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Video surfaces of Bernie Sanders praising breadlines and food rationing (thelibertarianrepublic.com)

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[–]IronPathologistSowellian Buckleyite 72ポイント73ポイント  (15子コメント)

If your goal is "standard of living just high enough to avoid government overthrow", which is what any collectivist ideology's long-term best-case scenario looks like, then bread lines are a great idea.

[–]lemonparty 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

I just looked up the numbers. 16 trillion GDP today. Let's say half of that goes to government programs existing today, and the rest is split evenly among all citizens as "basic income". That comes out to 26k per year. For everyone. That's essentially 2k per month. For everyone. Also, no one makes money from their job or business, just to be clear. You have to work for free, but at least you get your peanuts from the gov. Also, when you take risks as an entrepreneur, now you're only risking other people's money because your share is guaranteed. When has anything gone wrong with those circumstances?

Once again, at a 100% tax rate for every single person in America, you still only get 26k, accounting for all existing government expenses. Businesses would be insolvent. The nation would simply shut down, and everyone's basic income would still be barely more than a waiter makes while going to college.

[–]IronPathologistSowellian Buckleyite 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

And all you have to deal with is a stagnant economy (see Sweden in the 90's before they CUT BACK TO 45% of the GDP)

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Right, that 16 trillion is taking into account still one of the freer economies in the world that encourages innovation. Obviously production would almost grind to a halt if this were implemented.

[–]IronPathologistSowellian Buckleyite [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Also - those are some interesting numbers. Bernie's 48% of the GDP agenda + $26k basic income = complete command economy. Literally every dollar goes to the government for distribution. They're a bunch of idiots around here. This is actually communism in its totality.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

What are you talking about with Bernie's agenda? 48% already goes to welfare.

As far as a command economy goes, there's a very, very simple question that doesn't even require getting into numbers or philosophy: how do you solve the calculation problem?

[–]IronPathologistSowellian Buckleyite [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I read somewhere that 48% of the GDP was about where his agenda was. We're somewhere in the mid 20's right now.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

We're at 24% to social security (and associated programs, I think) and 24% to healthcare. That's exactly 48% right there. I would consider both to a be a form of redistribution (people should buy their own healthcare) and thus social welfare.

[–]IronPathologistSowellian Buckleyite [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not quite right.

Our spending was about 3.8 Trillion last year (GDP = 16T). Bernie's plan wants to roughly double that, IIRC. Make us further along in the command-economy-vs-free-market scale than Denmark or economic champions Greece, Italy, and Spain(about 40%). Tack on basic income and BOOM! Communist with total command economy.

[–]Shadowr54 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

Is there a link to a full video? I think he might mean in contrast to other poor nations where there is no distribution of goods etc.

[–]Aaron215 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Here ya go.

The whole interview isn't about how wonderful the sandinistas were, it's mostly how the process of paying for the overthrow of democratically elected governments is not a good policy, and how it's their revolution and while it's not great it's better than what they had. Basically just giving his constituents an update on how his trip went and what he learned.

Lots taken out of context, but what can you expect from Stossel, really. For example, the first clip about healthcare is now free: 5:19 is the question, 5:50 is the part of the answer where he says that healthcare is now free, Stossel cuts it there but he follows it with "It is terrible, it is very primitive to what we have.." but that wouldn't fit the narrative as well. "Paradise" lip smack "Yeah sounds great". Thanks guys.

In his defense though, it's ratings. Nobody is gonna watch that whole interview, so why not use it. That's what politics is. Funnily enough, Sanders was giving that interview precisely because he wanted the full context as best as he could give it to be available, and turned down reporters who wanted to just ask single questions for soundbites. That sure panned out well didn't it, lol

Edit: My apologies. Fox misattributed some of those clips as being in the same interview. The breadlines comment I think is in this video, not the same one as the others. Found it. It's at 20 minutes. He's comparing Nicaragua to other third world countries where food isn't distributed and people starve, not saying that food lines are something to strive for (obviously). The whole answer was about how rough a situation the country was in, as was the rest of the third world, but the main emphasis of the press conference was about the US foreign policy's impact on the country.

[–]aged_monkeyBernieBro [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You'll get buried. Context is not as fun as pitchforks.

[–]Bobby_Marks2 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounded to me that is was more of a "It's great that Nicaragua has actual public support systems in place" compared to the nothing at all it had before. During the 80s the country was coming going through it's revolution, with Contra getting funded by the US and FSLN by the Soviet Union - it was a warzone in many ways. Reading over the Wiki article on the revolution, I'm not seeing anything to suggest these were a step backwards. In fact:

Immediately following the fall of the Somoza regime, Nicaragua was largely in ruins. The country had suffered both war and, earlier, natural disaster in the form of the devastating 1972 Nicaragua earthquake. In 1979, approximately 600,000 Nicaraguans were homeless and 150,000 were either refugees or in exile[21] out of a total population of just 2.8 million.[22]

That's like a fifth of the population right there. Bread lines and basic healthcare probably saved a lot of lives. Iran-Contra happened only a couple years later, and government changed hands. I'm not really certain how this paints Sanders in a bad light.

[–]bultard 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that sounds about right. Let's see the video though.

[–]Flavius476 57ポイント58ポイント  (11子コメント)

It's almost as if the term "democratic socialist" doesn't make him any less of a socialist.

Edit I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. The point i'm trying to make is that a socialist is a socialist whether they are Venezualan or a "democratic" socialist from the U.S. It's a shitty ideology no matter what word they put in front of it.

[–]TeaPartyOverlordCruz Conservative 34ポイント35ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know, right?

"That's not a dog turd! That's a chestnut dog turd!"

[–]izzypop112 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

I always call him a socialist and my liberal friends always say "he's no a socialist, he's a democratic socialist." I always ask them what difference does it make? they always make up some BS thing like since he is a democratic socialist he isnt as extreme as a full blown socialist.

[–]JoleneAL [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've done this and gotten stares like I had a unicorn horn growing out of my head.

Then I tell them to go Google or Bing Venezuela.

[–]habba_dasha [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I just tell them that Trump is a democratic fascist.

Edit: a letter

[–]BigAl265 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't know why you're being downvoted? Your comment hasn't been sanctioned by the Central office, otherwise known as the Reddit Bernie brigade. You shall be downvoted accordingly.

[–]MedayekMan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Edit I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted.

Because reddit is a hivemind, not individuals who love their individualism. They want to vote in their own demise.

[–]JoleneAL [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Putting lipstick on a pig ...

[–]JoleneAL [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

/s

I don't eat bread :D

[–]SideTraKd 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

Bernie is simply unelectable nationally, despite what current polls say.

Those polls don't take into account that the people don't really know much about him, or just how extreme he really is. He's the feel good candidate for the young, naive, activist left, and he can't even really compete against the extremely corrupt and dishonest Clinton.

[–]Badgerisbest 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

I feel like a lot of his support would drop if his policies started to get a lot more national attention.

[–]SideTraKd 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree. His most extreme positions aren't getting much attention, yet.

That would change if he won the nomination.

[–]poly_atheist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure this alone would turn off 90% of Americans. And this has nothing to even do with his insane economic policies. It's taken straight from his immigration plan on his website. Makes me sick.

[–]SideTraKd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That kind of thing does play well with the far left...

But not with middle America.

[–]KombatWombat1 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Sadly many friends of mine think evening he utters is gold. He could be the one shooting someone and not lose their votes.

[–]aCreditGuru#NEVERTRUMP 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Did you show them the vox.com calculator which would show what his tax policy would do?

[–]MacBethWay [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All my Bernie Bro friends see that and talk about all the revenue he'd be collecting. Without any regard for where it is coming from and that literally everyone will have to pay more.

[–]KombatWombat1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I did in one instance and he scoffed saying it wasn't true. I asked him for the real numbers so I could be enlightened and he couldn't come up with anything. An average of nearly 10% more of my money going out is just stupid

[–]Kinoxciv -1ポイント0ポイント  (15子コメント)

Full disclosure, I'm a fan of Bernie.

Are the full videos available though? These seem a bit out of context, with some interesting interpretations.

Bernie: They're giving these farmers the opportunity to have land for the first time, you can't deny they're making progress.

Anchor: So Bernie says the Communists make everything fair.

[–]Aaron215 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Here ya go.

Edit: My apologies. Fox misattributed some of those clips as being in the same interview. The breadlines comment I think is in this video, not the same one as the others.

[–]Thrawn011 17ポイント18ポイント  (13子コメント)

I cannot imagine any context that redeems this. Food shortages are the complete fault of socialist governments. Free economies just don't experience chronic shortages because individuals are incentivized to find solutions to these problems. Private charities take care of hungry people very well, and while they may be imperfect here, their failures pale in comparison to the numbers of starving people that have been seen in socialist countries. If food lines are his idea of a good thing, I don't want what he's selling. "The rich get the food and the poor starve to death" HA! Does that explain our obesity problem?