36
37

AllPlea to the community to stop generalizing (self.smashbros)

SC_Red が 投稿

I know this is a touchy subject right now with the summit voting ending recently but I had to get my thoughts out. As an initial disclaimer I am primarily Smash 4 player that watches both games. I have dumped all of my votes to Lucky because I think he's an amazing player and deserves another chance at this.

As a Smash 4 player it's discouraging the hear that we have been "sabotaging" or "invading" summit. I do understand that most of ESAM's votes have been coming from us but it's unfair to say that we're trying to ruin the experience for everyone else. We love watching Melee too and some of us do think it's pretty cool to have one of our own representatives there to fight. Whatever your beef is with ESAM's own personality is not on our community, we just want to watch some sick ass Melee.

But as part of this community it's equally unfair for Smash 4 players to out the Melee community as toxic. You have to understand that it's frustrating to have so many of their icons be eliminated because our community wanted want of our own there. While having them generalize us is not OK, it's not cool to go eye to eye.

Thanks for letting me get my thoughts out. Have a good day.

全 43 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]LuxShadow1 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can make as many posts about this as you want, but we always have new people who are joining the community, who will just jump on the bandwagon of a popular opinion/following just so they seem 'Cool'. People are always so divisive when it comes to Smash games as well, their is no equilibrium to enjoying multiple smash games it seems, sigh...

[–]SC_Red[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think one of the best ways we have make our scene more welcoming is by making our individual games look welcoming. You're right there will always be people who are divisive about the games but the more we try to understand each other (like what I am trying to accomplish with this post) the more inclusive we can be to newcomers of any game.

[–]TheEternalCowboy 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think it's hilarious that people are saying "Smash 4 ruined our summit with ESAM so we'll ruin their summit with MANG0!"

I think a lot of the Smash 4 community watches both and would love Mang0 at any sort of summit, even if he were to get bopped.

[–]Aerolyze 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

In theory that sounds great but what happens if it's down to Mang0 vs ranai? don't be ignorant.

[–]awfulmemory [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would go for Mang0 lol. Ranai plays lame as shit. I would vote for Mang0 over most Sm4sh players because it would be really entertaining.

[–]blank92 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't speak for the whole sm4sh community, but honestly I'd be happy either way. Then again, what do I know? I was also hoping ESAM would get in just because of the shitstorm it'd cause, lol.

[–]theDangGang -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the ONLY logic I see in the case against ESAM. He qualified and got enough votes to get in, and 100% deserves it based on the way popularity contest at hand is set up. Anyone hating on ESAM just for wanting to go, even though it's not his main game, is moronic.

[–]Stirringbrush8 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

That thread made me finally realize that a majority of this sub is just children. Seriously, where is the self-awareness? People talking about sabotaging an event for "revenge"? Come on that is juvenile.

[–]Show me your movesLeavesCat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Remember what you were like when you were 14/15 years old, and then remember that a lot of people are that age.

[–]halfar 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ultimately, the argument that ESAM has no right to participate is bunk, unless someone's seriously going to attempt to make that ridiculous argument.

He is qualified, and people do want him there. Not letting him in would be an even bigger slap in the face to the community, no? I mean, I personally think it'd be great if the community followed my every whim, but that'd be bad for the community, since my ideas are terrible.

We need more fire emblem representation. My opinions aren't the most popular. There's no reason for me to get salty about that, y'know? Give ESAM a chance. If he does better than expected, cool. If he busters out, that also sounds like a fun story.

[–]Nuevepeanutbutter1236 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

As you put an "all" flair on this post YOU HYPOCRITE

[–]SC_Red[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Your character sucks fite me

[–]Finally eatin' grab a platetruedragonemperor 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

Your character sucks

lose 500 frames of lag then you can start talking tough monado boy

[–]WHAT THE FUCK'S A SONICwireware 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fight! Fight! Fight!

...

I mean if he had less startup lag that is.

[–]SC_Red[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Shit that was low.

[–]Finally eatin' grab a platetruedragonemperor 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

low

yeah, you'd know low ...

D rank

[–]SC_Red[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

w-w-w-we're top of mid! ZeRo said so!

[–]blank92 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He would know, he's a Shulk main after all!

[–]thelightpokemon 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually they wouldn't. Have you seen those endlag frame counts?

[–]dbzeenx -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

PJSalt

[–]SeaSquirrel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think solo melee people realized just how many smash 4 players watch and care about top level melee until now

[–]InfinityCollision 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you want to watch some awesome Melee, find an awesome Melee player that you enjoy and vote them in. Still don't know who to vote for? You're not obligated to vote, and this is a fantastic opportunity to watch some of the best players the Melee scene has to offer.

Voting in /u/imESAM is going to 1) unnecessarily stir up shit between the two communities and 2) lower the overall quality of the event. He's not up to the standard of the event and voting him in blocks out better players, end of story. This was a bad move, and there's enough "for the lulz" votes in the mix (especially after the vote sniping) to set things to a boil. Good intentions or no, I don't think anyone except maybe the trolls and ESAM himself (who is by his own admission trolling as well) will be happy with the end result. If anything the best move he could make at this point is probably to recuse himself from the event.

If he'd shown focus and improvement in Melee over the past year or so and not handled the voting process as he did then it'd be a different story, but nobody's going to buy any "hey guys I care about Melee now" story he spins after the way he's acted the past few weeks.

[–]SoulOfSelesnya 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a kid who's never played Smash but follows the scene, here are my thoughts:

  • I disliked ESAM from what he wrote in his long post, don't know him outside of that but he seems pretty good, just not as good as others in the voting.

  • I think voting in ESAM was just a matter of time, I would have preferred Wobbles over him and hope Javi and Ice make it in, it seems like ESAM does have good competition to play with but is making excuses for more votes

  • I feel like the Sm4sh community is overgeneralized as a group of casuals, and the Melee community is overgeneralized as a bunch of jerks

  • As an outsider, the whole Smash community is a little weird because on the one hand, there's the helpful and nice side, on the other hand, there's the meme side and the standard Reddit QQ subsection.

Not sure if anyone cares (probably not) but wanted to get my thoughts out nonetheless.

[–]afrikaharold 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

fuck esam

[–]UUtch 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The voting didn't end, 4 more players still have to be decided.

[–]feplus -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

But you're generalizing. You are speaking to "the community" and acting as if "the community" believes ESAM's inclusion was all about sabotage or invasion, whatever that means.

Some people voted ESAM as a middle finger to the Melee scene. Most who voted ESAM did so either because of Smash 4 loyalty or to get lessons from him.

There were many motivations but none of them involved "watching some sick as Melee." ESAM is outclassed and may not win a single game over the weekend.

[–]SC_Red[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I never said the community believes that. As you said "Some people voted ESAM as a middle finger to the Melee scene" that's what I mean by "sabotage." I tried to be careful with wording and tried not to generalize whilst complaining about generalization but I can understand why you're confused.

I can't really say anything to disprove you in terms of motivation, but I think its unfair to have the Smash 4 community be looked as just people who just want to get back at the Melee scene. Either way thanks for your thoughts.

[–]feplus 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I understood what you meant by sabotage, not invasion. I don't think anyone believes Smash 4 fans are trying to usurp SS out of envy or something.

If you write an open letter to the Melee community and only provide one explanation for Melee fans' frustration (that Smash 4 fans are trying to "ruin the experience," which most don't believe), it's easy to read that as a negative generalization.

[–]SC_Red[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I did address that most of Melee fans' frustration stems from "many of their icons be(ing) eliminated because our community wanted want of our own there." Which was a plea for the Smash 4 community to not generalize Melee and perhaps create some sort of understanding.

My perspective of the situation right now is that there have been a lot of people who have been looking down at the Smash 4 community and there does seems to be a sense of us vs them mentality. For example back at the other thread there was a lot of backlash for Alpharad for pooling his votes for ESAM and a comment that was gilded calling us out for "trolling the melee community."

I know that the latter was probably a joke and most of the comments there were probably just half-hearted attempts at expressing frustration but it compelled me to make this to at least clear the air. I really hope that this isn't taken as a negative generalization.

edit: crappy grammar

[–]feplus 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I really hope that this isn't taken as a negative generalization.

This thread's been upvoted so maybe it's not being taken as a negative generalization and I was worried for nothing. Just important to emphasize that most Melee fans don't think ESAM was voted in primarily because of sabotage or trolling.

One last thing I'll say is that an "us vs them mentality" between Melee and Smash 4 is unavoidable. I'm not sure it's a bad thing either. The games are different, the demographics are different, their histories and narratives are different. There will always be competition over which game should be the premiere Smash. ESAM drama is one example of many to come, such as CEO (where S4 will probably get the better time slot because of entrants, leading to more drama).

I think it would be best if these communities embraced their differences and focused on being respectful rather than forcing a nonsensical OneUnit attitude.

[–]SC_Red[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I completely agree. OneUnit was a futile attempt at trying to force 2 communities that have almost nothing in common to get along. Right now the games are disjointed but the relationship isn't perfect. I would like to see a good level of respect from both communities. The animosity can continue but I think we can work on it.

[–]Stirringbrush8 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

A lot of unfounded assumptions in there.

[–]feplus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are no unfounded assumptions. Most of ESAM's fanbase comes from Smash 4 and ESAM did offer free tutorials for those who voted for him. It is reasonable to assume these were the primary motivations for his votes.

[–]Ikanan_xiii 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Preach Brother.

[–]Kaeysa -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

but it's unfair to say that we're trying to ruin the experience for everyone else

It's an event that's entirely about top-level melee. I realize that 1/16 players being outclassed won't ruin the entire event, but there's no getting around that it degrades the quality of the competition compared to what it would be if someone else was there in his place. So "ruin" might be a strong word, but sm4sh fans are intentionally voting in a player who's probably going to get bodied. I'm not sure why it's surprising that this angers people.

With that said, I'd rather blame BTS over the sm4sh community. Even though I'm not happy with ESAM or the people voting him in, they are playing by the rules that BTS set up. This whole voting process is intentionally constructed to be a divisive shit-show that drags on and on. If there's going to be a fan vote, I'd rather it be for just 1 or 2 spots and just get it over with ASAP.

[–]bimbo74 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nice coverup post. Now Melee will never catch on to the impending Smash 4 takeover. Hehehe.

[–]Stevenjgamble [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

L0L. You think ill give up my techskill for sm4sh?

[–]Stevenjgamble [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But you also generalized the smash 4 community in this post. I'm willing to bet the majority of people voting for esam couldn't give a shit about the melee scene, and will most likely not watch smash summit 2.

Typical smash 4 fans, always making pleas and shit.

[–]SC_Red[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would take you up on that bet. But unless we can actually verify it I suggest you go back to r/smashcirclejerk