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OtherDecriminalised drugs 'would reduce gang harm' (radionz.co.nz)

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[–]speshnz -16ポイント-15ポイント  (43子コメント)

Why would he have to justify his opinion to anyone?

He's entitled to his opinion isnt he?

[–]Calalamity 24ポイント25ポイント  (5子コメント)

He has to justify his opinion when it has an effect on other people.

[–]speshnz -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

bullshit..... he's stating his PERSONAL opinion... the governments Offical position is stated up the article a bit

[–]Calalamity 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can you seriously not understand how the opinion of cabinet ministers relates to opinion of the government?

[–]speshnz -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

of course it relates... but do you think ministers only work on things they personally agree with?

[–]1MillionSpacebucks 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Where does it say that's his personal opinion?

[–]speshnz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Given its not the same as the government position..... and its prefixed with " he was not in favour " rather than "the government is against"

[–]DamonTarlaei 9ポイント10ポイント  (13子コメント)

He's a politician. The standards are higher. He plays a part in how the country is run. If his justification is "because my gut tells me so" compared to "this research, this philosophical argument and this ideological position" then i think something is wrong and he shouldn't be in the position he is.

If it's the other way round, then i can challenge assumptions, evaluate the research or ask for clarification.

This isn't a conversation over coffee, this determines how we run our country. What standards would you hold him to?

[–]speshnz -5ポイント-4ポイント  (12子コメント)

He isnt speaking on behalf of the government.....

[–]DamonTarlaei 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

The opinion was certainly taken in the context of his role in the government.

Health Minister Jonathan Coleman said he was not in favour of decriminalisation.

If this isn't what he is basing his policy decisions on, then that is a different case, but that should be made explicit and it isn't newsworthy to boot. If it is what he is basing his policy decisions on, then it has relevance, and is a form of speaking on behalf of the government. Not all decisions have to go through the PM and how ministers make all decisions is of public importance and should be held to high standards.

If he doesn't have a good basis for this belief, and it is the basis on which he is making decisions, then it begs the question, how good are the bases for other decisions he is making as a minister?

[–]speshnz -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Seriously do you think all the health ministries policy decisions are based on what Jonathan Coleman PERSONALLY wants?

you've got to be joking

[–]canthandlethejandle 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh for fucks sake it's the party line.

[–]speshnz -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, which is why his personal opinion on the subject is irrelevant

[–]DamonTarlaei 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

No, I don't think that they all are.

Let me put it in a different way. You have a person who has been given the job of being the top person in the country when it comes to healthcare policy. He doesn't make all the decisions, and he does get advice from people with more specific knowledge and expertise than him. He does, however, play a huge part in determining the direction of policy and given his position of power, there are a lot of people under him who would not want to contradict him. Such is the nature of politics.

Whether or not all decisions are finally made by him, he has huge influence on how the discussion goes, and the direction in which policy is made and enacted. Given this, all opinions he holds in this area and all decisions he makes are up for public scrutiny, given that this is in the context of government. If it was in the context of a company, he would be up for scrutiny by a combination of the CEO and the board of directors.

As such, his personal opinion on healthcare issues is of importance to the public, and the public has more than enough reason to ask for his reasons for holding a view. This is part of the accountability of his position. I am not saying he is not allowed to hold this view, or express it. In fact, I prefer to know that he has this view and that it is reported. I just think there is missing information that is pertinent and that I, and the rest of the country has the right to know, and I think it is the role of journalists to ask these questions.

[–]speshnz -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

of course, but in this case where his personal opinion is different from the publically stated government position.... who do you think wins?

[–]DamonTarlaei 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If that is indeed the case, then it shouldn't be considered newsworthy. I don't mind if you have an issue with the journalists reporting his opinion in the first place. As it was reported, he was quoted in his role as the Health Minister. Even if it isn't the position of the government as a whole, the party is not actually homogenous and the differences are important.

If you do want to take the position that only the government position is important, when we have a coalition, then the position of any constituent party is irrelevant. If the positions are relevant, then the logic continues to apply through to the ministers and the MP's.

The final policy decisions may be based on the government position, but that is formed in the context of debate within the party. If the person in the role of greatest importance in this area (read, the minister) has a differing opinion, and it is considered worth reporting (which I think it is), then it is also worth asking him why he has this opinion and why his opinion is different from the party.

He is allowed his opinion, but in his role, the public is also allowed to know his opinion and why he holds it. If he considers that he does not wish to disclose his personal opinion, that is fine, provided he is not basing decisions on his own position.

[–]speshnz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of the crap that makes it into the paper isnt newsworthy.... whats your point?

[–]1MillionSpacebucks 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes he is, he's the Health Minister.

[–]speshnz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

No he isnt, the governments postion is clearly stated in the middle of the article.

[–]1MillionSpacebucks 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You just don't get it, do you buddy.

[–]speshnz -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

i dont get this idea that apparently because he has a job in your opinion he's no longer entitled to state his personal opinion?

Why? Do you think that he is incapable of being impartial in his job? Do you think he only works on topics he personally believes in?

[–]green_marks 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because he's a paid employee of the people of this country and we are entitled to know his reasons for how he is conducting himself in the job we employ him in.

[–]speshnz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

So as a result he's no longer allowed to have an opinion?

The government has stated their position... he's stated his opinion... i dont understand why you think somehow he's no longer entitled to have an opinion

[–]green_marks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

When he is being approached as the Minister for Health for this country and he utilizes the platform media provides for him in that capacity to "express an opinion" without any explanation or elaboration.. then yes I would take issue with that.. and I am not really saying he can't have an opinion, but opinions being expressed in his capacity as a Minister of Health should be backed by reasons otherwise it just dumbs things down when we should expect a higher degree of intelligent discourse from people supposedly running the country.

[–]reddituser65496846 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No one said he couldn't have an opinion, just that he should have to justify it. Are you being dense on purpose?

[–]speshnz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

opinions are just that... they dont need to be based on facts... they're opinions.

[–]TheZizekiest 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

He's a government official who holds a ministerial position. His opinion has the ability to impact legislation and affect the lives of millions of people. Of course he should be able to justify it.

Besides, even if he didn't literally hold a ministerial position, if you can't justify your opinion, who cares and why should anyone listen to you?

[–]speshnz -3ポイント-2ポイント  (10子コメント)

of course it does.

But in saying that, the direction in which he as a minister takes is set by the government..... no him personally. He may influnence it, but he doesnt set it.

He's a human and as such is allowed to have an opinion on a topic.

[–]TheZizekiest 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

He's a human and as such is allowed to have an opinion on a topic.

Everyone is allowed an opinion. But if you can't justify then people don't have to pay any attention to it and it's hardly worth mentioning.

[–]dixond 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, he's entitled to represent his constituents.

[–]speshnz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

you talk like the two are mutally exclusive?

[–]dixond 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

You talk like Health Minister Jonathan Coleman should allow his opinion to inform his work as Health Minister.

[–]speshnz -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

that doesnt even make sense as a sentence.

The direction in which he takes the health ministry isnt based on what he thinks.... its based on GOVERNMENT policy. Sure he has influence... but in this case he's saying something different than the government... if he let his personal biases get in the way of the government doing what its publicly saying it wants to do he wouldnt be health minister for long

[–]dixond 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

that doesnt even make sense as a sentence.

Oh, I didn't realise I was having a discussion with someone that failed 5th form English, sorry.

In point of fact, the article doesn't make it clear whether he was asked in his official capacity as Health Minister or whether he was asked for his personal opinion. However the fact that the author titled him as "Health Minister" implies the question probably went something like "Minister Coleman, as Health Minister, what is your opinion on [X]". Meaning he should have been offering an opinion as Health Minister grounded on good evidence based policy decisions reflecting the overall will of his constituency.

[–]speshnz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In point of fact, the article doesn't make it clear whether he was asked in his official capacity as Health Minister or whether he was asked for his personal opinio

Other than the bit where it states the government position and then the but where it says he thinks something different.