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Is chaos magic Pagan? (self.pagan)

SEQU0IAShintoism and eclectic wicca influenced Chaot が 投稿

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[–]hrafnblodÆnglo-Texæn Heathen 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think most people dislike "chaos magicians" because of unwarranted narcissism and arrogance, combined with flagrant disrespect to everything they touch or encounter, and the fact that by and large, they're self-obsessive little twats without any apparent semblance of understanding for how the world works beyond their own deluded "experience."

Actually, it's just easier to tell you to take your shitty tone and shove it up your ass.

[–]Akuma106 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

**Actually, it's just easier to tell you to take your shitty tone and shove it up your ass.

I'm not sure why you didn't lead with this. Honestly its kinda of refreshing and I have always found your forthrightness to be both a good and enlightening read.

We can definitely be disrespectful, we rely on personal experience and we are as often looking for the mystic as the logical.

but surely you have also been told to take your shitty tone and shove it up your ass a few times (and even deserved it a few times). For someone who probably wouldn't even identify as pagan except for the fact that polytheists are pagan or that heathens are 'sorta pagan', do you really need to police this.

You think we're being rude to your gods and quiet frankly you're bitching about being rude to you. The gods will give or smite as they please, I think you'd be the first to agree that humans are way the fuck down on their list of things to do today. All the nastiness is because you're offended. Obviously the gods are big enough to deal with offense in their own way.

So why are you so offended by some people claiming to be pagan that you don't agree with. There's lots from what I can tell. I'm sure even a few of those people you don't agree with would qualify as narcisist's and let me tell you on the arrogance claim you are far from spotless.

So why is this kid who is admittedly an idiot, bothering you so much that you feel the need to police the pagan. I'm sure there are many other just as zany, poorly thought out, just plain rubbish pagans out there.

What's bringing the wrath of the Anglo Texan down upon us. I'm not your kin, i'm not your kith, what happened to that community focused ethics and tribalism of disdain that I thought was the one true way (for your lot at least).

But no, Ass-blasted on the internet, see Heathens do belong in the pagan circle after all. Maybe next time you'll run for sheriff before acting like one.

[–]hrafnblodÆnglo-Texæn Heathen 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

For someone who probably wouldn't even identify as pagan except for the fact that polytheists are pagan or that heathens are 'sorta pagan', do you really need to police this.

How novel, a presumptive bullshit statement from a Chaos Magician.

The gods will give or smite as they please, I think you'd be the first to agree that humans are way the fuck down on their list of things to do today. All the nastiness is because you're offended. Obviously the gods are big enough to deal with offense in their own way.

The nastiness is because of the attitude you're taking toward people out of some sense of superiority just because "We rely on personal experience [so it's okay to be disrespectful to any tradition we want because personal experience is better]."

Because you haven't actually earned that attitude, because you're in no way demonstrating that you know what you're talking about beyond vague (and baseless) assumptions about motivations and about the priorities of gods.

So why are you so offended by some people claiming to be pagan that you don't agree with

Lots of people I disagree with claim to be pagan. I don't agree with druids or wiccans, but they're still pagan, for all intents and purposes. Magic, however, isn't religion. Practicing it doesn't make you pagan, in the same way taking Yoga classes doesn't make you Hindu.

I'm sure even a few of those people you don't agree with would qualify as narcisist's and let me tell you on the arrogance claim you are far from spotless.

I don't pretend to be spotless.

So why is this kid who is admittedly an idiot, bothering you so much

The kid isn't bothering me, really. He's (or she, whatever) a bit annoying, but I'm not policing paganism in his case; if he's Wiccan (as his flair implies, even though he subsequently denies it for whatever reason), he's pagan. I'd argue that if he's Shinto, he isn't, just because practitioners of Shinto don't really call themselves pagan as a rule. If he's just a Chaos Magician, he isn't pagan, for the aforementioned reasons. Paganism is a category of religions. Magic isn't a religion.

So yeah, the OP isn't bothering me. You are.

What's bringing the wrath of the Anglo Texan down upon us. I'm not your kin, i'm not your kith, what happened to that community focused ethics and tribalism of disdain that I thought was the one true way (for your lot at least).

Because it's still obnoxious to have definitions for things like "paganism" (that are relevant to me) muddled by imbeciles who conflate magic with religion.

Moreover, you act like you know me, but you kind of obviously don't, from this statement.

But no, Ass-blasted on the internet, see Heathens do belong in the pagan circle after all. Maybe next time you'll run for sheriff before acting like one.

And then you follow up with a statement that isn't even coherent, which, y'know. Is pretty swell. Scurry on over to /r/occult, this tripe is actually on-topic there.

[–]Akuma106 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So wait , reasons why chaos magicians can be and often are pagan is off topic in the thread about whether chaos magicians are pagan is not.

Scurry Scurry Surry, im all over it. Having a talk on the internet is "Bothering You" , you're put out because we're 'mudding paganism'.

My point is and continues to be that most if not all chaos magicians have enough metaphysical assumptions to be safely in the definition of pagan.

So one question, what part you trying to tell people who call themselves pagan that they are not is not 'policing' the community. It's my main beef with this. With the athiest you had a point but the whole perspective changing bit works on an assumed plurality of divinities aka polytheism.

Go to /r/occult? Am I surposed to be ashamed of magic work. Is that the last word of the great hraf. I will because I do post there, but your giving bad advice because your afraid that "your" pagan will have to come to terms with anything but reconstructionism. yeah, not leaving not going anywhere.

See your policing (acting like sheriff) the definition of paganism (Telling chaos magicians if they are or are not pagan and this is not the first time you have been accused of this , you know this song and dance a little) when you are not in any particular position of authority over the subject matter (and I insinuated that this is in bad form, by suggesting that you ought to run for that position before fulfilling it).

Not even coherent eh, but calling names is fun. I am a Pagan Chaos Magician and there is nothing you can do about it. Have a good night.

[–]hrafnblodÆnglo-Texæn Heathen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So wait , reasons why chaos magicians can be and often are pagan is off topic in the thread about whether chaos magicians are pagan is not.

No, and neither is that what was said. But the answer to the thread's original question is still, as always, an unequivocal "no," because magic is not religion, even if the two are sometimes linked.

My point is and continues to be that most if not all chaos magicians have enough metaphysical assumptions to be safely in the definition of pagan.

There is much more to being pagan than "metaphysical assumptions."

So one question, what part you trying to tell people who call themselves pagan that they are not is not 'policing' the community.

Because magic, objectively speaking, is not religion in and of itself. I'm not saying there aren't pagans who also practice chaos magic, but practicing chaos magic does not make you pagan, no more than it makes you Christian or Sikh or some other thing.

It's my main beef with this. With the athiest you had a point but the whole perspective changing bit works on an assumed plurality of divinities aka polytheism.

There is no assumption of polytheism inherent in chaos magic. I've seen as many self-proclaimed chaos magicians as not have no actual belief in deities whatsoever.

Go to /r/occult?

It's a more fitting sub for exclusive magical discussion.

but your giving bad advice because your afraid that "your" pagan will have to come to terms with anything but reconstructionism. yeah, not leaving not going anywhere.

Putting words in my mouth. I'm not telling anyone they have to be reconstructionist. I'm always ready to admit that Wiccans and the like are pagan, but that is principally because there is more to Wicca than just ceremonial magic.

(Telling chaos magicians if they are or are not pagan and this is not the first time you have been accused of this , you know this song and dance a little)

Again. Not doing this. Learn to read.

Not even coherent eh, but calling names is fun.

Saying "this isn't coherent" isn't name-calling, you dingus.

I am a Pagan Chaos Magician and there is nothing you can do about it.

And I never said one can't be pagan and a chaos magician. Just that one is not the other.

Have a good night.

Shove your fake politeness up the deepest, darkest part of your unfortunate ass.