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Did the Buddha really say that?
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FluffDeath is Nirvana. (self.Buddhism)
Peap9326happy が 23時間前 投稿
To be free from desire, is to be free from suffering.
To die, it is the ultimate release, as the mind exists no longer to burden with humanly desires.
And yet, to think that no one will ever be able to experience it.
[–]YesheLama 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 22時間前 (0子コメント)
Birth and death happen upon the mind-stream or consciousness, so it's not that easy.
[–]Sudden_RelapseLaughing 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 20時間前 (0子コメント)
I had the same feelings about Kate Perry. But it was only a fantasy.
[–]krodha 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 22時間前 (0子コメント)
This is called "annihilationism" [uccedavāda].
[–]Rks1157Theravāda / Saddhānusāri 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 19時間前 (5子コメント)
Nirvana/Nibbāna is deathless. What you described is called annihilationism (the mind, soul, self and suffering are destroyed at death) It is one of the two extreme views that the Buddha rejected (the other being eternalism, the mind, soul, self lives on forever). The Dhamma is the middle way between them.
[–]Peap9326happy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 7時間前 (4子コメント)
Why did he reject it, besides it being against the Dhamma?
[–]Rks1157Theravāda / Saddhānusāri 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 7時間前 (3子コメント)
He rejected these views because the each require a soul, inner-core or self which he knew from his own experience does not exist.
[–]Peap9326happy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 7時間前 (2子コメント)
Ok, thanks. I'm sorry.
[–]Rks1157Theravāda / Saddhānusāri 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 6時間前 (1子コメント)
Sorry for what? Did you kick my cat?
[–]Peap9326happy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
No, I just wanted to show my respect, and I didn't know how else to do it. I appreciate your response.
[–]TibetanBookOfNappingscientific 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21時間前* (9子コメント)
It's not.
Nibbana is something to be apprehended by consciousness; death, by definition, is the cessation of consciousness. By saying death is Nibbana is like saying "no head, no headache." Well, fine, but what's the point then? It's a non-starter when it comes to life as it is actually lived, and that is what matters.
This is the Third Truth given in the First Sermon by the Buddha:
Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-ceasing true reality. [Nibbana] is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it. --SN 56.11 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.harv.html)
Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-ceasing true reality. [Nibbana] is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.
--SN 56.11 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.harv.html)
It says nothing about being "free from suffering." This is a common misconception about what Buddhism says.
Nibbana is about living a life in such a way that you do not feel the need to act on your desires. The Buddha still suffered, and the Buddha still had desires (he was visited by Mara up until his death). As we see from the First Truth in the same sutta,
Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is pain: birth is painful, aging is painful, illness is painful, death is painful; sorrow, lamentation, physical pain, unhappiness and distress are painful; union with what is disliked is painful; separation from what is liked is painful; not to get what one wants is painful; in brief, the five bundles of grasping-fuel are painful. --SN 56.11
Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is pain: birth is painful, aging is painful, illness is painful, death is painful; sorrow, lamentation, physical pain, unhappiness and distress are painful; union with what is disliked is painful; separation from what is liked is painful; not to get what one wants is painful; in brief, the five bundles of grasping-fuel are painful.
--SN 56.11
Suffering is a fact of life, and it's true that death is the end of suffering for an individual consciousness (if you don't believe in literal rebirth), but it is most certainly NOT Nibbana.
What you're suggesting may be found in some schools of thought, but certainly not in Buddhism.
[–]AnarquistaLibretheravada 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 21時間前 (8子コメント)
I see your flair says scientific. When you say the Buddha was visited by Mara, is it a literal being or some metaphorical thing? Just curious, because there's really no scientific evidence for some of the claims in Buddhism.
[–]TibetanBookOfNappingscientific 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21時間前 (7子コメント)
Yeah good question. It's entirely metaphor for me, I could have said "desire" or "craving" instead of Mara, but I think that using the language of the Pali Canon is useful when discussing its content. And despite being mostly secular I definitely realize the efficacy of myth and poetic language when it comes to religious ideas (if I didn't I probably wouldn't be Buddhist).
[–]AnarquistaLibretheravada 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 21時間前 (6子コメント)
Hmm now this is interesting to me. I myself am drawn to Thai Forest and Zen because they both seem more rational to me and less about religious superstition. What do you think about rebirth or when the Buddha talked about things like levitating or recalling past lives?
[–]AJungianIdealBig Fan Here 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 15時間前 (1子コメント)
Why do you feel the need to call an idea you disagree with superstition?
[–]AnarquistaLibretheravada 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 10時間前 (0子コメント)
I don't, there are plenty of ideas I disagree with that aren't superstitious.
[+][削除されました] 21時間前 (3子コメント)
[deleted]
[–]spursa 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 20時間前 (1子コメント)
The idea of rebirth was fundamental in the Buddha's culture at the time and so his ideas were naturally placed within those structures.
no, it wasn't. the notion of rebirth was not central to brahmanism during the buddha's time. even among the sramana sects, which formed the other major religious movement, there were varying views as to whether there existed an afterlife and what it might entail. there were teachers such as ajita kesakambalin, a leader of a rival materialist sect, who espoused annihilationism and rejected rebirth altogether. there were other sects which held views about the afterlife and rebirth which differed from the buddha's own. the views of competing teachers are taken up and refuted by the buddha in various discourses, as he seeks to establish the truth of his own teachings on rebirth. if you'd like examples of relevant suttas, refer to this article by thanissaro bhikkhu: The Buddha didn’t just believe in rebirth, he argued for it
In a sense, I think the Buddha was rejecting the idea of reincarnation when he talked about Nibbana
not at all, nirvana in buddhism is understood as the extinguishing of the mental afflictions which lead to rebirth.
[–]TibetanBookOfNappingscientific 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
You're right, I was being way too loose with my language. Thanks for calling me on it.
[–]CPGumbyDharmic 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 17時間前 (0子コメント)
Buddhism is and always has been a religion that adapts to the times and current knowledge of the natural world.
Buddhism has adapted to many different cultures over the last 2,500 years, and now it is in the process of adapting to western culture, including materialism. However let us not kid ourselves that modern adaptations are necessarily any more authentic than previous ones.
[–]fixthefernback88non-affiliated 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
If this was the case then the First Precept wouldn't be.
π Rendered by PID 13598 on app-58 at 2016-04-02 00:13:06.226853+00:00 running 26b0b45 country code: JP.
[–]YesheLama 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Sudden_RelapseLaughing 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]krodha 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Rks1157Theravāda / Saddhānusāri 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (5子コメント)
[–]Peap9326happy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Rks1157Theravāda / Saddhānusāri 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Peap9326happy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]Rks1157Theravāda / Saddhānusāri 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Peap9326happy[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]TibetanBookOfNappingscientific 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (9子コメント)
[–]AnarquistaLibretheravada 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (8子コメント)
[–]TibetanBookOfNappingscientific 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (7子コメント)
[–]AnarquistaLibretheravada 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (6子コメント)
[–]AJungianIdealBig Fan Here 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]AnarquistaLibretheravada 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[+][削除されました] (3子コメント)
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[–]spursa 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]TibetanBookOfNappingscientific 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]CPGumbyDharmic 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
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