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Would you consider Memphis a scouting failure? (self.reddevils)
manutd_ が 1時間前 * 投稿
[–]black_squireMartial 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 59分前 (21子コメント)
No a scouting failure. Just taking some time to adjust to a new league. Not completely unheard of given he's from the Dutch league.
[–]LDN2016 -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 25分前 (2子コメント)
i think you can call him a scouting failure.
he was bought because he was familiar. 34m was enough money to get us a douglas costa. it almost bought a sanchez.
i think lvg is one of the greatest tacticians of his generation but transfers have always been his weakness.
he had the big dutch influx at barca which pissed off those guys too.
.
he has a good reason, those familiar with the system require less time to teach and more people who know the philosophy and daily method of training and preparing speed up the time it takes for the others to learn.
he's like saf. players who get him are worth more to him than talented players who dont understand the system and their role in it.
saf would have bollocked di maria just as badly for disregarding the game plan he had laid out.
[–]black_squireMartial 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 6分前 (1子コメント)
Familiarity with the system is not Memphis' problem. It's ability to execute in a faster paced and stronger league. The idea behind getting him was also not short term as to judge his scouting after one season. If he proceeds to never become the potential the scouts envisioned, THEN and only then can it be considered a scouting failure.
Falcao was a scouting failure for example. He was tipped to be an immediate impact to our team offensively but his steep decline was either misjudged or a calculated risk given he was loaned an not bought.
Again, I think the issue here is confusing "season failure" to "scouting failure". Even SAF said you had to disregard the first season of players coming from international leagues. Ronaldo also didn't light up the world in his first season. Sure he was younger and showed more moments of brilliance, but then again he wasn't tossed into a brand new team learning a new system of play and trying to deal with a hapless injury crisis.
Simply put, if we were stronger as a team, Memphis would have already been played out of his funk. Playing him consistently right now is more detrimental to an already woeful season and that's the only reason he's still in poor form. If we had much better players surrounding him that could counter his errors and still grind out wins with or without a functioning LW, he'd have gotten enough play time to work out his kinks.
[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 4分前 (0子コメント)
If he proceeds to never become the potential the scouts envisioned, THEN and only then can it be considered a scouting failure.
at this elite level he doesn't have that much time to prove himself.
we aren't going to keep the lw spot open for him to take another year to find his feet, he's already 22 not some teenager.
i'd be shocked if we don't buy a lw or make martial permanent lw and buy a new striker. memphis wont have a starter spot reserved for him to develop at a club with united's ambitions unless he improves very rapidly.
[+]manutd_[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 54分前 (17子コメント)
It is a scouting failure in comparative terms if we look at what other top teams who integrated youth got out of them. Memphis was nowhere near as ready as Coman or Dybala who've had stellar seasons.
[–]itsandercontrolBerbatov 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 52分前 (11子コメント)
We don't know if Coman or Dybala would've struggled in PL.
[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 48分前 (10子コメント)
And they play for better sides, both in terms of talent (especially Bayern) and identity. We're just making it up as we go along.
[+]manutd_[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 46分前 (9子コメント)
That's an invalid excuse because Martial has done much better than Memphis in the same system because he was much better prepared (more talented too).
[–]macismydog 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 43分前 (4子コメント)
Martial is the exception not the rule.
It's very uncommon for a kid his age to move to a new country, force his way into the starting 11 and perform as well and as consistently as he has.
[–]manutd_[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 33分前 (3子コメント)
Yeah and our scouting has to ensure that if we lay out 35m for a player he is nearly ready to perform and won't take 2 years to adjust.
[–]TudoorsYoung 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 27分前 (2子コメント)
Forget about the price. United always overpay for players. Depay is not a poorly scouted player, last season he was the best performing youngster and this season he's found it harder to adjust to the EPL. 2 years from now you will still not say he's a scouting failure if he's failed, just a failure.
[–]manutd_[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 22分前 (1子コメント)
Why is he not a scouting failure if we couldn't predict that he would be offensively ineffective, defensive error prone and have problems keeping possession in the PL. He was bought as one of the first team options for this season and we paid 35m for him which is starter money anywhere.
[–]shadowbanned32 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント たった今 (0子コメント)
We could and did. LvG said when we got him that he is young and will not acclimate to the league quickly and that we should not judge him or pressure him yet. You're such an ignorant shmuck
[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 32分前 (2子コメント)
Martial has played better for sure, no doubt about it. But each player is different, you can't just immediately plug them into any situation and expect them to work. So I agree, "scouting" and planning are required to acquire players that fit what you're trying to do as a team. If we had bought Memphis for just this season, he's a failure. But we bought him for a longer time frame, and that frame has a built in period for growing pains. He also hasn't been put into the best position to succeed by the manger, so I really don't get the hate for him.
[–]manutd_[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 25分前 (1子コメント)
We did he expect him to deliver this season since the attacking 4 were expected to be Mata, Rooney Martial and Him. Its not hate really, its just that we're getting low returns on investments and I see our mediocrity continuing until we fix this aspect.
[–]AngryUncleTonyShaw 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18分前 (0子コメント)
I agree, I thought he'd hit the ground running more than he has. I also thought the whole team would be better. Rooney struggled for much of the year, Mata has had his moments but been largely invisible for stretches, and Martial has been our most consistent attacker. It's not a problem unique to Memphis, we've been thoroughly mediocre. I put that down to coaching and lack of talent in certain areas, but Memphis certainly isn't lacking in talent, just it's application.
[–]jbiresqHerrera -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 34分前 (0子コメント)
Because he was playing in the French league, which is much better than the Dutch league. Same with Coman and Dybala playing in Serie A. You can't easily predict how players will adjust to a step up in the quality around them.
[–]SoFuLLEricTheKing 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 34分前 (0子コメント)
Coman isn't a regular starter for Bayern, he's a talented up and coming youngster in a well oiled machine. Much easier context for him. Dybala struggled in his first few months at Juve (as did the whole team). But again he's in a well oiled winning machine, in a league he knows well. I'm disappointed with Memphis' performances but let's give him some more time before declaring him a flop
[–]black_squireMartial 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 30分前 (0子コメント)
I think you're mistaken a first season failure for a scouting failure.
A scouting failure suggests inability to perform whatsoever. Completely misreading his footballing capabilities and assuming quality where there is none.
His display against Midgtylland alone shows he's capable of doing things but only needs to adapt to a faster paced league and stronger opposition. He still has flashes even in games in which he's poor, he just needs to be able to do it more consistently.
[–]MrD3athRyan Fucking Giggs 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 51分前 (1子コメント)
How do you know they'd be good in this team/system?
[–]manutd_[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント-3ポイント 48分前 (0子コメント)
Martial has been better both offensively and defensively than Memphis. The other players I've mentioned have shown similar characteristics in their own clubs.
[–]TheBlackSun8Herrera 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 30分前 (0子コメント)
Coman went from psg to juventus to bayern before he found a footing. He looked really bad at juventus. Things are not black and white
[–]Launch_a_poo 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 53分前 (1子コメント)
No, I think he'll become a good buy eventually. The potential is there.
[–]LDN2016 -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 24分前 (0子コメント)
i think he's going to end up somewhere between nani and ando.
you see the potential and then you compare the skills to a younger martial and its clear how far behind the lad is.
[–]jbiresqHerrera 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 37分前 (7子コメント)
His biggest problems seem to be adjusting to the pace, intensity and physicality of the Prem but that's not something that could have been scouted. He was rated as one of the brightest prospects in Europe for a reason and we've certainly seen him show it in some of his displays.
[–]manutd_[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 31分前 (6子コメント)
Hes had problems keeping possession, with decision making and with defensive errors too in addition to the pace. I am surprised our scouting didn't catch all of this.
[–]TudoorsYoung 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 25分前 (0子コメント)
Perhaps they did, those sound characteristic of young players however.
[–]jbiresqHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
All that stuff comes because he's facing a level of opposition much greater than he's used to. The scouting staff saw something worthwhile in him and thought those problems (which AFAIK were issues at PSV) could be ironed out with proper coaching. This year was always going to be an adjustment and I believe the club knew that.
[–]TheBlackSun8Herrera 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 23分前 (3子コメント)
So psg, bayern, and United's scouting systems don't know what they are doing...
[–]manutd_[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 18分前 (2子コメント)
Bayern know what they're doing which is why they were never in for Memphis.
[–]TheBlackSun8Herrera 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12分前 (1子コメント)
Eh, there were clear sources that psg, bayern, United and Liverpool were the clubs in for him.
[–]manutd_[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 11分前 (0子コメント)
Liverpool and United were most eager. PSG were also interested though not to that extent and he was never a Bayern target because they had (correctly) identified other targets as it later turned out.
[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 8分前 (0子コメント)
Memphis looked excellent on paper. It's difficult to predict how a player will adapt to a new environment.
I would not put it down as a scouting failure, no.
[–]MisterAlexL 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (0子コメント)
Too early to tell.
[–]icesurfer10Dave 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 5分前 (0子コメント)
I think there's still a chance he could turn this ship around. I'm not sure what it is he's missing since coming here but I hope he can find it.
[–]ttjoelkerMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 58分前 (1子コメント)
I'd consider him a young player who has not yet acclimatized to the PL and to playing against tough opponents. he didn't transfer here from a top notch team, he came here from PSV. The PL is the toughest league in the world. Give him time, he will be great.
[–]IDespot90Martial 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 28分前 (0子コメント)
U have point, some players take time to adapt, but modern football is not so kind to giving player time.
π Rendered by PID 30481 on app-94 at 2016-03-30 20:34:23.328794+00:00 running 1a34269 country code: JP.
[–]black_squireMartial 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント (21子コメント)
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[–]LDN2016 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[+]manutd_[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント (17子コメント)
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