全 47 件のコメント

[–]FeezbullGiggs 10ポイント11ポイント  (18子コメント)

Ok one simple question:

Then who should our next manager be? A credible and proper suggestion would be nice.

[–]StannisJrScholesy -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Giggsy! /s

This will probably go unanswered or people will suggest unrealistic managers as usual.

[–]tartanbornandred[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Pochettino would fit the bill and is my proper and credible suggestion as requested.

The key point is that the manager needn't necessarily be the proven star; but as illustrated by Bayern and Barca with Heynkes, Guardiola, Enrique, the most important thing is that the manager fits the clubs ethos. Giggs fits that criteria but obviously represents a risk with the lack of experience. The advantage Giggs has over Mourinho is that Giggs wont undo the rebuilding we've been working on.

Other than those two, United will be far more aware of the promising managers around the world who would fit our desired approach far better than a fan who doesnt watch too much outside the premiership and champlions league.

[–]jbiresqHerrera 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel like a lot of people would take Poch over Mourinho. But there is literally no chance he's coming this summer. He loves it at Spurs, the supporters love him and Levy would be hell to deal with. He'll go to Madrid once Zidane gets sacked.

[–]Pigeon_AssholeBlind's Sexy Hair 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He'll go to Madrid once Zidane gets sacked.

So Christmas then?

[–]StannisJrScholesy 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

What makes you think Poch would come?

Other than those two, United will be far more aware of the promising managers around the world who would fit our desired approach far better than a fan who doesnt watch too much outside the premiership and champlions league.

Worked well with LVG and his "attacking philosophy" didn't it?

[–]tartanbornandred[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've covered my view on van Gaal and his philosophy and what I believe he is trying to do in my post.

What I am saying is we cannot abandon our well set out plan because it has been tough this season. If we keep doing that we end up like Real changing manager every season or two and ending up making reactionary appointments that do more harm than good.

[–]StannisJrScholesy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

ending up making reactionary appointments that do more harm than good.

Sticking with the same manager and showing no signs of progress also will do more harm than good. Why should we stick with his philosophy if we haven't seen any improvement? It makes zero sense. We have had the exact same tactical issues two seasons in a row, dropping silly points and no signs of that changing. Struggling to finish fourth two seasons in a row (ESPECIALLY when all the big teams are doing poor this season) should be deemed isn't improvement, it's regress.

[–]FeezbullGiggs -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I too think he's a good option and actually a better fit in terms of the transition to a different but close enough style to what we currently employ.

However, he's not realistic I think as well. Why? He's built a great thing so far at Tottenham that may or may not come to fruit yet. Surely he wants to continue and see it bear fruit (as he wanted with Southampton but they disagreed on the funding/selling etc) so, he's not likely wanting to leave to start building things over again with us.

And by the time he may want to leave, Spurs might be good enough that we aren't any better besides a brand name versus say, Madrid in a way.

Thanks for a proper response advocating discussion instead of the countless others suggesting Giggs or, erm erm... Not answering when asked who else.

Cheers.

[–]Idislikemyroommate -2ポイント-1ポイント  (9子コメント)

I've always wondered why Laurent Blanc hasn't being touted more often.

He's an ex player and a good manager. Has built a decent PSG side (albeit with a lot of money) and has shown he is capable of managing in the Champions League.

It's not that I'm calling him to be the manager but I've wondered why he hasn't been mentioned as much.

[–]FeezbullGiggs 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Maybe because he's only done it in the French league and people see PSG as strong enough to get the results he's gotten in CL football so, it's par/not too special.. Maybe.

[–]Idislikemyroommate -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

I can see that of course but managers have been hired on less. I mean wasn't Pellegrini hired on the basis of his Champions League success with Malaga?

[–]FeezbullGiggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

But Malaga. PSG walk the league in general... Not the same really. But yeah he also managed madrid remember?

Blanc isn't a bad manager. Just that people think he's not a tested manager maybe. I think he's good and it'd be nice to see him do well somewhere else too but, there's no reason for him to leave unless it's for a big job I would say. Great city/job/club/funds/players.

[–]Idislikemyroommate 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was just pointing out that managers can get appointed on Champions League form rather than league. That is true but he was hired from a spell at Villarreal, where he got them to the CL semis.

You may be right, I was just giving an example of a credible manager opposed to the choice of Jose. Not saying he's better or I want him but if a list was drawn up i'd expect him on there at least.

[–]FeezbullGiggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh alright. I didn't get what you were trying to say about the Pelligrini and Blanc comparisons initially actually.

But yeah Blanc isn't a big favourite for a few reasons but he wouldn't be the worst choice either for sure.

[–]ManUToasterDiego Forlan 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How's Champions League success with Malaga less impressive than the same with PSG? Also, Pellegrini was already an established manager that had coached big teams like Real Madrid... Blanc has only managed PSG if I'm not mistaken... He's done well but Ligue 1 is still a joke and tbh he should probably be doing better in the CL, I guess we'll see how it goes this year. I still think going from wrapping up League 1 mid season vs the competition of the PL would be a massive shock for him, shit I think it'll be a massive shock for Pep and he's definitely more qualified.

[–]Idislikemyroommate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wasn't meaning the example was less sorry, just that Pellegrini can be argued to have done that.

That is true, though he lasted a year (I think?), and even then he got that job because he had done well with Villarreal so you can use that example as well.

I totally get what you mean though, I was just trying to give a credible managerial choice to what OP was saying.

[–]knoxisbackMemphis 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

He signed a new contract at PSG not too long ago.

[–]Idislikemyroommate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hm fair enough, though it does seem that whenever a new manager comes available they are often linked with the PSG job.

Also contracts aren't always the best indication of whether managers are available or not.

[–]NestledrinkHerrera 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bayern, Barca, and Fergie's United all eclipse those side’s achievements and, in this era of money centric football, have dominated year after year

Not sure which Barca team you're talking about but in their current team, they literally bought Neymar and Suarez. Also Turan, Aleix Vidal, Rakitic, Mascherano, Vermalen, etc etc.

Tone down the rose tinted glass a bit, shall we?

[–]jbiresqHerrera 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Even Messi is a once in 30 year talent that no club could rely on their academy to produce. Even Iniesta is a generational talent. They hit the jackpot with their academy but, like you said, they've been going outside it a lot lately to get talent.

[–]NestledrinkHerrera 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just like our class of 92. There is no others like them, really.

[–]oranguthang87 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

Who then should be the next United manager?

This kind of post always takes place after we have a few wins in a row. Nothing new here

[–]tartanbornandred[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Pochettino would fit the bill.

The key point is that the manager needn't necessarily be the proven star; but as illustrated by Bayern and Barca with Heynkes, Guardiola, Enrique, the most important thing is that the manager fits the clubs ethos. Giggs fits that criteria but obviously represents a risk with the lack of experience. The advantage Giggs has over Mourinho is that Giggs wont undo the rebuilding we've been working on.

Other than those two, United will be far more aware of the promising managers around the world who would fit our desired approach far better than a fan who doesnt watch too much outside the premiership and champlions league.

[–]oranguthang87 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

there is no way in hell we get Poch this season...

he has built a good team @ Tottenham and I don't see him leaving. If we don't get Mou this off season, we won't be able to get anyone else anytime soon. And I honestly can't stand another season under LVG at this point.

[–]knoxisbackMemphis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Poch wouldn't leave spurs after the amazing season they'd have. Not realistic at all.

[–]Irish-DevilThe Beautiful Ander Herrera -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Who then should be the next United manager?

This kind of redundant reply always takes place when somebody points out the flaws in Mourinho. Nothing new here

[–]ManUToasterDiego Forlan 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is that question redundant haha???

Mourinho is the only manager available that seems capable of getting us out of this slump. If someone is going to say he's not, isn't "who then?" the most logical follow up question?

[–]Irish-DevilThe Beautiful Ander Herrera -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mourinho has never pulled a team out of a 'slump'. Don't know where you get that notion from.

[–]K-QuickBeckham 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This detailed approach may be overkill for professional footballers, or it may be exactly what is required for van Gaal to create his vision, his masterpiece.

Who have you been watching this season? We've invested so much money and his vision or "masterpiece" is even worse.

I don't see the logic in not even considering Mourinho when his as our alternative option ffs.

[–]Entrepreneur_GirlJuan Manuel Mata García 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I would actually take the time to read this but I've seen a post like this soooooooooo many times. What makes your post different from the rest that you think can change fans point of view?

[–]AlpacamyLlama 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

In all fairness, this is one of the better arguments against appointing Mourinho I’ve read. And this is coming from someone who still believes he is the best candidate for the job.

The main argument I would have against yours is that United now find themselves in a state of an ideological approach or a pragmatic approach. We’ve tried the latter, and I applaud them for that. We went for Moyes, the young British manager who had earned his spot at the big table, and for a multitude of reasons, it failed. And I think it failed worse than we could have imagined. Less than one year later, he’s gone and we go for one of the giants of European football, who is also facing accusations of being past his best.

And, again, it’s failed. Small improvements have been made – some of the deadwood has gone, some youngsters have been given chances following a heavy number of injuries, and we’re no longer embarrassed when we meet the top sides. Yet we remain wildly off the pace in the PL, and our European performance was a disgrace.

Now there are managers who would be ideally suited at this time – Poetecchino, as one example. Klopp would have been another. And, of course, Guardiola. But he is simply not available. Neither are many of the others we would go for.

If LvG has to move on, and he does have to, we have to look elsewhere. It would be career suicide (as a manager) to put Giggs up against Guardiola, Klopp, Conte, Wenger, Poetecchino, in his debut season, with a squad coming off the back of a poor three years. Almost like trying to teach a toddler to walk whilst putting a rucksack filled with rocks on his back.

Now, Mourinho, he is Mr. Pragmatism. I concede there is nothing to prove or indicate he will institute a long-term vision, nor implement a club playing style. It’s never happened so it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise. What he will do though is drag United back to the top (at least challenging, if not guaranteed title winners). Rather than use a weaker squad or inexperienced youngsters and force them to fit into his rigid plan, there will be a strong attempt to make the best use of what he has. His tactical knowledge is astounding, his results in the short term incredible. We may use counter-attack more, the youngsters may not get as much a chance as we’d like, but we will climb the table. He’s proved it at every club he has managed – he knows the league, he is obsessed with winning, and he will use everything at his disposal to ensure it works.

So why do I think this is more important than long term planning at this stage? Because football now is unforgiving. In the 80s and early 90s, you could recover. But now, you miss out on CL, you immediately become less attractive to top talent; you lose the revenue; you miss your place on the world stage. United may have hundreds of millions of supporters, but how many of say the Far East will stick around whilst we struggle.

Mourinho can go toe to toe with any manager, both on and off the pitch. He can attract top level talent. He has literally never failed to win the league, and has at times achieved the remarkable in the Champions League. It may be uglier, but it gives the board a chance to stabilise things – build up the academy under Butt again; bring in that Director of Football; continue to make the squad stronger. The challenge will be to ensure the wheels don’t fall off. But I still think managing that would be easier in two to three years, then to deal with a number of years of underachievement and loss of power in English football

[–]StannisJrScholesy 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Right now it seems most fans want any signs of sustained improvement leading to any success, rather than more regress. If we continue to regress then we become further and further away from any success.

we need a manager who will build something that can be carried on after they leave.

That's assuming the next manager that comes in will want to play possession-based football. If they want to do it their way (which they most likely will) then automatically whatever LVG is doing is going to be broken again. And why would any manager want to continue with a system that has proved to not work well in the PL?

[–]tartanbornandred[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes we need an established style and ethos, then manager after manager who will evolve the setup left to them, not dismantle it and start again.

Other clubs manager this fine.

[–]StannisJrScholesy -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

And why would any manager want to continue with a system that has proved to not work well in the PL?

The only options for possession football who seem good at it are Tuchel and Pep - both unrealistic.

You can't just tell a manager to continue LVG's system. They will want to implement their own ideas and what has worked well with them in the past, what they're familiar with.

[–]tartanbornandred[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

And a key part of what I am saying is that in Ferguson, Guardiola, Enrique, Heynkes, and more, United, Barca, and Bayern have proven that it is more important to appoint a manager that fits the club rather than one who is necessarily established as a top manager beforehand.

[–]StannisJrScholesy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So considering next season Conte, Klopp, Guardiola, Wenger, Poch will be managing teams, you would rather us go for a completely unknown, continuing LVG's philosophy of mediocrity, therefore cementing ourselves as the new Liverpool, over a proven winner who is likely to steady the ship, create a better squad, likely to bring some sort of success, and then leave us in better shape in 3 years time for a new manager. Bizarre.

[–]FeezbullGiggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes of course. But they do it when the foundations are already successful or when they have someone who's dying to join them and be able to continue from the previous setup.

Ours hasn't been successful for one.

Next, the number of available or likely available guys to take over that can expand on the current setup is very limited. Tuchel? Nope no way he wants to join right now. Poch? Same thing.

De boer? Seems to have fallen off a bit after his hype last season or before. Not too many else so that just leaves us with a likely choice of a new beginning again.

This is where a director of football comes in as he knows and sets a style as agreed by the staff and then he recruits/recommends managers that fit the ethos instead of any available big name or so (madrid) like how bayern or barcelona more so for their style, do. They can then know who is likely to be signed next should current manager fail and have option 1/2/3 even.

Without that? We just do what madrid do and go for whomever we deem best fit. And this is why Berta joining is as big an impact as Mourinho (if both do join us). To set the precedent and follow up with w succession and recruitment plan for players and managers alike.

[–]darthese 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

How much help has youth been to these club? I think youth is overrated if we had an absolute great talent in our ranks with the right discipline and proper training he'll rise to the top Jose can't stand in the way of that. The big clubs are doing well because they have the best player it's that simple. Jose can help at least too slow down the tide of the best players joining LA liga or Bayern.

[–]tartanbornandred[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

18 league titles and 3 European cups won by Fergie and Busby embracing and establishing our heritage of youth development. Everything about United has been built on youth; his can you ask how much help youth players have been?

You are right that top youth talents will rise regardless of Mourinho, just not at his club while he is manager; see Lukaku.

[–]mrpiggywinkles52Rooney 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everyone goes on and on about youth but seriously how many exceptional youth talents (excluding this year) have we had since the class of 92? Not many, those we've seen this year that are good enough will have a place in a Mourinho team. Rashford, Fosu Mensah, Lingard etc.

[–]AlpacamyLlama 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lukaku did back Mourinho up on that, mind. Maybe look at Morata instead

[–]ReflectingGodMata 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have no reason to worry.

His approach has been successful for Porto, Inter, & Chelsea, but that is because for those clubs a title or two is success. At United that is not enough; we need a manager who will build something that can be carried on after they leave. This is what Barca and Bayern have; this is what van Gaal was appointed to do.

Barca and Bayern are 2 of the 4 richest teams in the world. They have a complete monopoly on their league and a rich history allowing them to bring in any player they want.

Their current dominance is built off a few exceptional talent that came through a while ago, just as ours was 20 years ago. This isn't the rule, this is the exception. What keeps this team on top is the ridiculous money they spend on ready made talent that have years ahead of them.

Mou does the exact same thing, just as Fergie did post 2000. We bought loads of very young players and those entering their prime. These players became the core of a team that went on to dominate for 10 years. Rooney, Ronaldo, Ferdinand were all very young. Then players like Evra, Vidic, Carrick, Tevez, RVN etc were brought in at a relatively young age also. How many youth players regularly featured in that dominant period that were brought through after 2000? Fletcher, O'Shea and Welbeck is all I can think of, all mostly bit-part players.

We already have this core of young talents and look set to bring in more young talents like Sanches, Stones and even talk of Dembele. Our youth academy is producing some very talented players but just how good? Where in our accademy is our Muller? Our Alaba, Lahm or Swcheinsteiger? Where is our Messi, Iniesta and Xavi? There isn't.

Thanks to LVG (even if due to a ridiculous injury crisis) these players have featured regularly and shown they are more than qualified to be competent squad players. The likes of Rashford and BoJack won't displace Shaw and Martial but they will get minutes under Mou because they've shown there is no reason for us to buy a backup player. Mou has shown before that if a youngster is good enough and willing to work hard for his system, they'll play. Loftus-Cheek had the quality to be playing regular minutes but didn't because he is lazy and not what the system demands. Morata on the other hand is an academy product that did feature regularly under Mou because he fit the system and had the quality. Though not academy products, players like Zouma and Varane were regular features in his Chelsea and Real side. His top target last season was Stones and I wouldn't be surprised if he went for him again. He is also looking to bring in 18 year old Sanches.

This is where you have it wrong. Mou may have been a short term appointment at the clubs he has been at but every time, he has had the long term in mind. Every time, the sides he has left are in a much better state than they were when he arrived. He left Chelsea in an awful state this season but they still have arguably the best squad in the league with some brilliant young players. The defense maybe needs an overhaul but otherwise he has a squad of players that still have plenty of years ahead of them. The only exception of this is Inter who had a relatively old squad when he left but these players were still top players 3 years later even if Inter did go through a rough patch.

His methods are very demanding and you'll find that with any modern manager. His issues recently have come from two sides filled with lots of egos, teams that have lost managers before to player power. There were no issues at Inter, Porto or Chelsea first time around (sacked at Chelsea for disagreement with those at the top). At Chelsea he lost control of a few of his players, at Madrid he had turned sour, and rightly so. Casillias was leaking information and turning teammates against him for simply dropping him because he wasn't good enough. Could you see that happening at United?

I expect all of our youngsters to feature regularly under Mou, not as first team regulars but at squad players. If you think any manager would deliver anything else, you're very mistaken.

[–]GurpreetMannManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I find it strange that we claim to be a possession based team but when we are defending a lead, we never seem to be able to keep the ball?

 

For me, the philosophy needs to go and I'll be ecstatic with Mourinho coming in