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[–]Diogenes-- 383ポイント384ポイント  (180子コメント)

Hundreds of reasons, I'll list a few of the big ones.

Title IX, pushed through legislation by feminism, allows universities to expel male students based on an accusation alone. No trial, no appeal, nothing. Feminism says women are people, but people often lie and women never do, apparently. Nevermind the Duke lacrosse and UVA rape hoaxes, among others and countless false allegations that don't make the news. Rationality has no place in feminism.

VAWA, based on the Duluth model and pushed into legislation by feminism, requires the police to arrest the man in domestic violence disputes, no matter what. Nevermind that women commit domestic violence at the same rate as men, nevermind if the man in a given DV call hasn't touched the woman - he gets arrested no matter what thanks to feminism and as usual, she gets the r/pussypass.

Upon entering university, we are taught by feminists not to rape in compulsory consent classes. In other words we're told that being born male makes us such horrible people that we need specialized training by people who hate us or we'll egregiously harm other people. The equivalent would be if all women were required to be taught by MRAs not to abuse their children. That would never be allowed, of course - feminists hate being treated the way they treat others.

The 77% pay gap and 1 in 4/5/6 myths have been thoroughly debunked yet feminism continues to perpetuate them. Step aside logic, feminism is here to shit all over you! What we say is true because we say so, and if you bring up that rational, scientific, statistics shit that proves us wrong you're an evil misogynist!

There are feminist campaigns against men urinating standing up, sneezing too loud, spreading our legs when we sit down and setting air conditioning to a comfortable temperature. Essentially it's wrong to be born male.

Feminism is the new religion. Like religion it encourages hysterical, baseless fear among its followers based on outright lies. Like religion it silences free speech, open discussion and the slightest hint of dissent. Like religion it relies on self-appointed police to point accusatory fingers at everyone, hoping to distract and terrorize people too much to question it.

Fuck feminism.

[–]theluckytwig 181ポイント182ポイント  (42子コメント)

I'd like to ask for some sources here on the first 2 reasons. Some quick researching of Title IX shows nothing of what you said. In fact the opposite. Haven't found anything regarding your statement.

The same goes fro your VAWA point. Scroll down to the coverage of male victims.

Before I get attacked by downvotes or insults I'd like to state I am not a feminist nor do I like feminism myself. But I don't like BS points used to argue an opinion.

[–]Fernao 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

He was suspended for three semesters by the University of Colorado Boulder for “sexual misconduct,” even though police filed no charges against him and his accuser admitted she wanted to scare him when she made the complaint.

The point is that he is forced to use the own law against them - the law that forced the university to suspended him in the first place. The article is noteworthy because this is the first time that men have fought back in court, and it's still unsure whether or not they'll succeed.

The federal crackdown can be traced to an April 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter from the Department of Education’s civil rights office, which put academic institutions on notice that sexual misconduct constitutes a violation of Title IX. The letter also lowered the standard of proof in handling such cases to a “preponderance of the evidence,” from the “clear and convincing evidence” standard some schools were using, much less the “beyond a reasonable doubt” rule of criminal rape cases.

For academic institutions, the risks are huge. A finding against the school could result in a complete withdrawal of federal funding, which for large research universities could amount to as much as 20 percent of their budgets, said Joe Cohn, legislative and policy director of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

The result is that disciplining, suspending or even expelling male students accused of sexual assault is often the path of least resistance for universities, even if the facts of the case are ambiguous or police decline to pursue charges, said Sherry Warner Seefeld, president of Families Advocating Campus Equality.

I mean, I"m not sure what you're confused about, since your own source is arguing that men are forced to go to court to defend themselves against bogus allegations that the university was legally required to act on.

[–]MosDaf 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Title IX is definitely not having the opposite effect of the one alleged by Diogenes--. What you found were some court cases brought by guys citing Title IX...but anyone can bring a case. So far all I know of is one such case being thrown out on the grounds that Title IX was inapplicable.

[–]charlatanoftime 143ポイント144ポイント  (34子コメント)

Edit: not sure why I bothered seeing as it took less than five minutes before it was downvoted. Here's hoping someone is willing to engage in a discussion before this is hidden.

Non-American here so pardon my ignorance on some of your examples.

Title IX allows universities to expel male students based on an accusation alone. No trial, no appeal, nothing.

Yeah, I've read some examples that support this claim and that's certainly very troubling. Title IX seems to me (and again, my knowledge is superficial) like a good idea executed poorly.

Feminism says women are people, but people often lie and women never do, apparently

Strawman. In terms of false allegations, the common claim made by feminists is that the percentage of false rape allegations is similar to the amount of false allegations in general. Research supports this.

VAWA, based on the Duluth model and pushed into legislation by feminism

VAWA received bipartisan support and as such it's wildly unfair to simply blame feminists for it. I agree that there is a massive issue with the treatment of violence against men worldwide. Indeed, many feminists are campaigning for men's rights in areas like domestic violence, custody cases, etc., and an important part of feminism - to me, anyway - is to dispel once and for all with this fiction that men cannot be victims or that it is somehow shameful for men to seek help. Gendered stereotypes hurt men and women alike.

we're told that being born male makes us such horrible people that we need specialized training by people who hate us or we'll egregiously harm other people

You're being told that being male makes you statistically more likely to perpetrate crimes of a sexual nature. This is based on statistics and the object of consent classes is, weirdly enough, to teach what consent is because guess what, a lot of men have a hard time figuring it out.

The equivalent would be if all women were required to be taught by MRAs not to abuse their children.

Disagree. Child abuse perpetrators in 2012 were 53.5% female. Considering that kids spend more time with their mothers than their fathers, I'd say this indicates that men and women are mostly equal in this case.

The 77% pay gap and 1 in 4/5/6 myths have been thoroughly debunked yet feminism continues to perpetuate them.

This is not nearly as cut-and-dry as you would make it seem. There is still research that shows that job applications are more favourably rated when they are thought to come from men, for example. Furthermore, while the "real" or unexplained gender gap is estimated (in the US) to be around 5-6%, the point can be made that the explained gender gap (ie. the gap resulting from choices such as maternal leave) is a symptom of inequality; feminists are working hard to ensure paternal leave rights which, apart from being a huge boon to men, could over time change the child-rearing dynamic. In other words, the extent of the gender gap issue is highly debatable and simply claiming that it is made up really does nothing to engender debate.

There are feminist campaigns against

men urinating standing up

Idiots and/or hygiene freaks.

sneezing too loud

Idiots.

spreading our legs

Idiots

setting air conditioning to a comfortable temperature

wat

Essentially it's wrong to be born male

Strawman.

Feminism is the new religion. Like religion it encourages hysterical, baseless fear among its followers based on outright lies. Like religion it silences free speech, open discussion and the slightest hint of dissent. Like religion it relies on self-appointed police to point accusatory fingers at everyone, hoping to distract and terrorize people too much to question it.

Do you realise I could replace the word "feminism" with "anti-feminism" or whatever you would call your stance? I dunno that it's fear but whatever sentiments and feelings you and your like have about feminism, they certainly come across as hysterical and baseless. And as I mentioned, your stance does not really encourage open discussion.

[–]Slim_Shady_SIT_DOWN 57ポイント58ポイント  (4子コメント)

Oh my god, thank you. I don't actually know enough to engage in any meaningful debate on this topic, but it's good to see someone who does know enough engaging that post. It was inflammatory, full of angry buzzwords, without sources, and (most infuriatingly) showered with upvotes.

[–]FinlandAAR 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Reddit is awful.

[–]superfish13 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

And yet here you are...

[–]soundslikeseagull -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

While this thread shows what I think is one of the darkest sides of Reddit, sometimes it can be less awful.

[–]illseeyoudrum -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you feel alone when reddits misogynism is off the charts you are welcome in /r/thebluepill

[–]Diogenes-- 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

Title IX seems ... like a good idea executed poorly

Title IX is the idea of letting university administrators - office workers - handle a very serious crime instead of letting the people whose careers are based in fighting crime (police and court system) do it. I can't see how it's a good idea in any way.

Strawman. In terms of false allegations, the common claim made by feminists is that the percentage of false rape allegations is similar to the amount of false allegations in general. Research supports this.

It's not a strawman. Title IX assumes that women never lie. Why else would you punish someone without due process?

I'm hesitant to put any faith in feminist "statistics". Two of the most popular feminist statistics are the debunked wage gap and 1 in 4/5/6 myths.

A much more revealing look at false allegations is a program which taught women to say "no" if they don't want to have sex and in doing so, cut the assault rate by 50%. From this it could be argued that 50% of accusations are false. http://www.cotwa.info/2015/06/study-shows-rape-rates-sharply-reduced.html

You're being told that being male makes you statistically more likely to perpetrate crimes of a sexual nature. This is based on statistics and the object of consent classes is, weirdly enough, to teach what consent is because guess what, a lot of men have a hard time figuring it out.

Racists say the same thing about black and Muslim people. I wouldn't because part of the statistics they cite are due to socioeconomic status, part due to racism and racial profiling. And mostly because it's a horrible and bigoted thing to say. But I wouldn't expect a feminist to not be horrible and bigoted against men.

Disagree. Child abuse perpetrators in 2012 were 53.5% female. Considering that kids spend more time with their mothers than their fathers, I'd say this indicates that men and women are mostly equal in this case.

Abuse statistics come mostly from more obvious forms of abuseg physical and sexual. If the emotional, psychological and verbal abuse, neglect and manipulation favored by women were better understood and more easily quantifiable the numbers would be far greater. Have a look at r/raisedbynarcissists sometime. Note that "Nmom" appears much more frequently there than "Ndad" and the amount of harm women can cause without touching their children. And that's just one specific type of crazy mother (NPD). There are others.

This is not nearly as cut-and-dry as you would make it seem. There is still research that shows that job applications are more favourably rated when they are thought to come from men, for example. Furthermore, while the "real" or unexplained gender gap is estimated (in the US) to be around 5-6%, the point can be made that the explained gender gap (ie. the gap resulting from choices such as maternal leave) is a symptom of inequality; feminists are working hard to ensure paternal leave rights which, apart from being a huge boon to men, could over time change the child-rearing dynamic. In other words, the extent of the gender gap issue is highly debatable and simply claiming that it is made up really does nothing to engender debate.

Studies have shown women are more likely to get into university for STEM and more likely to get hired in the fields once they have a degree. What's really happening is that one of feminism's core beliefs is wrong. We are not all blank slates until society conditions us to fall into a gender binary. Gender differences have been scientifically observed in newborns and infants. And the more gender-equal a society, the greater the gender disparity in career choice. I recommend the Norwegian documentary "Brainwash" which goes in depth about a lot of this.

wat

There is a feminist campaign against air conditioning in workplaces because men prefer a colder temperature than women. They try to give it environmental appeal by saying that it will save energy to use less air conditioning. Oddly they don't want to save energy by using less heat in the winter... This is the type of thing happening more and more as feminists have accomplished their goals but don't want to stop fighting. They just look for tiny little non-issues to get mad and fight over. It's no surprise women are less happy than they were 30-50 years ago. Anyone being taught to be permanently angry, bitter, hateful, indignant and offended by a movement claiming to support them would end up unhappy.

[–]aagha786 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Title IX is the idea of letting university administrators - office workers - handle a very serious crime instead of letting the people whose careers are based in fighting crime (police and court system) do it. I can't see how it's a good idea in any way.

That is absolutely wrong.

Title IX states that: No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

Source: http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/tix_dis.html

[–]remix951 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dear Colleague

[–]Diogenes-- -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that clears that up. All the innocent young men who have been expelled under t9 aren't real.

[–]OrneryOldFuck 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ok, I'll bite.

Strawman. In terms of false allegations, the common claim made by feminists is that the percentage of false rape allegations is similar to the amount of false allegations in general.

Nobody said that feminists make false allegations at a rate higher than non-feminists. Hence, no straw man.

VAWA received bipartisan support and as such it's wildly unfair to simply blame feminists for it.

It certainly was not the MRA's that supported that legislation. Even non-feminists can be persuaded by pressure from women's groups. That alone should be enough to debunk the tinfoil hat worthy "patriarchy," conspiracy theory, but once again feminism has more in common with religion than critical thought.

the object of consent classes is, weirdly enough, to teach what consent is because guess what, a lot of men have a hard time figuring it out.

Bullshit. In my college at least, a wildly disproportionate amount of tone was devoted to the notion that if you and a girl are both drinking and sonething sexual happens that you are a racist. Part of the issue here is the "teach your sons not to rape," bullshit. The vast majority of men don't need to be taught not to rape. Those who are doing the raping know damn well that they are wrong. It just doesn't matter to them.

In other words, the extent of the gender gap issue is highly debatable and simply claiming that it is made up really does nothing to engender debate.

Not so much. The 77% is based on the income of every person in any career, any amount of time on the job, any time off, etc. The original study even says so. There is nothing ambiguous about it, there is exactly one side of the debate who are twisting the truth and shouting down any who dissent. The remaining 5-6% can be any number of factors, not the least of which being that men tend to negotiate their wages more, and tend to negotiate more favorable outcomes, and spend more time at work. Where exactly the actual 1-3% (if that much) comes from is anybody's guess. Occam's Razor would suggest that some unknown factor is at play rather than some systematic shadow conspiracy operating unknown to HR departments nationwide in contravention to the law.

setting air conditioning to a comfortable temperature

wat

Google, "sexist air conditioning," some time.

Essentially it's wrong to be born male

Strawman.

Not really. Given all the anti-male examples goven it isn't a bad conclusion. You seem to think that calling out "Strawman," makes your argument valid but as near as I can tell Strawmen are to you as giants are to Don Quixote.

I dunno that it's fear but whatever sentiments and feelings you and your like have about feminism, they certainly come across as hysterical and baseless.

Not from where I'm sitting. And the anti-femibist camp has accurate statistics without the need for misrepresentation (a la pay gap), or the invention of a huge conspiracy that can't be proven (muh patriarchy) upon which to base pur conclusions.

And as I mentioned, your stance does not really encourage open discussion.

I don't think anyone really thinks that open discussion is in the cards on this issue. I have had exactly one open discussion on this topic and tye arguments on the feminist side were entirely appeal to authority and the sources were garbage. Cries of "misogynist, sexist, racist," and a laundry list of other -ists are practically inevitable and those of us who don't choose to engage in falsely labeling our detractors have noticed the trend.

[–]SoSoBroke 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

Okay so is there any measure we could take to combat rape that wouldn't piss you off? I mean I understand that rape is weird because it's always his/her word against his/hers, so I get when people are hesitant to imprison or expel someone but consent classes are so minimal that I don't see what we could do about rape that's LESS intrusive. Do we have to just accept its frequency as a fact of life?

[–]butt-plug -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you are talking about rape as in someone attacks another person and has sex with them against their will, then the justice system is doing its best to punish these offenders just as it does with murderers, if you are talking about two intoxicated people having sex and then regretting it the next morning, it should be considered just that, a mutual mistake, not rape

[–]SoSoBroke 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Soooo no, we can't do anything about it.

[–]burgembira 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nobody said that feminists make false allegations at a rate higher than non-feminists. Hence, no straw man.

It doesn't seem like you understood what /u/SoSoBroke wrote... "In terms of false allegations, the common claim made by feminists is that the percentage of false rape allegations is similar to the amount of false allegations in general" means a completely different thing. It means people make false rape allegations at the same percentage as people making false allegations of other crimes.

[–]DJAY112 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting how every example of modern feminism you didn't like was brushed off as "idiots".

[–]KuntaStillSingle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The issue is the label feminism. Some people attach it to sensible ideas and some people attach it to shit, and no matter how decent something is you don't want anything to do with it when it is constantly dragged through shit. Don't say "I'm a feminist." Say, "I think men and women should be equal and here is how," or "I consider myself a feminist in that I support x, but it is my responsibility as a feminist to vocally oppose those 'feminists' that support y as we are part of the same movement but they are clearly not representing our ideals and using our name to push through shit, dragging it along through with them."

If you are part of a body or movement and advocate it, but do not make explicit it's ideals or try to guide it when it goes astray, you can be contributing to a toxic power structure dictated by nutjobs, and if you are not up to fighting false feminism you should dissasociate yourself from it to avoid contributing the strength of the false-feminist bloc. You never want to be a part of the 90% when someone says "90% of people are feminist that believes men should be in cages, get with the times and do the right thing, the feminist thing. Vote to put men in cages." If you are powerless to influence the end message the best you can do is avoid being in the 90% side of it.

[–]knife_music 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Okay. So, if (physical only) child abuse happens equally, and it would be a good idea to teach both if you were gonna teach anyone, why are men the only ones taught not to rape? I mean, obviously, women never rape, do they?

[–]Kitbixby 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The o my comment I have is in regards to your statement that many men don't know what consent is. You could argue that many women don't know what it is either. Women are allowed to get shit faced, have sex with a guy--who's also shit faced--and then blame him for raping her on the grounds that he should know better. If both parties were black out drunk it is nearly impossible to know without outside evidence if it was consensual, or if she woke up the next morning and regretted her decision. Also, women rape to, so they should be taught along with the men what consent is and what isn't.

[–]aspen____ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wish you ended your post with-

"Fuck feminism"

No. Fuck you.

mic drops

[–]Triggcrfinger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice job addressing his arguments.

[–]TheRealKrow -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

VAWA received bipartisan support and as such it's wildly unfair to simply blame feminists for it.

Pretty sure this was being pushed through in the 80's. At a time when neither side was going to go against feminism because it hadn't been exposed as cancer yet. Rest assured, feminism was the driving force behind VAWA.

I think it was the same group that pushed to redefine (under law) rape as penetrative, effectively erasing thousands of male rape victims.

[–]Unusual_ghastlygibus -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't just blame all the silly positions people take through feminism on "idiots", those idiots are actually a significant fraction of people who consider themselves feminists. Feminism doesn't have a bible, it doesn't have a prophet, it is what feminists make it to be. When people like OP hate on feminism, they don't hate on the movement that gave women the right to vote, or allowed them to pursue higher education. They hate on the modern iterations of feminism which are, exactly as you put it, idiotic. And it might be a lot more mainstream than you think, even Gloria Steinem who would be considered a pillar of modern feminism has made comments like "women that vote for bernie sanders only do it to impress boys", implying that REAL women would vote for Hillary Clinton because she's female. That is the kind of vile sexism that people who denounce feminism are against.

[–]SoupOrJuice13 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're being told that being male makes you statistically more likely to perpetrate crimes of a sexual nature.

This has been proven false so many times it's ridiculous how many times I see this stated. Most of your other points were argued against by others, but I wanted to comment on that specifically. TL;DR has a great video on this, I'll find it if you want (with sources and everything).

[–]redpillcynic -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/the redpill

[–]poiumty -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you realise I could replace the word "feminism" with "anti-feminism"

No, you could not. Well you could, but then it'd be like calling atheism a religion, and it wouldn't serve to convince many people. Certainly not as accurate an appraisal of the current situation.

Feminism and social justice exhibit cult-like symptoms. I've seen enough ideology and narrative-pushing to know how this goes. Blind faith, lies, propaganda, the devil patriarchy, false statistics and incessant rhetoric that serves no purpose but to create fear and loathing. You can call everyone who's an extremist "idiot" but it doesn't change the fact that they're in the mainstream, and they're pushing these ideas, and I've not seen one single 3rd wave feminist stand up against them.

You want to turn me around and make me like the movement? Criticize yourselves. Write for blogs and outlets about what's wrong with the movement. Stand up to the morons imposing retarded ideas. Clean yourselves up, acknowledge that problems in the West aren't nearly as important as elsewhere, exercize moderation, stop defending bullshit statistics, stop with the "women are oppressed" mantra, stop hating men, stop pushing the narrative that hates men, stop participating in the oppression olympics (intersectionality, hint hint), stop acting like you're above criticism.

[–]The_Drider -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Indeed, many feminists are campaigning for men's rights in areas like domestic violence, custody cases, etc.

Those aren't feminists. Well they are, but not the kind of "feminists" that someone means when they use the word online. We're really having a language issue here as we are using the same term for two almost opposite groups, and so are those groups themselves. The feminism that reddit hates is exclusively 4th wave feminism (and sometimes 3rd wave) also known as "tumblr feminism". The feminists you're talking about are more feminists in the classic sense, so 1st/2nd wave, choice feminism, etc... all the kinds of feminism that 4th wave feminists consider just as evil as MRAs. Classical feminists that genuinely care about issues of both genders and don't see themselves as perpetual victims of an imaginary patriarchy are absolutely awesome, and most anti-4th-wave people I've talked to would agree on this (anecdotal, I know).

Do you realise I could replace the word "feminism" with "anti-feminism" or whatever you would call your stance? I dunno that it's fear but whatever sentiments and feelings you and your like have about feminism, they certainly come across as hysterical and baseless. And as I mentioned, your stance does not really encourage open discussion.

As someone else has pointed out, the post you responded to was indeed a bit hostile, but not hostile enough to completely shut down reasonable discussion - as evidenced by the fact that you started reasonable discussion in response to it.

The "replace feminism with anti-feminism" idea is completely and demonstrably wrong:

baseless fear

This is the closest to applying to anti-feminism, however the fears of anti-feminists are not baseless as 4th wave feminism is gaining legitimate traction IRL and therefore could cause real damage outside of just tumblr. However a lot of anti-feminist posting is just as sensationalist as feminist posting, as anti-feminists like to be outraged by feminism. I see this as a way of venting their frustration about 4th wave feminism, and therefore consider it healthy and not really an issue.

based on outright lies.

Can you provide an example? I can't think of any anti-feminist talking points that are outright lies. I've obviously run into some that weren't 100% accurate or were outdated/out of context in the form they were presented, but there's a huge gap between that and outright lies.

silences free speech, open discussion and the slightest hint of dissent

This is the most demonstrably wrong across the board. If you compare major anti-feminist youtubers (which, based on the support they are receiving from the anti-feminist community, are the closest thing the movement has to public figures) with major feminist youtubers you will see that anti-feminist youtuber's virtually never disable their comments even when they're filled with mostly dissent, whereas a vast amount of prominent feminists on YT and other parts of the internet disturbingly often resort to blocking people (there's pre-programmed "block lists" they use, google it) and disabling their comments, then crying about "harassment". While I am of the opinion that it is within anyone's right to disable their comments or block anyone they wish and I don't hold that against them, you definitely cannot tell me that anti-feminists "silence free speech/dissent" either as much as feminists do if major internet feminists seem to silence dissent at every opportunity whereas anti-feminists actively avoid doing so at every turn.

Good examples of YT personalities that would consider themselves to be "anti-feminists" at least regarding 4th wave feminism: Sargon of Akkad, Thunderf00t, The Amazing Atheist, Mr Repzion, Armored Skeptic, anyone who can think of more feel free to add to this list. These people don't agree on every issue of course, which further shows that differing opinions are very much accepted amongst anti-feminism.

That is all.

[–]upro 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

Perhaps human beings cannot survive without some sort of group indoctrinating them with an ideology.

[–]Cs0331 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

This....People say religion is disappearing...it's just changing

[–]TheRealKrow 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I heard about something called the Horseshoe effect in regards to these ideologies.

It's the theory that the more extreme an ideology gets, the more it becomes like its exact opposite counterpart. Much like how sex negative feminism shares many points with puritan stuff.

[–]Cs0331 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Same with the extreme liberals and extreme conservatives they pretty much have the same views

[–]EuroTrash69 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/FglPf14.gif

[–]the_mighty_moon_worm 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, should you really base your opinion of an entire subset of egalitarianism because of its failures? You might as well say " fuck the Civil Rights Movement" because it lead to riots in L.A.

[–]honeybee_90 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would like to ask where your facts are for some of these comments? I am a feminist and would love a neutral discussion based on systematic evidence if you have some. I in no way look to harm men, or discriminate against them.. I wish to aim for equality for all.. you can just look at the current women's soccer teams pay fight as popular media evidence.. So I do believe that some of your comments unfortunately do not stack up to current evidence, such as statistics supplied by wgea.gov.au - have a squiz at their site and let me know if you want to chat about it!

[–]Cunt_Smacking_Dongle 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Duke lacrosse, UVA, Mattress Girl, Yale Basketball Captain, etc... The crazy thing is, every rape on campus case that gained some serious hype in the media ended in, "turns out she was lying." I'm not saying women typically lie about rape. I'd believe that the majority of serious rape accusations (where she goes to authorities or the police) are real, but false accusation is prevalent enough that the lack of due process given to male students in cases of accused rape is egregious.

[–]lapse_of_taste 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or maybe the problem is that news reports about false rape allegations generate more clicks and views than reports about actual rape and are thus overrepresented in the media?

[–]Nacksche 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aaaand of course he posts to /r/mensrights and /r/MGTOW. I mean do what you want, that doesn't bother me. But a majority upvoting this crap is a bit depressing.

[–]noidentityattachment 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

5/5 new copypasta m8

[–]Slim_Shady_SIT_DOWN 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

Feminism says women are people, but people often lie and women never do, apparently.

Rationality has no place in feminism.

thanks to feminism and as usual, she gets the r/pussypass.

feminists hate being treated the way they treat others.

Step aside logic, feminism is here to shit all over you!

Essentially it's wrong to be born male.

Feminism is the new religion. Like religion it encourages hysterical, baseless fear among its followers based on outright lies.

Fuck feminism.

Setting aside the content of your post (I don't know enough about these topics to intelligently weigh in on the matter), I think you could benefit from using less antagonistic wording. As I have recently been informed, angry phrases only evoke angry responses, and that's not how you set the foundations for a compelling debate.

EDIT: Alright, alright. I get it, my own hypocrisy is noted. I reacted to vitriol with more vitriol. I toned down my message.

[–]MantorokBeatsAll 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

They aren't buzzwords, you just don't understand. I'll translate.

Feminism says women are people, but people often lie and women never do, apparently.

Title IX is expelling men based on accusations, even if criminal investigations side with the man, and no charges are filed. Therefore they are treating women as if they never lie

Rationality has no place in feminism.

Feminists never have rational discussions with their opposition. The only way you can know this is if you've tried. I'm assuming you haven't. Go to any feminist subreddit and post something that argues with any Feminist theory or teaching. You will be banned.

/r/feminism itself is so bad that they routinely ban feminists from it for even appearing to argue or disagree. Pretty sure there was a subreddit at one point for people banned from /r/feminism. It appears to be private now though.

thanks to feminism and as usual, she gets the r/pussypass

She is not subjected to the same treatment because she is female. That's what the pussypass is. Having a vagina means you are not suject to the same punishments as those without one. There are tons of examples of this. I'm sure if you were honest with yourself you could admit that you've seen it yourself many times.

Essentially it's wrong to be born male.

I don't even get how you could argue with this. They actually have classes to tell men not to rape. They are literally saying that men are born sexual predators and need to be taught not to be.

This is much worse than if you had a class that taught women not to be hysterical, and learn to control their emotions. And people would flip their shit - especially feminists - if these were even proposed.

Feminism is the new religion. Like religion it encourages hysterical, baseless fear among its followers based on outright lies.

It uses fear to control its base, and uses shame to quieten dissenters. And above all, you adhere to the Dogma and dissenters are labeled as some sort of evil or shameful group.

Different opinion Feminist views? Misogynist

Different opinion on rape? Rape Apologist

And on and on the list goes of different names they come up with to try to shame people in to not arguing that viewpoint, while simultaneously painting the opposing group as something shameful to be a part of.

Fuck feminism.

Pretty self explanatory.

Honestly, if anyone wants to know why people feel this way, the information is out there, you just have to consider for a minute that people saying "those with x view point are x label and should be ignored" are not being honest.

You have to stop being afraid of being labelled as something.

[–]rotten_tomato_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Completely agree. When people hear feminism they think legal equality for women. Few people are arguing against that.

Modern feminism (third wave) is nothing short of man hating. It's important to make that distinction otherwise people get into these kind of arguments.

[–]incrediboy729 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

r/feminism is the epitome of this joke. Almost as bad as TwoX.

[–]I-Will-Fite-U-Bro -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feminists never have rational discussions with their opposition. The only way you can know this is if you've tried. I'm assuming you haven't. Go to any feminist subreddit and post something that argues with any Feminist theory or teaching. You will be banned.

I agree with everything you have said apart from this one argument (not the conclusion but the implementation of the argument) go on any activist/niche sub and disagree with someone and they will kick off and make nothing but irrational arguments based on belief as oppose to logic. The same can be said for the manbabies on /r/mensrights for example.

[–]YourDadLovesMyCock 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

hate-filled buzz words.

lol that is so hypocritical I think I just shit glitter.

[–]pmmedenver 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice cherry picking. You took what he said completely out of context and completely missed all the good points he made. Here, watch me do it to you so I can make you seem evil too:

jesus fucking christ

Do you read what you write?

you sound like a biased asshole

Your post reads like a clickbait

shit piece I'd see on facebook

I was going to copy and paste your response that you gave to him and put it here, but its too fucking easy. I'll just say that it would still make sense.

[–]OnePunkArmy 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

Also double standards. The best example I can think of is when a teacher has sex with an underage student.

  • Male teacher + female student = "Lock him up!"
  • Female teacher + male student = "Nice..."

[–]PM_MY_PSYCHIC_TURTLE 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, but every time I hear one of those, "Nice..." comments, it's coming from another dude. Women are usually the ones wondering WTF a grown woman would want with a pubescent kid.

[–]Aiskhulos 13ポイント14ポイント  (8子コメント)

Uh, what exactly makes you think this is the fault of feminists?

As opposed to the dominant social stereotype that say men always want sex, regardless of the circumstances?

[–]pornpornpppp 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Dominate social stereotype perpetuated by women. Men don't always want sex, and any man knows this, and doesn't perpetuate this idea. It's the girls who don't accurately understand the minusia of sexuality and arousal that are to thank for this one.

[–]Aiskhulos 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Dominate social stereotype perpetuated by women.

Got any evidence for that?

I see it perpetuated by other men just as much, if not more than women.

Beyond that, even if that were true, not all women are feminists, so again, it can hardly be blamed on feminism.

[–]remix951 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Got any evidence for that?

[–]The_Drider -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

it can hardly be blamed on feminism.

That's actually fair enough. I do think feminism can be blamed for not addressing this sexist double-standard against men despite pretending to care about sexism against all genders, in fact even actively dismissing it at times.

[–]NicoleNguyen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure, some women perpetuate this stereotype, but unfortunately, so do some men and fathers especially when their daughters begin to explore dating. Time after time, my dad has expressed to me that men are no good and just purely want sex from me in any situation, and if they're being nice, they're trying to get some. When I inquired if these behaviors represented him accurately, that shut him up. Don't blame this purely on women, men do it too.

[–]Debased27 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Duluth model really has no place in the modern world. It's a biased heuristic that is shown to be flawed each and every time a victimized man gets arrested or domestic violence occurs within a same-sex couple. Something needs to happen in this country to fix the justice system.

[–]Heyitskristin918 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Bud feminism isn't a group where people go to come up with ways to limit men's rights. It's just people agreeing that women are treated unfairly.

And pal that law is bad but sexual assault rates in colleges are fucking ridiculous, the law is drastic but we are approaching a majority of women having been raped. As the conversation develops more men are coming forward too, don't blame a shifty law on femenism. Blame it on poor government.

[–]Diogenes-- -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

0.1% for all sexual assaults including but not limited to rape. With roughly an estimated 2/3 not reported that puts it at 0.3%. Rates are lower on campus than off. Like I said, hysterical baseless terror. In the past people like you felt the same about witches.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

[–]Heyitskristin918 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Legal rape =/= assault. If you want to get into semantics fine.

http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

20% of women, now 1/8 men since that paper was published. It only continues to grow as education spreads and more people come forth. You have nothing to lose by admitting this is a problem, why do you choose to deny that it's dangerous?

[–]Diogenes-- 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

nuh uh! My statistics r better than urs!

Whatever. Your solution is to brand all men rapists. If you support "teach him not to rape", you logically would support "teach muslims not to be terrorists". You don't, of course, since you don't hate muslims.

[–]Heyitskristin918 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy fuck dude I said none of that. Rape as a problem is entirely separate from men, enforcing the gender divide further I think is very anti femenist. "Teach men not to rape" is just a weird slogan. Conversations about assault would help it be less of a taboo, and hopefully be properly addressed.

[–]just_had_to_comment -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

damn, those are the words iv been looking for. if i wasent broke id give you gold.

[–]triogenes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well put, brother.

[–]Pelxus -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why are you assuming they're male?

[–]Thin-White-Duke 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Title IX has also allowed women to have equal opportunity in school.

[–]Sketch257 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

In other words we're told that being born male makes us such horrible people

You're being a little overdramatic, don't you think?

[–]Diogenes-- -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Imagine a society which assumes all women to be child abusers. Imagine posters all over the place depicting a woman abusing a child and big, accusatory lettering instructing women "DON'T BE THAT MOM!". Imagine all women attending university being required to attend "Teach her not to abuse!" classes taught by open misogynists. Imagine women opting not to do everyday stuff like take their kids shopping or to the park because it was so common for the police to be called when a woman was seen anywhere near children.

That's what being a man is like. It's not dramatic, it's reality.

[–]Sketch257 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what being a man is like. It's not dramatic, it's reality.

As somebody who is also a man, one that goes to a particularly liberal public uni, I still think you're being overdramatic. You're taking something that isn't meant to be personal VERY personally. Literally every seminar I've done (three total, one for each year) was required by both men AND women to take, AND addressed rape/sexual assault by both men and women. It was surprisingly egalitarian (due to the mental image of them I've gotten from reddit threads).

What kind of university are you going to/have you gone to where you're shamed for being male? I'm genuinely curious if this is true so I can tell people to avoid it.

EDIT: Jesus, you go on some pretty bitter subs, you alright man?

[–]-d0ubt -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have insane sister, can confirm.

[–]davidicusrex 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

tiiiiiiiime is on my side, yes it is.

[–]io55 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The 77% pay gap and 1 in 4/5/6 myths have been thoroughly debunked yet feminism continues to perpetuate them. Step aside logic, feminism is here to shit all over you! What we say is true because we say so, and if you bring up that rational, scientific, statistics shit that proves us wrong you're an evil misogynist!

Yes, whoever started using the 77% figure wasn't very smart. Heck in my country some activists actually managed to miscalculate the equal-pay-day.

That said, the pay-gap hasn't been 'debunked'. There are studies comparing men and women doing the same job and they still find a small gap. Depending on how it's defined and who calculates it women seem to earn 2-10% or so less for the same work. E.g on wikipedia the corrected pay-gap is quoted to between 4.8% and 7.1%.

And there are also other studies hinting that discrimination still exists. E.g. applications without information about gender make it more likely for women to be hired.

So, as so often. Neither the people exaggerating the problem nor the ones denying it are right. It's still there but it's much smaller than it seems at first sight.

[–]OttawaPhil 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, this was very well written, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[–]JELLOPICKLE -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

A fine example of what feminism in the West has become. Its fucking crazy, I go to a pretty big university here in Canada and I've had this shit thrust on me from the very get go. More focus needs to be put on where feminism, and other social changes are actually needed, predominately Islamic countries where woman's rights are generally much lower.

[–]Culhwch_Mabinogi -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Just to clarify, Title IX investigations absolutely involve a lot of fact gathering and many people looking over evidence. You cannot get expelled on an accusation alone. Furthermore, Title IX doesn't actually render the decision to permanently dismiss a student–the Student Center for Ethics and Standards does.

You have to remember that Title IX is not a criminal investigation, despite it occasionally investigating crimes. Title IX's "goal" is to make sure everyone has equal access to education, and sexual assault is (rightfully, obviously) considered a form of sexual harassment and sexual discrimination. Which is why most universities aren't obligated to report Title IX violations or assaults to the police without the victims consent. They aren't investigated a criminal act, they are investigating instances of discrimination.

[–]Never_Been_Missed 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Title IX investigations absolutely involve a lot of fact gathering and many people looking over evidence. You cannot get expelled on an accusation alone.

You're right. They wait until they can hold a Kafkaesque secret meeting to which you are not allowed to face your accuser or bring legal council to tell you what evidence you're not provided through discovery you're being expelled for.

That sounds much better than a unilateral expulsion based on one person's accusation.

[–]unklestinky 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

You cannot get expelled on an accusation alone

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/17/accused-is-guilty-campus-rape-tribunals-punish-without-proof-say-critics.html

[–]TheAlexBasso 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As with anything, the loudest most radical people are often the most heard members of a group. The vast majority of women just want you to stop being dicks to them.

[–]darth_hotdog 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Before you antifeminists down vote me and move on because you disagree, demonstrate that you're above what you accuse feminists of being and really read and critically examine the truth of what I say…

Title IX, pushed through legislation by feminism, allows universities to expel male students based on an accusation alone.

That law is an anti-discrimination law that says that women and minorities can't be discriminated against. It has nothing to do with rape accusations and the reason they can expel student is that they are private universities that can make whatever decision they want as long as it's not discriminating against protected classes.

Clearly you're saying it's feminists fault for not asking this law to cover accused rapists. But that seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

VAWA, based on the Duluth model and pushed into legislation by feminism, requires the police to arrest the man in domestic violence disputes,

Completely false and every way, Vawa is not based on the Duluth model, contains no gender specific text, and requires police to arrest the "primary aggressor" in a domestic violence situation.

Men's rights groups argue that the "primary aggressor" is automatically men because men are stronger and will do more damage to a woman even if acting in self-defense. But again, a bit of a stretch and not anything to do with what you're actually saying.

Upon entering university, we are taught by feminists not to rape in compulsory consent classes

No one I know has ever had that happen to them. But I've been told not to rape people is so offensive to you…

In other words we're told that being born male makes us such horrible people that we need specialized training by people who hate us or we'll egregiously harm other people.

I think being born makes people horrible if they're not taught otherwise, yes people need to be taught not do a lot of bad things in life. The wide prevalence of rape in this world verifies that, or are you arguing that rape is not an issue?

The 77% pay gap and 1 in 4/5/6 myths have been thoroughly debunked yet feminism continues to perpetuate them.

No study ever done has ever disproven those statistics. Around one in five women are raped in their lifetime, yes a single study done in the 60s had flaws in the language, but every single study ever done since then to verify that number and fix that errors has come up with the same numbers.

Women do make 77% of the money men make on average. I'm familiar with the antifeminist argument, citing that that it is caused by differences in job position, hours worked, education, and experience. What you're probably not familiar with is the fact that those differences only account for 60% of the gap. 40% of that difference in pay is unaccounted for and is generally attributed to discrimination.

Not to mention, it's really bizarre to me that people think that "differences in job position, hours worked, and experience" are not themselves caused largely by discrimination.

He's a really good study that exposes how subconscious gender bias causes a large portion of the wage gap: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/

Step aside logic, feminism is here to shit all over you! What we say is true because we say so, and if you bring up that rational, scientific, statistics shit that proves us wrong you're an evil misogynist!

It's usually the other way around in my experience, I cite sources proving the wage gap, and people respond saying "no, this was debunked, everybody knows it!" With the same sort of dogmatic blind attitude that people accuse feminism of

I'm curious how you will respond to my scientific logical argument that the wage gap is real… Here's a few more sources just to make sure:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/08/3424043/gender-wage-gap-myth/

http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

http://social.dol.gov/blog/myth-busting-the-pay-gap/

There are feminist campaigns against men urinating standing up, sneezing too loud, spreading our legs when we sit down and setting air conditioning to a comfortable temperature. Essentially it's wrong to be born male.

There's anti-feminist mass murderers who have mass murdered feminists on a number of occasions. I mean, if both sides are so black-and-white…

Feminism is the new religion. Like religion it encourages hysterical, baseless fear among its followers based on outright lies.

If that is truly what you despise, I expect a critical and honest and open mind from you and your fellow thinkers to my claims…

Fuck feminism.

I'm assuming you just mean the feminists in first world countries, not the women in the Middle East fighting to not be beheaded or murdered for showing skin or being raped. And of course I'm assuming you also are leaving out all the feminists in the first world who fight on behalf of those women. And of course if you happen to be wrong about things like rape rates, the wage gap, and how a lot of small silly sounding things might add up to a larger picture in which women are mistreated by society, that you wouldn't be talking about any of those women either, right?

[–]The_Drider 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

TL;DR: Modern feminism is sexist against men while constantly complaining about sexism against women. Reddit doesn't like hypocracy. The majority of reddit also happen to be either men that don't like being told they're universally evil or women that don't feel like they should have more rights than men.

[–]JerkoffJack 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

i think it's kind of annoying that you have no problem allowing the word "feminism," as in the movement to become aware of and try to fix problems that affect women, to be usurped by people who are clearly insane. "Not all men" can easily be applied to feminists. Not all feminists are insane, and there are many diverse people within the movement. It may be difficult for you to accept that it's a big world and there are a lot of different kinds of beliefs, but please at least try.

[–]Kutchyx[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rationality has no place in feminism.

heh

[–]pornpornpppp -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

In all my years of shitlording no ones quite articulated my sentiments so accurately, thank you.

[–]abo_3ali -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well put. I'd give you reddit gold if I wasn't a stingy moneygrabbing jew (figuratively).

[–]tripplowry -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, there is no doubt there are bad things done in the name of feminism. But feminism just means men and women are equal and should be treated as such, and if you believe in that, technically you are a feminist. Don't forget that when you say "fuck Feminism"

[–]tripplowry -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, there is no doubt there are bad things done in the name of feminism. But feminism just means men and women are equal and should be treated as such, and if you believe in that, technically you are a feminist. Don't forget that when you say "fuck Feminism"

[–]campag -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy fuck this post made my day. Thank you man. You are doing God's work.

Also, TIL /r/pussypass is a thing.

Edit: Ignore the irony that I said you're doing God's work when you said religion is illogical. I'm not religious but I just like the expression.

[–]DeadRat88 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Coward lol