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Question about Pochettino (self.reddevils)

TudoorsYoung が 投稿

So, this question comes from me browsing this sub a bit.

Most people that don't like Mourinho generally go with the Pochettino option. I'll keep my managerial preferences private, this isn't why I'm here.

The main question I have is why would Pochettino not want to leave Spurs to come to United?

The reason I find this question really pertinent is because what is the big deal? Is Pochettino really building something that special? If Mourinho can leave after winning the Champions League with Porto, Guardiola with Barcelona and so on, why is Pochettino any different?

In the case of Spurs, reaching top 4, and perhaps winning the title is their version of that, seeing as it is truly unrealistic to be competing for the Champion's League. United can offer him more money, and are a more ambitious club than Spurs. Sounds like a young ambitious manager would want that kind of publicity. If he does want to manage Real Madrid, wouldn't wining the league with United be that kind of pedigree that he needs? Building the giants another title winning team, something Real Madrid desperately desire?

I hate to play the we are United card, but if Liverpool can attract Klopp, then what is to say we can't attract Pochettino? Other than the fact that we can offer him a far superior contract, we do also offer that pedigree that Spurs do not. He's never pledged his recent future to Spurs either.

I think the people that argue that Pochettino wouldn't come to a club the size of United are lazy in formulating an argument because he is "building something". He can build a castle at Spurs, he can build an empire at United. A young ambitious manager can surely be tempted.

Let's hear some responses!

Edit: Someone reminded me about the finances argument. Spurs are building a new stadium and they are not able to spend as much money as they once could on players and management. These new players will surely be asking for more money after this season. Pochettino would have a larger check book at United, especially in the short term.

If Pochettino manages to win the league, then I don't think this argument carries any weight.

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[–]knoxisbackMemphis 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Mourinho left Porto to pursue bigger and better things in another league, comparable to Poch picking up the Real Madrid job if he got the offer. United are worse than Spurs atm and lacking any clear direction in terms of success.

Also I don't agree Poch is a better option than Mourinho anyways. He's had one good season in a year where every top team has underperformed. How do you know he can handle the United job that requires even more of an overhaul than he implemented at spurs, and now with the added pressure of Conte, Guardiola, and Klopp all restructuring and performing with their own squads? People need to stop having this fantasy he's better than Mourinho. He's not

Edit: also saying Liverpool can get Klopp so we can get Poch is pretty dumb. Klopp left after a disastrous start with dortmund and signed on with Liverpool when he didn't have a job.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I see and understand your first point.

I never said Pochettino is a better option than Mourinho, I find it odd you're addressing that.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in the context for my Klopp example. Klopp certainly had options, perhaps bigger options, yet he chose to go to Liverpool and take over that mess there. Of course it's different because Pochettino is in a job, but it has to be mentioned, Liverpool who were in an even shitter position before us managed to get someone better than Pochettino.

[–]shinkag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

perhaps bigger options

Which options did he have that were bigger than Liverpool? There was nothing.

[–]secondcitysaintFußballgott 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Klopp needs a club that is going to bend to his every will. He has a style and a plan for how he thinks his team should perform, and he wants total and absolute control over that. Perhaps there were bigger clubs interested, but there's a good chance that Liverpool were the only club willing to give Klopp whatever he wanted.

[–]abhinavyashkarpereira 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Any manager and when I say any i include the likes of Mou, Pochettino or even Pep would think numerous time before coming to United. I still feel that it dream for most manager to be managing Man Utd but at this point it comes with a very big-risk reward factor with it.

The case with LVG was different, it was his last job so it wouldn't affect his future that much. But any manager coming to United has to do good and if he fails it is a big set back. Managing Utd is probably the most difficult job out there. Moyes took the risk and is paying the price. Mou has the confidence for the job(he is literally asking for the job). But in case of Pochettino if he comes to United and does a good job he will be rated as one the best managers in the world but if he doesn't succeed then he will have tough time taking the next step forward.

So with any manager: its not about if United want then, its more about if they are willing to take the risk. Why I want Mou is because he has shown the confidence to take the team as it is built it and win trophies. He sure can take an easier job else where and still win and earn a lot of money.

As far as other managers are concerned I don't think Pep will be up the challenge(I am speculating but I seriously doubt he would take the job). For Pochettino it is a big risk, for the job at Man Utd is the toughest there is.

[–]manudevil7Beckham 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is Mourinho's dream job. He reportedly cried when United chose Moyes over him to replace SAF. He has great respect for SAF. He never refers to him by name, simply "the boss." I think Mourinho can bring us closer to replicating the success of SAF than anyone out there.

I think the club made a massive error in choosing Moyes over Mourinho to replace SAF. Mourinho is a proven winner, a man-motivator, and a manager who can bring world-class talent to OT.

[–]mufcirclejerk 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

why would Pochettino not want to leave Spurs to come to United?

  1. Their squad is significantly better than ours,
  2. The disparity in finances is not as significant as it once was thanks to the new TV deal,
  3. London is, frankly, a preferable place to live for almost anyone except us Mancs,
  4. He's [probably] going to win the league this season if they win their remaining 6-7 games,
  5. There are huge tasks ahead at United: solving the Rooney problem; buying an entirely new central midfield (how are we STILL talking about that?!); getting another world class striker; potentially losing DDG. He'd be taking over someone else's bungled transition,
  6. Frankly United are starting to get a fairly poor reputation. If we lose LVG and replace him with Mourinho, everyone will understand. If we sack him and replace him with Poch then it might be a slightly harder sell, optically. He's not a proven winner. It's not a sure-fire upgrade.

The feeling I have about press perception of our managerial situation is that Mourinho is good enough, and has been successful enough recently, that if he can't turn United around then nobody can. The board will know that it's a confluence of factors beyond the manager's control: more TV money bridging the gap between small and big clubs in the league; the rise of superpowers in Europe; the hangover from Fergie; the academy not being ready...

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Something I forgot to mention in my post is that specifically in the short term, Spurs are building a new stadium and are specifically not able to buy as many players as they want. So yes, finances are actually quite different, especially in the short term.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. Why wouldn't an ambitious manager want to make more money and be able to sign more players for a club that should have more ambition? If Pochettino wants to go to Madrid this United job would absolutely put his name on the map. However, if he does manage to win the league, I'd see it significantly harder, pretty much impossible.

[–]mufcirclejerk 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

So yes, finances are actually quite different, especially in the short term.

This is not the same as Arsenal. It's a £400m development, but their matchday revenue will rise from £42m to £105m p.a.; the NFL deal (over 10 years) will offset a significant portion of the cost (1.2m people will attend the stadium for NFL matches at an average ticket price of £45); and they'll sell the naming rights too. They've already offset about £65m of cost with a share issue and community funding. They're building nearly 600 homes which will be sold too (average price of a London home is roughly £0.5m… even if they're the cheapest homes in London at £200k they'll make £100m just from that exercise). This isn't the same as the Emirates at all.

Why wouldn't an ambitious manager want to make more money

Sorry, why would he make more money at United?

and be able to sign more players

Where is the evidence over the last three years that United have been able to sign "more players" than Spurs?

for a club that should have more ambition

I'd say Spurs are pretty ambitious. They're building the biggest stadium in London and have a fantastic chance at winning the league. Their side contains: England's best striker, England's most exciting young attacking prospect, one of the world's best goalkeepers, etc.

If Pochettino wants to go to Madrid

?

this United job would absolutely put his name on the map

Yeah he's going to be a real unknown if he stays and takes on the significantly easier task of turning Spurs from challengers into winners.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sorry, where are you getting these facts about the development? It's very interesting, and I knew about most of this, however I was under the impression they were building cheaper housing. I'm most curious about the actual income from the NFL games.

Because United can offer him a new contract? That's why he'd make more money, he still hasn't signed an extension, it's quite simple really.

United have outspent Spurs over the past 2 years by a considerable amount. That's essentially the same time Spurs announced their new development, again, showing that Spurs are still tied down to financial restraints. It's common knowledge, that they do have to cut their spending, they can't get away with buying as many players as they like, you can't rebut that, the stadium is still coming in at a major price.

Again, I say "should have more ambition", signing Mourinho or this guy sends the same message. United are supposed to be a team competing in the Champions league, historically Spurs don't, that's why I state that this club should have more ambition.

I find it weak that you're choosing to ignore the fact that I state if he manages to win the league he most likely wouldn't want to leave. I do not think Spurs will win the league, however, thats why I'm still asking this question.

I love it when someone picks and chooses what they argue from what I say.

[–]mufcirclejerk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry, where are you getting these facts about the development? It's very interesting, and I knew about most of this, however I was under the impression they were building cheaper housing. I'm most curious about the actual income from the NFL games.

I googled it. Took ten seconds. They won't get all of the income from those NFL games but they'll easily take in 70%.

Because United can offer him a new contract? That's why he'd make more money, he still hasn't signed an extension, it's quite simple really.

He'll make huge money at either club. And believe it or not money doesn't motivate everyone. At the level he's at, the difference between £5m a year and £8m a year isn't significant.

United have outspent Spurs over the past 3 years by a considerable amount. That's essentially the same time Spurs announced their new development, again, showing that Spurs are still tied down to financial restraints.

They don't need to spend to compete by the looks of things, but they've always been a top spending club. We also need major surgery which is why we've spent more. There's nothing to indicate that Spurs are tied down by their finances.

It's common knowledge, that they do have to cut their spending, they can't get away with buying as many players as they like, you can't rebut that, the stadium is still coming in at a major price.

I can't rebut that because there's absolutely no evidence to suggest it's true.

Again, I say "should have more ambition", signing Mourinho or this guy sends the same message. United are supposed to be a team competing in the Champions league, historically Spurs don't, that's why I state that this club should have more ambition.

Mourinho is worlds apart from Poch. Mourinho sends message that we demand results now. Poch suggests we believe in the long term.

I find it weak that you're choosing to ignore the fact that I state if he manages to win the league he most likely wouldn't want to leave. I do not think Spurs will win the league, however, thats why I'm still asking this question.

He won't choose to leave either way. Poch will stay at Spurs no matter what happens.

I love it when someone picks and chooses what they argue from what I say.

It's not a point of great consequence either way so I ignored it.

[–]PX44 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Finances don't mean shit if you don't need them. He doesn't need them - yet. He's pretty close to winning the league, or at least a top 3 finish.

[–]ScotsmaniaSmaldini 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Let's list the pros and cons for him joining us shall we?

Pros:

Higher transfer budget, but probably not that much higher

Brand name

Cons:

Likely no Champions League next year

Current squad isn't good enough to challenge for the title

Next 2-3 years will probably be taken up rebuilding just to get the squad at the level Spurs are already at

Woodward

Relatively high chance of being sacked

You need to get it into your head that this isn't the Manchester United of 2008, you are over-estimating the draw we currently have. It's one thing getting an out of work manager like Klopp or Mourinho but it's another thing entirely to try and entice one away from a club that are already doing amazingly well unless they already have plans to leave.

Winning the league with United is also not going to make him more likely to get the Real Madrid job than winning it with Spurs, who by your own admission have slightly less resources so theoretically should be a greater achievement.

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is Spurs' squad really that much better than ours? Come now, on paper they're very similar. It's different to win the league with Spurs than it is at United, which again he has absolutely not done, he's taken advantage of every other big team shitting the bed. He would still lose the league to Leicester if anything.

While I may overestimate the pulling power of United, people tend to underestimate it as well. This is still one of the biggest clubs in the world. People still join Real Madrid yet they have to work for Perez. I don't know about your cons, other than you know, the whole Champions League one, which again, isn't set in stone. If United is in such a shit show as you state, then it would be a bigger achievement to win it with United.

[–]ProMarlos 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He wants to go to Real Madrid and staying at Tottenham is the best way for him to get there.

[–]scotty1987 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Klopp was unemployed and had a stinker of a season previousl by his stansards. He won't be at Liverpool forever. It was all about credibility and reputation.

Poch is at a club that is pretty much guaranteed a top 3 finish with a young squad that have the potential to win the league in a season or two.

Big difference. End of discussion.

[–]Caesar3890 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because he just got there, has practically qualified for the CL and could win the league.

Its easy he isn't leaving

[–]TudoorsYoung[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm hoping for more than this lazy answer. Truly, I am. You don't address any of the points I've made =(

[–]IDespot90Martial -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

If we offer him job he would think about it , one good season is nothing since he know next year no way for them to enter top 4 imo. and hardly he can do any good job in CL with this team(they are after all selling club). so i think he would be tempted to leave.