I think we've seen this before, its from the website WhoIs information...
Registrant Name: Wallace Fischer
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 458 Cross Rd
Registrant City: Belpre
Registrant State/Province: Ohio
Registrant Postal Code: 45714
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.7404077428
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: Email Masking Image@momentumlabs.com Registry Admin ID: Not Available From Registry
----------------------------------------
if you look at that address on google maps, its a residential property in the middle of nowhere
@Joseph @Creators
Go to; http://www.sos.state.oh.us/ Go to Business -> Business search type in Momentum labs. None found.
Feel free to point out where I can find: Momentum Labs LLC based in Athens, Ohio.....
My conclusion, You lied during the campaign. It could of course be you're in a different place in the US for practical reasons. Not being a company in the US would of course be an unacceptable change. We made a deal with "Momentum Labs LLC in Athens Ohio".
If this is not a scam, why not post a change of address, new phone number? So we can all send you a card.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, so feel free to show me where you have registered Momentun Labs LLC. In the US. Basic information such as business address, phone number registration with the state etc. should not be an issue.
@Koen Well the last project schedule update (August 11) stated:
"9) no change on production schedule, still targeting December"
But then again that same update stated:
"8) Planning for a big update on Website and FB"
So basically all the updates (including the last one) are full of promises and commitments. You can chose yourself which you are still willing to believe.
@Chris A chapter 7 would require a US based company to begin with, such as the mythical Momentum Labs LLC. Of which the team still has to provide us details about.
Thanks @Joseph for your reasonable and intelligent contribution. It was a pleasant relief in this board. Oh, and don't mind the mob with the pitch forks.
@joseph
Don't come here and preach to us about how we should have known the risks. No shit, we all knew the risks. We "risked" based on the information given by the project creator that turned out to be total bullshit. Actual investors of companies get to oversee shit getting done and get actual information for their money. We don't, and we own jack shit in the company. We wanted truth and updates (and an eventual product), what we got was lies (before campaign was even funded), possible truth/untruth, and little to no information.
@Joseph Aparently you have trouble reading, I specifically stated: " I don't think anyone here denies there was a risk." So don't come up with the casino analogy which is not relevant in this case because at a casino the risk you take is actually clear and represented truthfully.
Also the Momentum team would do well showing some movies of this mystical prototype rather than pictures of PCBs.
It is not simple to provide "proof" that a company never existed, because it wasn't there if left no trace. A company that does not provide any contact details smells suspicious and in normal business and repeated remarks from not just me have gone totally ignored. Wich once again raises suspicion.
Searching business registries chamber of commerce show no trace of a Momentum labs LLC in Athens Ohio. feel free to do that research again yourself.
If Momentum labs is truth full they can shut this argument down by providing an address and phone number etc. Them consistently ignoring these requests makes them look like a scam.
@Maarten I believe too many people read too much into the site as a "we're done we just need to build them", instead of reading it as it was and that's a "we have a prototype we like, but it still needs work and refinement we also need to find people to produce these parts for us". Actual direct quote from the campaign "Our current prototypes have some limitations due, in large part, to cost of custom tooling.
Custom Curved Battery - We have engineering samples of our battery. It is a little larger than we will use. To receive actual batteries we need to pay development charges and place a PO for a large volume of batteries.
Touch Interface - Our development platform uses a touch grid similar in size to our final product which has allowed development of our user interface. The prototype uses large touch sensors for demonstration of functionality but not fine resolution detection of keys. The actual touch sensor that will be used requires and tooling charge for production of sample parts. These sample touch sensors must be ‘tuned’ to the production materials for the lens.
PCB Design - We have developed several custom pcb’s over the course of this design to test various features. Our current development platform and prototype makes use of several different manufacturers evaluation boards plus some custom circuitry. The final Moment design will have a flex pcb. We do all pcb design in-house, however, this pcb cannot be completed without final design of our touch sensor. Additionally, this pcb will have one die bonded part and several fine pitch BGA IC’s that make prototyping a few boards very expensive." This tells you that it wasn't quite ready, and that setbacks were a serious possibility. So we gambled and lost just like at a casino. You don't lose and then ask the pit boss for your money back; you take your losses and go home. Also you failed to provide proof that it was never in Athens Ohio, just that they had a site in HK. Provide hard evidence that none of these people exist or that they don't actually own an EIN for their LLC with the IRS. And yet while I agree they seem to have overestimated their own abilities it doesn't change the fact that you nor I nor anyone else are getting our money back from Momentum and that's all their is to it. It's a bitter pill to swallow, and again if you're not willing to risk swallowing it don't take the risk.
@Joseph I don't think anyone here denies there was a risk. I think most people who want a refund (like me) want it because it it obvious that the creators misrepresented the status of their product during the campaign (realistically they arre still not where they claimed to be during the campaign) and of who they were, there is no Momentum Labs LLC in Athens Ohio, and there never was.
These do not look like some setbacks these have all the hallmarks of huge issues because the team grossly overestimated their own ability. They should have cut their losses and refunded a long time ago.
It looks like a skill Fischer excels at is te spin an idea as a prototype or huge cock-ups as some set-backs.
@Creator thank you for the update. And while it stinks to hear about the setbacks, I understand that they happen because unfortunately life doesn't always work out the way we plan. Yet, I knew this was a possibility when I chose to back the project, because Kickstarter is a site where entrepreneurs as for money to produce their product, not a shopping site, and to all those complaining about wanting your money back suck it up buttercup you all knew this as well. It's called risk and anytime you make an investment be it on Kickstarter or in the stock market you assume the risk of total loss of your investment, it's just the way the business world works. Hopefully sometime the device will be finished and I'll finally receive it, but as for now I'm just writing it off as a failed investment venture and wish Momentum Labs all the best of luck in finishing the product.
I'm afraid I have little sympathy for creators who overhype themselves, bullshit about their competence and state of product, lie to and ignore their backers, then whine when they discover how the business world really works and admit they've spent all our money.
Having read the latest update, I actually feel for them if it's true what we have been told. Yes it's our money, but it must be soul destroying for them to have experienced setback after setback!! I know there are many that probably won't agree, but I would hate to be in their shoes with this.
It is good to hear again from the creator but wenn i backed this watch it was all new and now it is not anymore, i really hope that the watch is coming whenever that is, if creator gives more updates people are understanding all the problems, i still think money is gone andere we never going to see this, if i ever get the watch i have a Nice place for it next to my Fusion Garage Joojoo and Grid10 tablets ;-)
The creators stopped engaging when people were perfectly reasonable.
You don't fulfil your obligations to backers and lie to them, how do you expect backers to respond?
There is no one who wants the project to succeed more than the backers. the backers who overfunded the project by 450%, the backers who provided half a million dollars to team that made out that they'd done all this before, that the technology was already there, that there was a ready prototype just waiting to be productionised, the team that went missing whenever anyone asked something as simple as 'when might my watch be ready?'
The creator has systematically lied, ignored and lied again to the backers.
@all if you look through the comments left by a lot of vocal backers in this campaign they have been nothing but hostile towards the creators, even when they did leave comments the amount of negativity was so over the top. No wonder they stopped leaving comments, whether right or wrong of them.
No one was mad about the fact that it takes long (although it takes extremely long before there is any new progress). The lack of communication is what p*sses everyone off, including yours truly...
To put it in perspective: I have been waiting on the Dash for over 1,5 years AFTER the estimated delivery date but because they kept us informed there was no issue.
I do not want a refund and this is not a scam - I want the product.
I'm a retired embedded software engineer that had worked in aerospace and commercial companies. Your development story is one I've lived through several times. That is how it gets done. It's never easy. When I contributed to this project, I knew how hard it was going to be and thought to myself, "If they can pull this off, this will be great." I also it would take way longer than planned - it always does. So, make wise choices, work long hours and it will get done.
I would like to get money back because I thing that this comany has plenty of time to realize this project. Overall everything looks little bit unprofessional because of that I will be appreciated if someone can tell me where and how I can get money back. If someone has any experiance about that, please give me information to person who is related to this concern.
"Over the past year we have spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars in development. We have developed prototype after prototype and we finally have the product we want. Now we need help from Kickstarter backers to get the Moment Smartwatch off our test bench and on your wrist."
By the way: this was my luck I guess, it's not to say they will refund all the time. But I still wish everyone good luck and hopefully the CC companies go after these @ssh*les!!!
Whoohooo... Justice!!! I contacted my CC company about this scam and they refunded my money! (backed 2 of these 'smartwatches' so I was in for $200,-)
In holland there seems to be some kind of rule which states that you have to contact the CC company if they don't deliver after payment within 120 days. Of course this wasn't the case but luckily I found a claim in update #20 which stated they would begin delivery Early december 2015 (which is within 3 months until now) and this luckily was enough to convince them. Before that I already sent them all the info and screendumps so it was probably also my perseverance or something, but still... Good times!
Good luck to you and hopefully you'll get the same result!
And a big fat middle finger to the MF's of Momentum Labs! I hope you get what you deserve!
Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
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Show older commentsAaditya 'AJ' Shah about 2 hours ago
Any updates? You guys took our money and have not been the least bit transparent.
Chris T about 16 hours ago
I think we've seen this before, its from the website WhoIs information...
Registrant Name: Wallace Fischer
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 458 Cross Rd
Registrant City: Belpre
Registrant State/Province: Ohio
Registrant Postal Code: 45714
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.7404077428
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: Email Masking Image@momentumlabs.com
Registry Admin ID: Not Available From Registry
----------------------------------------
if you look at that address on google maps, its a residential property in the middle of nowhere
Maarten Kalff 4 days ago
@Joseph @Creators
Go to; http://www.sos.state.oh.us/ Go to Business -> Business search type in Momentum labs. None found.
Feel free to point out where I can find: Momentum Labs LLC based in Athens, Ohio.....
My conclusion, You lied during the campaign. It could of course be you're in a different place in the US for practical reasons. Not being a company in the US would of course be an unacceptable change. We made a deal with "Momentum Labs LLC in Athens Ohio".
If this is not a scam, why not post a change of address, new phone number? So we can all send you a card.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, so feel free to show me where you have registered Momentun Labs LLC. In the US. Basic information such as business address, phone number registration with the state etc. should not be an issue.
Koen Schuit 5 days ago
I go for option C :)
Maarten Kalff 5 days ago
@Koen Well the last project schedule update (August 11) stated:
"9) no change on production schedule, still targeting December"
But then again that same update stated:
"8) Planning for a big update on Website and FB"
So basically all the updates (including the last one) are full of promises and commitments. You can chose yourself which you are still willing to believe.
Koen Schuit 6 days ago
When was this shipped? Can someone tell me the date? I don't have a watch...
Soltyk on March 23
Typo? ;)
MegaBueno on March 22
Can't believe I feel for this project! Unbelievable.
Maarten Kalff on March 21
@Chris A chapter 7 would require a US based company to begin with, such as the mythical Momentum Labs LLC. Of which the team still has to provide us details about.
Chris Whitehead on March 20
Having full understanding of all terms and policies, just hoping to see the product before a chapter 7.
Tumor on March 18
@Koen
I don't like people preaching to me how I should think. So F anyone who says I can't be annoyed or frustrated with Momentum Labs and this campaign.
Koen Schuit on March 18
Please keep in mind that we are frustrated with Momentum Labs, not each other (as far as I know)
Soltyk on March 18
Thanks @Joseph for your reasonable and intelligent contribution. It was a pleasant relief in this board. Oh, and don't mind the mob with the pitch forks.
Tumor on March 17
@joseph
Don't come here and preach to us about how we should have known the risks. No shit, we all knew the risks. We "risked" based on the information given by the project creator that turned out to be total bullshit. Actual investors of companies get to oversee shit getting done and get actual information for their money. We don't, and we own jack shit in the company. We wanted truth and updates (and an eventual product), what we got was lies (before campaign was even funded), possible truth/untruth, and little to no information.
J on March 17
What a load of bollocks about risk.
Momentum can give no indication whatsoever of when they can deliver, because they have no clue what they are doing.
However, they still manage to keep a pre-order page on their website of a rendered product so that they can con even more people.
https://moment-smartwatch-worlds-first-wrap-around-smart-w.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders
Maarten Kalff on March 17
@Joseph Aparently you have trouble reading, I specifically stated: " I don't think anyone here denies there was a risk." So don't come up with the casino analogy which is not relevant in this case because at a casino the risk you take is actually clear and represented truthfully.
Also the Momentum team would do well showing some movies of this mystical prototype rather than pictures of PCBs.
It is not simple to provide "proof" that a company never existed, because it wasn't there if left no trace. A company that does not provide any contact details smells suspicious and in normal business and repeated remarks from not just me have gone totally ignored. Wich once again raises suspicion.
Searching business registries chamber of commerce show no trace of a Momentum labs LLC in Athens Ohio. feel free to do that research again yourself.
If Momentum labs is truth full they can shut this argument down by providing an address and phone number etc. Them consistently ignoring these requests makes them look like a scam.
Joseph Sutton on March 16
@Maarten I believe too many people read too much into the site as a "we're done we just need to build them", instead of reading it as it was and that's a "we have a prototype we like, but it still needs work and refinement we also need to find people to produce these parts for us". Actual direct quote from the campaign "Our current prototypes have some limitations due, in large part, to cost of custom tooling.
Custom Curved Battery - We have engineering samples of our battery. It is a little larger than we will use. To receive actual batteries we need to pay development charges and place a PO for a large volume of batteries.
Touch Interface - Our development platform uses a touch grid similar in size to our final product which has allowed development of our user interface. The prototype uses large touch sensors for demonstration of functionality but not fine resolution detection of keys. The actual touch sensor that will be used requires and tooling charge for production of sample parts. These sample touch sensors must be ‘tuned’ to the production materials for the lens.
PCB Design - We have developed several custom pcb’s over the course of this design to test various features. Our current development platform and prototype makes use of several different manufacturers evaluation boards plus some custom circuitry. The final Moment design will have a flex pcb. We do all pcb design in-house, however, this pcb cannot be completed without final design of our touch sensor. Additionally, this pcb will have one die bonded part and several fine pitch BGA IC’s that make prototyping a few boards very expensive." This tells you that it wasn't quite ready, and that setbacks were a serious possibility. So we gambled and lost just like at a casino. You don't lose and then ask the pit boss for your money back; you take your losses and go home. Also you failed to provide proof that it was never in Athens Ohio, just that they had a site in HK. Provide hard evidence that none of these people exist or that they don't actually own an EIN for their LLC with the IRS. And yet while I agree they seem to have overestimated their own abilities it doesn't change the fact that you nor I nor anyone else are getting our money back from Momentum and that's all their is to it. It's a bitter pill to swallow, and again if you're not willing to risk swallowing it don't take the risk.
Glen German on March 16
@Maarten "Founded in HK"
Maarten Kalff on March 16
Yet another place where these guys are pretending they have a product: http://www.whub.io/startups/momentumlabs
Maarten Kalff on March 16
@Joseph I don't think anyone here denies there was a risk. I think most people who want a refund (like me) want it because it it obvious that the creators misrepresented the status of their product during the campaign (realistically they arre still not where they claimed to be during the campaign) and of who they were, there is no Momentum Labs LLC in Athens Ohio, and there never was.
These do not look like some setbacks these have all the hallmarks of huge issues because the team grossly overestimated their own ability. They should have cut their losses and refunded a long time ago.
It looks like a skill Fischer excels at is te spin an idea as a prototype or huge cock-ups as some set-backs.
Joseph Sutton on March 16
@Creator thank you for the update. And while it stinks to hear about the setbacks, I understand that they happen because unfortunately life doesn't always work out the way we plan. Yet, I knew this was a possibility when I chose to back the project, because Kickstarter is a site where entrepreneurs as for money to produce their product, not a shopping site, and to all those complaining about wanting your money back suck it up buttercup you all knew this as well. It's called risk and anytime you make an investment be it on Kickstarter or in the stock market you assume the risk of total loss of your investment, it's just the way the business world works. Hopefully sometime the device will be finished and I'll finally receive it, but as for now I'm just writing it off as a failed investment venture and wish Momentum Labs all the best of luck in finishing the product.
Soltyk on March 16
@Glen @Maarten
"There is a Momentum Labs LLC and a Momentum Labs Holdings LLC in Delaware with about the right incorporation dates"
https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/2xz2by/moment_smartwatch/cp5vo6w
Koen Schuit on March 16
@J: +1
Glen German on March 15
Frauds. Momentum Labs LLC is not a company based out of Athens, OH as initially claimed. It's absolutely disgusting we've been lied to for so long.
J on March 15
I'm afraid I have little sympathy for creators who overhype themselves, bullshit about their competence and state of product, lie to and ignore their backers, then whine when they discover how the business world really works and admit they've spent all our money.
Mark T on March 15
Having read the latest update, I actually feel for them if it's true what we have been told. Yes it's our money, but it must be soul destroying for them to have experienced setback after setback!! I know there are many that probably won't agree, but I would hate to be in their shoes with this.
Ron on March 15
It is good to hear again from the creator but wenn i backed this watch it was all new and now it is not anymore, i really hope that the watch is coming whenever that is, if creator gives more updates people are understanding all the problems, i still think money is gone andere we never going to see this, if i ever get the watch i have a Nice place for it next to my Fusion Garage Joojoo and Grid10 tablets ;-)
J on March 15
The creators stopped engaging when people were perfectly reasonable.
You don't fulfil your obligations to backers and lie to them, how do you expect backers to respond?
There is no one who wants the project to succeed more than the backers. the backers who overfunded the project by 450%, the backers who provided half a million dollars to team that made out that they'd done all this before, that the technology was already there, that there was a ready prototype just waiting to be productionised, the team that went missing whenever anyone asked something as simple as 'when might my watch be ready?'
The creator has systematically lied, ignored and lied again to the backers.
The backers have every right to be pissed off.
Mark T on March 15
@all if you look through the comments left by a lot of vocal backers in this campaign they have been nothing but hostile towards the creators, even when they did leave comments the amount of negativity was so over the top. No wonder they stopped leaving comments, whether right or wrong of them.
J on March 15
Koen, it's not just the lack of communication it's the fact that when they communicate, it's comlpete and utter bullshit:
8) Planning for a big update on Website and FB
9) no change on production schedule, still targeting December
Aug 11 2015....more than 7 months ago.
Koen Schuit on March 15
Besides that, this 'smartwatch' used to be innovatory... way back
Koen Schuit on March 15
No one was mad about the fact that it takes long (although it takes extremely long before there is any new progress). The lack of communication is what p*sses everyone off, including yours truly...
To put it in perspective: I have been waiting on the Dash for over 1,5 years AFTER the estimated delivery date but because they kept us informed there was no issue.
Oliver Bonke on March 15
Kickstarter is a place for entrepreneurs. That comes with risks. I encourage you to develop and deliver your product. I remain committed. Keep at it!
David Sommers on March 15
I do not want a refund and this is not a scam - I want the product.
I'm a retired embedded software engineer that had worked in aerospace and commercial companies. Your development story is one I've lived through several times. That is how it gets done. It's never easy. When I contributed to this project, I knew how hard it was going to be and thought to myself, "If they can pull this off, this will be great." I also it would take way longer than planned - it always does. So, make wise choices, work long hours and it will get done.
Samo Simoncic on March 15
I would like to get money back because I thing that this comany has plenty of time to realize this project. Overall everything looks little bit unprofessional because of that I will be appreciated if someone can tell me where and how I can get money back. If someone has any experiance about that, please give me information to person who is related to this concern.
Marie McHugh on March 14
Good to see comments still going strong here.
Bryan VanAlmkerk on March 13
Charging your credit card with kickstarter can cause your account to be flagged and closed. Just a word of caution
J on March 13
"Over the past year we have spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars in development. We have developed prototype after prototype and we finally have the product we want. Now we need help from Kickstarter backers to get the Moment Smartwatch off our test bench and on your wrist."
Liar, liar, pants on fire....
Tumor on March 11
@Keir
You don't.
Robert Alfaro on March 11
Looks like the creator Fischer logged in today 3/11/16. Hopefully that means an update will be posted shortly. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Keir C Morris on March 10
SO HOW DO YOU GET YOUR MONEY BACK NOW
robin wu on March 10
Long Long waiting
Koen Schuit on March 10
By the way: this was my luck I guess, it's not to say they will refund all the time. But I still wish everyone good luck and hopefully the CC companies go after these @ssh*les!!!
Koen Schuit on March 10
Whoohooo... Justice!!! I contacted my CC company about this scam and they refunded my money! (backed 2 of these 'smartwatches' so I was in for $200,-)
In holland there seems to be some kind of rule which states that you have to contact the CC company if they don't deliver after payment within 120 days. Of course this wasn't the case but luckily I found a claim in update #20 which stated they would begin delivery Early december 2015 (which is within 3 months until now) and this luckily was enough to convince them. Before that I already sent them all the info and screendumps so it was probably also my perseverance or something, but still... Good times!
Good luck to you and hopefully you'll get the same result!
And a big fat middle finger to the MF's of Momentum Labs! I hope you get what you deserve!
Maarten Kalff on March 9
@Eric The company that claimed to do this project is: "Momentum Labs LLC is a startup company based in Athens, Ohio"
Which never existed...... That is very different from some company with a similar in Hong Kong name that may or may not be their design center.
People here thought they were getting in business with an American start-up which never existed.
Eric Kwok on March 9
http://www.hkstp.org/zh-HK/Company-Directory/Company-Details.aspx…
Basher Tjodimedjo on March 8
Guys, I found an interesting article about Coleco Chameleon and their "working" prototype http://motherboard.vice.com/read/crowdfunded-coleco-chameleon-game-console-is-a-mess
Maarten Kalff on March 8
@joseph I'm on the wrong continent......
Joseph Slember on March 7
Anyway we can find these guys.. road trip?
Maarten Kalff on March 2
@Steve the main issue is that Momentum Labs LLC does not exist.