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[Megathread] Blizzard is suing Nostalrius (self.wow)

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[–]odaal 1082ポイント1083ポイント x5 (398子コメント)

I know people that play wow will say "They deserve it, it was a private server, you all deserve the server get taken down", well god damn, all we were doing was playing a game we loved, because there was no other way of doing it. blizzard said "we dont want to do it", but HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people disagreed.

Playing on Nostalrius was the most fun I've had playing WoW in <YEARS>. We had upto 12k people online on the server at a time, with no phasing the game really felt like the WORLD of warcraft.

this is a travesty to so many people, to tens and tens of thousands of people that built friendships, invested time and played the game they loved.

There is a serious demand for a server like this - if blizzard does not seize this opportunity to create something out of this fiasco ...they are fools. Thousands if not tens of thousands of players would instantly hop onto servers that are Vanilla. There's a massive demand, but blizzard "knows" better, ie, they are too lazy to code the old content again. Something a handful of people did in their free time. PITIFUL.

You destroyed a MASSIVE gaming community that were playing/developing/moderating YOUR game,which was a masterpiece. It was a testament from the players to YOUR work. You should've been proud of it, no other game will ever have a legacy as early wow does.

You win, Blizzard, we lose. Typical.

You've lost a customer that has been with you for over a decade.

[–]HKoolaid 83ポイント84ポイント  (20子コメント)

It's crushing to our guild. We have been preparing for months to be able to finally conquer AQ when it was released. We had our flasks and consumables and food and we were razor sharp focused. It's gone and the chance for us to do the things we didn't have a chance to do when it was out on retail is gone.

[–]odaal 41ポイント42ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel sad for some of the hardcore raiders, the ones that have been preparing for ages for AQ. Got mats for the gong, got gear, got all the consumables. RIP.

Shoutout to Phoenix.

[–]fluxflashor 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is probably one of the saddest things about this whole clusterfuck. AQ was so close yet so far. I would have loved to participate in such an event.

And then the scourge invasion.. and Naxx stuff.

='(

[–]nachobel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is sad to me. This reminds me of the MONTHS we spent farming to get into AQ40, and finally being able to go in there and smash our faces against that place was just...an amazing feeling. I'm sorry for your loss friend.

[–]c0meary [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

crafting all that poison resist gear too. oh god the days.. i want them

コメントをもっと表示する (16 返事)

    [–]pressmore 92ポイント93ポイント  (14子コメント)

    Even Jagex came to their senses when they finally released RS2007.

    And they update it with new content without changing the core mechanics, graphics or areas.

    It's funny how Runescape gets made fun of, but the team of people working there are smarter than the people at Blizzard.

    Blizz keep servers open for WC3:RoC when almost nobody even plays it, for SC Vanilla, for Diable 2. But opening 10 servers for Vanilla, BC, Wotlk, etc... is not possible? Even for SC2 they still have ladder open for WoL and HotS. There is so much content in WoW that people never get to because it is outdated or they never managed to get there back when it was still the main content.

    It's just their new business model. Force people to buy the new content or quit. Most people would rather buy.

    [–]359RP 37ポイント38ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Even Jagex came to their senses when they finally released RS2007.

    And they update it with new content without changing the core mechanics, graphics or areas.

    This cannot be overlooked.

    [–]zani1903 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They also have ingame poll booths available to members where you can vote on said new additions. It's used often and does often deny quite a bit of these content proposals by Jagex.

    [–]Drilling4mana [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Even Jagex came to their senses when they finally released RS2007.

    And they update it with new content without changing the core mechanics, graphics or areas.

    And it destroyed the community.

    [–]beefybear 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I actually play very actively on a RuneScape Classic private server, Shout out (Edit removed because don't want to break sub rules even if it's a different game) and it's the most fun I have in some of my free time. More real players than the official RSC, zero bitters (strictly enforced), super fun events (for holiday releases and some custom non game breaking items like different colored party hats, slight improvements to the game (batched skilling based on levels, few extra banks and spawn locations) and I've been curious about finding an either Vanilla or BC private server (Active since beta but...man come on Blizzard) to have the same experience. I'm only sad to have learned of this through it's shutting down.

    [–]Daffan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    RS2007 has it's own development team with Q/A every week on twitch and Reddit interaction. Pretty cool.

    [–]SuttBallion 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    They could take a few lessons from jagex. Something like a "ninja team" that jagex has where every week or so they fix small bugs or add QOL stuff and overall it smooths the whole game out. Blizzard on the other hand acknowledges the bugs and continues to ignore them for months and months. I know jagex isnt perfect in getting all the bugs, but theres atleast a visible attempts at it.

    [–]pressmore 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Their games are poorly designed. Software wise at least. Memory leakage and use goes up as more updates come out even if the functionality of the games don't change.

    I used to be able to play SC2WoL on high with 3gb of ram on an hd4850. 2 years later it wouldn't even low a map on low and if it did it ran slower than arma3 does on an my current amd processor. So I got a new computer.

    [–]Mr_Thunders 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    but the team of people working there are smarter than the people at Blizzard.

    That is jumping the gun a bit over one change, one that myself and many others do not think would work with WoW.

    [–]Atlanticall [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Blizz keep servers open for WC3:RoC when almost nobody even plays it, for SC Vanilla, for Diable 2. But opening 10 servers for Vanilla, BC, Wotlk, etc... is not possible?

    I can't even believe you said this with a "straight face", and I can't believe that over 60 people upvoted this idiotic opinion.

    You are honestly comparing keeping an MMO like WoW running with Diablo 2? What in fucking hell? What, you think WoW runs on a couple of laptops in a closet some place?

    [–]pressmore [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/wow_server.jpg

    Yes. Just with a advanced laptop.

    http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/18/blizzard-reveals-some-technical-data-about-world-of-warcraft/

    They just have high quality assurance. And if some guys in France can do it with their own money and offer it for free. Why can't blizz just make a couple extra?

    [–]Bruisedmilk [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Blizzards heads are too far up their own asses to do anything like Jagex did. They thought WoD was a good expansion and that the price was reasonable.

    They are out of their minds, and considering they aren't even reporting sub numbers anymore they just continue to solidify the notion that they are absolute cowards. They do nothing but hide and make up excuses, don't even let people ask questions at Blizzcon without checking them first anymore. They don't like surprises and they damn sure don't like their own community.

    They think they are so great.

    [–]pressmore [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I think the games are made for their CEOs. When they were in their 20s they had lots of time and could play WoW for 5-6 hours a day and make progress. Today they might have 5-6 hours a week and you can't get shit done in vanilla unless you dedicate a couple hours to it. Logging in for 10 minutes won't get anything done.

    They are trying to sell their game to people who don't play games. We play games for adventure, challenge and fun. They are selling it to people who have some free time(1-2 hours) and don't want to watch TV or play minesweeper but would rather do something else fun and new. But at the same time keep in elements like raids and difficulty which appeals to people who don't even like the game anymore.

    Look at their more recent games. Hearthstone, their DotA knockoff, and now Overwatch. It's games for casuals with no real challenge.

    [–]Bruisedmilk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Exactly, these games clearly aren't for gamers or Blizzard fans. There's absolutely nothing about their new games like SC2 that makes me go "oh hey it's Starcraft!" Instead I go "this is supposed to be Starcraft?" Where's the strategy? Where the good story and interesting characters? Everything is just death balling and super powered bullshit now. Same with Diablo and Warcraft, there's not a shred of decent writing or clever gameplay, it's all safe and forgettable. Remember Saurfang's speech in ICC? Nothing like that has happened in expansion CATA and onwards, it's all predictable and bland dialogue. An absolute disservice to the once mighty Blizzard.

    I wish they would just admit that they don't care anymore, they just keep constantly lying and deceiving people who still trust them. It's incredibly underhanded and downright unethical the way they string along their fans and completely spit in their faces like with WoD, where they outright lied about things like "not having enough resources" after bragging about how the WoW team is "bigger than ever" and we got an expansion with the least amount of content and $10 more the price. Rob Pardo jumping ship should have been a sign of the times, but people continue to ignore it.

    This isn't Blizzard.

    [–]hey-freckles 143ポイント144ポイント  (14子コメント)

    Couldn't have said it better.

    [–]Agastopia 21ポイント22ポイント  (12子コメント)

    There's nothing else to say. It sucks when a company does the kind of show of strength they did here.

    [–]Tanuki_Attack 20ポイント21ポイント  (10子コメント)

    A show of strength? I'm sure it was little more than an arm wave. Companies do CnDs all the time. Nos was intellectual property theft. The trouble with breaking the law is that you have little recourse.

    [–]Mr_Thunders 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

    The entitlement is crazy. I went over to the forums for this server and people are screaming "NEVER SUPPORT BLIZZARD BIG BUSINESS ALWAYS SHITS ON THE LITTLE MAN". Do people not just get that they are literally stealing Blizzards property or are people that selfish they think they deserve to play it?

    [–]Tanuki_Attack 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm awestruck that people are claiming justification because they have a subscription to the retail version. I pay my internet bill but I don't like the infrastructure in my neighborhood. I'm not going to just make my own modifications to my ISPs local infrastructure just because I know how.

    [–]Mr_Thunders 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I torrent movies but if all of a sudden my torrent site was taken down I wouldn't cry and moan because I was breaking the law and got what was coming to me.

    コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

      [–]Diggasson 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They're stopping pirating of their game, when did that become something bad?

      [–]359RP 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Jumping on the coat tails of this comment to post the official Nost team's open letter to Blizzard:

      http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1751857331?page=117

      [–]Xenonhour 35ポイント36ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I never really played on Nostalrius but its always shitty when a community dies for no reason

      pourin out a 40 for all the nost players tonight

      [–]Undeadicated 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I'll pour out a 32 because I live in shitty Florida where 40's and 30 racks are outlawed

      [–]Acron9 56ポイント57ポイント  (37子コメント)

      Like most big companies, they hate to admit being wrong. I mean, who wants to play all the old and busted content, when you can be raiding in Warlords Of Draenor?! The nerve of some people...

      [–]Ariakkas10 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Everquest puts out vanilla servers every couple of years.

      [–]odaal 6ポイント7ポイント  (34子コメント)

      I understand perfectly well as to why they do that though.

      No company wants to "release" old content, they want to push new shit out, so that you can buy it all. Ad nauseam. The logic is flawed, and I genuinely hope that Legion flops.

      [–]Rheynor 27ポイント28ポイント  (28子コメント)

      Just for the sake of being a contrarian, Nintendo publishes the same game with a new coat of paint every couple of years and we eat that shit up ><

      [–]tschoerk 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      With the difference that I can always go back and play the old Nintendo games.

      [–]Rheynor 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I was just being a contrarian, I would personally pay for a 20$/month sub if it included normal and legacy servers. I never got to experience vanilla wow (I was 13 when I started playing in TBC) and would like to go back and enjoy it. And who knows, maybe the community will be so great and active that it will be something I can play on a regular basis. On top of that, if the community is good I might even be able to form friendships that last for many years (Just like I did when I first started playing WoW).

      [–]Eiriksen 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

      Actually, Nintendo ruins formulas the fans love and we still eat that shit up.

      [–]Rheynor 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      What may be ruined in your eyes may be a wonderful return to form for others. For the most part it's up to each individual consumer to determine if a game they've bought and played before is worth buying again albeit with a shiny new coat of paint.

      [–]Eiriksen 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      In most cases I'm sure you're right, but in the case of Paper Mario they've simply ruined a series beloved by many.

      The top posts on /r/papermario should speak for itself. https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/top/

      [–]Rheynor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Fair enough, there is always an exception, and I don't know enough regarding paper mario (i only played the first two games) to say if that is true or not.

      And just to be clear, I do not disagree, if the backlash is significant enough then maybe Nintendo should attempt to return to the original idea and go back to the drawing board, so to speak, when coming up with new features.

      [–]Korrk 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

      What have they ruined except from Paper Mario? There have been lots of quality releases on the Wii U.

      [–]Eiriksen 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Metroid, mostly salty about Paper Mario though.

      [–]Veldox 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They haven't ruined metroid if you're talking about Federation Force but that's like being mad Mario Tennis exists. It's not a main game entry so it doesn't make any sense.

      [–]botnetrip 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      They haven't actually made a Metroid game tho.

      [–]AngryNeox 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Mario Party. They did the same mistake TWICE.

      コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

        [–]timbolol 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Gotta catch em all..

        [–]Alagorn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        You can actually buy red and blue for 3DS on their online store, which might future proof against any morality of pirating it due to not being able to legally buy it

        [–]jdino 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Mario or Pokemon? ;)

        [–]Alagorn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Nintendo's also rereleased Red and Blue on 3DS download, which invalidates downloading ROMs of it and emulating it. The experience is also even better because you can battle and trade online, whereas you couldn't trade or battle anyone on emulated versions.

        [–]Rheynor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        ROMs of it and emulating it. The experience is also even better because you can battle and trade online, whereas you couldn't trade or battle anyone on emulated versions.

        if you look at another one of my comments in this thread I say that I enjoy having this readily available (I own pokemon red on virtual console for 3DS). Thus reinforcing the idea that remaking/publishing older content is not always a bad thing. However I do think that it would be bad if a company stopped producing new content and only re-released old content (ala HD remake every game they've ever released). Which is why it is good that Nintendo has a plethora of new and unique IP that they publish on a regular basis, and for the most part the derivatives of their older works are unique enough to not be remakes or rehashes.

        [–]Mad_at_reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Yea, but they don't introduce new features that break the game like garrisons, cross realm raid and dungeon finder, etc. What we all loved about WoW were the social aspects of it.

        You and your guild all grinded out the worst goddamn boss fights ever, with broken mechanics, imbalances, shit gear and oddball tactics. But when you finally downed it you felt like you achieved something, and the adversity/success brought you all closer. Your tier sets would draw crowds in major cities because it wasn't easily attainable, it was a point of pride.

        The game as it is now is basically farmville Blizzard style. You log in, do your dailies or weekly raids and then log out. Nintendo has consistently remained true to the core fanbase of it's franchises. Adding new features without excluding the hardcores. That's the difference.

        [–]Rheynor 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Like I said, I was being a contrarian, and I don't disagree with what you said. I loathed every aspect outside of raiding in WoD. I have also hated cross realm since its inception, I would rather blizzard just merge more servers into giant mega servers.

        Anyways, Nintendo has had their fair share of messes that people have pitched a fit over. like I said in another comment, it is up to the consumer to determine whether or not a new coat of paint warrent's a new purchase. I personally bought pokemon red for the virtual console because it was a nice reminder of my childhood and I enjoy it immensely.

        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

          [–]ieya404 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Though Blizzard only recently released new patches for both Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3, both of which make vanilla WoW look young and modern :)

          [–]smartazjb0y 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The logic is flawed, and I genuinely hope that Legion flops.

          Yeah, fuck everyone playing and enjoying retail WoW!

          [–]blackdragon2124 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Make it cost a subscription fee again and profit. It doesn't cost that much money to set up a server and its not like they need to spend time developing a game.... Like I understand they want people to play the new stuff but at times like this, where we have had hellfire citadel for like 9 months almost, there really isn't much left to do. I for one stopped paying my subscription because I just didn't want to play that wow anymore. What is an easy way to get my money again? Add a dedicated vanilla server and charge me to play it. I'd be all over that shit. I'd still continue to play the current content too when it comes out because I want to raid new stuff and progress my character while also progressing in content I never got to try because I was too young.

          [–]Atlanticall [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I genuinely hope that Legion flops.

          Even if it's a good expansion?

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]Spooooooooky 109ポイント110ポイント  (163子コメント)

            I know I'm gonna get downvoted here, but I'm actually just trying to understand this.

            Private Servers are stealing blizzards property, and potentially causing them damage. Playing WoW for free is the same as pirating movies or music, right? So why are people surprised/mad when blizzard defends their property?

            Is your stance "I'm just too poor to be able to afford a wow sub. I know I'm stealing, but I don't have any other option"? I'd sympathize with that position.

            [–]stereopump 82ポイント83ポイント  (74子コメント)

            The defense is that Blizzard has no legitimate competition with Nostalrius.

            I was a huge fan of the server and maintained a retail subscription at the same time. Retail WoW doesn't even begin to compare with Vanilla when it comes to meaningful interactions in the world, and Nostalrius was the only place to go where that interaction existed. Seriously, people on this sub constantly say that people 'misremember' vanilla WoW and that it would never stand up today, yet everyone who plays or has played on Nostalrius will enthusiastically disagree with that sentiment.

            [–]I_EAT_POOP_AMA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            The defense is that Blizzard has no legitimate competition with Nostalrius.

            but they kinda do though. Nost was pretty clear on it being a non-profit server, but there are plenty of private servers that are clearly for profit, with a lot of them offering cash shops to buy raid gear/mounts/in game items, and iirc there's one or two with their own subscription model.

            But despite Nost being non-profit, they were still making some kind of money from it. They accepted donations for the server. A lot of that went to maintenance and upkeep, but chances are there was at least some of that money going into the pockets of the admins, which pushes this into legal territory.

            コメントをもっと表示する (29 返事)

              [–]GrandPumba 174ポイント175ポイント  (44子コメント)

              They aren't stealing WoD.

              They are playing a game that Blizzard literally does not sell anymore. If they won't monetize the interest themselves then pirates will fill the demand.

              [–]chavs_arent_real[🍰] 87ポイント88ポイント  (6子コメント)

              I'm guessing that a VERY small percentage of people will actually go back to playing retail. For most of the vanilla private server community, retail is a dead game and they will never return.

              [–]Zadoose 32ポイント33ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I would only be interested in playing on an old server. I haven't played retail in years and have zero interest in playing any of the new content. If blizzard released a classic wow server like nostalrius I'd gladly subscribe.

              [–]cyz0r 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              i quit playing first month of WoD. i started playing WoW in cata. I did play a bit on a vanilla privet server and had a ton of fun. WoW seems so bad compared to what it is now.

              [–]Aedeus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I agree. Which is why I believe it was more to stifle the push for Legacy servers than it would be for the subscription boost. Happy cake day, btw :)

              [–]RedGrobo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This sentiment is at the heart of the private server community imo

              [–]iaruoksid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yup. The entire reason I started nost is cause I absolutely hate what Blizz did to to wow. Before this, I could understand that they made the changes they felt were right. Now? Fuck um.

              [–]Elementium [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I didn't play on the server but I'm only a casual player of retail WoW these days. A month or two every winter too see what's up.

              I'd probably keep a sub going on a Vanilla-like server. I want the challenge, the NEED to group up and the time sink that Vanilla and even TBC provided.. BUT I really can't go back to the old models and lose a bunch of features that I do think have made the game better.

              I want a custom server with like.. TBC as End-Game. But with Achievements, collection tabs, transmogs. All the non-Gameplay simplifying stuff, just the QoL stuff.

              They're kinda circling ideas anyway.. Let's go BACK to Draenor, let's see Illidan again!.

              What I miss? seeing people with like Black Temple Tier armor (T6?) and being like "holy shit, this guys a fucking raider."

              [–]Drhots 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Well look at Jagex Runescape2007 it is doing very well and there seems like there would be a much bigger outcome for wow players if blizzard ever decided to make vanilla

              [–]CraftZ49 5ポイント6ポイント  (32子コメント)

              It contains Blizzard's copywritten material though

              [–]lollermittens 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Sure it does.

              Within a legal framework, your argument wins. Moreover, within the EULA, you don't even have to raise the concept of copyright as it's clearly stated that private servers are in a breach of the EULA.

              The grievance is that tens of thousands of players are having more fun with a decade old iteration of WoW rather than the new content available. This is troublesome for Blizzard for a multitude of reasons. The most obvious one is also the one being used to shut down this private server: it's against the EULA.

              The implications of private servers existing in the wild (unregulated as well as data not being shared with Blizzard) where no monthly subscription is required and where tens of thousands of people play every day sets a bad precedent for Blizzard. Just like when they sued the creators of Maphack and certain bots in Diablo 2, Blizzard is putting its foot down to make an example of Nostalrius.

              It's just sad and frustrating for many people (including myself) who've grown up with Blizzard games and Blizzard as a company.

              [–]CraftZ49 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

              I agree that this really should send Blizzard a message to do it themselves. Problem is that they have millions of people paying $15 a month for the current game, that a 13k active user community that doesn't pay a dime to enjoy their product isn't much to them.

              EDIT: been corrected, active user base was 150k, Blizzard still has the legal right, but I really do hope they get a message out of this.

              [–]TurbulentJuice 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

              150k active users, 13k online at any given time. 850k accounts total... there's definitely a demand, people would undoubtedly pay. I'd activate my WoW subscription for the first time in a few years if they put up legacy servers, and I can't be the only one.

              [–]CraftZ49 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Oh okay, I'll make an edit then.

              [–]Shadirrasda 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Just fyi , it was an Average 13k people online SIMULTANIOUSLY the active user base was probably around 150 to 180 thousand ( most people dont play 24/7) ;-)

              [–]GrandPumba 6ポイント7ポイント  (26子コメント)

              So did pirate sites that distributed old games. The problem didn't really become alleviated until sites like Steam and GoG came along.

              Legality doesn't matter. The demand is there regardless and it will be fulfilled one way or another.

              [–]CraftZ49 -1ポイント0ポイント  (21子コメント)

              Regarding legality, if someone wants to make a fresh new free MMO that has that quality that vanilla WoW did, they can go right ahead. You can't just take a companies assets to do that though.

              I get that the demand is there for old WoW, but blizzard has the right to snipe it.

              [–]GrandPumba 5ポイント6ポイント  (19子コメント)

              Of course they have the right. They have the right to stop this and refuse to create legacy servers themselves.

              There is no law against stupidity.

              [–]ygguana 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Blizz can do anything. If they wanted to shut down all WoW retail servers tomorrow and go home, they could probably do that too! Just because they can, doesn't mean they should

              コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                [–]Diggasson 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                But it's still pirating no?

                [–]Melontastic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You have to understand that "Warlords of Draenor" isn't it's own separate game. It is an expansion to the game called World of Warcraft. Nostalrius is a private server of the game World of Warcraft in one of it's early incarnations. While it may be a very different experience playing the early version and the current live version of the game, it is still the same game. Not to mention all of the content was irrefutably made by Blizzard, and they had/have/will always have strict policy and rules in place stating that private servers of their game, which is copyrighted, is very illegal and they have every right to sue.

                [–]I_EAT_POOP_AMA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                except there are private servers running WoD (even up to 6.2.4), and once Legion comes we'll probably see more work being put into those private servers for people to play on.

                But you're right about the aftermath of all of this. Another server is just going to end up taking it's place. Even right now Nost players are in exodus to other available private servers, and we'll probably end up seeing similar happenings down the line with them as well.

                [–]Tic0 44ポイント45ポイント  (2子コメント)

                That's the problem. You can't even pay Blizzard for what you want. If you want to play vanilla wow, you have to play on a private server.

                That they sue a server like that gets much more frustrating, as they aren't even offering what you have been given on that server by themselves. If Blizzard would host vanilla wow servers, I totally would understand this, but the way it currently is I have no empathy for it.

                [–]Diggasson 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Let's the honest here how many of those people claiming that they would pay a sub to play would actually do it? It sounds the same to me as back when modding controversy was going on, how people said time and time again that they would rather donate than pay steam for a mod. In the end modders had donation buttons for years and earned little to nothing from it.

                But yeah give people the option and see if they put their money where their mouth is.

                [–]doctorcrass [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Well runescape offered an old school runescape version and it has since grown to be as big or bigger than the newest version of runescape. So it isn't like legacy servers in an MMO are without precedent. Also regardless the statement still stands that blizzard doesn't even offer the product they're suing people over.

                [–]TCsnowdream 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Now that I think about it... This is just an old problem in a different way.

                Ever hear 'keep circulating the tapes!' ?

                No? Well, ever have a TV show you loved? But you can't find it online? There are no DVDs of it? And it's not on air anymore? People would search high and low for recordings of the stupid things. Yea, sure, we can argue 'it's the studios property!!' But to quote Disney, this whole thing is "A tale as old as time."

                Yea, Vanilla wow is a bit like thay TV show that no one can find. People want to play it, but executive meddling and stubborn developers (who are often the meddling executives themselves) won't assist the player base.

                Thus, private servers exist. Just like when you'd find out the father of your cousins girlfriend had managed to VCR that TV show you're desperate to see again, people will find out that there is a Vanilla server and go play it.

                It's really sad because Blizzard isn't going to make this problem go away. People may stop playing on the private servers, but they won't forget what they did.

                Hell, I'd love to play a Vanilla server again. I only log on just to see what's being offered on the BMAH... I don't even know why I subscribe still...

                [–]snot_rocketeer 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

                A better analogy might be something like this. A band made it big with their first two albums. 10 years later they are still making new music and selling lots of records of their new music, but every time they release a new album they gather up all copies of their last one, burn them, and refuse to sell any new copies of it. Now they found an underground ring of people passing around bootleg copies of the stuff they don't sell anymore and are having it shut down.

                Yes it is still their IP, but they don't allow anyone legal access to it. If Blizzard were Metallica, vanilla and TBC would be like Ride the Lightning and ...And Justice For All, and WoD would be like Reload or whatever newer pop they've put out. Sure it might be good to a lot of people, but it is very different from what it used to be.

                [–]ygguana 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Ah, good ole Metallica!

                [–]Fim0458 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                If Blizz were Guns and Roses, vanilla would be Appetite for Destruction and retail would be Chinese Democracy

                [–]jarrodnb 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I play WoD, but I also play Vanilla because it's better. I, for one, aren't causing any damage, I'd happily pay for a Blizzard vanilla server but I can't.

                [–]clush 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I want to pay for a legacy server, which blizzard doesn't provide. I played on nostalrius because they provided what I want.

                [–]Antman42 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                where is blizzard offering this service? I wouldn't be looking to play this game I PAID for years ago if they offered it.

                [–]Doktaplayer 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                They are hosting a product Blizzard does not sell anymore. Just like every version pre WoD/Legion

                [–]chavs_arent_real[🍰] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                My stance is "retail sucks, I want to play vanilla". And I have no other option.

                [–]Sagragoth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I can sub for vanilla wow?! Where?!

                [–]Muesli_nom 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Private Servers are stealing blizzards property, and potentially causing them damage. Playing WoW for free is the same as pirating movies or music, right? So why are people surprised/mad when blizzard defends their property?

                They are not stealing the current game. They are "stealing" a game that is no longer available trough the license holder. It has been communicated to the rights holder numerous times by their customers that they are interested -in great numbers!- in that unavailable product, but the rights holder continues withholding the requested product.

                Thus, they are not stealing anything from the rights holder, because stealing implies "lost revenue". Since the rights holder does not monetize the product "stolen", no money is lost. In fact, those "stealers" provide a reason for some customers to pay the actual rights holder while not even using their services (but the alternate services of the private server). There are many players on Nost that keep their sub to retail open because they feel the need to remunerate Blizzard regardless. By shutting it down, Blizzard is cutting into their own revenue stream because they pissed those people off something fierce.

                In any case: As I wrote elsewhere: There's an opportunity here: Blizz could hire the Nost coders and staff, and have them operate a legal legacy server. Yes, the dudes around Nost provided Blizzard quality. This would be a win for everyone.

                But Blizzard is not interested in such a solution.

                edit: Grammar

                [–]Nelaphim 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                If Blizzard does not actively go after people infringing on their trademarks, they can LOSE the right to defend the property at all. So if they let all of the 'free' servers run around without going after them, eventually, they will not have the legal right to go after the servers that spring up with current content/pay to play requirements.

                [–]Muesli_nom 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I thought this was the case in trademark law. Does copyright function similarly?

                [–]Nelaphim 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Woops. You are correct. I will amend my post.

                [–]Muesli_nom [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Well, now I'm kinda shocked that I apparently know more about US trade laws than my own electoral system altogether :-D.

                [–]CaesarLovesBrutus 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Vanilla private servers are stealing nothing from Blizzard. Blizzard has stated before that they have no intention on setting up their own version of vanilla servers. You cannot steal what isn't there to be stolen. WoW is losing subscribers steadily on its own, now you could say the existence of private vanilla servers could be attributing to this, but then Blizzard should listen to their community and implement a vanilla aspect of their game. I can see where Blizzard has a point, that WoW and its assets are theirs and theirs alone. But if they have no intention of providing a service people are asking for, why shouldn't people from the community be able to set it up themselves?

                I won't pretend to know how private servers work or how they are kept up. But if a few guys can keep it running on their own, certainly Blizzard should be able to do the same. Runescape (terrible example I know but it's the first I could think of) did something similar when it established its own old servers, because the owners knew people were just playing on private servers, difference is they realized they could cash in on it.

                [–]Nelaphim 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If Blizzard does not actively go after people infringing on their trademarks, they can LOSE the right to defend the property at all. So if they let all of the 'free' servers run around without going after them, eventually, they will not have the legal right to go after the servers that spring up with current content/pay to play requirements.

                [–]talented_fool 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Here's the thing: they already bought the game! The players on private servers already shelled out money for the base game, for the client. You don't play $16/mo and get the game; you pay $40 per expansion, and then $16/mo for the server use. They still have the base game, which is at this point, the player's property, not Blizzard's.

                Now, are there reasonable quarrels Blizzard might have with private servers; specifically copyright concerns. The hosts of the private server shouldn't make any money off Blizzard's copyrighted material, and it sounds like they didn't. Shouldn't help people pirate the game. Shouldn't claim to be blizzard and confuse people, etc. But they haven't done any of that to my (admittedly limited) knowledge.

                This is your game, you paid for it, and it you want to use it in a way other than the intended purpose that causes no harm, that should be your right.

                [–]Veldox 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                No it's not like that, it's a game that you cannot play anymore it doesn't exist except in the private server format as Blizzard refuses to do it (even though it'd net them millions).

                I have no problem with paying Blizzard for a vanilla server but they refuse to do it and Nost is free so it's not like they are making money off of Blizzards product.

                [–]nachobel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You can't pay to play the game that Nostairius is offering. It doesn't exist legally anymore, anywhere. Blizzard has done away with it, and since they own it, no one can have it.

                This being the digital age, that sort of logic will eventually be destroyed (you can't own ideas anymore), but for now - this is what happens.

                Not trying to flame or anything, just hoping you can understand.

                [–]justmyhumbleopinion 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The price doesnt matter one bit.

                Sure, it was nice it was free, but mainly because that meant the developers werent just in it for the money.

                What matters is that they provided a game that you literally cannot get anymore. A difficult, community driven game. A game catering to the oldschool hardcore gamers.

                If blizzard had instead worked out a deal with the nostalrius staff and made a wow sub mandatory to play on their realms, people would have been celebrating instead. I'd gladly pay.

                [–]bulbasaurz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Your position is irrelevant unless Blizzard is offering official legacy servers.

                Plenty of these people WANT to give Blizzard their money to play 1.2.1, 2.4.3, 3.3.5a.

                Just look at runescape, more people play official OSRS than the newer RS3.

                Keep paying for your linear themepark mmo.

                [–]squirrelwoman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                While I'm not arguing that Blizzard has every right to do this, I feel it's a little different than pirating something that a company was trying to sell: these folks wanted to play a game that was essentially out of print. Even if they didn't install a single expansion pack in the live retail game, there was no way to go back to the look, mechanics, and feel of Vanilla... the core game had completely changed.

                If getting WoW for free was the real issue, people could have just played trial accounts on the retail version and enjoyed all the upgrades.

                [–]odaal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Most of the people were never planning on playing wow either way, so I am not sure how Blizz is losing money from people that dont want to play on retail because of its condition (me included). If anything, a private server is free publicity for Blizzard. I played nostalrius because it was literally the most fun wow has ever been. Yes it wasnt legal, we all knew that, but it was amazing and it was great.

                [–]Lilliu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Except anyone playing Nostalrius wouldn't be playing Blizzard's WoW anyways, there is no damages.

                [–]Wanderbrew 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                It's like if Disney ONLY sold the new star wars movies that come out, and never sold or allowed you to watch the original trilogy. some people DONT care for the New movies and just want to watch the originals, but Disney won't sell them. So they have no choice but to watch bootlegs.

                [–]ygguana 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Funny enough, some of the biggest bootlegs were Disney because Disney always did limited releases as a model. That crapshoot went out the window thankfully with the advent of easy duplication though

                [–]RapidFire4Life 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                To me the thing is that the whole point of a subscription is supposed to be to offset the cost of the servers they run and fuel the development of additional content in some cases. So if someone is running a private server that isn't using updates developed by Blizzard than Blizzard isn't losing out because they aren't allocating server space for those people in the first place.

                [–]HuggableBear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                While it isn't technically accurate, I personally view the situation more like I would an addon for WoW. It uses WoW's framework and data to create something that is otherwise unavailable, or available in a very different format, within the retail game.

                That's why this move stymies me. I could understand it if there was any profit being made by the creators, but there isn't. Blizzard's stance has generally been to let players enjoy what they enjoy as long as it doesn't harm other players or their revenue.

                "Enjoy endless, mind-numbing grinds? Hey, that's insane, but we love you anyway. Have a Title!

                "Enjoy collecting mounts that you will never ever use just because that's what you like? Have another mount. Hell, have three or four!

                "Love mucking about making your UI slick and pretty or Hello Kitty themed? Awesome, man, use our framework to make it easier.

                "Enjoy searching down every last quest in every last zone and completing it just for the sake of saying you've done it? Oh boy, do we have the achievement for you!

                "Love running old raids that are now completely useless just to collect some old piece of loot that you always wanted? HELLO TRANSMOG! None of it is useless now! And we're gonna make some of those old bosses drop PETS, too!

                "We here at Blizzard love to help you play the game in the way that you enjoy.

                "Unless what you enjoy is playing the game as it was ten years ago. If that's what you enjoy, then you can fuck right off. Don't test our resolve on this, we'll sue the shit out of you."

                It's just so out of line with the way they have always functioned that we are all just very hurt. It's as if one day John Cena went out on a Make-A-Wish excursion and decided that there was one particular kid that he was just going to mock instead of being nice. It makes little sense and it tarnishes our view of something that we have always thought was "above the fray", so to speak.

                [–]Tasharox 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I am a long time WoW player. I started playing live in BC and quit when WoD came out, at which point I was so sick of the direction the game was taking that I jumped ship. I joined Nostralius for the nostalgia .. and because I genuinely liked the old gameplay more. I would have paid the subscription to Blizzard if it was an option, money wasn't the issue at all. But majority rules and the devs stopped listening to our complaining a long time ago; the live gameplay will continue to be overly simple because people like to aoe groups of bad guys. They won't bring the old style back and that's why Nostralius is so popular. It was fun while it lasted but I'll be exploring my Steam library until something better comes out.

                [–]djexploit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                No one is there because they would otherwise be paying blizzard. Nostralius (and vanilla WoW) was the first I've enjoyed WoW in over 10 years.

                [–]outspokentourist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Do you pirate music or videos?

                [–]Cock_unblocker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I don't want to play shitty WOD. The game is nothing like vanilla. It's waterdowned and basically a single player RPG. There is never a sense of accomplishment because In comparison it feels like I didn't earn anything with hard work. I would pay a sub to play old wow again, but blizzard doesn't sell it anymore

                [–]Soneca 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                People may have already responded to you but I'm confused as to how you think it is stealing. It's just a small group of people who are playing an older version of a game on their own property (server) of which they do not "benefit" from updates or millions of other players. They purchased the game outright and decided to go play in their own corner. I don't see how that's stealing or wrong. Blizzard is effectively saying that when you buy our products they are not really "yours"

                コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                  [–]KTY_ 36ポイント37ポイント  (60子コメント)

                  You've lost a customer that has been with you for over a decade.

                  ?

                  It's not like you were paying Blizzard any money to play on a private server.

                  [–]You are not preparedaphoenix[S] 124ポイント125ポイント  (53子コメント)

                  Everyone I know who plays on Nostalrius is actually also a blizzard customer.

                  [–]fluxflashor 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Yep.. hell, I know people who maintained active subscriptions to retail and weren't even playing it anymore other than checking on their lolgarrison once a week if even that.

                  [–]absolutezero132 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This is typically how it is. When I was really big into private servers (TBC/Wrath era) I was always subbed to retail. In fact I don't think I've ever played on a private server while not being subbed to retail.

                  [–]KTY_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (18子コメント)

                  Of course. But does Blizzard customer = WoW subscriber? In the case of people who played Nost, my guess would be no 99% of the time.

                  [–]Fim0458 6ポイント7ポイント  (15子コメント)

                  You guessed wrong, in my case at least, almost all of the people I've played with on Nos are also paying WoW subscribers, most of which, are now not paying WoW subscribers, because what Blizz have done here is spat in the face of the community because ????? they aren't doing ANYTHING with vanilla wow, and sure, they have a right to police who does shit with it, it's their game, but that doesn't mean what they did here is okay.

                  This is the WoW equivelant of when Wizards of the Coast sued the 3.5 pathguy javascript character generator that had been there about a decade because they didn't like fans making a 3.5 chara generator, even when they didn't even offer one themselves.

                  [–]jgz_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  My whole guild minus a select few also played retail.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]DavonTheBlue 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Did you also play there yourself by any chance?

                    [–]You are not preparedaphoenix[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    No, I do not.

                    [–]djexploit [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                    To clarify on this point, blizzard customers, but not WoW subscribers.

                    After Diablo 3 and this though... maybe not for long.

                    [–]You are not preparedaphoenix[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    Most people I know who play on Nostalrius are also WoW subscribers. I know some who don't subscribe but play other Blizz games.

                    [–]smartazjb0y 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    And we have another post with a bunch of upvotes saying that all the people they know in Nost are all ex-retail, and there's a bunch of posts from people who like Nost who say they hate retail and don't play it. So which is it?

                    [–]ygguana 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    All of the above. It was a very large community

                    コメントをもっと表示する (26 返事)

                      [–]Darkling5499 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      i've been active on retail since around the time naxx was released, and also played on multiple private servers. retail is so different from vanilla these days that playing on a vanilla server feels like a completely different game.

                      [–]Tsobaphomet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's not a hard concept to grasp that people who play Vanilla WoW also play Retail WoW..

                      Now, Blizzard is essentially fucking us in the ass with a metal pole. After being fucked in the ass by Blizzard, many people will unsubscribe to retail WoW, since clearly the company doesn't give a shit about it's customers.

                      [–]odaal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I did pay for WoW for nearly a decade til I realised I am playing shitty-half-assed game.

                      I've also paid for all Starcraft games, Diablo games aswell. I got every game you can buy on battle.net, and guess which new game I won't buy ever again?

                      [–]Muesli_nom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's not like you were paying Blizzard any money to play on a private server.

                      You'd be surprised how many people keep their sub to WoW open, but play only on Nost.

                      [–]avgYoung 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Actually, I am. I've played the game on and off on retail since vanilla, including every expansion, I've bought every expansion, and I've probably paid over a year of subscribtion where I wasn't even active on retail. I've bought StarCraft2, Diablo 3 and RoS, and I've bought Diablo 2 and LoD. Oh, I almost forgot, I've bought every. single. game. they have ever released except sc2 expansion.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                        [–]metarugia 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

                        No phasing? so, was the server hardware just that much better than what Blizzard uses?

                        [–]Scotyknows 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        it could barely handle it. But it was so fun. Just getting into BWL was always trouble :)

                        [–]Iwasapirateonce 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        They made a lot of performance optimization tweaks (like reducing server draw distance for player's) to improve performance.

                        [–]Caeremonia [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        That's not optimization. That's degrading game play so that your servers won't catch on fire...

                        [–]pallypal 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        Phasing was not a thing before wrath of the lich king.

                        Mind you, the game used to be designed to support lots of people in one area.

                        [–]lollermittens 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think you're thinking of cross-server phasing.

                        Local phasing is part of WoW's infrastructure as a software since its inception.

                        [–]odaal 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        There was no phasing at all. They were planning on adding "phasing, ie, clustering" but had not done it yet.

                        A normal vanilla wow server held 4-6k players. This one handled 12-13k before it would become unstable. These servers blew blizzard out of the water. What the devs did was magnificent.

                        [–]beer_and_pizza 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        What the devs did was magnificent.

                        No doubt there's some good work being done, but they're also running on hardware that's a decade newer.

                        [–]odaal 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        And a budget a thousand if not more times smaller. There were no donations from players. We couldn't give them money if we wanted to . It was all them.

                        [–]MrMeowsen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        yes we could, it was just never promoted. you had to find the URL to the page on your own.

                        [–]ISayHorseShit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Well said +1

                        [–]theskett 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Damn, you took the words right out of my mouth. I could not agree more.

                        [–]Asevio 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Well said, I posted my knee jerk reaction and was downvoted (I deserve it) but i agree 100%

                        [–]Webjunky3 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

                        I don't know if it's fair to assume there's a demand for a server like this. There's demand for a FREE server like this, but there's literally no business benefit for Blizzard to do that. If you could play on a Vanilla server but still had to pay $15 a month, how many of those 12K people do you imagine would stay? I bet it's not a huge percentage.

                        [–]Friendofabook 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I'm not sure how old you are, and in no way do I mean to be disrespectful. But none of the people I've ever known IRL have played on private servers ever because of money. It has always been for that particular expansion. Pretty much all of us have tried retail several times since Cata/MoP/WoD, but never stick with it because it's boring. We play private because it's fun, Vanilla/TBC is amazing (WotlK is more casual but still feels like WoW). The money issue doesn't really seem like a topic to even discuss because I don't feel anyone cares that much about 10 bucks if they really enjoy the game considering most people are adults who like Vanilla.

                        And considering Vanilla came out over 10 years ago, I'm guessing the playerbase on vanilla servers is pretty mature since most have actually played Vanilla (and even if you were 12-14 then you'd be like 23-25 now).

                        [–]gefroy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Payment is not an issue. I have been talking retail vanilla servers for years now and after reading this thread luckily I have to see there are a lot of us.

                        [–]Untoldstory55 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        i think many, many would. especially if it had the blizz launcher and marketing behind it. the experience is VERY different, the game is unrecognizable

                        [–]Jyton 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Literally every person on Nostalrius I've talked to.

                        I would.

                        Half a dozen people in the comments DIRECTLY ABOVE YOURS have said they would.

                        No one has said they only played it because it was free. Literally everyone here is saying they would pay to play Vanilla. Come on, man.

                        [–]ROK247 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        They could just make it another server you can choose from the server select screen. when i get bored with my 100's now i just switch to one of my low-level alts for awhile. same thing. blizzard should want us to have options like that to keep us engaged. otherwise the next step is for us to log out entirely, and maybe never come back.

                        [–]julianWins 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I truly disagree, most people would pay for a technically supported legacy server run by Blizzard that would have regular content releases (BWL, AQ, Naxx, in order) and if we had other servers for Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, etc., I would imagine the guilds that progress through vanilla would move to the BC server, and so on and so forth. Maybe new players would want to start at the beginning like many of us did many years ago.

                        Edit: Spelling

                        [–]PBrokaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It sucks, it truly does but what did you expect? WoW is pay to play and they've lost SOO many subs. Then there's this private server with, how many potential subs did you say?

                        [–]Sagragoth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I would resub in a heartbeat, fam.

                        [–]Reznor_PT 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        12k is nothing...

                        [–]Ultenth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Honestly, I've never played private, but I've been on and off with WoW since TBC, and a large part of the reason was the fact that they ripped all of the social and community elements of the game out with all the LFG, phasing, etc. stuff. You no longer develop friendships and rivalries with people on the same server, and it just felt like a large lobby game, like playing a RPG version of CoD.

                        If they brought back the social elements of the game, I would pay for a second subscription, and probably play there most of the time. The current system of interactions with random faceless strangers who you never see again makes me really tire of the game, and I spend more time reminiscing about all the cool interactions and moments that I had with friends and rivals back in Vanilla/TBC days.

                        [–]Mortimist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Well said my friend. This game brings people together. It's a shame they won't incense that connection through vanilla.

                        [–]Rhawk187 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Can you tell me what was so fun about it? People complain about having "nothing to do" in WoD, but on the old a vanilla server, you literally have the same handful or raids to run over and over. Doesn't that get boring?

                        [–]treestick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I flew a guildie I met on this server out from Michigan to California for a concert, and 6 of us total from the surrounding area all met up. This server was more of a community than I ever experienced in my 17 years of playing MMORPGs.

                        In the late 00's they said it was impossible to make a vanilla server, in 2014 they said "You don't want it, it was too tedious" and now they pull this shit. I'm seriously never buying another product from this company that's idea of game design in the last decade has just been "let's find interesting, dynamic games and make a dumbed-down rip off of it." I'm gonna sit back and laugh as their movie flops.

                        [–]Guyskee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        A customer that started stealing from them...

                        [–]Barialdalaran 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        You've lost a customer that has been with you for over a decade.

                        See you in Legion

                        [–]Daffan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        12k Online and then they had a PVE server which was growing really fast. They also were in the planning phase for a TBC server.

                        [–]Piccolo232 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I would post in this thread but you already said everything I would say.

                        [–]PruneBrothers 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I don't know the full details with this, but another game I truly loved took a "better" approach.

                        EverQuest had several unofficial emulated servers pop up that were "classic" servers. The game had so many expansions and a community that had always talked about the "better" days. Eventually some emulated servers popped up, which one I played only included the classic game and the first expansion. SOE decided to make an official server themselves that would be the classic game and through endgame progression, the players would unlock the next expansion for the whole server by completing the end game goals of each expansion. It was pretty sweet, but didn't fully succeed in providing a classic EverQuest experience. Regardless, I think it was the correct approach to providing what the players wanted.

                        My memory is cloudy, so some things I've said might not be right, if so...my bad. EQ 4 Life!

                        [–]DuckSmash 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        For awhile now they have been driving away dedicated fans like you. Blizzard had built up such a great reputation and loyal fan base from diablo/starcraft/warcraft.

                        I wish i could sit in on the meetings where management tries to continuously come up with new excusee to explain their steady decline.

                        [–]pappabrun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Blizzard said no to Dota and let Valve get their hands on it.

                        The only reason millions of people still logged on battle.net and WC3 almost 10 years after it was released, they just said "fuck it" basically, and look where that is now.

                        [–]Ryan1188 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I've vowed not to buy another blizzard game back in cata.... this just further solidifies my position. Fuck blizzard. Companies dead to me.

                        [–]-Azax- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        You were playing an illegal server, deal with it.

                        [–]MattitudeZERO 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Serious question. How many people are playing because It's Vanilla vs How many people are playing because it's Free?

                        [–]SchrodingersRapist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I know people that play wow will say

                        I don't guess you know what you think you do. I play WoW, but a good friend of mine plays on Nost. It fills a niche that blizz refuses to acknowledge or provide. So, I'm not in favor of blizzard shitting on them at all.

                        [–]Zimmonda 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think this is the biggest misconception and flaw in the private server "scene".

                        12k people for a game that is free isn't exactly that amazing. Now I understand there is a difference between active players and total accounts but for comparison league of legends which is another free game has 27 million people a day. World Of Warcraft the subscription based model peaked at about 12 million people on subscription accounts. Furthermore Nost's operators spent immense amounts of time and banning cheats, dupes, gold sellers, botters, etc. So it wouldn't be unfair to say that a significant portion of their total accounts didn't simply exist as throwaways.

                        Despite the fact that 12k people sounds like a lot it simply isn't worth the investment a AAA game requires. Blizzard has said multiple times that they don't just have an old instance of WoW laying around ready to go and that it would take massive coding changes to integrate into their current server architecture. You mentioned that you enjoyed the idea of that many people in a single wow server; unfortunately it also caused horrendous lag issues that could make the server unplayable; Blizzard split up the population and capped server pops so that the game wouldn't be unbearably laggy. Vanilla wow was never like that either.

                        So lets do it lets walk through making a "classic server"

                        So when exactly do you set it? At Launch and have it roll through in real time? After Battlegrounds were added? If the game progresses does it reset when it hits BC or do we now play BC? Keep in mind that at launch a the game was lacking quite a few features the pvp system being the most glaring one. But lets say for the sake of this exercise we start at Launch and roll through in real time and we're undecided if we "reset"

                        Okay so now we have to decide how vanilla we're going to be. Do we have the new quest helper system? Do we have connecting flight points? Do we have the Bind on Account system? LFG? An AH in every city? The additional zeppelins? How many races? Do we have all the races be all the classes they can be currently or do we have it restricted like it was at launch? But again lets say for the sake of this exercise that we decide to forgo all of those things and make it as "pure" as we can

                        Okay so what bugs do we fix? Blizzard has stated in the past that many bugs in wow were fixed by later expansions or by changing mechanics for example Ret Paladins getting "fixed" was punted to WOTLK so now those bugs need to have alternative solutions or simply be left in the game.

                        Okay so what about specs? Are we okay with certain classes having one viable spec? What about classes having nonfunctional specs that were fixed in later patches? Will Paladins not get a taunt for their tank spec just cuz? Do they then get their taunt when the server progresses to that "patch date?" What about survival hunters? Ele Shamans? Balance Druids? Assassination Rogues? Are people who enjoy those specs just gonna have to deal with it?

                        Then you have to figure out a pricing model; because we've established that we basically have to remake wow even if we're just doing a stock standard out of the box reset. That's still a lot of coding, updating, bug testing, troubleshooting etc etc that needs to be done. So you're essentially running another game the size of wow. Is it a second 15/month payment with a 60 dollar buy in? If you do that then aren't you just cannibilizing your current day wow population? So say you offer it for free with your wow subscription, well now you've just doubled the work you need to do without increasing your profit, that doesn't fly at a business. So say you do a mix like 7.50 more per month and no buy in and you can't buy it without a current wow sub. Okay so aside from all the people screaming that they don't even want the current wow sub you now need to finance your "legacy wow" on 7.50 a month. Blizzard has revealed that wow cost 200 million over its first 4 years. So 50 mill a year is your goal. Assuming you can keep dev and upkeep costs comparable to 2004. Thats 555k subs per month just to break even. In a business you are looking for a return of about 50% so we double that and it turns out the vanilla legacy servers need to have an active population of about 1.1 million. Again assuming that you can make it only cost 200 mill over the first 4 years. This means Blizzard would have to double their current costs and wouldn't even see the possibility of doubling their profits.

                        Legacy servers are a much tougher prospect when you actually sit down and think it out because everyone remembers vanilla wow differently. For example my favorite part of vanilla wow was Alterac Valley. That wasn't released until 8 months after launch. So I wouldn't even bother subbing until AV was added.

                        TL;DR Blizzard would have to make and operate a separate wow that would only cannibalize current wow. Essentially doubling their costs without doubling their profit.

                        [–]skeenerbug 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Eloquently put. I didn't play on this or any private servers, and I haven't played WoW since MoP, but this move is nevertheless saddening. Hopefully they add vanilla servers but I would honestly be really surprised if they did. I know I'd be more tempted to resub to an older version of WoW than the current "stand in town and wait for queue to pop" WoW.

                        RIP.

                        [–]StanleyDarsh22 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I feel everyone who reads your comment and agrees with it should email it to blizzard

                        [–]HowdyAudi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I just heard about this last week. I was planning to look into playing there. Vanilla was awesome. I was looking forward to going back and raiding again. No mmo has captured the magic that vanilla had.

                        [–]Hyalinemembrane [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        Bringing back Vanilla isn't the solution to WoW's crumbling player base.

                        The issue, if I had to summarize it, is the issue it would be that the game has lost it's MMORPG aspect. It feels like a single player game.

                        The player base peaked during the WOTLK days for a reason. The answer lies in history. First of all was a challenge- nobody wants to play an easy game. Raid finder difficulty is an absolute travesty. Players should be forced to work hard for end game content. You don't waste time creating these amazing models and landscapes and then let players simply faceroll their way through content. No, that shouldn't be how it works. Dungeon finder was fine, but raid finder in my opinion ruins the game. Players no longer have any incentive to run dungeons because RF gear is better.

                        The social aspect of the game is gone. Forming a raid group takes almost no effort these days. I like the building tool Blizz has released, that was undoubtedly a huge step as it facilitates pugs. Vanilla was so fun to play because the game was built around the social side of the game. World events like AQ, massive BGs like Alterac Valley, group quests that couldn't be soloed.

                        I enjoyed WoW because it was a challenge, because in order to raid ICC I would have to actually go and find people. Raid finder killed the social aspect of WoW. Simple. If Blizz removes RF difficulty the game would be SO much better. They nerfed RF gear and made it worse- sure. But it's still fucking stupid that you can experience end game content by facerolling the keyboard.

                        [–]lewdite [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        But blizzard is great at doing what it's players want... 10 years too late coughDOTAcough

                        [–]DIGGERDOG687 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        As a player who only started in WoD I would love the chance to experience what so many people love and join in the nostalgia. I would definitely pay for a vanilla sub

                        [–]Jimbobaus -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        You summed it up when you said YOUR game. It was and is blizzards intellectual property and as such they have a right to protect it. What NOS was doing was illegal plain and simple.

                        [–]midnightauro 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        I have given up on Retail (it's just not the game for me anymore), but this news is heartbreaking. I know their legal teams will just go after anyone they see, but... Damnit. I'm not looking forward to hitting up my guilds forums tonight.

                        Back to playing solo I guess. As depressing as that prospect is.

                        [–]Friendofabook 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Playing Solo?

                        [–]midnightauro 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        If you say... knew a place to download something resembling the server and client for a given expansion, you could play WoW solo on your own PC.

                        (I know that promoting those places and giving instructions is a no-no so I hope this is vague enough.)

                        [–]Friendofabook 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Yeah I actually googled this but it was way too complicated... Need a dedicated Windows Server, MySQL, bunch of coding. Meh... PM?

                        [–]texasjoe 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        You know, Blizzard hasn't had a great track record of keeping their fingers on the pulse of what their community wants. I mean, look at the MOBA situation. They had an opportunity to lock DOTA in, and they didn't, so the team working on it split up to either create League of Legends or take DOTA to Valve. What does Blizzard have to show for it now? I cut rate MOBA that doesn't enjoy the kind of popularity it could have. Then there's that whole butt-pose fiasco in Overwatch, heh.

                        [–]odaal 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I played Heroes of the storm as it came out. I made various balance/UI/ideas for the game on the subreddit and battle net forums. No response from blizzard, anywhere, yet the community agreed with it all. Now guess what they're doing ? 1 year later they are implementing most of the stuff I suggested to do.

                        A year later.

                        When hots is on its last legs.

                        Blizzard is losing grasp of how to develop games and produce a good healthy product for the consumers. Overwatch will flop the same way HOTS did. It will be "big" for 2-4 weeks and fade into obscurity afterwards.

                        [–]Rispetto 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        12k people? How were the scripts, were they at least decent?

                        [–]odaal 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        It was 100% blizzlike. Some very minor bugs, but those bugs existed in vanilla, so it's too blizzlike for it's own good. People raided, did pvp and everythin was the same as it was 12 years ago.

                        [–]Heyguysimback 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        "They deserve it, it was a private server, you all deserve the server get taken down"

                        Well, yeah, because they, and every single person that played on a private server, was stealing from Blizzard.

                        [–]gefroy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        What blizzard loose here? Nothing else than their reputation - what is gobn already, though.

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