上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 369

[–]MyUsernameIs20Digits 415ポイント416ポイント  (193子コメント)

This is amazing to me, it blows my mind. To think 35,000 years ago someone was just painting this stuff casually on the wall. Any links to more photos would be appreciated by many I'm sure.

[–]radiomorning 296ポイント297ポイント  (41子コメント)

If you're interested you should watch the doc "Cave of Forgotten Dreams." It shows the paintings in such a beautiful and captivating way.

[–]JohnPrineLyrics 113ポイント114ポイント  (28子コメント)

Werner Herzog did that one to anyone interested.

[–]subtect 53ポイント54ポイント  (24子コメント)

Best and most legitimate use of 3d I've seen. It would be a shame to not see it in 3d... (but still worth it).

[–]eperker 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember seeing it in the theater in 2d and thinking the whole time, "now, this is a movie that they should have shot in 3D." After I left, I realized it was playing in 3D in the next theater over. Anyway, that's my little cave of forgotten dreams.

[–]Magnifi-Cat 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I saw it in 2d... still blew my mind!

[–]Stacksup 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

And then radioactive albino alligators! Oh Werner, keep chasing madness.

[–]coachjimmy 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Herzog narration at its best and most out there.

[–]babycanada 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's so crazy, we just finished watching that documentary last week in my mythological studies class and now it turns out it's even more awesome?

[–]brotogeris1 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

And seeing the footprints in the dirt floor of extinct bears gave me chills! Amazing film.

[–]lancea_longini 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Excellent film. Excellent! You'll dream of lions moving across the wall.

[–]BellerophonM 51ポイント52ポイント  (5子コメント)

There's Aboriginal rock art in Australia estimated to be 40,000 years old, too.

[–]is_he_from_Gabon 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

60k+ in tbe kimberlies. They never include the oldest paintings on the planet when talking about the oldest paintings on the planet. Its really weird.

[–]RagnarLee 97ポイント98ポイント  (131子コメント)

Doesn't really surprise me. The modern man has been anatomically the same for the past 200,000+ years, maybe longer. So, being no less cognitively able than we are today, it took humans 170,000 years to figure out how to draw pictures, make jewelry, and shit? Doubt it. We just don't have evidence cause you know.. millennias passed, extreme weather, etc

[–]BandarSeriBegawan 86ポイント87ポイント  (53子コメント)

It's actually the mainstream position in archaeology that humans had some kind of cognitive development happen to us about 40,000 years ago, which appears to have given us the ability to do abstraction and thus do things like make representational drawings, and possibly begin to use modern language, though that part is speculation. The 200,000 year figure you cite is that date from which humans were "post-cranially" modern, meaning below the neck.

[–]Inquilinus 69ポイント70ポイント  (11子コメント)

That's the opinion of Klein, sure. Representing that as definitive would be false. Many paleoanthropologists disagree.

[–]Radiozero 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's only half of their field though, no? There are neurological and therefore biological markers there would know less about. Makes it a complicated question

[–]Fizzwidgy 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Non the less interesting though.

What do you mean by biological and neurological markers?

[–]cuppincayk 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

For instance, I can tell a lot of things from visual details, like the changes in bone structure over time, but there are many chemicals that get lost over time (like the ones that make up the brain), thus we are unable to discern without outside markers (like the cave paintings) when we developed, say, the processes in our brain that give us the inspiration to make a Picasso or to compose a melody. This also comes in part from our still very lacking understanding of the brain in general. At least, that is what I believe they are trying to say.

[–]Radiozero 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is pretty much my point- thanks.

[–]BandarSeriBegawan 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's obviously not definitive. I just wanted them to know that it is what is generally thought, since the person I replied to seemed completely unaware even of the possibility.

[–]RagnarLee 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, I'm aware. I actually replied to you (below) 40 minutes before you posted this. So not sure how you missed that...

I am also aware that this is a widely debated topic, and there is a stigma associated with archeologists who challenge the mainstream notion.

I am also aware that archaeologists are not an authority on matters related to cognitive development.. And in many cases aren't even analyzing skulls. You yourself, although incorrectly, touted the "post-cranial" archaeology as proof of your statement.

I am also aware that this topic is highly speculative in nature, as it is based in a literal lack of evidence prior to that ~40,000 year timeframe.

So yes, I am aware. I have considered your position, but have not accepted it. I follow archaeological news regularly, and we're always pushing our dates back. I'm pretty sure that when I'm 50, the mainstream notion will be that civilization and cognitive development is much, much older than we ever thought.

[–]EvanRWT 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's actually the mainstream position in archaeology that humans had some kind of cognitive development happen to us about 40,000 years ago.

That is absolutely not the mainstream position unless you have been asleep for the last decade or two.

This idea of "behavioral modernity" has been pretty thoroughly demolished. In the past 20 years, an increasing number of papers have appeared which show that the stuff people point to as appearing at 40,000 years actually appeared tens of thousands of years earlier. Blade and microlith technology, bone tools, specialized hunting, long distance trade, art and decoration. All of these things go back 100,000 years in the archaeological record, and probably a lot more as we push back the dates with new discoveries.

McBrearty and Brooks wrote the definitive paper that demolishes "behavioral modernity" in their 100+ page methodical and painstaking review of all of these lines of evidence, taking them apart.

See:

  • McBrearty, S., & Brooks, A. S. (2000). The revolution that wasn’t: a new interpretation of the origin of modern human behavior. Journal of Human Evolution, 39(5), 453–563.

If you want something shorter, try this:

  • Shea, J. J. (2011). Homo sapiens Is as Homo sapiens Was. Current Anthropology, 52(1), 1–35.

They don't mince words:

Paleolithic archaeologists conceptualize the uniqueness of Homo sapiens in terms of “behavioral modernity,” a quality often conflated with behavioral variability. The former is qualitative, essentialist, and a historical artifact of the European origins of Paleolithic research. The latter is a quantitative, statistically variable property of all human behavior, not just that of Ice Age Europeans. As an analytical construct, behavioral modernity is deeply flawed at all epistemological levels. This paper outlines the shortcomings of behavioral modernity and instead proposes a research agenda focused on the strategic sources of human behavioral variability. Using data from later Middle Pleistocene archaeological sites in East Africa, this paper tests and falsifies the core assumption of the behavioral- modernity concept—the belief that there were significant differences in behavioral variability between the oldest H. sapiens and populations younger than 50 kya. It concludes that behavioral modernity and allied concepts have no further value to human origins research.

[–]skysurf3000 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wouldn't it be a bit strange to explain the drawings by have "some kind of cognitive development that happened to us about 40,000 years ago"? Because it would mean that it happened at the same time in three different places: Europe, Indonesia and Australia...

[–]Inquilinus 13ポイント14ポイント  (11子コメント)

Also, it is false to say that we were only cranially modern in the past 40,000 years. We've been more or less identical post-cranially since erectus. The "revolution" you're referring to is strictly behavioral, not morphological.

[–]theFunkiestButtLovin 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

i disagree.

brain structure is morphological, even if not preserved in fossils.

[–]ulkord 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Based on?

[–]theFunkiestButtLovin 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

are you asking for the reasoning behind my statement?

part 1: your brain is morphologically very much the same as mine. as in, our speech/vision/motor control areas are the same morphological structures of the brain across different humans. therefore, morphology/structure is related to the capabilities of a given brain.

part 2:brain structure is not preserved in fossils. it's more like a footprint.

[–]Toppo 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Curious: is there some observations why we have a reason to assume the referred revolution was morphological instead of behavioral?

EDIT: I think I'm more curious that is there reason to assume the it was an evolutionary change, and not something caused by accumulation ideas and information (like industrial and digital revolutions)?

[–]jambox888 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that art is cumulative.

[–]Toppo 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yea, but I'm wondering is there a reason to assume there happened some evolutionary change 40 000 years ago which greatly helped, or even made it possible for art to accumulate. Like the cognitive ability to turn 3-dimensional objects in to figures with outlines (as there are no outlines in real life, just changes in colors). Or was this simply a result of learning without any evolutionary changes.

[–]RagnarLee 25ポイント26ポイント  (12子コメント)

And where do you think they got this 40,000 year number?

Because that's the earliest archeological evidence they have of increased cognitive development. But of course, the further back we look, the less likely were able to find archeological evidence. Circular reasoning of you ask me.

And the figure I cite , also refers to cranial capacity, which has been around ~1200cc for the past 200,000 years.

See, I have this qualm with archaeology and anthropology. Ever since the two sciences began they have been working against the mainstream notion that the earth and civilization were very, very young. And they have always been working to push the timeline further and further back, and with mainstream resistance. But if we forget completely the idea that the earth and oldest civilizations are only 6000 years old, then rationally we would consider that civilization is around the same age as modern man, 200,000 years old.

[–]yurigoul 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

oldest civilizations are only 6000 years old

Gobekli Tepe is 11,000 years old - I would consider it a civilization when people are able to build something like that

EDIT: what /u/inglesina said

[–]theFunkiestButtLovin 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

some kind of cognitive development

obelisk development

[–]hystreni 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

But wouldnt that change only occur in a localized group. Or did the people in North europe and India develop it independently

[–]Exotemporal 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've heard other dates than 40,000 before the present, such as 50,000 and 70,000 years before the present. The earlier dates are compatible with a cognitive shift towards behavioral modernity happening before we left Africa.

[–]hystreni 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bottleneck was about 70'000 so that could be a good reason.

[–]ILikeAntiquesOkay 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Humans were more abstract as their cognitive abilities increased through an increase in cranial capacity. While certain ancient humans had larger cranial capacity (Neanderthals had a CC of around 1200 – 1400, while modern Homo sapiens have a CC averaged out at 900 – 1200, or more in certain cases), it's what they do with it that counts. Perhaps as technology advanced, and the ability to have better control of their survival chances through said technology, the ability to cognitively go beyond "basic instinctual needs" perspired.

We didn't always have spears and basic technology, humans originally were tree dwelling. Followed by their main hunting methods being able to outrun prey to exhaustion.

[–]Doctor_Dafa 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you were to look at the human linage, you would have to go back 3 million years before you would find evidence of us climbing trees, but back then there were no humans as we know them today. http://phys.org/news/2010-03-evidence-humans-early-tree-dwelling-ancestors.html source.

[–]No_Morals 13ポイント14ポイント  (7子コメント)

What I think makes it really interesting is that whoever drew them probably drew a lot more. I can't draw a bear's outline that well without erasing and I like to think I'm not too bad at drawing. This person had practice.

Makes me wonder what else they were drawing on, and what type of value it had to them.

[–]Mordisquitos 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

Something we tend to forget is that we only associate early humans with caves because things in caves tend to stay undisturbed and in plain view.

Probably extremely few if any early humans lived in caves, and in the same way cave paintings were probably only a tiny fraction of their art. It's basically survivorship bias and, while I'm sure paleoanthropologists keep it in mind, I don't think popular culture does.

For all we know they might have painted rocks all over the damn place like it was the NYC subway in the 80s, built wooden decorative structures, made large statues out of clay, etc. All that was lost, save for the rare cave painting.

[–]Cybersteel 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

A million years in the future and the only thing remaining of evidence of the human race would be graffiti in the subway station...

[–]canteloupy 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

The big crust of plastic in the geological strata and the radioactive particles hanging around in nuclear retirement sites would be better clues.

[–]HonkyOFay 13ポイント14ポイント  (39子コメント)

200,000 years, and the oldest cities on record have only existed for a tiny fraction of that.

[–]trumpetspieler 19ポイント20ポイント  (8子コメント)

Makes you wonder how incomplete the record is. If somehow humans had created 17th century level society and gotten wiped out by a comet 80,000 years ago would there be any hope for evidence? People complain about littering plastic but that stuff isn't even there for a thousand years.

[–]cdurgin 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

80,000 years ago? Well if they were at a stone age level yeah there would be tons of evidence for that. First of all we know where to look, fertile river deltas are where all ancient cities were. Second we would have records of disasters such as comets or major volcanic events from geo records. Third, if a civ did start 80,000 years ago there would probably be some sort of history from of a mother language that many others could be traced to

[–]nicbrown 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those fertile river deltas are long gone now though. The sea level was tens to hundreds of metres lower than present day during the ice age. An ice age would have concentrated human habitation along coastal zones too. There may well have been proto-civilisations that existed far earlier than has been established. Not anything ridiculous like societies recognisable as 'modern' though.

[–]LongDistanceEjcltr 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

First of all we know where to look, fertile river deltas are where all ancient cities were.

Fertile river deltas which are now probably under sea. AFAIK the sea levels were about 120 meters lower 15k years ago than today.

Second we would have records of disasters such as comets or major volcanic events from geo records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis

[–]RagnarLee 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

you'd be surprised how dramatically glacial periods "ice ages" change the climate .. So places we think no one would ever live today may not have been the same as little as 10,000 years ago

[–]HonkyOFay 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also there'd be stuff buried underground. Sewers, gas mains, graves, etc.

[–]OMGSPACERUSSIA 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

There'd be plenty, really. Unless it was a very large impact, a 17th century society would've left lots of evidence scattered around a continental area due to trade and general movement of people. Hence why Republican-era Roman coins pop up in India and China.

Metal goods, stonework, landscaping, even shipwrecks in the right conditions (the bottom of the Black Sea, for instance,) can last thousands of years. I mean, it's possible there's a jar of 80,000 year old coins sitting at the bottom of the Black Sea that we just haven't found yet...but I'd think that by this point we'd have encountered SOME evidence of such an advanced society by this point.

[–]Liar_tuck 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're making the assumption that any possible older civilization would use the same technology. Particularly in terms of metal. The Native Americans had advanced cultures without metal.

[–]OMGSPACERUSSIA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

About 1/20th of that, IIRC. Some of the oldest proto-cities date from the 10,000-8,000 BC era.

[–]SeekerOfSerenity 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

FYI, millennia is the plural of millennium.

[–]RudyRusso 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

You want mind blowing? Some of the earlier works in the caves are 5000 years older than younger works. Think about that. The time difference between the ancient Egyptians and us now about 5000 years...

[–]WeakTryFail 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Found some pictures of some more of the paintings here if anyone doesn't have the time to watch the video.

[–]agumonkey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How amazing were these chemists to make paint lasts for so long.

[–]ZizLah 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry to Hi-jack the top comment, but theres alot of really cool stuff like this from the Aboriginal paintings in australia.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/a-black-and-ochre-jigsaw-20130705-2ph8j.html

These paintings depict a bird who they believe went extinct 40-000 years ago.

Turns out man's been painting for a very long time :)

[–]SaulJones 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm reading the Penguin History of the World and apparently human physiology is largely unchanged for the last ~50,000 years... pretty amazing to think that people were probably just as intelligent then as now, and learned everything through oral tradition and ingenuity.

[–]megablue 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someone that was considered genius at their time.

[–]trulytracy 61ポイント62ポイント  (28子コメント)

Interesting that it wasn't discovered until 1994. It feels like the whole world has been explored by now.

[–]Anzire 57ポイント58ポイント  (23子コメント)

Except for the ocean, who knows what kind of things will find.

[–]hoochyuchy 32ポイント33ポイント  (11子コメント)

Atlantis, mole people, fish people, Doug, who knows what?

[–]sneakygingertroll 26ポイント27ポイント  (4子コメント)

crab people

[–]Darkwr4ith 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

Taste like crab, talk like people.

[–]Republiken 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

What if normal crabs talk like crabs and taste like humans and we just don't know it?

[–]Superbugged 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then Aquaman isn't really doing his job, is he?

[–]NomadE85 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really have no idea why I said this in my head in Patrick Warburton's voice.

[–]Anzire 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

How about bizarre type of aquatic life?

[–]launcher87 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

2pac?

[–]bogdoomy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, the rumored savior of rap. He been capped up fo them holla sinz, dawg

[–]AJoyce86 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

A lot of boring flatland. Except for volcanicaly or seismically active areas, the ocean floor seems to be pretty boring.

[–]Anzire 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

How about ancient relics from sunken Ancient ships.

[–]runjcrun1 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about the crazy looking fish?

[–]Auspants 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

What about the parts that used to be the coastal population centers?

[–]Laeryken 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The part of the oceans that isn't discovered is pretty far away from the coastal areas.

[–]montoya456 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

I live near the Vezere valley in France where there are 147 caves with prehistoric paintings. I was using an excavator yesterday and found...an old Bic lighter and a broken rusty met-post.

[–]Gutterpump 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

A bic lighter? Man, those cavemen in France had it sweet!

[–]Diplomjodler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

When I was a kid, there was a general feeling that basically we know everything there is to know and there are just some gaps to be filled in. Since then our horizon has broadened indefinitely, but we've still just barely scratched the surface. There'll always be new surprises out there for us to discover.

[–]Rostov_Rocketry 28ポイント29ポイント  (20子コメント)

It's exciting to think there may be older paintings yet undiscovered.

[–]Leporad 11ポイント12ポイント  (13子コメント)

Yup, my current PhD thesis is figuring out the date of some newly discovered (by my prof) cave paintings that have been estimated to be 75000 years old :)

[–]Auspants 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

So uh, we've not heard of this how?>

[–]Mechanical-movement 36ポイント37ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't believe everything you read here

[–]Superbugged 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch X-Files instead.

[–]Reddisaurusrekts 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Scientists are by nature cautious and hesitant to feed an already over sensationalist media.

[–]IWillNotLoiter 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can you ELI5 how you figure how old these paintings are? Seems bissare to me that we can find it Out at all.

[–]Bleyo 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Doesn't radiocarbon dating only work back 60,000 years?

[–]codechino 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are other ways of dating things, and if the paintings in question are outside carbon's range, I'm sure the dating method will be a part of that dissertation.

[–]bobbycorwin123 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

here are some other methods of radiometric dating and their accuracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

[–]ClarkFablePhD | Economics 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Flair up!

[–]greywood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Where were these found?

[–]duckshoe2 78ポイント79ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not to take anything away from the paintings or the culture, but studies have shown the paintings at Altamira, Spain to be about the same age.

[–]namesrhardtothinkof 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's wonderful news! More sites of information from a different region!

[–]SeudonymousKhan 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

There is a great documentary on this place called Cave Of Forgotten Dreams.

[–]TheInternetShill 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's always cool seeing something I've studied before make its way into the news. This art gives such an interesting insight into ancient human life. If you wanted to read more about the significance of these paintings and the other art of the Paleolithic, I wrote an essay about it a couple years ago.

Here it is. In it, I examined early hominid art in order to uncover how it reflects the relationship they had with their own animality and emerging humanity. I'll actually have to reread it myself to see if this new information contradicts any of my ideas.

[–]yurigoul 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

humans left their first marks inside the Chauvet-Pont d’Arc Cave from 37,000 to 33,500 years ago, and then occupied the cave again from 31,000 to 28,000 years ago

So these people did not use these caves for a time frame longer than we are separated from the romans. Why? was the water higher? Did they move somewhere else? Did they decide it was not cool anymore?

This blows my mind on so many levels. We are not even able to do the same thing for about 100 years, and they first used it for a couple of thousand years and then didn't and then they started again and went on doing the same thing for another thousand.

[–]bobbycorwin123 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It would be on the time scale for changing climate. Maybe hunters that followed animals as they stayed in grasslands (with the grasslands migrating over eons.

[–]Thethirdtoken 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Still no evidence of the ancient people in the book of Mormon.

[–]SecularPaladin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because Smith was full of shit.

[–]revengemaker 19ポイント20ポイント  (19子コメント)

I love graham Hancock and Michael tellinger. They speak a lot on the date theories and can provide specific geographic evidence to back their theories. Both such interesting people.

[–]TylerGuest1 3ポイント4ポイント  (18子コメント)

Even though Graham Hancock isn't an actual scientist, he does put in a lot of work in that field for his writing, which I respect him very much for doing so.

[–]e_swartzGrad Student | Neuroscience | Stem Cell Biology 4ポイント5ポイント  (17子コメント)

what qualifies one to be an actual scientist?

[–]TylerGuest1 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

PhD (or any degree level, really) in a scientific field and is actively studying said field. At least that's my interpretation. Even Graham Hancock has said multiple times that he is not a scientist.

[–]Second_Foundationeer 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actively studying through the scientific method is the only requirement.. >_>

[–]hairy_jew 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The sea level was tens to hundreds of metres lower than present day during the development of the paintings here if anyone doesn't have the time to watch the video.

[–]tigerboy844 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How amazing were these chemists to make a video file from the paintings at Altamira, Spain to be the coastal areas.

[–]tattoo_vp 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

In case its not obvious some of these are massive drawings, and when you paint straight onto a wall its not like you can erase if you screw up so both whoever drew this was an experienced line artist by todays standards AND they had a way to sketch these so someone could get that good without ruining the main wall.

[–]hybridbirdman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is amazing. Are they the oldest in the world though? Australian Aboriginal rock art dates back as far as 40,000 years. http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/art/rockage.php

[–]michaelhoney 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Kim Stanley Robinson's Shaman is a (pre)historical novel about people who painted these. I highly recommend it.

[–]Fredasa 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well, good.

So when Werner Herzog claims that these paintings are the oldest known (in Cave of Forgotten Dreams), he's once again correct.

[–]ABabyAteMyDingo 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not 'correct'. It's an opinion or a hypothesis. Without evidence you can't be 'correct'. Your hypothesis may later be confirmed, of course, but that's not the same thing. We can all make guesses, predictions, opinions or hypotheses. Gathering evidence is hard work.

[–]Fredasa 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not sure why I'm responding to what amounts to sophistry, but... "oldest known" isn't very subjective. Maybe you thought I said "oldest."

[–]Nlilmtvgzoruv 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Strangely enough, and sadly, due to respiration moisture from tourists mold has spread and damaged the original cave. So it is off limits. So what do we do with great technology? A short distance away we made a replica into the bedrock. Of the most ancient paintings on the wall. Using exact copying crazy futuristic technology.

[–]teaswiss 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not true. Only a few people have ever been inside the cave. And the replica is made with artificial materials painted by artists. I think you're confusing chauvet and lascaux.

[–]shel5210 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is also a traveling exhibit. I saw it in chicago. The used a laser to scan the enire cave, and painstaking recreated the cave and the paintings. Even though it was a replica, it was awe inspiring

[–]ItsJustGizmo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think this is absolutely mind blowing stuff.

Shared it in Facebook, predict maybe one or two people will Like it..

[–]ShouldIRememberThis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ten will like, one will read it.

[–]cellar_door_found 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn´t they already think these were older than previusly though? I mean I remember the discussion in Werner Herzogs film in which some scientist said that at that moment this cave was older that previusly though.

So this is the second time that this cave gets older.

[–]TheRealMrBurns 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does anyone know what was used for the paint? How did it last so long? I skimmed the article and didn't see anything on it.

[–]beer_me_another 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So which reading is wrong? And why?

[–]bigmistakebub 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What? Didn't they radiocarbon date it before?

[–]Pokes_ItWithAStick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I found it amazing that the drawings were 'enhanced' thousands of years apart. Hell, we tear down and rebuild shit after a decade.

[–]jewishramey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Graham Hancock is on to something