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iD: Drag's Cis-Male Problem (i-d.vice.com)

MouthPopNaomi Smalls が 投稿

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[–]getthelumpout -8ポイント-7ポイント  (20子コメント)

It's less "drag's" cis-male problem and more "the world's" cis-male problem. We might be gay but drag queens (like RuPaul) are mostly still men and male privilege the world over still exists. The problems they're discussing are reflective of a society that (unfortunately) values the contributions of men over the contributions of women, but it's almost like they're saying it's an LGBT/drag specific thing. It ain't, henny.

It's like saying "no blacks, no Asians" on Grindr is gay men's racist problem. While that certainly is part of LGBT reality, it's simply reflective of racism in our society at large.

[–]UpInRusWigsAcid Betty 5ポイント6ポイント  (15子コメント)

Okay, but here's the thing. There are outlets for female drag queens. Like someone else has said, there's Vegas Show Girls, Pageants, Artists (Lady Gaga, Madonna, Cher, Better Midler, Dolly Parton) that have long gotten far more respect than biologically male Drag Queens have ever had. Their exposure on TV is limited to this program and an occasional guest spot on a talk show.

You want to talk about the valuing the contributions of Bio Male Drag Queens versus the female drag queens who are, but juts don't call themselves such? Cause we can play all day.

[–]getthelumpout -2ポイント-1ポイント  (14子コメント)

I think the point of this article was not that there aren't outlets for women to dress larger than life, but that the word "drag" is now synonymous with primarily cis-men dressing up as women. The same way when people think of the gay community/LGBT rights, gay white men typically come to mind.

Of course drag queens are still a niche community, as many LGBT things are, so exposure will be limited. But that doesn't mean that male privilege doesn't bleed over into LGBT activities as well. It does.

I'm not saying one thing or the other is necessarily true. I'm just explaining the point of the article.

[–]UpInRusWigsAcid Betty 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm sorry, but that is primarily what it is. Bio Queens are few and far between.

And how is that Drag's fault? How is people's perceived view of it the fault of the art form? Which is something that doesn't really jive with reality when you have so many people out there in the world confused on what Drag is. Thinking that it's men who WANT to be women.

It's a subversion of Gender. Drag doesn't have a problem, the world has a problem with drag. THEY don't understand it.

[–]getthelumpout -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

Drag kings also exist but one could easily say they are not given as much attention as drag queens are. The same way the WNBA exists, but it's not given as much attention as the NBA. It's neither drag queens (or NBA players') fault, but it is the reality of the world we live in.

And I didn't say it was Drag Race's fault, I said it was emblematic of a society that values the contributions of men over the contributions of women. This is just fact. Or we can go back and forth all day talking about equal pay and glass ceilings and such. But I feel like we're probably on the same side of that issue.

Sure, a lot of people in the world are not familiar with drag. But that's not the issue talked about in this article. The article is just a discussion of the greater phenomenon.

[–]UpInRusWigsAcid Betty 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Drag Kings are also a lot less extravagant. Men are boring looking, our clothes are boring. that's a fact. There's not much you can do with the transformation. And also, Drag King are far fewer. And Drag Kings are something very specific as opposed to Drag Queen. Drag Kings are specifically about the transformation to male.

The thing is Drag Queens aren't given much attention at all. It wasn't until around 2011 that they got any attention. There's more to it you can build from. There's more entertainment to be gained.

Why don't we get into the issues of why Male pageants aren't better represented?

Drag Queens aren't valued. You still hear stories of cross dressers getting the shit beat out of them. They're still looked down upon. Just because they have a show now (on a very niche channel) doesn't mean it's automatically aligned with the most mainstream of society.

[–]getthelumpout -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

You still hear stories of cross dressers getting the shit beat out of them. They're still looked down upon. Just because they have a show now (on a very niche channel) doesn't mean it's automatically aligned with the most mainstream of society.

No one is making that argument. You're arguing against something that no one is saying.

Also, what do you mean male pageants aren't better represented? Things like the Olympia and various bodybuilding competitions are fairly popular. But the reason why things like Miss Universe are so widely represented is because of the patriarchy. Men like to see women parading around in fancy clothes/bathing wear. It's the male gaze. Look at the kind of person who has run it! Donald Trump.

The pageantry of drag is no different. Men like to look at women all dolled up. This has been the case since the beginning of time (and I love drag, so don't mistake this for coming down on it).

[–]UpInRusWigsAcid Betty 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Donald Trump sold it and that is but one pageant. Now, we should give women equal representation, despite there being far fewer, in drag so we can blame the patriarchy for ogling at them? That's pretty much what it is. Your entire hang up is that what men do is more respected despite Drag not being something that is respected. So I'm confused on your defense, I really am.

[–]getthelumpout 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Drag is respected, among the people who respect it (i.e. large populations of the LGBT community and others). Just because it has not achieved wide mainstream success doesn't mean it's not respected. And just because drag queens are gay doesn't mean they don't benefit from male privilege.

[–]UpInRusWigsAcid Betty 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

And that male privilege is going to come in real handy when you're shunned by your family because they think you want to be a woman. Or they were okay with being gay, but drag is just too much. Inability to find a relationship because they want to be with a many. Dealing with inbreds who beat the shit out of you for dressing differently.

But hey! 'Least they still have their male privilege. Thank god.

[–]kristiangurlNaomi Smalls 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Okay but can we be real here... which Drag Kings are really at Landon Cinder's level? He's the only Drag King I can think of, and I think he is paving the way for future drag kings. Think of him being the RuPaul of Drag Kings

[–]rectanglegirl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah cos we like totally value some drag queen over Lady Gaga!

[–]rectanglegirl 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Men are so privileged to be able to experiment with their femininity as much as they like without scrutiny. So unfair!

[–]getthelumpout 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

?? Again, not an argument that I or anyone was making.

[–]Gamer10123Kim Chi 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

but that the word "drag" is now synonymous with primarily cis-men dressing up as women.

Do you even know where drag came from? Drag started with gay men fighting for LGBT rights, and it's mostly only in recent years that women want to join in because it looks fun on RPDR...

Plus, not even all drag queens identify as cis. There are plenty of drag queens on the show that have come out as trans or genderqueer, or whatever. It's just ridiculous that you're complaining about women being "left out" of drag, especially when women are completely free to do drag as bioqueens--it's just they're not the majority of drag queens, and it's not what RPDR is about.

These stupid, twisted "feminist" SJWs have taken it upon themselves to try to undermine gay men's struggle throughout history just because they're male... It's just ridiculous, and in the end there's very little logic behind it.

[–]getthelumpout 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Drag started centuries ago. And women did not just start dressing in drag in the last few years.

I'm not complaining about anything. All I'm saying is that male privilege exists, and men benefit from it. Drag does as well, plain and simple (and we can go back to Shakespearean times and before to see how that's true).

No one is discrediting anyone's struggle. Gay women, trans people and other members of the LGBT community have struggled as well as men. Nothing is being taken away.

[–]Its-very-thatThorgy Thor 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

/s???

[–]getthelumpout -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you asking if its sarcasm? Because...no. Haha.