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One billionaire moves south — and New Jersey's budget falls apart (csmonitor.com)

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[–]recentlyunearthed [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

One oft forgotten consequence of progressive taxation and taxing the rich and corporations heavily, is that the government needs them to keep being rich in order to capture that revenue. This gives undo lobbying power to these individuals, makes bailouts more palatable, aids cronyism and gives an avenue to stifle competition that would disrupt those oh so necessary profits and associated taxes.

[–]lemmysdaddy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

the government needs them to keep being rich not leave in order to capture that revenue

[–]Rhawk187 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Both. The problem with eating the rich is you can only do it once.

[–]DeadlyUnseenBlade [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

It isn't the governments job to keep rich people rich.

[–]pipechapLibertarian Conservative [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It is in their best interest to keep wealth creation rather than removing incentive. Wealth creation means more tax revenue.

[–]AbdulMohamedMN25 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But isn't there a fine line we shouldn't cross? We should encourage competition but is it okay with you if few numbers of people have the most money?

All societies need to function to where majority of citizens are satisfied. The middle class should have all the money, and majority of Americans should be middle class. If that doesn't happen, the 1% will continue to suck out money out of the 99% through wealth creation, you may say ok, these guys are innovative and they deserved it. But, eventually the majority of citizens won't stick for it and overthrow the government and take back what they believe is theirs. You can call it a handout or whatever term you like, but power is invested in the average citizen. This is how every single society in the past have done, and how they all got overthrown.

So it isn't really that simple to be honest. There's always will be certain number of people who are brilliant and hard working people who earned their money through blood and sweat, but not everyone can be rich.

[–]pipechapLibertarian Conservative [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

but is it okay with you if few numbers of people have the most money?

Yes, because there are only a few people in the world that can create giant business empires that generate more wealth than you or I will in our lifetimes, several times over within the course of a month or less.

The middle class should have all the money, and majority of Americans should be middle class.

Are the middle class creating all the wealth? Are the middle class somehow being robbed?

If that doesn't happen, the 1% will continue to suck out money out of the 99% through wealth creation, you may say ok, these guys are innovative and they deserved it.

Ah, so just as I suspected you believe the 1% are robber barons and not generators of wealth. You believe they are stealing from the poor rather than giving the poor jobs and keeping them from being poorer.

But, eventually the majority of citizens won't stick for it and overthrow the government and take back what they believe is theirs.

Well that's just it, you've admitted what the problem is, the majority think they're entitled to wealth they didn't create.

You can call it a handout or whatever term you like, but power is invested in the average citizen. This is how every single society in the past have done, and how they all got overthrown.

That's a little too broad and nonspecific for my tastes, especially since for example, the American Revolution was waged over taxation without representation, not income inequality.

So it isn't really that simple to be honest.

Says you, who boils income inequality down to theft by the rich and disgruntled citizens engaging in righteous revolution against the bourgeoisie.

There's always will be certain number of people who are brilliant and hard working people who earned their money through blood and sweat, but not everyone can be rich.

Do you really understand your own position on this issue? Half the time you're advocating for "taking back" stolen wealth from the rich and now you're saying everyone can't be rich because the number of wealth creators are finite.

[–]mattwilliams06 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's not their job, but the existence of big government depends on the existence of the wealthy that they are wont to ridicule. If there were no rich people, as the government sometimes implies it would like as an end-state, then paradoxically the government itself would cease to exist. This can only be solved through true socialism, where the government owns all means of production. This is why destroying the wealthy and a socialist government go hand-in-hand. Our government as it exists now would collapse if it legislated the wealthy out of existence.

[–]gprime#NeverTrump [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

I wonder which obvious fact shocks and offends liberals more: that people respond to incentives, and if overtaxed will move, or that putting such a disproportionate share of the tax burden on the most economically mobile (read: the rich) doesn't work, because they'll vote with their feet.

[–]recentlyunearthed [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Except when they can be stopped. Just as Pfizer was stopped from moving to Ireland. And as always, the solution is never, “Why can’t we make moves to be more competitive with Ireland?” It’s stop and punish those who would leave. It’s the jealous boyfriend model of government.

[–]DranoshSoCon, FinCon, antistatist, anti"equality" [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

It’s the envious neighbor model of government.

Jealousy is "Man, I sure wish I had what he had"

Envious is "Man, it pisses me off he has something I don't, if I can't have it then no one can"

[–]CronurdChristian Conservative [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Actually, in general, Envy is when you want something someone else has. Jealousy is when you are afraid of losing something you have to someone else.

[–]vox_libertatis#NeverTrump [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I think a good way to put is is that envy is "I wish I had what Bob does," while jealousy is "I should be the one that has what Bob has." It's a difference between passively wanting what another has, and believing that someone else's stuff should have been yours if some perceived unfairness didn't exist.

[–]InfernoVulpix [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

People tend to get jealous when others have more than they do because they are jealous of their prestige. If Person A tends to his hedges and has a reputation for well-shaped hedges in your neighbourhood, and then a new neighbour, Person B, moves in and creates hedge art that completely surpasses what Person A can do, Person A might feel jealous with regard to Person B, because he is jealous of his reputation for tending to hedges and is afraid of losing that to Person B. But since that string of concepts is not outwardly evident or simple, we tend to describe the emotion like 'jealous of Person B's hedges' where 'Person B's hedges make Person A jealous of his reputation for tending to hedges' would more precisely suit the definition of jealousy.

Jealousy has closer ties to defensiveness than greed. You cannot be jealous of something you do not have, but something you do not have can make you jealous of what you do have. People tend to use jealousy as a synonym for envy, and I don't really see a problem with this, since words can be used with different meanings in different contexts, but if we're going to say that jealousy is not a synonym for envy, then the only definition left is what I've detailed above.

[–]CronurdChristian Conservative [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's a good way to put it.

[–]easyasNYC [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Jealousy is being afraid that someone will take something that you have, envious is wanting what someone else has.

[–]99problemskarmaisnt1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

https://youtu.be/Tmx1jpqv3RA

[–]FriedOctopusBacon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Jealousy is to guard something covetously. Envy is to desire something covetously.

[–]wayfarin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

When it comes to taxing sugar and cigarettes, they know taxes are good incentives. When it comes to income tax disincentivizing labor, they put their fingers in their ears and go "la la la la la la".

[–]xray606 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Gee, I thought rich people supposedly don't pay taxes.

[–]MacheteSanta [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh they do. Just the Democrat party and donors do not.

[–]VirginWizard69Revanchist Conservative [スコア非表示]  (22子コメント)

So how much did this Billionaire actually forked over? Article doesn't say.

[–]Bbrainss [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

I had heard he was taxed upwards of half a billion dollars while living in NJ. He was the richest person in the state and is worth about 14 Billion dollars.

[–]VirginWizard69Revanchist Conservative [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Wow. No wonder the guy left. Why should one man foot the bill for all those low-life welfare bums.

The choice between NJ and Florida -- is it really that hard?

[–]Bbrainss [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I grew up in New Jersey. Wouldn't necessarily define it as a welfare state. You're sure as shit gonna be taxed in that state, but a land of low life welfare bums it is most certainly not.

[–]VirginWizard69Revanchist Conservative [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Do you still live there?

[–]Bbrainss [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

No. I moved. Still have plenty of family that lives there, in the same town and across the state.

[–]NeoConnie [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

How the hell are we supposed to find common ground with the 50% of the population that votes liberal when we have people like you on our side calling them things like "low-life welfare scum"

Do you really think these people are jazzed about the life they lead on the welfare we give them? Like they're sitting in their shitty section 8 apartment in top hats twirling their mustaches laughing maniacally because they managed to steal another $500 this month from us? The way to solve New Jerseys problems are to encourage business growth so that a large swath of their population increases their wealth, not to name-call and belittle the other side of the aisle.

[–]UmbrellaResearchCorpSupporter [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

How the hell are we supposed to find common ground

LOL. You don't really get it, do you?

[–]InfernoVulpix [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If we want to convince liberals of the merit of conservative policies, the place to start in a conversation would be the things that we agree on. Take the policies we agree on, explain how they fit the conservative mindset, and explain how that mindset applies to other issues that we don't agree on.

If we only ever behave as if liberals are the enemy, as opposed to people with incorrect worldviews that we can hopefully correct, our numbers will never rise.

[–]UmbrellaResearchCorpSupporter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If we want to convince liberals of the merit of conservative policies

You're not.

LOL. Go into r/politics sometimes and try to convince those there the folly of socialist liberal policies. Then come back here and tell us how you did.

[–]VirginWizard69Revanchist Conservative [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh please -- there is no common ground. Stop compromising by making excuses and lead by example.

[–]TheHeyTeam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just think how much he'd pay if he actually paid his fair share!

[–]tomorrowsanewday45 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I think there was another article that said like 290 million, but I could be wrong. I was told that the top 3% fund like 80% of the budget.

[–]VirginWizard69Revanchist Conservative [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Holy shit. That is huge.

When the money starts to dry up, what do liberals do? Increase taxes!!!

[–]secret_porn_acct [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I swear im about to leave this state over the amount of taxes my wife and I pay now. Everything in this state is absolutely expensive...except gasoline. That is the one thing that NJ is good for. One of the lowest or the lowest tax on gasoline in the nation.

[–]VirginWizard69Revanchist Conservative [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The jobless need cheap gas so they can afford to drive around looking so much for their non existent jobs.

[–]secret_porn_acct [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah pretty much.. I have never seen so many for lease signs on business buildings in my life.

[–]DarshDarshDARSH [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

lowest of the low gas taxes

And full serve too!

[–]secret_porn_acct [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Heh yea. Though I am not really for that law, it for all intents and purposes, protectionism.

I have to admit though, I have gone out of state and not realized that it was self serve for like 3 or 4 minutes until other people pulled up and started pumping themselves.

[–]TheHeyTeam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm in Texas & am in the top tax bracket. There are only a handful of states I'd consider moving to b/c of the increase in taxes I'd pay. I saved over $60k in taxes moving from CA to TX 6 years ago. I pay about $6k more in property taxes......gas is cheaper, groceries are cheaper, homes are cheaper. It was a no brainer to move.

[–]josephbologna [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I guess he was paying more than his fair share.

[–]ayePALINDROMEeyeI <3 Wisconsin! [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is incredible. Very good article.

[–]Mier- [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"I don’t think, as a share of people’s budget, that [tax cuts are] where the relief should come. We think about middle-class families that are struggling to pay for housing, childcare," she said. "We need to really think about increasing their wages."

Dear Lord they still don't get it. You cannot forcibly raise wages without the costs rising and unemployment also rising. You have to get the economy to grow so that more jobs become available, more jobs more demand for labor means more money. Of course you need to control the borders to keep cheap labor from third world keeping the wage down.

[–]Trister0 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Atlas shrugged.

[–]optionhome [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Remember that NJ still has a republican governor who has vetoed many liberal proposals to waste more tax money. Once Christie leaves office another of the usual tax and spend liberals will be elected. That should deliver the final blow to bankrupt the state. And I'm sure the lying liberal media will blame Christie for it.

[–]bckroadsnomad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Crispy Creme is going down in flames. First dropping out, then joining the dark side, and now he's running his tax base out of the state. Sad!

[–]CaptainPaintball [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Don't worry...You have 1938757 Mexicans and Central Americans to replace him!

[–]sillybun99 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Atlas Shrugged, Jersey Edition