where you knew if I go there I'll be invaded so I avoided them. I don't want to Pvp, I don't like having Pvp forced upon me. But if I say that, people say get gud or go offline.

Here's the problem, I'm not good and I know it and am ok with it. Guaranteed every invader is going to be better than me and is imposing on my fun because it's fun for them.

I also find cooperation fun and the message system is funny, so going offline isn't really an option to me.

While yes ganksquads could be irksome for an invader, it really the same thing. They're imposing their fun on you. Completely through the mechanics of the game

[–]Deadscale 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The only way I can say it's not the same thing, is by stating that invaders are there to stop progress, and without progress there's no reason to invade, that's really all there is to my argument.

And the reply you get when you say stuff like that is just a testament to how jumped up the community is, now I arguably would have to say that without players who are progressing through the game in host-form. Invaders couldn't invade and as such, wouldn't be useful, so not allowing someone to invade is a no-no in terms of options. But they've been consistently trying to make the host favored in invasions. Blues get summoned a lot more now, you have a lot more heals then the invader unless he has miracles, and more health. Plus there's an invasion timer at which you won't be invaded for the next few minutes after it happening, which IMO It could do with being longer as getting your friends summoning sign to pop up can be a bitch even with the password system.

Point being though, there has to be one for the other to exists, If you're not there in the game, I'm not gonna be able to invade anyone, and a lot of the time invading starts to really die out after a few months because people hit end-game and mostly just PvP a lot, so I can agree that the system itself is inherently broken. Just with the gank-fest currently that time where invading will die out is going to go by real quick.

[–]ColossalJuggernaut 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Quit calling it a "gank fest." An invader is trying to do the ganking, not the host. Even sitting around the bonfire and waiting for invaders.

You choose to go into someone's world to gank them. They aren't dragging you to them - you choose to try to gank and don't like it when the odds are stacked against you (bonfire included).

Yes, this is different than other Souls games. And you don't like it. Send a strongly worded email to From and move on.

[–]Deadscale [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Well considering in the area I was in, I invaded for 5 hours, I got 2 people who were progressing through the area (one with 2 friends), and the rest were all people sat at bonfires spamming dried fingers so they can gank people, Yeah... I am getting dragged into their world)

[–]ColossalJuggernaut [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yeah... I am getting dragged into their world)

No, you weren't. They were baiting invaders with every advantage, sure. But you, as an invader, still had to actively enter a host's world - which was a decision only you could make.

Look, there just isn't any low hanging newbie fruit to be ganked this time around (until this game goes on a steam sale). This is bad for you and good for newbies. I will concede this is a radical change on From's part, but judging by this thread, just as many people like the change as hate it.

The mechanic changed, sorry.

[–]Deadscale [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But why do you think I want to invade noobs? That's just fundamentally wrong, If i enjoyed invading people who had no chance at winning, I'd be in a Gank squad. I'd be doing Twink invasions in dark souls 1.

So your whole argument is hinging on the fact that I have to want to invade someone who's less skilled then me. I'm fine, Let me invade someone who's better, fuck let me invade oroboro, or peeve, fuck i dont really know anyone else who pvp's who's notable in the scene. Let me invade them, I'll enjoy the challenge, just aslong as they're running to the boss of the level and not sat around with 3 of their friends toasting and resting spamming dried fingers.

[–]sanman7890 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You can hinder progress without successfully killing someone in an invasion, no? Or does a failed invasion not count as a stressful deviation from the normal game as it does to the player? Because it is still a stressful deviation from the normal game in my book, aka mission accomplished.

[–]Deadscale 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I dont mind failing the invasion. I don't mind if I don't kill them or not.

But what am I doing to gankers when I invade? I'm not talking about 3 people running through the game here, I invaded 3 people running through the game, And we had a large battle that lasted the whole width of the map getting right next tot he boss door before i won, and I've had one where I got instantly murdered by 1 guy, both were fun.

My issue is when people just sit there with 2 friends next to a bonfire with their only purpose being to fight invaders, not wanting to move through the level. Because then my invasion was worthless. Hell I don't even really like people who use invasions to honor duel in a 1v1, since I'm still not really doing anything to someone who wants to be invaded, but atleast there It goes from an invasion to a duel, not an invasion to a Me wait near monsters for 5 minutes then leave because they won't move, or me walk in and get raped by 3 people.

[–]sanman7890 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, ok, yeah. I experienced enough of those in DS2 to feel your pain in that regard. I haven't invaded at all in DS3 yet but I'm not too worried about doing it until the game ages a bit so maybe, just maybe, there won't be so many multi man invades.

I mean at some point we should start getting those good old single man invasions, unless they change how the invasion priority works.

They "fixed" twinking, but seems they'll never be able to fix ganking.

[–]Kachajal 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is a different topic than that of the thread, but I agree.

Simply said, the way they are right now, invasions are completely unfun.

They needed improving from the way they were in DkS2, because the invaders had a large advantage there. Half estus, two/infinite summons and extremely lenient boss fogs? A bit too much of a compensation.

[–]Deadscale 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah it is off-topic. I apologize for that, IIRC i thought OP had posted something like "in an invasion everything goes" or w/e which prompted me to post that, but looking at it now I was mistaken.

[–]allrollingwolf 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

Sometimes its a gank fest, sometimes its a one on one. When its a gank fest, be sneaky, hide, use the world and existing ambushes to your advantage. Seriously, you write a fucking book on how butt hurt you are?

Git Gud.

[–]Deadscale 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

When its a gank fest, be sneaky, hide, use the world and existing ambushes to your advantage

Fuck me how hard is it to grasp the simple matter of the fact, They. Wont. Leave. the Bonfire. How many times does this have to be said.

[–]allrollingwolf 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what the separation crystal is for dawg. Don't waste your time. Also, invade at weird times of day... morning, very late. Less gank squads. I've had about 50/50 1v1/gank this morning and the ganks had other invaders in them. Try out the crab swamp.

[–]ColossalJuggernaut 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're just going to have to wait until people stop advancing.

I get the feeling many invaders that are butt hurt thought they'd have a ball with these newbies in Dark Souls 3 and that just didn't happen.

These players have every right to kill you anyway they want if you choose to invade their world with intention of stopping their progress.

[–]Deadscale [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

And there in lies my problem.

When people stop advancing, I'll stop invading since that's my only joy I take out of it, When that stage hits I'll go into Dueling. I get that some people thought it was gonna be a cake walk with loads of new players coming in. I for one didn't expect to see any real new players and the only 2 I have seen were the watchdogs of farron people that invaded me and got murdered, but I've never actually thought of invading to kill noobs tbh, I've just alwyas saw invading as being a mini-boss of that area. This may be because after dark souls 2 dueling got boring for me I went back to dark souls 1 and essentially did themed invasions from then until Dark souls 3 came out (Playing a level 10 Oscar of Astoria has been the best low level invasion roleplay I've done) so in my eyes I'm trying to be a mini-boss, and these people are just ganking... meh.

[–]ColossalJuggernaut [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I for one didn't expect to see any real new players

Oh come on, this game has had huge hype - way more than previous Souls games.

[–]Deadscale [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I didn't, I already thought Dark soul 1 and 2 had that much of a huge following that everyone who I'd be invading at that point 7 hours into the game, would know how to play, I mean fuck the game had been out 9 hours at that point and i was at the cathedreal of the deep with a level 40 +4 weapon. And noobs are who i'm looking for? come on.

[–]Fexxzz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, that happens every now and then. Yesterday I faced three dudes and they just holed up in a house in the Undead Settlement. I managed to bait them out, kill one of them and I was already thinking about how take down the last two. WHEN THEY JUST WENT BACK TO THE BONFIRE AND SUMMONED ANOTHER ONE. That's just no fun.

But I had tons of fun invading in the Crucification Woods today. Invaded for like 3 hours non stop, mostly ganks of course, only two or three one on ons, but when you manage to bait the host and his summons into one of those giant grabs and just annihilate them...it feels SO. DAMN. REWARDING. Even had some 3v2 invasions (which were incredibly awesome). Sadly the current state of PVP leaves a lot to be desired. R1 spamfest, lag appears to be worse, estus chugging like crazy, rolling giving you what feels like 50 iframes at almost no stamina drain...dunno. I still have fun, but it doesn't feel like there is a lot of skill involved currently.

[–]SalishSailor 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. Half of my invasions since starting DS3 (a total of 6 or 7) have obviously been setups for a gank like this. I get that invasions are "anything goes" and that definitely goes for the host. If someone invades me and there's a white summon nearby, you bet I'll use it to try to stop the invader from fucking with my progress.

But yeah, if I invade and it's some guy who has used dried fingers just sitting around the bonfire with his buddies all waiting to gank, that's just lame. Hopefully it's only like that in the first area.

[–]ignaeon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm going to be building my character solely to murder gank squads, since the last fifty invasions left me feeling like there wasn't a point in getting the red eye.

[–]isprobablyatwork 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Oh yum, I love sour grapes.

[–]UncleMalky 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have you considered they are staying in areas with no mobs specifically because they are aware the mobs will aggro them and not you?

As soon as I see the sign of an invasion I move to an area with no mobs. I'm also playing with friends. Our goal is to have fun together, not 'gank' invaders.

[–]Deadscale 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, And if they were progressing through the game, and then saw the invasion, then stayed at an area with no mobs, i'd be fine with that. When they're actively stood next to the bonfire spaming dried finger for days because htey want to gank, I'm pretty sure that's out of the bounds of what you're talking about

[–]Tenel_Ka_ChumeTa_DjoYou defeated? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuckin PREACH

[–]Solaratov 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah I think people have the wrong mentality about invasions.

Think of invaders not as opposing players, but as an additional, random challenge to your existing PvE world. Like an impromptu boss fight.

[–]Monory 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

For me, it just feels like when you get griefed by high level players in games like WoW. They have a gear/knowledge/allied monster advantage and just have fun screwing over people who are out doing their own thing. I know it's a part of the game, same with getting ganked on pvp servers, but it is hard to be sympathetic towards invaders.

[–]Aslatera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd honestly say that that's a poor comparison. I get where you're coming from, but not quite. In WoW, when you get griefed by high level players, you're mathematically unlikely to even do damage to them. The skill system in that game decides that someone 8 or so levels ahead of you has a 80% percent chance to just ignore your attacks, while their number scaling from a purely numerical sense is so astronomically different from your's that the damage that they do is going to outclass you by so far that it's unlikely you'll survive more than one hit

In Dark Souls 3, however, there is no gear advantage. Yes, there is a mob advantage, yes there is usually some knowledge advantage, and I'll even throw in a readiness advantage, too. I know I'm invading. Similarly, I expect you to panic and do things like try to summon help. I honestly don't mind. I'll do 2v1 all day. It's like a certain PvP-esc boss. I did this because I want to fight, I don't really care about the details, that's why we're in Lothric, isn't it? To put our lives on the line? Honestly, I don't even care about getting rewards or anything like that either. Griefing? If I invade you and you're honestly stuck in an area and absolutely want to get out of it, add me on steam after and I'll set my sign down for you, I'll even give you some of my ill-gotten embers...

The reason so many reds are complaining though, is that right now it's impossible to actually get in fights. I'll invade into areas that are either untouched or completely cleared, people who have 0 interest in the boss. If I invade outside of the boss area and you have friends to help you and I have to fight three people at once, sure. Whatever. That's my fault for using the orb. If I invade by the bonfire and there's a small army of people waving at me to come into the room, away from the monster support, where I don't have a real level or gear advantage because of the way summon range is influenced by weapon level? It's not really a good fight at all. Granted, I can run and grab my bloodstain, but what people complaining about red complaints need to realize is, if it's not worthwhile to actually invade people, part of the Dark Souls experience is lost. All of the threads and comments the last few weeks about 'Oh man I'm so excited to have the day 1 experience.'. There's a few of us who are still wanting to go all out with it for the sake of having some fun battles against who knows what is on the other side, but the more people that are discouraged by this kind of stuff, the worse it is for the game as a whole.

[–]sanman7890 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I take every invasion personally, me versus them! To the death! All my hate and rage!

Otherwise the wins wouldn't be so heart pounding and the losses so breath robbing, ya know.

[–]ColossalJuggernaut 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Think of invaders not as opposing players, but as an additional, random challenge to your existing PvE world.

This is absurd. Of course people see invaders as players and always will. That is because they are players. The only way what you said would work is if there was a random chance for NPC invaders.

Only then would an invader be considered a mini boss.

[–]Sexiroth 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't even remotely agree with that. I think invasions are there to supply a pvp / ganking aspect for those that are interested in it, it also ties itself into the lore of the world.

Most of the time, invasions annoy me, greatly. I'm not the guy who goes out of his way to grab gear and spells from further in the game then I've progressed and then come back and invade low soul level folks - which is the experience that is to be had in every souls game until you hit whatever the "soul cap" has been decided upon in that particular game.

Do I want there to be no invasions? Absolutely not, while I hate being invaded I love the constant threat it adds to the game.

In your second paragraph you very literally state your favorite thing about invading is being a giant pain in the ass to anyone else. Invading in blight town is the about as close to cancer as you can get. Literally it's just ruining someone's day. But I fully endorse and love the fact that it can happen, as much as I loathe it. But you better believe I never go through blighttown without 2 summons alongside me just in case someone like you comes along.

I applaud you for being a consistent invader and adding that level of threat I enjoy to the game. But I find you a bit of an insufferable whiner when you complain about people joining up in co-op, creating stacked odds to protect against invasion - while on the OTHER hand you're ganking people in a zone literally only the worst people in the world would invade in.

[–]Deadscale 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well to see if I'll change your mind on agreeing why there are invasions.

Why can you not invade when the boss has been killed? If it were to purely supply PvP, then you would be able to invade just fine when the boss is dead. The most logical answer is that you can only invade in an area where a boss is alive, because you're job is to Stop them getting to the boss. If you've got another explanation then fire away on that, because I see no other point to invading.

[–]Its_the_other_tj 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tldr; I want to grief players and am mad that they can now fight back without being at half health/fighting mobs.