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Vietnamese Martial Art (self.kungfu)

tvdpracphl が 投稿

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[–]Grey129Shaolin 4ポイント5ポイント  (36子コメント)

Focusing on the videos because it's pointless to discuss the articles from this guy, can you explain the purpose of some of those moves?

The flurry of short hand movements doesn't seem to have much purpose or application at all? It looks like some may be grabbing motions, but why would you make a grab and just pull it to your chest?

While in the sparring videos it just looks like a lot of slapping like a cat fight with the occasional kick or punch. Why does the style focus on the crazy, wavy hand movements? They don't look very effective at all.

[–]K33P53CR3T蔡李佛 - 5th Gen - Chan Family Choy Lee Fut 2ポイント3ポイント  (19子コメント)

If you sit and analyze the wavy hand motions, you will notice that a majority of the time there is no bridging above the eyebrow, meaning, If he were to tangle with a Choy Lee Fut fighter, he definitely would be eating fist.

[–]tvdpracphl[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (18子コメント)

You're always welcome to come test your anonymous internet statements. Other people in this thread are trying to figure it out for themselves, but if you want to talk trash like that, back it up, coward!

[–]Grey129Shaolin 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you could reply to my questions and give us a breakdown on a few of the individual moves and how they are used, that would go a long way to giving your style some integrity. Most people here are ready to write you off as it appears you've been indoctrinated into some fake mcdojo.

[–]tvdpracphl[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Most people here are ready to write you off as it appears you've been indoctrinated into some fake mcdojo.

And I will still practice Thanvodao every day with all of my classmates, and we will still learn about Asian history and culture, and we will still learn about morality and we will still improve our lives through martial art every day. If we cared about what people say or think about us, we'd be discussing qi on an internal arts forum where everybody plays ball.

I can't break down our master's practice, that is not a simple form that you learn like block here, change stance, attack the opening. It's not like that. This is qigong and conditioning preparing the body for movement in whatever spontaneous direction it needs to move in!

[–]Grey129Shaolin 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

If it can't be broken down, how can you learn it? How will you know if you're doing it correctly?

Qigong can be broken down simply too, I learnt a qigong form recently.

You always have an answer to avoid any rational question or discussion.

[–]IGoodKittywah lum tam tui, taijiquan 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm prepared to admit my almost total ignorance about that style, but, from what he has said, I get the impression that it's not a form that you learn. It seems to be spontaneously generated by the practitioner based on principles of movement, and those principles then act as the checks and balances. (Think about how you know whether you're doing a heel kick correctly. You can tell because your base leg feels stable and rooted, because your head height remains constant and doesn't rise when you extend the kicking leg, for instance. It's not because you break it down to "extend the leg with the heel cranked.") It's almost like more complicated, improvisational silk-reeling, I guess.

Of course, I'd still like to see more about the more practical, applicable side of the art, though, since that's how I'd test if those principles of movement are actually effective. For instance, I know silk-reeling is effective, because I can generate more power by engaging the whole body in the way it encourages, and I have tested that against opponents and had it tested on me.

[–]Grey129Shaolin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, Spirit36 clarified that it is spontaneous and meditative and not a form that is taught. I still question it because it appears to be random, are proper body mechanics encouraged through this spirit practice?

As you said silk reeling works because it helps you practice power generation, other qigong practices promote correct breathing, posture, and awareness of muscle group and joint function.

[–]tvdpracphl[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

The form that you saw my master demonstrate in those videos is not how we teach a beginner!

[–]kwamzillaBajiquan 八極拳 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just answer his question.

[–]K33P53CR3T蔡李佛 - 5th Gen - Chan Family Choy Lee Fut 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anonymous? Go to the Kung Fu map. That's where I live. Feel free to send your ghosts.

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

You guys are in Philly, right? Next time in town, I will look you up. Not to cause trouble but to see the school in person and maybe take a beginners class.

[–]RechekJook Lum 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Also, come touch hands with me. I'm sure we can learn something from each other! I've only ever had good experiences from reddit meetups.

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Philly as well? Definitely. And even if not Philly, definitely. My goal is to train everywhere I business travel this year.

If you are Philly, have you ever crossed hands with the 7 mountains crew? If so, what's your take?

[–]RechekJook Lum 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yep. Definitely Philly, and I have not. I tried at one point but Tv informed me that it wasn't possible for a number of reasons. That said, spirit36 has been more than amenable, and would like to. We intended to and it fell apart, more due to my schedule than his. At some point, I'm sure it will happen.

[–]Spirit36Seven Mountains 神拳 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm still open to playing. It is hard to find matching schedules, but one day...

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We'll all have to try to get together!

(Now we just need to sell some work in Philly... man I love your indoor market... it's a GREAT food city!)

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Deal. We will definitely connect the next time I am in town.

[–]tvdpracphl[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, yeah we are in Philly.

[–]FakkuPuruinNhentaiporn star 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

how are you even aloud to post with perma negative karma?

[–]K33P53CR3T蔡李佛 - 5th Gen - Chan Family Choy Lee Fut 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know what's really sad? As much as him and I go back and forth, I never downvote him.

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

The flurry of short hand movements doesn't seem to have much purpose or application at all? It looks like some may be grabbing motions, but why would you make a grab and just pull it to your chest?

That's what I've been trying to figure out. Indonesian arts have similiar hand movements thought not -- well -- as spastic/disconnected from the base.

There's a lot of debate in the Indonesian arts as to how much of that motion was martial (depending on who you ask, learning to fight with bound hands) and how much was dance.

[–]Grey129Shaolin 2ポイント3ポイント  (14子コメント)

Yeah trying to give this style the benefit of the doubt because it's so persistently posted isn't easy. If these moves can be broken down separately then there might be some credibility to it.

It does just look like a confusing dance or distraction with no effectiveness except by making the opponent as confused as we are.

[–]Spirit36Seven Mountains 神拳 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

A lot of those short hand movements are replacing hands meant for being inside an opponent's range. What my classmate often forgets to mention is that there are two aspects to our art. He focuses on the mystic system which IS very sporadic and focuses on conditioning and fluidity. What he doesn't mention alot is that there are formal linear animal sets with specific application sets. The majority of videos posted are of the spirit sets which are confusing.

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

By conditioning, what exactly do you mean?

And are we correct in guessing that the spirit forms are all improvised or performed in a free flow trance/ecstatic state?

[–]Spirit36Seven Mountains 神拳 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes the Spirit form is a trance art separate from the physical form. While they enhance each other they are two separate practices. The answer to the million dollar question depends on how religious you view the practice. Are you really channeling the spirits of the old masters as a type of possession or is it your primal subconscious coming out from within? My view is that it doesn't matter. It is like an equation to me, or a cause/effect scenario. If I do this, then that happens. It is a standing meditation that causes energy (one type or another) to pull and push you in a spontaneous manner.

As far as the conditioning that I mentioned, there are a few types. A lot of hard internal breathing with dynamic muscle tension. There is moving (fluid) balance (as opposed to static balance). Sometimes you will see people smacking themselves as a type of straight physical conditioning.... If you have more specific question, feel free to ask me.

This is a video of me practicing the spirit trance. It is much different than the videos of the beginners that people love to post as an example of our style. (I have been studying this art exclusively for near 20 yrs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwZHJmKpGRs

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks for posting these clarifications and the video. I appreciate your expression of your art.

[–]Spirit36Seven Mountains 神拳 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is my pleasure.

Because it is pseudo religious, conversation about this practice has a tendency to get out of control

[–]mattBerniusModern CMA, Internal Arts 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's partially it. The fact that most of the spirit forms online, unlike yours, really don't appear particularly martial honestly doesn't help either.

FWIW, your form still maintained a martial core that make it clear to the outside observer the context and applications of most movements.

That has much more appeal to those of us who tend to be more pragmatically minded.

It also helps that you don't tend to write like a cultist.

[–]Grey129Shaolin 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm sorry but even at the range the purpose of those kinds of short hand movements still isn't clear to me. Does the physical system use more aparrent striking?

What are the focuses and characteristics of the physical system?

[–]Spirit36Seven Mountains 神拳 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't have videos of application but I should make some. Here is a basic Dragon form. It has set sequences and is one of the early forms that a beginner learns. Each of the 7 animals has a different characteristic focus. Dragon has a lot of twisting presses with a step through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs2wErTHxuk

[–]Grey129Shaolin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for sharing that, you perform it well. That form is a much better representation of the martial side to your art.

Would you consider starting a new post to discuss your art a little more wholistically and answer questions?

Your perspective and level headed responses can avoid it collapsing to insults and defensive replies from tvdprach always saying "you outsiders wouldn't understand!" every time Seven Mountains is posted. A few of us here would like to learn more about this art before disregarding it. I still hold criticism for it but would be interested to discuss it further.

[–]kwamzillaBajiquan 八極拳 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

/u/Spirit36 is a good person to talk to.
He practises the same art but doesn't seem as lost. Genuinely nice guy, and you'll get some good info out of him.

[–]K33P53CR3T蔡李佛 - 5th Gen - Chan Family Choy Lee Fut 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree. Regardless of my personal opinions of the style; I think that /u/Spirit36 is a much better spokesperson for the art as opposed to /u/tvdpracphl.

[–]kwamzillaBajiquan 八極拳 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wordup. He's one of my favourite members on the sub.

[–]Grey129Shaolin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, he gave me a far more direct answer in one comment than a whole chain from the other guy. Hopefully he gets back to my reply to his comment.

[–]kwamzillaBajiquan 八極拳 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

For sure. He's good people.