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[–]Well_Armed_GorillaForever Carlyle 15ポイント16ポイント  (64子コメント)

A Tumblr comic in which Spider-Man fanboys over one of the artists favourite TV shows, and then violently over-reacts to two cat-callers.

How perfectly awful.

[–]SmilehateThe Goon 32ポイント33ポイント  (26子コメント)

I don't think the comic is at all suggesting he's about to attack them. They're just standing there talking, and it seems more that he's tailing them to make sure they don't cause any more trouble. I'd imagine the artist would've chosen a more "action-y" pose had they wanted to suggest he was about to scrap.

Now, you or I may disagree with his taste in cartoons, but this comic really gets to the heart of who Spider-Man is, indeed who Steve Ditko imagined him to be: A kinda awkward kid who just cannot say no to doing the right thing, even if it's as tedious and inconvenient as walking a stranger home. This comic shows him as the quintessential and literal "street-level" hero, and is (in my opinion) great because of it. His media preferences be damned.

[–]Well_Armed_GorillaForever Carlyle 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think the comic is at all suggesting he's about to attack them.

That's fair enough, it's just the vibe I got from the comic. Spidey seems really keen to "do something about those guys" on the second page, and the emphasis on the "3 - 2 - 1 - let's jam" part of the song on the last page made it seem to me like it was building up to a confrontation of some sort.

Now, you or I may disagree with his taste in cartoons

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Cowboy Bebop, and (given Pete's nerdy leanings) I guess it makes sense for him to like it too; I just think that this comic felt a bit "fan-service-y".

[–]vadergeekMadman 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the bit of music implies he's about to punch them.

[–]Ashenspire 1ポイント2ポイント  (23子コメント)

they don't cause any more trouble

They didn't cause any trouble to begin with. This isn't Spider-Man doing the right thing, this is Tumblr imposing it's safe-space/microaggression nonsense into the comic book world.

[–]adamantium3Wolverine 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

They made the protagonist feel like there was a possibility that she was going to be attacked or raped. If you're afraid someone is tailing you for whatever reason, be it hand ninjas out to kill you because you know about the ancient maguffin of power or you're running over horrific scenarios in your mind don't you think spidey should protect you?

[–]ScornfulLysanderDaredevil 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They made the protagonist

I know this is iffy, but I'm pretty sure Spider-Man's the protagonist of the comic. The most focus is given on him, and we have more insight on his feelings than the lady's.

[–]Helmet_Icicle -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're just standing there talking

[–]deathsquaddesignFantomex 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

So you're ok with two men following any of the women in your life around at night while throwing comments at them that suggest sexual attraction?

You're either blind to the world we live in or you're being deliberately obtuse...or you're 15, can't tell.

[–]Ashenspire -4ポイント-3ポイント  (9子コメント)

There's nothing in this comic suggesting they followed her other than the woman's uncanny ability to see around corners and claim they're following her.

[–]deathsquaddesignFantomex 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

Do you doubt that the Spider-Man in the comic is the real one? He only said he is and the web-slinging could be in his imagination at the end. I guess we shouldn't trust the authors of any fiction because we'll never know if what they're making is actually real.

[–]Ashenspire -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

You're a certain kind of special, aren't ya?

[–]SmilehateThe Goon 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

You've spent this whole thread asserting that women have no reason to feel threatened by strange men accosting them on the street at night, and you're calling other people a "certain kind of special?"

[–]Ashenspire -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

That's not what I said at all. What I said was there's no evidence she was accosted. She was simply spoken to, and that doesn't require a superhero to make a safe space for her.

[–]SmilehateThe Goon 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Googled "accost". First hit. Accost: approach and address (someone) boldly or aggressively

They follow her and catcall her. This makes her scared, so she asks for some help. And all he does is walk her home, then check up on the guys to see if they're causing any more trouble.

You're conflating the uber-liberal idea of a space where speech and opinion are curtailed for people's "emotional" safety with the simple idea of making a person safe. It's all he's doing. It's simple, mundane, and still heroic. If you think that making a woman feel like she's about to be assaulted, even if you don't plan on assaulting her, is fine, then what more is there to say? That kind of attitude makes you a bully and a creep, and there will be no convincing you that you're either of these.

[–]Captain_Excellent 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

Eh, two guys catcalling a lone woman on a city street at night could be pretty threatening. Idk I'm not a woman and have never been in that situation, but even if it was lighthearted they still made that woman feel unsafe.

I don't think the guys necessarily intended to harm her/scare her, but they should be more aware of the consequences of their actions. Men shouldn't act "predatory" around women at night and expect them to feel safe, because of the difference in physicality. There's an implication that things could go very badly for the woman if the man/men decided to act hostile.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 3ポイント4ポイント  (35子コメント)

He looks menacing. I don't think he's going to fight, probably just going to put the fear of god in 'em.

[–]RetConBombJustice 2ポイント3ポイント  (34子コメント)

Put the fear of god in 'em for catcalling? Long enough ago that he could take a train elsewhere and swing back? That still seems like a crazy over-reaction.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 11ポイント12ポイント  (28子コメント)

They were being threatening, now Spider-Man is going to be threatening. That seems proportional to me.

[–]RetConBombJustice 0ポイント1ポイント  (23子コメント)

He's going to be threatening like a half an hour later to two people who did nothing but say crappy things.

If he was present and said "Hey leave her alone" I could get behind it, but going back and giving them shit over it a while after the fact seems pretty ridiculous to me. They said "Hey bby ur hot", he's going to use his superpowers to either beat them up or terrify them. These two things are not equal.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

I don't understand the whole "Spidey's response has to be immediate" thing. I know that's important for training dogs, are they dogs?

[–]RetConBombJustice 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Because a half an hour later they might not even realize what this was about. They said a combined two sentences to a stranger, not exactly the sort of thing that most people are going to commit to memory, and unless Spider-Man gives them some kind of speech it's not like Spider-Man showing up would have any context to them.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't understand why Spider-Man couldn't just, like... use words and make the situation clear.

[–]RetConBombJustice 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

But that's not what we're presented with. We're presented with a Spider-Man who's being menacing and apparently prepping to assault people. That last panel is not the look of a Spider-Man who's going to give two assholes a talking-to.

I think catcalling is stupid and people shouldn't do it. I don't think the proper response is to put the assholes in fear of their lives and well-being.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Worth pointing out that cat-calling put that woman in fear for her life and well being.

I didn't read the final panel as a prelude to physical violence, although I totally get that reading. I agree with you that I don't want Spider-Man sending them to the hospital or anything.

[–]ScornfulLysanderDaredevil 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Small detail, but, if he was planning to talk to them, why would he put his headphones in?

[–]justreadthecomment 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

The woman said the guys had been following her for a while, unless you think she's making it up for attention. People get raped. I know you don't. People do.

[–]RetConBombJustice -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

That's not what we're actually presented with in the story, though. The story is comprised of words and pictures, the pictures never show them leaving that lightpost or even approaching her.

She also doesn't say they were following her for "a while", she says "There's these guys following me" and that they're around the corner. It's entirely possible for her to think/feel like they're following her but not be making it up if they aren't.

[–]justreadthecomment 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

This isn't about the artist's work, at all. This is about you working really hard to live in a world where women shouldn't fear being victimized. We have every reason to believe her that scary dudes were following and harassing her. People who follow and harass women are shitty, potentially very dangerous people. I'd rather live in a world where guys who are only probably forcing women to live in fear be taken seriously and women feel safe, over a world where "hey, some people suck, try not to fear being raped and murdered so much! You didn't know for a fact they were going to rape and murder you, that's just a socially acceptable fear you have to live with!"

[–]RetConBombJustice 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

This isn't about the artist's work, at all.

That's actually exactly what I'm complaining about. I never said anything about the woman's reaction being uncalled for or over the top. You decided I did, though. I said that maybe what we're presented with in the story isn't call for them being assaulted by a superhuman.

[–]justreadthecomment 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

What do you need? Do you need additional panels of them to brandish a knife? Say "we're gonna get you"? Exercise empathy and I will notice you doing so.

[–]deathsquaddesignFantomex -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what is the statute of limitations on shitty social behavior?

[–]RetConBombJustice 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shitty social behavior isn't a crime, but you should probably do something about it when you know for sure that they'll know what you're reacting to.

[–]RemusShepherd 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think threatening language is proportional to the threat of violence by a superpowered bug man.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Spider-Man >> Cat-caller

Cat-callers >> The woman

In each situation the former can ruin the latter's life, just by deciding to. They're less different than you think.


Cat calling isn't bad just because it's rude. It's bad because it threatens all the worse things that could come after.

In a lot of situations the primary thing (or only thing) keeping a woman safe is the social contract, an expectation of proper behavior. When the social contract is broken, that sense of safety is also taken away.

[–]RemusShepherd -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I understand all that. I just think that threatening super-powered violence is an out of proportion response to a scary social situation. It's like bringing a tank to enforce manners at a family dinner table.

[–]YawehgSpider-Man 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand all that. I just think that threatening super-powered violence is an out of proportion response to a scary social situation. It's like bringing a tank to enforce manners at a family dinner table.

Calling it a scary social situation downplays what we're taking about. It's harassment. It's textbook harassment. We're a hop and a skip away from assault.

Spidey is going to use their fear to teach them a lesson and get them to stop harassing in the future; I think that's proportional. Even if it isn't though, "disproportional" is an odd complaint to levy against Spider-Man because Spidey responds disproportionally all the time.

What does he do when fighting a purse-snatcher? He webs their feet, smashing their face right into the pavement. Or he webs the purse away and kicks them in the chest with his super-strength. That's a level of violence beyond what they inflicted, but we accept it because we understand it as a remedy to the crime. That guy isn't going to steal purses anymore because Spider-Man beat him up and sent him to jail.*

What's the remedy in this case? Is it a stern talking to? I think that's unlikely, and even if talking would work in our world it's not a reasonable comic-book remedy.


*Spider-Man will occasionally just web them to a lightpost or something, but we don't begrudge disproportional violence when he chooses to use it, that's the point.

[–]ceskay0 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

They were also following her. I don't think the cat-calling alone would have motivated her to put up with Peter's nerd talk all the way home.

[–]RetConBombJustice 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Perhaps the art should have indicated that, then.

[–]ceskay0 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The dialogue states pretty clearly that she was being followed, not simply cat-called.

Also, we're talking about someone's 3-page fanart on Tumblr. Let's dial down the expectations a little, eh?

[–]RetConBombJustice 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Right, but the art shows them never leaving the lightpost. I don't think the expectations of having them actually follow her are too high. The dialogue also says they're around the corner - so she can't even know they're following her. She can't see them.

It's a good premise that I don't feel was executed very well.

[–]ceskay0 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, my assumption was that they had been following her for several blocks, she turned the corner, ran into Spider-Man, and then they hung back. shrug

If the artist did this in an actual comic book, I would agree (and also be puzzled as to why they're doing a 22-page comic about walking a girl home), but for fanart, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[–]TheMagicStikGuy Gardner -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know dude holyshit, this is some top tier tumblr cringe.