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Clarifying our spending. (self.reddevils)

doesnt_like_pantsHerrera が 投稿

This is not an argument in support of LvG, it's a spiel against ignorance.

When people talk about how much LvG has spent they ramble on about how he's spent 250m. Now whether you like it or not, you can't parade this argument around and shout foul that our squad should be in better shape.

The fact of the matter is, when it comes to improving a squad, net spend IS important. If I want to buy a business it's value is based on it's assets and it's liabilities. It's assets are composed of what it currently has, not what it once had in the past but no longer has ownership of.

If Louis bought Di Maria for 60m and sold him for 55m then we no longer have a player of his calibre and value in the squad. We lost 5m on him and he should no longer be involved in the argument when it comes to the current state of the squad. So why the hell do people include Di Maria in LvG's spending???

What's more, we've been outspent by City in every fucking summer window over the last 6 years. The fact is, to get back to the top, we either need a manager that can produce more than the sum of the squads parts or we need to invest another 200m pounds net into the squad to perform at the level of the top 3/4/5 clubs again. It's as simple as that lads.

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[–]huatry 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly right. You've also got to think about the weekly wage bill for the squad, which has been drastically cut as older established players have been moved out under Van Gaal.

[–]doesnt_like_pantsHerrera[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think LvG needs to go but I don't think he's done as bad of a job as some people think.

The squad overhaul has been fucking monstrous. Almost everyone from Fergie's era is gone now and that was only 3 years ago (2 considering Moyes didn't really clear any of them out). You look at City and the majority of their starting XI (Aguero, Silva, Toure, Kompany when fit, Zaba, Hart) have been there for 4+ years AND they've been outspending us over that whole time.

He's left the squad a bit thin and managed to incorporate youth. Our injuries have been some of the worst in the Prem and we're only 1 point off City.

I think if you were to ask most United fans who the better manager between LvG and Pellegrini was then most would say Pellegrini. Some have even suggested he take charge of us. Fuck that, City have underperformed way worse than we have.

LvG's transfers haven't even been that bad, I think they've been quite good in all honesty.

My biggest issue is the football is just so dire.

[–]dsbm223Blind 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree with you. I have been LVG supporter but eventually gave up after those November - December run of games. Although I still like LVG, part of that roots from how he got mediocre (specially defense) Netherlands team playing as a unit and got to 3rd at WC but do admit, its time for mutual goodbye for better of both the club and for himself (to enjoy retirement). If LVG had not been so old school/stubborn and so rigid, he (and we) could have avoided this mess we have now.

Speaking of that, I love most of his signings and the youth he has given chances to.

I feel he should have tried second half of last season's 4-1-2-3 again this season when we played fairly exciting football (man, that 4-2 win over city was something) and got great run of results.

[–]_redmeScholes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a lazy point to complain about money spent.

The more accurate point is LvG (and I'm not a hater) is that he didn't buy all the players he needed in the first place.

We needed a class CB (and this is before Smalling 'stepped up' and Blind 'proved' himself). To be fair, we still do. I don't think Jones cuts it and for all the good Blind has done, he is still a cover player. A CB pairing of Smalling plus whoever, with Rojo/Jones/Blind able to fill in anywhere needed (and our injury record requires them all).

We needed a striker to rival Rooney, someone who will give you 20+ goals no questions asked. Martial landed but isn't stepping up to the goal requirement yet, but is a fantastic purchase nonetheless. He's found another gem with Rashford but are United going to hedge their bets on him over one of Europes established strikers?

Was it too much to ask to buy EVERYONE we wanted in those 2 windows? We'd probably be 3rd at least if we had just one or two extra buys last season, but the haters would say "£300m+ spent and only 3rd? Leceister ahead of United?

[–]manudevil7Beckham 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

First of all, Angel Di Maria was sold for £44.3 million, which is a loss of £15.4 million, not £5 million.

Secondly, since you argue net spend is important, that is a bigger argument for Jose Mourinho. Since June of 2013, Manchester United have a net spend of £168 million, while Mourinho's Chelsea have a net spend of £54 million. Therefore, our net spend is more than three times Chelsea's.

Mourinho was able to add much needed depth, and he also moved deadwood from the squad, while mananging a net spend of only £54 million.

Source: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9837133/gary-neville-chelsea-are-a-shining-example-to-other-clubs

[–]doesnt_like_pantsHerrera[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. Mou always seems to know exactly who he can get, who he wants and how they will fit. As I said, I'm not defending LvG, I just don't think people understand how big the overhaul was or that we really do need to pump money into class players to compete.

As noted, you either need a manager who can achieve more than the sum of a squads parts (Simeone, Rainier this season etc.) or pump more money into class players.

Also, the Chelsea squad Mou inherited was in a better state than the squad LvG inherited. Chelsea also made money selling youth talents like Lukaku etc for pretty decen money to make their net spend look better.

[–]xtfftcValencia 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The other day we had some discussions on the sub with people suggesting Mourinho didn't get enough financial support at Chelsea.

He spent 100m to improve a squad that finished four points on top, and then the next summer he spent 70m on his PL-dominating team. Yet people tend to think he didn't get enough money at Chelsea and this is one of the reasons he failed so miserably at building long-term.

Yet van Gaal spending 250m on a team that finished 7th and 4th is seen as a gigantic sum.

170m for a team that finished 2nd and 1st = not enough.

250m for a team that finished 7th and 4th = top club spending.

People are willing to believe anything as long as it fits their narrative...

[–]rhyzzzRooney[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yet van Gaal spending 250m on a team that finished 7th and 4th is seen as a gigantic sum. People are willing to believe anything as long as it fits their narrative...

Speaking of that, Moyes finished 7th, LVG finished 4th, his second season hasn't been finished yet.

[–]Tinkyxwinky 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So why the hell do people include Di Maria in LvG's spending???

I know Di Maria had his own flaws. But when you buy a player like him then put him in a team playing slow possesion, is it really surprising to see him fail?

He's included because it was horrible management. Him being sold doesn't meab the transfer never happened. You can't just pick and choose who to include in our net spend. LVG would've been the one to authorise his selling at the end of the day. He could've done what Everton did to Chelsea with stones and tell PSG to fuck right off. He chose not to, fair enough. But that's why it's included in our transfer record.

Now whether you like it or not, you can't parade this argument around and shout foul that our squad should be in better shape

Why not? You guys are the one that say LVG replaced deadwood at the club and brought in better players as a replacement. Some more expensive than others. So despite the quality of our squad improving, the quality of our football hasn't. The reason why people point out his money spend is because it dispels rubbish about LVG not being given enough funding to do the bare minimum (top 4 and decent football. Passing the CL group stages would've been nice too).

He's had 4 windows to buy whoever he wanted. No one is expecting him to walk the league. But doing better than last year shouldn't be too much to ask for. That's why the £250mil is quoted so much.

[–]ChristianKrell 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Revolutionary thinking. Absolute eye-opener. Why has noone ever expressed this before...

[–]doesnt_like_pantsHerrera[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A lot of people are unaware of the reality and just eat up a media narrative. If people didn't like it this post would've been downvoted. You don't have to be a condescending asswipe.

[–]RedDevilAndy -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dont care how much money we spend on TOP players, yeah here lies the fault we've not signed top quality players in the last 3 years. I dont care if we spend 70mil on James, 80mil on Lewandowski (just examples obviously) just get the fucking TOP quality players in.