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[–]SegataSanshiro -21ポイント-20ポイント  (21子コメント)

Yeah, and it's just a coincidence that the only go-to examples of bad writing are in regards to the trans character, feminism, or poking fun at GamerGate.

Its not about the politics, bad writing just always happens to come in the form of progressive politics.

[–]outshyn 17ポイント18ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah, and it's just a coincidence that the only go-to examples of bad writing are in regards to the trans character, feminism, or poking fun at GamerGate.

Here's the thing: Beamdog has now said that they will expand and flesh out the one-dimensional trans character, and pretty quickly the critics are peeling off to go do other things. If "we hate the trans character because it's trans" were true, then the controversy would be inflamed by the notion that even more text is going to be devoted to the character.

So why are so many (such as myself) immediately placated? Because I actually did not like the writing, so now that they will rewrite it I'm happy, even though the character will still be trans.

[–]SegataSanshiro -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

So why are so many (such as myself) immediately placated?

I want to know that, too. Because if Mizhena is not the problem, but just one example of poor writing across the entire expansion, then why would anyone upset be placated simply by a promise to change the character and remove the ethics joke?

[–]outshyn 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

if Mizhena is not the problem

That's the problem with your question right there. The assumption is that "Mizhena is not the problem." I can see why, as others have asserted right in this topic that it is "one example of poor writing" and so it makes sense that you'd expect people would only be placated if ALL the bad writing was being overhauled.

And that may be the case for others. For me personally, I'm placated, but I've been really clear: my problem is not with Mizhena, not with a trans character, and not even with shit writing across the board. My problem was a poorly written trans character, and an "ethics joke" that turns Minsc into a passive aggressive bully. They've removed the joke, and vowed to make the poorly written trans character into a well-written trans character, so both of my issues are addressed and thus I stop caring about the rest of things. Now, it helps that in the forums they did in fact mention they are rewriting tons of other stuff too, so technically I have other concerns and they're addressing them. However, those concerns don't merit attention because Beamdog never contested those changes and never called upon Jezebel or other feminist publications to push back the hordes of critics who wanted some other typos and stuff fixed. They accepted the other complaints just fine.

So the only issue that was contested has been resolved. Nothing more to do, nothing more to see.

[–]SegataSanshiro -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

So the problem people are freaking out about is so petty as "one minor shopkeeper has poorly-written dialog"? That's what the review-bombing and fuss is about?

[–]outshyn 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

No. That's not what the fuss was about.

The fuss was that when people asked for fixes to Minsc's joke and "one minor shopkeeper" the response from the company was "WE WILL NOT CATER TO BIGOTS. SOUND THE ALARM." And then people who were complaining but who were not bigots, took offense. For good reason. Things escalated on both sides. The end result is that the simple fixes requested are now the simple fixes being delivered. I have no interest in vilifying those who complained, and I have no interest in holding a grudge against the company.

[–]SegataSanshiro -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a lot of the feedback received in regards to Mizhena WAS transphobic, bigoted, and personally attacking the writer in question. You're being delusional if you think otherwise, and I doubt anyone would want to placate those kinds of demands.

If your feedback never fell info that category, there is no reason to be offended.

[–]outshyn 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

OK, well, I think you're trying to find reasons to make people be wrong. I'd rather just say that the problem is solved.

[–]SegataSanshiro -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you and I disagree on a lot of things, and I'm sorry to have given off the impression that I'm discussing in bad faith.

I hope you're right about this issue dying down, though. Overanalyzing two or three lines in a cRPG dialog tree is normally something I do for fun, but this particular discussion(as a whole, not with you specifically) hasn't been enjoyable for me.

[–]tlneondo 27ポイント28ポイント  (7子コメント)

Because the trans character IS the most egregious example of bad writing. Don't use the minority as a trophy.

I consider myself a progressive, at least up to the mid-2000's definition, before you all decided to jump to one end of the horseshoe.

[–]SegataSanshiro -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If your best example of poor writing is a single optional shopkeep's flavor text, then I can't think of a single RPG with good writing. Miscellaneous NPCs have terrible dialog as a standard feature.

I'd expect claims of bad writings to be based on story structure or something more widespread, or to extend beyond 2-3 examples over the course of a 30 hour game.

[–]flybypost -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because the trans character IS the most egregious example of bad writing.

Have you seen game writing recently? The story of Diablo 3 is such a bland paint by number trope fest yet nobody caused such a shitstorm about that. There is so much bad or average writing that people need to wade through to get to the next bit of gameplay. Without a game around it people would just abandon it. Yet for GG the one really important bit of bad writing is about one character in a big RPG.

It purely was something GG didn't like but of course when GG complaints it's always valid but if somebody else complains the slipper slope (self-)censorship arguments are barked all over the place.

GG is a hypocritical outrage machine while at the same time complaining about the SJW outrage machine. It's just the other side of the very extreme and very loud minority and some rational movement for ethics in game journalism.

[–]ostermei 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

The story of Diablo 3 is such a bland paint by number trope fest yet nobody caused such a shitstorm about that.

Pretty sure I remember plenty of people bitching about how bad Diablo 3's story was when it released. Naturally, though, those complaints weren't really at the forefront of the backlash against the game given the importance of story in ARPGs (or, rather, its lack of importance in the genre).

[–]flybypost -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are so many weak or blandly average stories in most (story heavy) games but somehow the weak dialogue of this one character was the tipping point for the GG outrage?

Something like Gerstmann's firing could not get that mob started but a kerfuffle about a small indie game and GG is born.