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"Ron Paul-style libertarianism was harsh on government but always compassionate toward individuals. Trump-style authoritarianism largely embraces big government and collectively blames immigrants, Muslims and others for America’s problems." (mystatesman.com)

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[–]Aenima1 14ポイント15ポイント  (14子コメント)

Trump blames our government and its dealings with other governments for our problems.

[–]nimsohr/actuallibertarian 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

And his solution is more government.

[–]Aenima1 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

Is it? His solution is HIM dealing with other governments. Bernie and Hillary want more government. Not sure where you made the disconnect.

[–]nimsohr/actuallibertarian 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

His just released idea to pay for the wall is to abuse anti-terrorism laws to illegally stop lawful money transfers, dramatically increasing the power of the federal government in private business matters, so that he can illegally coerce a sovereign state into paying for a big government expenditure that recreates the Berlin Wall along our border.

That's example one.

Does that sound like small government solutions to you?

[–]Aenima1 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (9子コメント)

"T]he United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards—of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]."

No, that doesn't sound like big government to me. Warhawk Hillary and "FREEBIE" Sanders ARE big government.

[–]nimsohr/actuallibertarian 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

Literally all of those things are an expansion of government. The first item is civil forfeiture on a grand scale. Tariffs are a massive government interference in free trade, a huge expansion of taxation.

That's exactly big government.

[–]Libertarian-PartyLive Free or Die Trying -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

This seems more like imposing sanctions, as well as punishing businesses for ILLEGAL activity. That's like saying seizing funds for a corporation involved in fraud is civil forfeiture: it isn't.

Civil forfeiture is when assets or money is taken from a person when the assets themselves are irrelevant to the charges. OR when assets or funds are taken from a person WITHOUT pressing charges.

examples: Taking someone's cars and money stash after a drug raid, stealing the money in someone's car after a routine traffic stop, seizing assets from someone accused of domestic violence.

NOT civil forfeiture: Taking money back from a bank robber, shutting down companies/fining them for fraud/financial illegal activity, embezzlement repatriation.

[–]nimsohr/actuallibertarian 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Sanctions on people, who have not been tried for any illegal activity, but will now be prohibited from sending money to their families.

[–]Libertarian-PartyLive Free or Die Trying 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Starting on “day 1,” Trump writes, he would issue a warning to Mexico that unless it pays his desired amount, he will promulgate a new federal provision that would lead to a sweeping confiscation of funds sent by Mexicans in the United States who lack documentation of their “lawful presence.”

"lawful presence"

well there you go. Illegals. This doesn't count for American citizens sending money abroad. It's stopping illegals from money transfers.

[–]nimsohr/actuallibertarian 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have they been tried and convicted in a court of law and the money ordered seized as a penalty for a crime?

[–]IPredictAReddit 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This seems more like imposing sanctions, as well as punishing businesses for ILLEGAL activity

And both of these involve government interfering with individual's rights to contract with each other.

Oh, and it isn't businesses engaging in to-be-impounded remittances - that's money earned by a person being sent to his/her family that's being stolen.

[–]Libertarian-PartyLive Free or Die Trying 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Starting on “day 1,” Trump writes, he would issue a warning to Mexico that unless it pays his desired amount, he will promulgate a new federal provision that would lead to a sweeping confiscation of funds sent by Mexicans in the United States who lack documentation of their “lawful presence.”

"lawful presence"

well there you go. Illegals. This doesn't count for American citizens sending money abroad. It's stopping illegals from money transfers.

And to answer your question, you are right, but it will be both businesses AND individuals affected under this. But only to illegals trying to send money. They're not allowed to be here though, so they ARE breaking the law.

[–]IPredictAReddit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, that doesn't sound like big government to me.

Wait, impounding money being sent from one person to another doesn't sound like big government to you? Literally sticking your hand into a money transfer doesn't raise any flags for you?

And charging ridiculous admission to the US, as if it were some sort of privately-owned Disneyland?

Are you effing kidding?

[–]nimsohr/actuallibertarian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/user_history_bot Aenima1

[–]momsbasement420 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

This sub has pretty much coincided with the rest of the media on Trump. It's a shame we're making the same excuses for his popularity, when it's us who should know more than anyone that this is just what happens when people feel shunned after a large amount of time. Any big name outsider is gonna have a shot when the economy sucks and the government doesn't care about you

[–]BobarhinoNon-attorney Non-paid Spokesperson 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trump is politically expedient in that respect. He knows Republicans and Democrats really all love big government, so his solution is to attack the people running government as incompetent. He isn't wrong, but his solution is to replace like with like. That's no solution. And that's what the Republicans and Democrats can't take their blinders off to see, that it isn't the person in the position of power that's corrupt; it's the position of power itself that corrupts.

[–]savois-faire 21ポイント22ポイント  (12子コメント)

Many conservatives have spent the last year pulling their hair out trying to figure out why so many Republican voters support Donald Trump.

It's because authoritarianism loving, big government supporting, collectivist thinking, reactionary asshats make up quite a chunk of the GOPs base, as it turns out. Who could have possibly seen such a thing coming...?

[–]revoman 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's because authoritarianism loving, big government supporting, collectivist thinking, reactionary asshats make up quite a chunk of the American public...

FTFY

[–]savois-faire 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sure, but I was speaking directly in reference to the conservatives pulling their hair out trying to figure out why so many Republican votes support Donald Trump, as mentioned in the quote. They are confused by the number of Republican voters supporting Donald Trump, because they erroneously think Republican voters are all small government conservatives, when quite a big chunk of them are not, as it turns out.

[–]revoman 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Many "demorcrats" are also rabid for him. He's a cult of personality like Obama. And look what the dems did for him.

[–]wthreye 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

True. But the rabid Blue Team members that fit that description aren't likely to switch.

[–]revoman 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Switch to?? What am I missing? Everyone on Reddit seems to think that the US voter is somewhat educated and interested in politics. THAT IS NOT THE CASE AT ALL!! Most people don't care to educate themselves and are fine with just listening to the mass media to make up their minds for them. Turn out hasn't been above 60% for 40 years in the US.

Hell, my wife has zero interest but will RAIL against Trump without having any other info than what the news and the Internet tells her about him. She was deathly afraid of Rand Paul even to be a senator. She is very typical

[–]wthreye 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Apparently you are missing is that there are hard core supporters on both sides that, regardless of the failings of their candidate, will continue to vote for them so they can 'stick it' to the other team. And as far as your comment about the lack of an informed and engaged electorate--you are preaching to the choir. Setting aside Trump, Rand isn't his daddy, unfortunately. He is a bit too 'packaged' for me.

[–]revoman 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

No I didn't miss anything. Most of the hardcore supporters have no idea what they are supporting. Agreed, Rand is a little too chummy with the reps, BUT he was the best we had this year... Sadly.

[–]wthreye 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would venture a majority of the electorate doesn't know. Hence, the 'same 'ol same 'ol'. I suppose you are right about Rand irt to the Pub ticket.

[–]nixfuminarchist 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess you don't know that a huge % of Trumps supporters are actually Democrats who HAVE switched.

[–]wthreye 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yuuuuge %. )

But not the rabidly partisan ones. You know, the ones who voted for Obama twice.

[–]veritasserum 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

All true, but those people pale into insignificance when compared to the liberals who are 1000x worse on pretty much every issue.

[–]Libertarian-PartyLive Free or Die Trying 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Okay I'll bite: Can anyone tell me where Trump:

1) blames immigrants, and tell me how he

2) embraces big government (with the exception of Military and National Security)?

3) Can anyone refute that Islam as a political/religious power DOES collectively wish to slowly push sharia law on the countries where they have enough power?

[–]-INFOWARS- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

OK I support Trump but...

1) He doesn't blame immigrants but he put a lot of emphasis on illegal immigration (Illegal, not legal) that causes social issues.

2) Big Government in terms of tarrifs etc... but for social issues, such as Marijuana + Gay marriage, he wants to leave to the states

3) People's fear of being deemed an Islamophobe stops any meaningful discussion of Islam.

[–]dluminousPersonal Responsibility - assume no one will help you 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can anyone refute that Islam as a political/religious power DOES collectively wish to slowly push sharia law on the countries where they have enough power?

You're joking on this point, right? You do understand it's an extremely small minority (but vocal) of Muslims who actually propagate this.

[–]Libertarian-PartyLive Free or Die Trying 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/kO8uyDK.jpg

what I mean is, as the portion of muslims in a country grows larger, the wish to enforce cultural and religious norms such as Sha'ria become more present. As this extends from a regional level to a national level, laws will change. Think of Melbeek in Brussels, as they have a candidate for Mayor that is running on a position of promoting Sharia law in the city.

[–]veritasserum 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't think any sane person has ever confused Trump as a libertarian.

The tragedy of this election cycle is that - as lousy, really lousy, as that bloviating blowhard is - he's better than anything oozing out from the Democrat party. There isn't a single Democrat actually running or even in discussion I'd ever vote for.

[–]LavenderGumes 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'd vote for Bernie before Trump based on his stance on mass surveillance, open Internet policy, and reluctance to use the military.

I'm actually voting third party, but I'd definitely go Bernie before Trump.

[–]veritasserum 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bernie is a repeatedly self-admitted collectivist of the worst stripe. No one adherent to libertarian principles could ever vote for him.

[–]The_Dok 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Donald confused Bernie's policies for his own.

[–]-Shank- 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trump is hardly even an adherent to classic Conservatism, either. However, he is appealing to what a large chunk of the GOP voters believe and pulling in the young voter like no other right wing candidate has in decades. His downfall is just how polarizing he is, while many love him a considerable amount will also be spite voting against him and many right wing voters won't show up for him in the general election.

[–]BuddhistSCVote Gary Johnson 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

collectively blames immigrants, Muslims and others for America’s problems."

Isn't this not true at all? I thought he mostly blames lobbying and corporate cronyism.

[–]BoTuLoXfascist 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just the fact that it keeps repeating the same old narrative that Trump has a problem with immigrants and not just illegals, makes it not true, or at best, partially dishonest.

[–]mgbkurtzparanoid randroid 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

As a pro-Trump libertarian, it's not a policy thing but rather style. I disagree with Trump on most policies, but it's the establishment I'm voting against. Unlike Ron Paul, Trump has a path to the presidency.

[–]-INFOWARS- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same.

[–]The_Dok 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

And that path would lead to the exact opposite of liberty. Congratulations.

[–]mgbkurtzparanoid randroid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Liberty has been dead for about 100 years.

[–]ninjaluvrlibertarian party -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Room Paul style libertarianism want harsh on state or local government.

[–]Koskap -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Downvoted, he said illegal immigrants, not immigrants. One is racist, the other is not.

I'm no fan of a trump presidency, but his campaign has been consistently misrepresented by the media.

[–]CompulsiveMinmaxing -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't recall Trump blaming immigrants for anything.

Oh, they meant illegal immigrants. But they of course didn't say that out of fear of being accurate.