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The Real Problem (self.reddevils)

TudoorsYoung が 投稿

The board.

5 years of severe underinvestment. We used to get away with it because of Fergie, it's not the case. I don't think Van Gaal should have been sacked in December, but I'd be shocked if he's still here next season if he can't scrape top 4.

People are disillusioned with the fact that this is now 3 years after Ferguson. I truly argue that Moyes was not a manager to change anything. Moyes tried to continue what Fergie did, and that failed. Van Gaal is unlucky, because if this had happened last year, after clearing out the squad in the first year after Ferguson I don't think people would be that against him. But now it's coming into 3 years of not being competitive, that's a big issue.

Finally, people think Mourinho will walk in and turn us competitive. No. It will still take him at the very least a year of results quite similar to the ones we had this season. We will beat the shittier teams in the league, but not be as good as the top, the opposite of this season. This squad shows today, more than ever, that when anyone brings the game to us, we can't do it. In my honest opinion, Carrick, Rashford, Lingard, Fosu, Blind (at center half), even Schneiderlin maybe, should not be starting a game like this. One or two of them should, but not all 6 of them together, no way. That's underinvestment, not Van Gaal. Who else was he going to start with? That's our best 11 which is the problem.

Ideally, I would like to give Van Gaal the third year and have Mourinho wait till December next season, but that won't happen. That is why everyone wants Mourinho this very instant. Mourinho won't win the title in his first year, and half a season is enough for him to learn the squad and acquire who he wants. Regardless of who the next manager is next season we need to buy at least 6 more players. 3 players each more than 60 million quid, and then 3 more solid squad players to be used effectively off the bench and bring real competition. Unfortunately I don't think the funds required will be allocated to either Van Gaal or Mourinho, and that is the inherent problem, not the manager, he's temporary, lack of spending is what's fucking us over this year. No class from the Fergie days. They either retired or left, and they were all in the tail end of their careers. The United rebuild was bigger than Spurs, not vice versa.

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[–]chickensoup1Beckham 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

Your almost as bad as black squire when it comes to blaming everyone and everything instead of LVG.

It's not the manager, its the players not able to play his philosophy/players aren't good enough/he needs more time/too many injuries

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

I blame Van Gaal for the capitulation. I do not blame him for how we we set up. We played well till Fosu got injured. This result was many years in the making, not just this season. The problem is not just Van Gaal.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

You don't see it as a problem that when an 18-year old goes off the entire team collapses?

It's been Warren Joyce's work that has saved LvG's job. Warren Joyce working with the youth day-in-day-out, players like TFM, Rashford, Riley, and CBJ has saved him.

The players he has bought, aside from Martial, have not performed/he has benched.

I think the biggest winner out of this horrendous season is Warren Joyce. He truly deserves a standing ovation. When his youth have come on, they have looked lively and have been a bright light in a dark season.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I do see it as a problem, but that's not Van Gaal tactically being inept, that's him choosing what he thinks will be most effective, and he was obviously right. We've seen Darmian perform on occasions this season, he will be better next year, I'm sure of it.

You do understand what I'm saying however, I know you do. This team on paper is not good enough.

That's not single handedly Van Gaal's problem. He bought 7 good players, but when a couple of them are injured, and the natural expectancy of buying young and giving them time to adapt to the league, not all of them will be exceptional off the get go.

The only argument I need for this is look at this squad, and compare it to 3 years ago. Who is still there? Carrick, Rooney and De Gea. Who was at the club as a substitute when we won the title? Practically nobody. Smalling, Young, Jones, Valencia, decent players that Fergie managed to use for his style. That's because most of the players brought in under Ferguson's last few years were not good enough, but he made do. The Glazers cut the spending of this club. We have been getting outspent by teams like Chelsea and City in the past 5 years, that was not always the case. Spending big shows ambition. Of course, Van Gaal does share the blame for this season, but not all aspects of it. I genuinely don't think we're drastically underperforming for the squad we have available. We are not overperforming however, and that is where you see the quality of a manager being able to use what he has at his disposal.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think the squad is absolutely underperforming. I've said it before I will say it again: LvG is great with youth, poor with established players.

LvG has not been able to attract world class players, and that cannot be denied. He got one: Di Maria, then coached the life out of him to the point Di Maria quit. Players talk. Players saw the way LvG treated Di Maria. Players see how LvG has treated Valdes. It's not attractive. It's despicable when a manager excludes a player from the team photo, the player does not have a locker, and the player is not allowed to train at the team's training facility.

Other players see this and it discourages them from joining a club.

This is why I want Mourinho. He can bring us world class players. We have great youth, but we need WC players.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

We're underperforming, but not drastically. On paper this squad is good enough to be in fourth, and we're in fifth. City, Chelsea, Arsenal all have better players, you can't deny that.

I don't think the reason we're not getting "world class players" is because of Van Gaal specifically, I'd be shocked if Mourinho comes in and buys this "world class talent" we're all talking about. We need men in this side, all of them are gone from the Fergie days, and we have not bought any. Men and world class aren't exclusive to one another. Mourinho will come in and get third or fourth next season with an appropriately better squad than what was left to Van Gaal from Ferguson/Moyes.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

We're underperforming, but not drastically. On paper this squad is good enough to be in fourth, and we're in fifth. City, Chelsea, Arsenal all have better players, you can't deny that.

Not sure what Chelsea have to do with this, we're far ahead of them.

I agree City do have better players, but Arsenal is debatable. Aside from Ozil and maybe Alexis, Arsenal are not all that good.

I'd be shocked if Mourinho comes in and buys this "world class talent" we're all talking about. We need men in this side, all of them are gone from the Fergie days, and we have not bought any.

I think Mourinho is a much better draw for world class players than LvG is. LvG plays boring, lifeless football, which nobody is a fan of.

Furthermore, if James is available this summer, I definitely feel our chances of landing him are better with Mourinho than LvG. There will be a stronger relationship with his agent, Mendes, if Mourinho is here. Mendes has phenomenal names as his clients, so he can definitely help the club out with bringing them here, especially since his influence at RM is waning.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chelsea's squad, which was built by your boyfriend Mourinho is better than ours.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That squad is filled with mercenaries. They show no fight, no ambition, nothing, even under Hiddink.

Some of their best players want to leave the squad: Costa, Hazard, Courtois.

[–]scotty1987 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We played well for 20 minutes. Like we always do.

[–]hitpopMemphis 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can you just fuck off with this shit? Stop posting this thinking you're bringing some sort of revelation with this useless information. Don't just say : The real problem. You wouldn't have a fucking clue what the real problem is, as well as the huge majority of the people on this subreddit, most likely including myself. How do we know "the real problem"? You don't know what goes on behind the scenes at United. You haven't got a clue. Everything you say is surface value info. So please fuck off with "The Real Problem" bull shit in hopes of getting some karma from angry people after we got beat 3-0.

[–]CalabriaStuCazzo -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't be a douchebag. It's an open thread. He has a right to his say.

[–]Entrepreneur_GirlJuan Manuel Mata García 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

We are not asking for mourinho to win the title in the first season. If everyone thinks that then they are seriously deluded. We just want Mourinho to reinforce what Manchester United is known for! He has the arrogance that goes with what the club were all about before this. We aren't a mid table team hoping to play in champions league. We are a team that fights for the top spot! We have a fortress that was created for opponents to fear coming to. There's so much of what made us who we are to the world today that has taken years to build and is taking months to destroy!

I have a lot more to say but I'm still too pissed about earlier to continue >:(

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Van Gaal has that arrogance. What he doesn't have is the players. We weren't tactically outplayed today, we were individually outclassed.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please don't get arrogance and delusion confused. Mourinho is arrogant, LvG is deluded.

I still don't understand why he played our four attacking players out of position. He should have switched Martial and Young. Mata should have come off for Herrera.

LvG's handling of Memphis's development is truly shocking and despicable. He has managed to turn one of Europe's brightest prospects into a disaster. Memphis looks scared, lifeless, and is severely lacking in confidence.

[–]SPQRRome 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Nice try Louis!

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Open your eyes. Yes we're shit. But Van Gaal isn't the only problem here. When you're lining up with 6 mid table players, that's not all his fault. Yes partially, he clearly overestimates himself, but don't tell me Mourinho doesn't overestimate himself either. We have a shit squad, and that comes from lack of investment.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Who bought a vast majority of these players? LvG.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Vast majority? In a 23 man squad, he bought 9. 2 of them are injured, that's a third of the players.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

He's bought average players, that is my point. Darmian, Herrera, Blind, etc they are all average.

Martial has the potential to be world class, but he is not there yet. The rest are average.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

3 average players, out of 9?

Not every player you're going to get is world class not even close. Mourinho is going to come in and perhaps buy one world class player this summer, the same as Van Gaal who got Di Maria, not because he was his first target, but because he happened to be available.

What matters is how these players are utilized. Darmian is hardly average, he was the best fullback in Italy for 2 years, that's not average, that's good. Blind is a very smart player, and I think he has the ability to be our holding midfielder for years to come, he's not a center half, but he's the only one we have now. He's a similar player to Carrick, and I'm perfectly okay with that.

Depay, Shaw and Martial all have the potential to be the best players in the world in their respective positions. Herrera has performed the worst of all his signings over 2 years. Schneiderlin was one of the best midfielders in the league last year.

He has not bought poorly, he has utilized poorly, that's the difference. This team is close to what is needed to be competitive, the issue is that now we're having to overcompensate in this 2 year period, to try and shade over how little we actually spent in Ferguson's latter years.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What matters is how these players are utilized. Darmian is hardly average, he was the best fullback in Italy for 2 years, that's not average, that's good. Blind is a very smart player, and I think he has the ability to be our holding midfielder for years to come, he's not a center half, but he's the only one we have now. He's a similar player to Carrick, and I'm perfectly okay with that.

Depay, Shaw and Martial all have the potential to be the best players in the world in their respective positions. Herrera has performed the worst of all his signings over 2 years. Schneiderlin was one of the best midfielders in the league last year.

You made my point. LvG is terrible with established players. Darmian started off extremely well, then his form completely dipped out of nowhere.

Schneiderlin is the same way. LvG has managed to mismanage all of our non-youth players. Like I said before, he is great with youth, not with established players.

You're right. Memphis does have the potential to be world class, but because he sits on the bench, primarily due to LvG's mismanagement, he does not get game time and experience. How is Memphis going to develop into a world class player by sitting on the bench and afraid to make mistakes when he does get that once in a blue moon opportunity to play?

[–]Polar_Bear_CuddlesHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can we just agree it is not one thing that is the problem? It's a mixture between the board, Van Gaal and the players themselves.

[–]ManUChao7Memphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

We have the best record against top teams that proves that there is much potential. Struggling to win against weak sides and in knock out games proves inexperience and Manager failure to make his players winners. Mourinho is a serial winner and PL proven with some good signings together with our young players he can teach them how to win games titles and turn them to world class. He done that many times so no worries.