I've been thinking about this a bit.

It seems that the majority of Western thought about women's orgasm are that it's extremely rare through PIV alone.

• Women require at least 15-20 minutes of foreplay before being aroused enough for sex to result in orgasm
• Even after this foreplay and PIV sex, most woman need clitoral stimulation to cum.

I think this is probably right, but for all the wrong reasons.

I think I read about a third of woman can cum from PIV. But what if these woman were with different men?

It's not because woman are just hard to sexually satisfy, it's that most woman are not extremely sexually attracted to their partner like they were historically/evolutionarily speaking.

When a woman is extremely turned on by you, foreplay isn't needed. Clitoral stimulation is not needed.

It's a mind game. It's not a physical game. No matter how much the girl wants, the mind/body is 'meh' - who needs a pregnancy?

The mental arousal is what leads to orgasm, not the rubbing of the clit and extensive foreplay. These things are most likely currently needed because of this issue.

'Soft' sex, not much commanding lead outside the bedroom and inside the bedroom, beta behavior, supplicating - we all know the deal - this is creating a situation in which the majority of LTR's are sustained on very little raw/primal/instinctual hardcore physical/sexual attraction on the woman side.

I got the idea from this post from the explanation this phenomenon from a thread on science sub about animal sexual pleasure which led to a talk about woman's ability to orgasm for evolutionary purposes - the comment of which imo is missing the most important link - the man having the sex.

I don't think they would necessarily apply to prehistoric humans, there are just too many factors that could have (and very likely have) influenced the currently observed difficulty for a lot of modern Western women to achieve orgasm: lifestyle, hormonal differences (modern women today live completely different reproductive lives than women have evolved to live - reach menarche several years earlier, have very few children and have them much later in life, also breastfeed for a much shorter period of time, not to mention are affected by hormonal contraception and various other hormonal treatments), sexual education, or lack thereof, and socialisation.

What are your thoughts?