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Would you consider Memphis a scouting failure? (self.reddevils)

manutd_ が 投稿

  1. Ineffective dribbling/shooting/playmaking vs PL and CL defenses.
  2. Major defensive liability compared to many other young players like Martial. Has cost us points with defensive errors.
  3. Easily dispossessed and poor decision making for most of the season too even though this is getting better.
  4. We gave him a higher transfer valuation than the likes of Douglas Costa / Kinsgley Coman or Mahrez and equal to Dybala who've performed much better vs higher quality opponents.
  5. It could be argued that we overpaid since we've had to fix weaknesses in so many areas of his game. At the rate he is improving, he requires atleast one more year of work to start doing the no. 7 shirt some sort of justice.
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[–]black_squireMartial 13ポイント14ポイント  (58子コメント)

No a scouting failure. Just taking some time to adjust to a new league. Not completely unheard of given he's from the Dutch league.

[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント  (26子コメント)

i think you can call him a scouting failure.

he was bought because he was familiar to lvg and psg were sniffing around, not because he was the best (young) winger available at that price point. 34m was enough money to get douglas costa or coman. It got chelsea and arsenal willian and sanchez.

i think lvg is one of the greatest tacticians of his generation and youth developers but transfers and squad building have always been his weakness.

he kept trying to veto bayern getting neuer ffs.

he brings guys he's familiar with wherever he goes and gets transfer control.

No other manager would have gone for blind, romero, an over the hill basti and memphis.

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He has a good reason for it. His training and pre match prep (lets just call it philosophy) is insanely difficult and detailed. It requires a 50+ hour work week for all staff.

Those familiar with the system require less time to teach and more people who know the philosophy speeds up teaching it to the full squad and makes it easier to execute the daily grinding method of video analysis, tactical talks etc. that he does.

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He's like saf. He'll prefer players who get his philosophy and listen like good boys rather than freakishly talented players who do their own thing and disregard the game plan.

This pragmatism, however, often leads to very average squads being built by him that overperform because they follow through on his complex game plan very well.

[–]black_squireMartial -5ポイント-4ポイント  (25子コメント)

Familiarity with the system is not Memphis' problem. It's ability to execute in a faster paced and stronger league. The idea behind getting him was also not short term as to judge his scouting after one season. If he proceeds to never become the potential the scouts envisioned, THEN and only then can it be considered a scouting failure.

Falcao was a scouting failure for example. He was tipped to be an immediate impact to our team offensively but his steep decline was either misjudged or a calculated risk given he was loaned an not bought.

Again, I think the issue here is confusing "season failure" to "scouting failure". Even SAF said you had to disregard the first season of players coming from international leagues. Ronaldo also didn't light up the world in his first season. Sure he was younger and showed more moments of brilliance, but then again he wasn't tossed into a brand new team learning a new system of play and trying to deal with a hapless injury crisis.

Simply put, if we were stronger as a team, Memphis would have already been played out of his funk. Playing him consistently right now is more detrimental to an already woeful season and that's the only reason he's still in poor form. If we had much better players surrounding him that could counter his errors and still grind out wins with or without a functioning LW, he'd have gotten enough play time to work out his kinks.

[–]LDN2016 6ポイント7ポイント  (24子コメント)

If he proceeds to never become the potential the scouts envisioned, THEN and only then can it be considered a scouting failure.

at this elite level he doesn't have that much time to prove himself.

we aren't going to keep the lw spot open for him to take another year to find his feet, he's already 22 not some teenager.

i'd be shocked if we don't buy a lw or make martial permanent lw and buy a new striker. memphis wont have a starter spot reserved for him to develop at a club with united's ambitions unless he improves very rapidly.

[–]DANNYWELBECK12345De Gea 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it was a failure, we were all expecting Memphis to be beating men left right and center, but he can barely beat any full backs.

[–]icesurfer10Dave 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think there's still a chance he could turn this ship around. I'm not sure what it is he's missing since coming here but I hope he can find it.

[–]Launch_a_poo -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, I think he'll become a good buy eventually. The potential is there.

[–]tamasuperstarDe Gea -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I have no idea why people are writing him off. Despite popular opinion perpetuated by the media he has a good attitude.

He clearly switches off at times especially defensively and gets frustrated but that's something he'll grow out of.

I don't think you can call him a scouting failure, he was being watched by all the top European clubs, had a fantastic World Cup and would have moved to PSG had we not moved in (doubt people would criticise their scouts).

Not to mention you can't really compare him to ridiculous outliers like Mahrez. Coman also came from a top team and likely wouldn't have moved to us.

[–]LDN2016 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

i think he's going to end up somewhere between nani and ando.

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you see the potential and then you compare the skills to a younger martial and its clear how far behind the lad is.

[–]jbiresqHerrera -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

His biggest problems seem to be adjusting to the pace, intensity and physicality of the Prem but that's not something that could have been scouted. He was rated as one of the brightest prospects in Europe for a reason and we've certainly seen him show it in some of his displays.

[–]manutd_[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

Hes had problems keeping possession, with decision making and with defensive errors too in addition to the pace. I am surprised our scouting didn't catch all of this.

[–]TudoorsYoung -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perhaps they did, those sound characteristic of young players however.

[–]jbiresqHerrera -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

All that stuff comes because he's facing a level of opposition much greater than he's used to. The scouting staff saw something worthwhile in him and thought those problems (which AFAIK were issues at PSV) could be ironed out with proper coaching. This year was always going to be an adjustment and I believe the club knew that.

[–]LDN2016 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

That argument just doesn't fly when Martial's performing as well as he is.

Martial's not world class but is making the sort of mistakes with the sort of inconsistency that you expect of a soon to be world class young forward.

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Memphis has been way below the level expected even if you account for the problems you expect from a youth signing.

[–]jbiresqHerrera -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Martial had also spent a full year playing in France, a league that is much tougher physically than the Eredivisie and relatively close to the Prem. And players develop differently. Memphis was one of the highest rated prospects in Europe for a reason and buying him was defensible. He's had a bad season but I'm not sure why you're saying the scouting was at fault. It can't predict these kinds of mental adjustments.

[–]LDN2016 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Memphis was one of the highest rated prospects in Europe for a reason

World cup hype. It happens every tournament.

We got fucked over overpaying for world cup hype after the 2002 tourney as well.

[–]TheBlackSun8Herrera -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

So psg, bayern, and United's scouting systems don't know what they are doing...

[–]manutd_[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Bayern know what they're doing which is why they were never in for Memphis.

[–]TheBlackSun8Herrera -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Eh, there were clear sources that psg, bayern, United and Liverpool were the clubs in for him.

[–]manutd_[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Liverpool and United were most eager. PSG were also interested though not to that extent and he was never a Bayern target because they had (correctly) identified other targets as it later turned out.

[–]TudoorsYoung -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/15/memphis-depay-bayern-munich-manchester-united-louis-van-gaal

He turned down Bayern to join United, so by your shit logic, every single top team in the world has failed scouting networks. You're actually thick.

[–]ttjoelkerMemphis -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd consider him a young player who has not yet acclimatized to the PL and to playing against tough opponents. he didn't transfer here from a top notch team, he came here from PSV. The PL is the toughest league in the world. Give him time, he will be great.

[–]IDespot90Martial 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

U have point, some players take time to adapt, but modern football is not so kind to giving player time.

[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Memphis looked excellent on paper. It's difficult to predict how a player will adapt to a new environment.

I would not put it down as a scouting failure, no.

[–]manutd_[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the scouts and management do try and make this prediction. They have to make a judgement on whether the player will be a good fit for the new environment or else what is the rationale for bringing the player in.

In this case the judgement has been off the mark IMO.

[–]MisterAlexL -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too early to tell.