5172
5173

SecurityUber's bug bounty program is a complete sham, specific evidence entailed. (self.technology)

theethicalhacker が 投稿

So if you weren't aware Uber recently launched a bug bounty program. Basically paying security researchers to find bugs that pose a security risk. Now fast forward a couple days, the number one rated hacker on hackerone(site that crowd sources the bounty program) @meals reports that uber changed their scope page tweet once they rejected a bunch of bugs on a specific domain tweet in order to evade payout. This not only happened to the top hacker on hackerone but also myself. I reported a xss bug and this is the conversation screenshot Imgur. They ultimately closed my bug and reopened it STATING it was a new valid bug, then closed it again. They validated it was a bug and swindled me out of a payout. A billion dollar company refuses to pay for valid bugs. We are asking for fair treatment for the security work we do and no one is holding uber's feet to the fire.

Edit: I have decided to take on Uber with legal action. Help fight this evil company with a donation: link

上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]mikelae18 3469ポイント3470ポイント  (142子コメント)

Yes. Piss off people capable of hacking your company.

[–]TheLazyD0G 1040ポイント1041ポイント  (87子コメント)

What could go wrong?

[–]jaxxa 708ポイント709ポイント  (72子コメント)

It isn't even like a company such a Target or McDonald's doing this. If Uber don't have their website / app working and secure they have no business.

[–]Toddsci 430ポイント431ポイント  (70子コメント)

They don't even have the "run by old technophobes with no understanding of computers" excuse, this is a business built on technology and networks.

[–]jasrenn2 201ポイント202ポイント  (69子コメント)

And screwing people out of money

[–]kickingpplisfun 18ポイント19ポイント  (9子コメント)

Well, Uber's already been known to screw people out of money- they literally front 90% of the operating costs onto their drivers anyway.

[–]nowake 35ポイント36ポイント  (6子コメント)

I drove 3 weekend nights over the course of a month, maybe 7-8 hours a night generally from 7pm-3am. Brought in $399, of which Uber kept $126. Out of the remaining $273, I spent $45 on the vehicle inspection (needed nothing) and maybe $60 in the partial tanks of gas I used. So $168 for 21 hours of work, so maybe 8 dollars an hour, and out of that I paid the incremental costs for keeping the vehicle running. Tires, brakes, gas, oil, time and supplies spent cleaning the car, none of that was really figured in since I didn't make major purchases to stay on the road. Nor did I factor in car or insurance payments or a smart phone & data plan, since I've already paid for those.

When I did my taxes, I was able to claim a loss of $71 for my "business" of being a private contractor. Not only does Uber depend on people already owning their vehicles and phones, but rides on the backs of the American taxpayer as a whole. They don't contribute to the tax base, but take from it.

If the money was there, I would have bought a second car and kept doing it. The money wasn't good enough to pay for the car I was using, let alone a second one. Uber submarines fares past the point of an unsustainable business, and relies on continually finding fresh blood to come in and keep the business going. No wonder you still hear the radio ads going non-stop.

[–]sbhikes 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't get why people continue to be Uber drivers. I'm not being snarky, I just wonder why they do it. It doesn't seem that good a deal.

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]CJGibson 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think that was the point. /u/jasrenn2 was extending the previous statement. "... this is a business built on technology and networks ... and screwing people out of money."

    [–]toerrisbadsyntax 51ポイント52ポイント  (47子コメント)

    after seeing some of the "fake puke" cleaning fee fiascos - I'd rather pay a cab company the inflated rate (like there's any uber around me.. heh) but still... at least the cab company is a reputable local business.

    [–]I_divided_by_0- 72ポイント73ポイント  (17子コメント)

    I'd rather pay a cab company the inflated rate

    Funny, last time I was in NYC, I was on the upper west side and needed to get from 188th street to Times square, Uber was going to be estimated $45 and wouldn't be there for 10 mins. The cab was right there and ended up $24.

    [–]usernameshmoosername 41ポイント42ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I had an opposite experience. I got a cab to the northside of my city from the southside. Cost $60 all up. Got an Uber back, $20.

    [–]ninjychop716 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Until it gets busy then its $150.

    [–]Kiosade 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

    $80 just to travel across a city for a day?! What a joke...

    [–]Ivebeenfurthereven 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

    and this is why I like my bicycle :)

    Taxi costs are out of hand, public transport isn't much better here in the UK, and even car ownership is an expensive beast.

    Riding a bike around a city makes me feel like a goddamned wizard sometimes.
    You arrive faster - not just fast, but predictably fast regardless of traffic - and can get just about anywhere, from right outside the shopping centre to the middle of nowhere, completely free. My non-cycling friends are perplexed that I can live on the other side of town and still make casual trips to different areas without finding it a hassle.

    Or that I can go out in the middle of the night without giving a shit about the last bus, higher taxi rates, or the dangers of walking alone (I reckon with decent lights - which have never been so cheap or so powerful, check out /r/flashlight - night cycling is actually safer than in busy traffic during the day, the roads are so wonderfully empty and peaceful). In a word, a bike is total independence. Far faster and better range than walking, far less of a headache than when I drive my car or rely on trains/buses/taxis. My car's been off the road for some fairly major repairs for the last month, and I only miss it when I need to go long distance. The bike is superior for all local travel.

    Feels good, man.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]drunkfoowl 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I travel often for work. NYC and Vegas are the two places that taxis still hold king. Vegas because of the the local politics and NYC because of the one way grid system. No surprise that you found the taxi better! Everywhere else though uber kills it.

        コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

          [–]tofu- 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

          That's where charge backs come in

          [–]Dormont 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

          If you use a charge back you will probably no longer be able to use that card with that business. Depending on the card you may also be subject to proving your case. Some cards side with the merchant over the user, especially if you have bad payment habits and have a card of that tier.

          [–]PhillAholic 45ポイント46ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Getting scammed over fake puke is the best example of using a charge back right that I can think of. If Uber refused to investigate / refund me I'd be done with them too.

          [–]Ivebeenfurthereven 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yeah, this is literally why that service exists. Credit cards aren't free, so use the protections you're paying for when you deserve them.

          [–]Raw1213 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Had someone with bad payments habits (she got sued in my state from non payment on her cards) and the charge back still. Went in her favor. Lost $850.

          [–]BaKdGoOdZ0203 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Take a picture of the car seat right before closing the door when you get out...? I realise doing this every time is a huge pain in the ass.

          [–]AsSubtleAsABrick 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          But if you have good payment habits (should be requisite for credit cards anyway), they refund you money pretty much no questions asked. I've gotten a charge back refunded by my credit card company guaranteed, regardless of the outcome of their investigation.

          Don't try to scare people from using the best feature a credit card offers (security). If you aren't commiting fraud then the result of their investigation will be in your favor (if the merchant even fights it).

          コメントをもっと表示する (22 返事)

            コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

              [–]theepicgamer06 64ポイント65ポイント  (0子コメント)

              When your business requires trust from customers that you are safe. You should probably not piss of the people who can undo that trust

              [–]platysoup 265ポイント266ポイント  (9子コメント)

              I sincerely hope Uber shows up in /r/Whatcouldgowrong some time this week for this.

              [–]PM_ME_YOUR_DAD_BELLY 46ポイント47ポイント  (5子コメント)

              I've been on /r/hailcorporate long enough to know that within a week their PR team is going to get Uber on the front page with a positive story. Something like, 'TIL some Uber drivers make up to $250,000.' I can't think of a better fake headline off the top of my head, haha, but I'm calling it.

              [–]Hofulu 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              that's what reddit is becoming. all of the main subreddits are losing control to outside influence, this kind of pr stuff u describe has been happening every other week ffs

              コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                  コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                    [–]Darkmatchfan 123ポイント124ポイント  (10子コメント)

                    Why invite hackers in, in the first place, with the enticement of $10,000? What did they think was going to happen?

                    "Oh, shit... They're actually finding bugs, now what?" I bet they'll payout eventually, as PR damage control. But the Internet has a long memory.

                    [–]Jesuslordofporn 80ポイント81ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    Lets offer to pay people for work, and then not pay them! What could go wrong? Brilliant buissness strategy. Forbes, here I come.

                    [–]RustedWheel 65ポイント66ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    To be fair, Uber is built upon the idea of offering to pay people for work and then dramatically cutting that pay over time. Why wouldn't they try going all the way to zero?

                    [–]cantadmittoposting 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Somebody who was either way too overconfident or way too underknowledgeable came up with this idea. No shit you're going to end up reneging when probably dozens of inconsistencies would be found instantly.

                    [–]MGJon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    They thought they were so good at coding their stuff that they would end up with positive PR. "Look, we're offering money to people so we can make our system more secure, but they just haven't found any bugs! Not only are we nice, but we're secure!"

                    コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                      [–]artgo 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Furthermore, these people have a talent for organizing and presenting details of problems. So if you piss them off, they are likely to share it and compare notes with others involved in the program!

                      [–]Herman999999999 64ポイント65ポイント  (32子コメント)

                      The Romans hired Barbarians.

                      [–]saviouroftheweak 89ポイント90ポイント  (23子コメント)

                      They paid them

                      [–]Moos_Mumsy 51ポイント52ポイント  (22子コメント)

                      But they didn't pay them. That's the problem. Barbarians get upset when they don't get paid.

                      [–]BasicDesignAdvice 27ポイント28ポイント  (19子コメント)

                      At least for Roman history it was more likely that the barbarians just went home. Obviously that wasn't always the case. It was much more dangerous to fail to pay Roman legionaries.

                      Eventually though barbarians became so ingrained they became rulers and emperors themselves. Which is a more apt analogy. Uber should be hiring these people not pissing them off.

                      [–]theprinceofkanada 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                      Uber doesn't even consider it's own drivers it's employees, just to avoid paying for insurance and other costs. Cities all over Canada have started to call them out on it and instead of making changes they just choose to not provide services in that city.

                      [–]inkhogneatoh 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      I'm guessing the changes would make their business model infeasible, so one way or the other they leave.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                        コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

                          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                            [–]BasicDesignAdvice 13ポイント14ポイント  (7子コメント)

                            Eventually the barbarians became the Romans.

                            [–]kj4ezj 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            *people that already have hacked your company

                            [–]PSBlake 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            If you start with "Please actively seek vulnerabilities in our platform. Here's an incentive," changing your position to "yoink" is ill-advised.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                              [–]michel_v 766ポイント767ポイント  (30子コメント)

                              Ah, the good old "bug bounty" scam, when every bug is marked a duplicate and silently fixed without payment.

                              I'd wager this is one reason why bugs are sold on the black market. Meanwhile, corporations are happily endangering their business by being cheap cunts.

                              [–]danby 162ポイント163ポイント  (23子コメント)

                              If you actually want to fix your bugs, hire your own damn security hackers

                              Edit: yes, yes. I get it. It was more a quip about user's labour practice than a serious suggestion about how to security debug software.

                              [–]earslap 149ポイント150ポイント  (10子コメント)

                              Your own security team is obviously a must but there is not enough money in the world to buy the collective effort of bug bounty hunters if you have a reasonably sized attack surface. If you are Google, Facebook or Uber, there are thousands of people trying various things with all the creases and crevices of your service to get in at any moment to get a bounty. Imagine you attempted to hire that amount of people to do the same. It just isn't sustainable.

                              If you have a static website and a single API point, sure, securing it should be easy with a couple of experienced security experts. If you have a site that has user generated content, payments, mobile apps, multiple API endpoints for different sides of your service that interact with each other in complex ways and more... you simply cannot buy the will of thousands of security people trying every combination to get in for some cookie by other means. Bug bounty programs are a no brainer from that perspective; it turns something ridiculously expensive into a ridiculously affordable thing. It is amazing that even reputable companies are still trying to scam people out of their bounties given the amazing deal they are getting out of this.

                              [–]joevsyou 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

                              Yup you are right, company own team isn't enough. I read a article last month saying google paid out 1.6 million to hackers for finding bugs for 2015

                              [–]jmac 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              And 1.6 million is almost a rounding error to them. I imagine they get more return on investment from this program than from any other thing they spend money on.

                              [–]cosmicsans 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              Right. 1.6 million is easily less than the salary of 16 security experts to live in Mountain View.

                              I'm sure they found more than 16 security expert's worth of bugs, so it's undeniably cheaper to go that route.

                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                  [–]cunninglinguist81 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Not to mention that with an internal security team, training them yourself automatically means they're thinking along certain paths when testing for vulnerabilities, when sometimes what you need is the wildcard to think outside the box. Both is best, and I agree a company as big as Uber cheaping out like this is ridiculous...and yet not uncommon.

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                    [–]paperhat 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Even if you have a thousand hackers on your security, you still want a bug bounty program. When somebody external finds an exploit, you want it to be in their interest to report it to you.

                                    [–]Next_to_stupid 24ポイント25ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                    Nah, you can always hire a team to do an audit but you cannot hire tens/hundreds of thousands of people trying to find bugs in these sites.

                                    I think I'm a somewhat competent coder so with that you need to know all these popular exploits, how to secure your site, ect, but there's no way in hell im able to think of every little thing. Anyone who thinks their servers/site are 100% secure are delusional.

                                    [–]mistermorteau 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    :) It's the same kind of con than when a company makes a contest offering 10 000$ for their new logo, giving their chances to unknow designers.
                                    At end they avoid to paid a design company, which would ask much more.
                                    And only one participant get payed, all the others worked for free.

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                      [–]ours 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Well the black market has been there for a while. This was to offer a legit alternative.

                                      It they don't pay for bugs the whole thing falls appart and it's back to the black market.

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                        [–]ImVeryOffended 1062ポイント1063ポイント  (227子コメント)

                                        Not surprising. Uber is a shady company.

                                        http://time.com/3690325/uber-privacy-audit/

                                        http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/18/7242699/uber-ceo-says-threats-against-journalists-showed-a-lack-of-humanity

                                        http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhuet/2014/11/18/uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-calls-execs-comments-terrible-but-wont-fire-him/

                                        [–]PMan1 313ポイント314ポイント  (143子コメント)

                                        Bingo, why anyone expected Uber to play fair based on their track record amazes me

                                        [–]winlifeat 124ポイント125ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        i expect anyone with any sort of intelligence realize that the money lost through paying bounties is degrees less than a compromise would cost.

                                        [–]scottbrio 40ポイント41ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        Anyone remember the $1,000 per person signup bonus they offered then (for the most part) flaked out of?

                                        [–]leechkiller 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        I actually made 4 grand off that deal, and 3 on the identical Lyft deal.

                                        [–]Crusader1089 239ポイント240ポイント  (131子コメント)

                                        Even its fundamental purpose is shady to me. "We can undercut taxi companies and still make profit by claiming not to be a taxi company and shirking all the legal responsibilities of a taxi company!"

                                        (although being able to call a cab and pay for it all on your phone, with cheaper fares, is an understandable desire for users).

                                        [–]Doomdiver 128ポイント129ポイント  (80子コメント)

                                        In the UK Uber drivers actually do need to be licsensed taxi drivers and they still manage to undercut other taxi companies while not in surge. It seems they don't even need to find loopholes to undercut everyone else. The reduction of admin costs seems to do the job well enough.

                                        [–]put_on_the_mask 146ポイント147ポイント  (29子コメント)

                                        You've accidentally pointed out why this doesn't matter for Uber's finances - it's the driver who is responsible for getting licenced. It aligns 100% with Uber's business model, which is to lobby government to avoid as much cost and regulation as possible, and to offload whatever's left onto the drivers if at all possible. The only effect the UK licence requirement has on them is to limit the pool of drivers they can recruit from, but not enough to be meaningful.

                                        [–]GrzegorzWidla 49ポイント50ポイント  (28子コメント)

                                        Having drivers at all is only temporary. Long term Uber wants self driving cars - that's their #1 investment.

                                        [–]Jigsus 46ポイント47ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                        That's honestly just a bunch of PR nonsense. Anyone working in the SDC industry can tell you uber is not doing any research. They are just playing the waiting game

                                        [–]asusa52f 31ポイント32ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                        Didn't they just open a big research facility in Pittsburgh and poach a lot of the Carnegie Mellon AI staff?

                                        [–]nope_nic_tesla 25ポイント26ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                        Yes, in conjunction with Google Ventures they opened a >$1 billion research facility in Pittsburgh.

                                        [–]bretstar 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        My body is ready, I'm sick of driving. Where the fuck are they flying cars already? We only have 46 years to fulfill The Jetsons Prophecy.

                                        コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                                          [–]warriormonkey03 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                          Can confirm. I work downtown and have a friend who is going through the interview process, and also see their cars on a weekly basis. They are wasting a ton of money if they are just playing the waiting game.

                                          [–]LvS 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          Uber is a HUGE gamble. They'll either waste a few billions and die or they'll come out as the replacement of all public transport and make billions. But that's what VC money is for.

                                          [–]somanayr 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I was just visiting CMU and the CS staff were pretty bitter about this. It was something like half their robotics faculty, I think?

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                            コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                [–]joelomite11 16ポイント17ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                What they did was figure out how to pass the entire cost of maintaining a fleet onto their employees. Its pretty easy to undercut taxi companies when your only overhead is basically maintaining a website.

                                                [–]Crusader1089 22ポイント23ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                                I did not know the UK ones had to be licensed. That is sensible.

                                                And yes, I imagine Uber's business model does reduce operational costs, it just angers me when they shirk the responsibilities other taxi companies have. If they are following the rules of a taxi company and still undercutting the competition more power to them.

                                                [–]nashvortex 19ポイント20ポイント  (31子コメント)

                                                It also angers me that taxi companies want to fight this by litigation rather than becoming competitive. Because the ONLY reason I would chose Uber over a traditional cab is the cost factor.

                                                In Germany, you can call a traditional cab by phone or app for no additional charge anyway so convenience is not an issue.

                                                [–]Lots42 35ポイント36ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                In Florida the traditional experience is calling for a cab by phone and the cab not showing up at all whatsoever.

                                                [–]roadbuzz 41ポイント42ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                How can taxi companies be competitive if they have a fuck tonne more regulations to comply with?

                                                [–]TricksterPriestJace 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                I don't know what litigation there is in your area, but where I am the taxi company isn't suing uber, they are suing the city. Uber is cheaper because taxi rates are set by the municipality. So this company is built on ignoring taxi bylaws and the city isn't bothering to enforce them. The taxis are rightly pissed at the municipality because they are getting fucked over for obeying the law while the competition can flaunt the regulations with relative impunity.

                                                If the cities bothered to enforce their bylaws uber would just be a taxi company with a better app. Uber would still make a shit ton of money because they have lower overhead without employing call takers.

                                                [–]cotch85 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                See i'm the complete opposite.. Cost is not > experience for me. I will happily pay the extra for a better car, a clean driver who doesn't talk on the phone in another language the whole journey and respects that i'm paying for the trip. Like spotify via uber drivers is amazing, the fact they offer you refreshments etc. The fact the cars are normally clean and smell fresher than taxi's and the drivers are friendly i'd happily pay extra for that, but the fact ubers cheaper and i get the experience i want from it is exactly why if i could i would use it every day over an actual taxi but since leaving australia, i dont think uber is here in my city in England.

                                                [–]nashvortex 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                I don' know how it is in England, but in Germany taxi drivers are very professional, cars are clean Mercedes E220s with quality that Uber is actually trying to catch UP to : http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/12/uber-hitting-e-class-taxi-roadblock-germany/ (you have to pay upto 55 euro to have the cab cleaned up if you make a mess in it) and typically, taxi drivers will not start a conversation with you unless you do it first. You get route updates via app to ensure you are not being swindled etc.

                                                So Uber brings minimal benefit beyond cost hereabouts.

                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                      [–]sanity 73ポイント74ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                      In my city (Austin TX) the taxi companies are a joke. On busy nights they'll (illegally) refuse to pick you up if you're not travelling far enough. Black male? Good luck getting a taxi to stop for you at any time. Order a taxi? Wait on hold for 10 minutes, and even if you reserve a taxi, you have a 50% chance that they'll show up, much lower if you happen to live in a poorer part of town. Oh, you want to use a credit card? Sorry, their machine is "broken" even though they have visa and mastercard on their windows.

                                                      Many of the taxi drivers are rude, their taxis are dirty, I've had a few taxi drivers that were almost certainly drunk or on drugs.

                                                      The so-called "legal responsibilities" of a taxi company are a smokescreen to justify a corrupt monopoly controlled by a handful of very shady businesses that use their local political connections to perpetuate their stranglehold.

                                                      In contrast, Uber/Lyft drivers will pick you up when they say they will, the whole process is incredibly convenient, and the rating system is effective at quickly weeding out any bad apples.

                                                      The taxi monopolies were justified on the basis that without them we couldn't have a safe, efficient, and fair way to get around the city door-to-door. The popularity and success of ridesharing companies prove that this isn't the case.

                                                      [–]hkpp 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      I don't care about the cheap fares since I use them for business. Philly cabs are garbage, dirty, driven by assholes (literally 50% of them are jerkoff slimebags, in my experience...Causing accidents, running stop signs, refusing rides if no cash, forcing people to go to ATMs or they'll call the cops, going a mile out of their way if they think you're a tourist and, again, threatening to call police on you for not paying, several times recently smelling booze on rides home from the airport that I could do nothing about other than call 911 after the fact because we're already on i95, one tried kicking me out of his cab on a highway onramp for not having cash, lying fuckwit dispatchers who, even when you reserve 24 hours in advance will lose your reservation then claim the cab is around the corner when you call after they're 10 minutes late and you have a flight to catch)

                                                      That run-on sentence is fully accurate and anyone who lives in Philly will back me up with similar experiences. Uber's draw for me isn't even the convenience, it's the reliability of knowing when my cab is coming, who is driving me and being able to contact him or her directly, and a virtual guarantee that if one driver cancels, another will be right there.

                                                      For all the cries about the regulatory agencies about safety, I've been in way more cabs in NYC and Philly where the license in the back of the cab didn't match the person driving. With Uber, if the driver is different, I know right away and I don't get in - not that it's ever happened.

                                                      Yes, Uber is run by scumbags and they don't pay their drivers well. If you're sympathetic to the drivers, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO TIP. I always tip the drivers 20%+ cash because that person driving you NEEDS it and, besides being paid dick, they're on the hook for all the expenses. Uber does nothing besides provide them with software, essentially.

                                                      [–]Coomb 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Uber does nothing besides provide them with software, essentially.

                                                      I mean when that software is literally the only thing that is allowing them to find customers (and therefore have a business at all) that's pretty important right?

                                                      [–]Goonboo 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                      Getting a class 4 license is a fucking joke. You pay 100 dollars and do your class 5 driving test again. So licenced cab driver is basically a crock of shit.

                                                      [–]Crusader1089 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      I am not talking about skills as a driver, I am referring to the legal protection of the passengers and the insurance. You experience many legal protections you are probably unaware of as a taxi passenger that you do not experience as a ride-share passenger.

                                                      [–]NegligentKarma 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      You experience many legal protections you are probably unaware of as a taxi passenger that you do not experience as a ride-share passenger.

                                                      Such as?

                                                      [–]dahdly 20ポイント21ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                      uber drivers also provide way better service than taxi drivers, for whom i have little sympathy.

                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (21 返事)

                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                          [–]TheContrarian2 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Don't forget these kinds of shenanigans...

                                                          http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-requests-lyft/

                                                          [–]syuk 82ポイント83ポイント  (56子コメント)

                                                          They astroturf the shit out of reddit.

                                                          [–]NOPR 203ポイント204ポイント  (46子コメント)

                                                          I think you underestimate how many people just love using Uber. It's not hard to look like the good guy when your competition is an entrenched monopoly that's been providing terrible services at exorbitant prices for decades. I'm not saying Uber is perfect or even good, but it's half the price of every other option where I live, it's faster, and it's easier. I'll keep using it.

                                                          [–]phro 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          It's more about the bullshit they spew to attract drivers. It's nearly a minimum wage job if you calculate your expenses. They were running ads that you could make 70k+ and the in small print stating that was if you worked 60 hours and in reality you'd have to work 90. They also got a lot of people on the hook with car loans and then reduced rates by 20% twice in 2014. The only time they were willing to share the car loads of money they are earning was when they were still establishing their legal foothold.

                                                          [–]artgo 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          I sometimes wish the tech-community could have more idealism at it's roots and not big stock market payoffs. If we had a few co-op or non-profit organizations who made it big - we could maybe reduce the astroturf fears.

                                                          I've looked at open source solutions for public bus transpiration in the USA (specifically for Android and Android Wear) - and there is very little idealism. A lot of startups who want to cash in on government contracts and API domination. Public Transportation is the root of community, a bus or train is literally a place to meet your neighbor.

                                                          Democratic elections software, and comparative vote counting (once online with an independent non-profit, once using the established system) also seems to be the kind of thing that cries out for radical open-source and global sharing. But rarely do educated tech workers mention this void in the society.

                                                          [–]VannaTLC 19ポイント20ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                          Its not overly competitive, price wise, in Sydney, and the service is not significantly better or worse.

                                                          The convenience is higher, with payment.

                                                          [–]NOPR 26ポイント27ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                          In London it's about 60% of the price of a black cab. I've taken the same journey from my house the airport nearly 50 times over the past three years, with a black cab it was always £50-55 and with uber it's £30-35. And uber doesn't bitch about me using a credit card.

                                                          [–]warriormonkey03 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          This is probably the number one reason to use Uber in my mind. Fuck you cab driver for not telling me you only take AMEX or cash even though it clearly says Visa and Mastercard on your window.

                                                          [–]cosmicmeander 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          What was the price comparison like with local cab firms? Black cabs are notoriously expensive.

                                                          [–]NOPR 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                          I was using Addison lee for a while since you can pre-book, it's the same cost as black cabs, which is frankly shocking.

                                                          I tried a local mini-cab service once and it was a disaster. The guy was late, he got lost, then he told me 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. I forget what it cost but I didn't try that again.

                                                          [–]theGiogi 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Did you post the request for the minicab on /pol/?

                                                          [–]cosmicmeander 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Addison Lee are a rip off.
                                                          I've never had that issue with mini-cab drivers over here, always found them reliable (helps having them based around the corner), cheap and as friendly as you want at 5am.

                                                          [–]artgo 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          A lot of the comments here highlight one key thing Uber did that was severely lacking. Reviews instead of advertising as the means of picking one service provider over the other. Compared to hotels, Taxi services got away with being in the phone book - and almost nobody comparing the actual services and reviews.

                                                          I can't imagine picking hotels without actually hearing what customers have to say - vs. the advertising.

                                                          [–]Maverician 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                          I don't get taxis when in the city (live in Blue Mountains), but I have a mate in the north shore who swears by them, simply because he too regularly has taxis being unreliable with orders. They say next available, then takes over an hour. Uber takes maximum 15 mins and you have driver tracker.

                                                          [–]vitaminz1990 48ポイント49ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                          Yeah astroturfing my ass. Uber is literally 100x better than taxis and pretty much anyone who's ever used it agrees with me.

                                                          [–]roadbuzz 38ポイント39ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                          Better for the consumer yes, much worse for the workers though.

                                                          [–]isubird33 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          I don't know. I know a good handful of Uber drivers I've had recently both in Indianapolis and Saint Louis were ex-taxi drivers that switched to Uber because the pay and hours were better. I have a buddy who is a graphic designer and drives on some nights/weekends and says he makes more money through Uber than he does with his other job.

                                                          [–]BosoxH60 13ポイント14ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                          I'd love you to have this conversation with the taxi driver I had in New Orleans a few years ago. He was not exactly raving about the perks of the job other than that he was able to make some money after paying to rent his medallion.

                                                          On the other hand, I have friends who drive for uber whenever they want, and love it.

                                                          [–]roadbuzz 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                          You sound like a uber exec, most über drivers I know have quit shortly after since it just isn't worth it.

                                                          Take a look at /r/uberdrivers their drivers seem to be fed up.

                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                              [–]AnneBancroftsGhost 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              As a Chicagoan, I wouldn't want to totally get rid of being able to flag down a cab on the street. But for times when you need to call for a ride, uber is just such an amazing improvement, though the price is about the same.

                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                [–]soiboughtafarm 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                I 100% believe this even though I have zero evidence. If I hear one more time about poor little uber standing up to the big bad taxi companies that apparently secretly run every municipal government in the world.....

                                                                People realize that Uber is valued at 68 billion right? That's more then Honda. Does a taxi monopoly exist that they could not just outright but* if they wanted to? You know they spend a shit ton on lobbying right?

                                                                Uber is a fine app, and if it's better/cheaper everyone should use it, but please no more poor uber posts.

                                                                *buy

                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                                  [–]cr0ft 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                  They're exploiting people to do the work for them, and making money laughing all the way to the bank. It's a shitty company even in how it operates, the whole outsource all the risk and make money off others methodology that's sailed up is utter bullshit. Employees get benefits as well as work, not so Uber drivers. They'd make more money if they were employees, but of course that would cut into Ubers profits.

                                                                  Hardly surprising they're shady and horrible in other ways also.

                                                                  [–]i_hate_tarantulas 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  Nice sources but the first article is actually in favor of Uber's security practices, praise from a nationally ranked law firm.

                                                                  The second two reflect only an incident of comments by a vp about looking into a journalist's past .

                                                                  None of the articles actually criticize Uber's actual business.

                                                                  *also articles are old. Will need more convincing that Uber is evil/shady

                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (20 返事)

                                                                    [–]swrdfish 44ポイント45ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                    Uber is a great idea run by a bunch of douchebags.

                                                                    [–]thatknoxedguy 260ポイント261ポイント  (81子コメント)

                                                                    Fuck them, they shouldn't be riding with the "cool" corporation image if they aren't even willing to pay the people who are helping them.

                                                                    [–]Cinemaphreak 115ポイント116ポイント  (80子コメント)

                                                                    willing to pay the people who are helping them.

                                                                    You mean like the drivers who reddit basically doesn't give a shit about?

                                                                    [–]Billism 13ポイント14ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                                                    Can you explain?

                                                                    [–]CharlieTheK 54ポイント55ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                                                    Reddit, at least for awhile, hailed Uber as the greatest transportation company ever, and all taxi drivers as the antichrist. Those threads rarely acknowledge the fact that Uber drivers don't make a lot of money and are independent contractors, and the parent company does as little as possible to help them.

                                                                    Kind of counter intuitive for a website that usually celebrates workers rights and is all about the middle class.

                                                                    [–]fobfromgermany 17ポイント18ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                                    You shouldn't generalize so much... Let me ask you this, do you think uber is worse than the medallion system? Because from what I've heard, the medallion system was worse so if we're gonna compare apples to apples then it's an improvement

                                                                    [–]kermityfrog 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    Nobody is arguing that Uber's dispatch and volume control system (via surge), and customer service is not miles better than the taxi system. It's all the other shady corners that they cut and the practice of "ignore bylaws since cities are toothless" that we don't like. We're also concerned with the long term sustainability of Uber - if driverless cars don't come for 30 years instead of 5, and if they are forced to pay drivers more, and if they have to pay more for commercial insurance.

                                                                    If the city can actually dictate to Uber the maximum number of cabs at a certain time of day, then that would effectively replace the intents and purposes of medallions.

                                                                    [–]alphaweiner 24ポイント25ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                    People don't realize that uber doesn't pay insurance for their drivers. Yeah, your passenger is covered for medical expenses if the accident is someone elses fault.

                                                                    If the accident is the uber drivers fault that driver is FUCKED. Their insurance will likely cancel their policy for operating their vehicle commercially without a commercial policy.

                                                                    Does uber know this? Yes.

                                                                    Does Uber make sure its drivers carry commercial policies? No.

                                                                    Uber doesnt even warn its drivers that they probably should.

                                                                    [–]theprinceofkanada 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    And when cities tell them to get commercial insurance for their drivers they just to not operate in that particular city anymore.

                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                      [–]cbmuser 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                      It's still wrong to fake-self-employ your workers. You can't push all the risk and responsibilities onto the worker and at the same time, dictate their work schedule as if they are workers of your company instead of an independant contractor.

                                                                      Either you are working with an independent contractor who gets a decent payment so they can pay for all the additional expenses themselves or you pay them less but actually employ them properly so you are in charge of social security, health insurance, risk insurance and all that jazz.

                                                                      Only taking the advantages from both sides is morally wrong and illegal in most European countries with proper worker protection laws.

                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                          [–]yolo-yoshi 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Doesn't matter, it's still borderline suicidal/idiotic to fuck over the people who can potentially fuck u over.

                                                                          [–]ndevito1 50ポイント51ポイント  (35子コメント)

                                                                          Wait, really? Uber driving is a completely voluntary profession. If people hate it so much there is literally 0 things keeping them tied to it.

                                                                          Edit: If Uber is really so awful of a place to drive for, then why drive for them? I know jobs don't grow on trees but if it's as bad as people make it seem, surely just about anything is better? Uber is nothing without it's drivers. There is nothing keeping you for driving for them if the conditions of your employment aren't agreeable to you. That's my point. You don't even have to "quit" you just simply stop doing it. Pretty much no other job is like that.

                                                                          [–]pikk 70ポイント71ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                          Uber driving is a completely voluntary profession.

                                                                          like literally every profession? Doesn't mean the company is allowed to be shitheads

                                                                          [–]alphaweiner 28ポイント29ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                          Seriously.

                                                                          "Guys uber isnt slavery so you arent allowed to complain about the pay"

                                                                          ...uh no...thats not how this is supposed to work.

                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (22 返事)

                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (16 返事)

                                                                                [–]iCon3000 156ポイント157ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                                                Unfortunately sounds like they could use some motivation. Is there anyone like the "video game lawyer" for tech? Legal action might light that fire.

                                                                                [–]that-freakin-guy 72ポイント73ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                You can probably sue them for misrepresentation or more likely for breach of a unilateral contract. I don't know how worth it it would be unless it were a class action, which in that case would mean minimal payout for everyone involved but the attorney.

                                                                                [–]Derigiberble 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                Unfortunately while Uber apparently doesn't want to uphold their promise to pay for bugs they have no such reservations about paying for lawyers to frustrate any attempt to hold them accountable for anything ever.

                                                                                Name and Shame is probably the most effective way to deal with this, although at this point "Uber is a bunch of slimy fuckwads" is pretty well established.

                                                                                There is nothing surprising about them doing this. If you spend any time hanging around Uber drivers' forums you'll see that "I met the conditions for X offer to the letter and Uber won't pay!" is a very common complaint, and if you follow their dealings with cities you will likewise see that they break promises and deals whenever it is convenient for them to do so. Uber is a very arrogant company in a way that tends to alienate potential supporters.

                                                                                [–]xECK29x 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                Thats basically what the EFF is for

                                                                                [–]good4y0u 19ポイント20ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                                sigh entire reason I'm applying to law schools after my cs degree /now

                                                                                [–]that-freakin-guy 66ポイント67ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                                If you love life, don't. Law school is where people's dreams go to die. I just spent spring break in the library on my birthday catching up on outlines and closing statements for trial ad.

                                                                                It's not worth it unless you absolutely love the law. I love it, but fuck I get why everyone tried to talk me out of it when I was applying. Second hardest only to medical school.

                                                                                [–]Rostin 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                I'm sure law school is tough, but find a better example than working during spring break. Unless you decide to become a public school teacher, this is just a foretaste of working life.

                                                                                [–]blbd 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                Best of all now you don't even get paid well for the trouble.

                                                                                [–]that-freakin-guy 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                Debatable. Not everyone goes into law school without job prospects. Going to a T10 is pretty much a guarantee for large firm placement. Depends on what field you go into also. IP law isn't very saturated. PI and entertainment is. There are a lot of factors at play. Going into law for public interest or criminal defense screws for paychecks but is amazing for community service. There are a lot of factors to think about.

                                                                                [–]diemunkiesdie 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                IP law isn't very saturated

                                                                                Depends where you are practicing and if you want to do Patents or if you want to do Copyright/Trademark. You can't go 10 feet without finding a Copyright/Trademark attorney in LA, but in Atlanta anyone who says IP means patents and laughs in your face when you talk about Copyright/Trademark.

                                                                                [–]Toddsci 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                To be fair people who get into T10 law schools tend to have a LOT of options open to them, the problem is squarly concentrated on the lower end of the law schools.

                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                  [–]TooMuchToSayMan 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                  Don't we have an oversupply of lawyers?

                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                                      [–]Azonata 112ポイント113ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                      This is why you never tell them all the bugs.

                                                                                      [–]crvc 38ポイント39ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                      no one does :^)

                                                                                      [–]rom211 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                      How do you know other developers aren't resolving the bug you tucked away. It seems like unless there was an organized effort people would overlap.

                                                                                      [–]Toddsci 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                      I suspect uber was hoping people would rush to claim the prize for each bug.

                                                                                      [–]EmperorOfCanada 91ポイント92ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                      One simple problem with bug bounties is that it makes specific developers look very bad. In the right scenario the company will look at this as both an opportunity to improve their security and for their development team to learn some cool stuff.

                                                                                      But in many organizations there is a cutthroat nature where you must strictly control information and never ever give any ammunition to your competitors (within the organization). This sort of bug bounty is uncontrolled information and it makes people look bad. This can be career disaster.

                                                                                      Seeing that the core of uber's business model is the concept of the gig economy; who here thinks that uber is going to be terribly loyal to their employees if they can potentially replace them with something better?

                                                                                      This sort of bounty can be a holy terror for people inside the organization. So they will use the tool they do have which is information control. If they can dismiss bugs, or otherwise classify them in ways as to make it appear on the reports that they were no big thing then their asses are covered, they will probably still fix most of the bugs but it is the reports that are critical.

                                                                                      The problem is that any payouts will have to match the severity of the bugs that go on the reports. They can't very well pay out the top prizes and then report that there were no significant bugs found. Thus they will dismiss the bugs and not pay out what they don't have to. The horrible problem is things like this very forum where people will expose their problems even more publicly.

                                                                                      Loss of information control is a organization man's worst nightmare.

                                                                                      [–]tryx 33ポイント34ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                      If Google and Facebook can do it, so can Uber. And in a large engineering organization, it is very rare for an issue to be attributed to a specific person for exactly the reasons you mentioned. In a well run organization, if failures happen, they are failures of process and failures of organization. If a bug is in production, it must have passed through several hands a long the way and all the safety measures have failed so it's more interesting to know how and why that happened than to throw blame around.

                                                                                      [–]ne0phyte 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                      This. If a single dev can be solely responsible for a failure on a live production system then the whole development cycle is a failure.

                                                                                      I can see how it sucks to be the one to introduce a security problem, but if 2+ people worked on and reviewed the code there is no single dev who is solely responsible. And if they didn't review and test security critical code then management is to blame since bugs happen no matter how experienced a developer might be.

                                                                                      [–]negative_epsilon 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      Also no developer working on a critical system for more than a few years hasn't accidentally introduced a security hole. If you haven't, that just means you're working too far in your comfort zone.

                                                                                      No good tech company shames a developer for a mistake.

                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                                        [–]morginzez 125ポイント126ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                                        Well, you know what to do. Find another hole, exploit it and then ask for money.

                                                                                        [–]EmperorOfCanada 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                        Or just start finding holes and putting the results in the darkest corners of the internet. Not just as you find them but one an day for as long as you can.

                                                                                        [–]Jonathan_the_Nerd 36ポイント37ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                        Better to start posting them on a full-disclosure forum. You're still reporting the bugs to Uber, so it's ethical (sort of). But you're also reporting them to their enemies. They'll have to scramble to fix the bugs before they're exploited.

                                                                                        [–]n1nj4_v5_p1r4t3 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                        You're still reporting the bugs to Uber

                                                                                        Why on earth would you do that now?

                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                          [–]taimoor2 72ポイント73ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                          I am no fancy lawyer from one of those big cities but don't do this. It's illegal.

                                                                                          [–]straylit 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                          But isn't it also illegal to ask people to find exploits with promise of pay and not actually pay them?

                                                                                          [–]Laslight_Hanthem 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                          Yes, it is. But this would be like someone refused to pay you for mowing his lawn so you broke into his house at night and held him at gunpoint demanding the money.

                                                                                          [–]VoiceOfRonHoward 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          Obviously it shouldn't be condoned to engage in unlawful activity out of spite. But it is a valid commentary on the risks of alienating the hacker culture. If someone were self-serving enough to report bugs to Uber purely for the money, they won't stop being self-serving when Uber takes the money away. They'll just serve themselves to Uber's detriment instead.

                                                                                          [–]Jazzy_Josh 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          That's what lawsuits are for.

                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                [–]MoronTheMoron 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                I'm all for people getting money for work, but one of those tweets is just pointing out admin panel urls.

                                                                                                Was that in the original scope?

                                                                                                Now something like my version of admin panel has not been patched and is vulnerable to X attack makes sense to me.

                                                                                                [–]SpeedGeek 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                Literally just reporting internet accessible admin pages, but no actual vulnerability. Seems they are trying to get money on a technicality rather than what was actually intended (and thus the "scope change").

                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                  [–]usesunblock 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                  I used to work there. Place is a shit show and they offshored every position they could to Manila. That company can go to hell once Google gets their own taxi service running. FUCK UBER.

                                                                                                  [–]AlgoFl4sh 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                  Can you please describe what your position was (if possible) and what makes it a shitshow?

                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                    [–]SciNZ 38ポイント39ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    Yeah, pissing off hackers will end well for them.

                                                                                                    [–]_amooks_eerf 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    Hmm.... this seems like a smart thing to do. Get a bunch of people to find security vulnerabilities and then proceed to fuck them over. What could possiblay go wrong.

                                                                                                    [–]Stalked_Like_Corn 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                    I found bugs in PayPal security (that still exists) but I never trusted these damned bug bounty programs so I never went through with disclosing because they don't pay or come up with a dollar amount until you tell them it is what you found.

                                                                                                    They have ranges from $200-$1000 but, yeah, they could just say "It's working as intended", close it, I get nada.

                                                                                                    [–]ZSR5 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    Should try something like Synack, where they are responsible for the bounty program rather then the company you are investigating. https://www.synack.com/red-team/

                                                                                                    [–]ajcadoo 29ポイント30ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                                    The drivers have been dealing with this for years. Just Uber being Uber. Uber's bubble is popping everyone. You should examine how tumultuous their biggest market is in Los Angeles. 2016 could spell the end to Uber!

                                                                                                    [–]DoorFrame 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                    What's happening in Los Angeles?

                                                                                                    [–]odiezilla 36ポイント37ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                    They are doing anything and everything to keep unhappy drivers on the road.

                                                                                                    Drivers here are so rankled by the horrific .93/mile rates that they resorted to simply logging off, which slowly drives the surge rates up because people refuse to stop using Uber in this market, no matter the rate.

                                                                                                    In turn, Uber has enacted these 'earn X dollars bonus for completing X rides' offers, which force drivers to stay online and accept at least 90% of incoming pings, and that serves to eradicate surge by ensuring there's an overabundance of drivers logged in at all hours.

                                                                                                    It's a vicious environment because driving in LA is very stressful(worst traffic in the country) and expensive (no cheap gas in this state), and getting across the city for a "simple 5-7 mile drive" could take you an hour in the worst situations, so driving for the minimum fare is patently ludicrous. You will lose money on every single ride you do at .93/mile, without exception. Soooooo... manipulating surge was the only way it made any sense to drive for Uber, but now that's been largely neutralized by the bonuses(for now.)

                                                                                                    All that said, the truth of the matter is that riders want cheap rides and Uber does too. It makes no difference to Uber what a ride costs; they simply want ride volume high st all times since they collect 20/25/28% of every ride. And riders don't really want to stop and think about what the financial and moral ramifications of a ride from Downtown LA to Santa Monica at 4pm costing $13 means to the individual providing the service. The ones taking it in the rear throughout all this are the drivers, because a fair living wage and cheap rides are apparently unable to co-exist in this market, and for the most part drivers are largely looked at as sub-humans who should be grateful to even have a gig at $5-8/hr after expenses. How dare they complain about not making any real money? Go get another job, losers!

                                                                                                    Source: 3yr former full-time Uber and Lyft driver with a 4.9 rating over thousands of rides.

                                                                                                    [–]jlpoole 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                    Your analysis was fascinating. The company that controls the market does so cannibalizing its work force and sustaining itself on new employees who think they have an opportunity to make money.

                                                                                                    Charles Ponzi economics.

                                                                                                    [–]srock2012 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    I almost applied and got far enough to give them an email. The email was spammed 2-5 times a week with info on how to meet with a orientation group. No company that wants ME that badly is one I want to work for...they shouldn't want me at all preferably...

                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                            [–]dulllemon 29ポイント30ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                                            Neither if you deserve a payout. Your own screenshot shows that your bug was not a security risk if the javascript was not being executed. @meals went for some pathetic SEO microsites instead of the core uber system that was obviously meant to be the target of the bounty.

                                                                                                            [–]algo 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                            Don't see any problem with them removing microsites from the scope, all of those issues shown can be fixed in an hour and are not critical either. I wouldn't call them bugs either.

                                                                                                            [–]srmarmalade 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                            I think it's fine to remove them from scope, however they should still honour genuine reports made while they were still in scope.

                                                                                                            [–]Rxef3RxeX92QCNZ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                            We have adjusted the scope. Pray we do not adjust it further

                                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                              [–]DFWPunk 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              Talk to an Uber driver about how often they don't actually get the "surge pricing" reflected in their split.

                                                                                                              We can all rail on taxis as much as we want, but Uber does some shady shit.

                                                                                                              [–]______DEADPOOL______ 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                              I hear you can make good money with these things on non-uber market.

                                                                                                              [–]Uberzwerg 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              "You didn't like my white hat? Let me show you the black one!"

                                                                                                              [–]BlackBoxInquiry 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              It's just another reason I am not driving for them anymore.

                                                                                                              Their latest "sham" was the fares - example:

                                                                                                              Fare total was $41.37. Looking at my earnings this trip (and many others for 3 weeks straight) would come out lower, in this instance: $28.37 - then the additional kick in the teeth is they took their fees and 20% as if it were the $41.37, leaving me with basically next to nothing.

                                                                                                              This happened with every fare for 3 weeks straight. My emails and attempts at contacting them were ignored, except one where they told me that it was correct.

                                                                                                              Proved I was getting fleeced. Even going as far for screen grabs and even asking customers for screen grabs over the last week of what they were charged- explaining why.

                                                                                                              Ubers response?

                                                                                                              "There is no problem."

                                                                                                              My solution, stop driving for them.

                                                                                                              Sick of these a-holes. Little to no driver support, all is email and when they have their "fly by night" prop ups for questions, the staff is nice, but essentially useless.

                                                                                                              @&$! You "Uber".

                                                                                                              [–]Bob_0119 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              Unfortunately that's par for the course with Uber. Remember, these are the guys who created a taxi service, recruited drivers like a taxi service, marketed themselves like a taxi service, and made no secret they were competing directly against the taxicab industry.

                                                                                                              Except, they weren't following any of the same laws governing taxi companies, didn't have nearly the same overhead as a taxi company, weren't vetting their drivers nearly as carefully as a taxi company, weren't carrying the correct insurance for providing taxi services and when challenged by state and local regulators or sued by victims of their negligence they simply changed their message to "We're not a taxi service. We're just a software company"

                                                                                                              They have billions of dollars in venture capital money and figure they can sue their way out of any situation. They have a small army of high priced lawyers so good luck suing them. Many have tried, most have failed.

                                                                                                              [–]Galadron 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              Considering that uber is already in the spotlight for questionable business practises, it really seems like they're going out of the way to really piss people off.

                                                                                                              [–]Augeria 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              Uber has always been a bunch of scumbags.

                                                                                                              [–]Mrs_Brisby 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              It would be a real shame if these programmers getting shafted created a public list of all known exploits and shared it all over the web.

                                                                                                              Now, I'm not advocating this... but... you know... it would be just awful if it happened... just awful....

                                                                                                              [–]Zencyde 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              Or.. you can maliciously use the bugs so they can see what happens when you fork a stranger in the alps.

                                                                                                              [–]JamesBonfan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              I'll just use a Lyft instead...

                                                                                                              [–]Cinemaphreak 36ポイント37ポイント  (54子コメント)

                                                                                                              This is why a I love reddit.

                                                                                                              Uber is giving everyone low cost transpo but is basically making indentured servants out of their drivers? Fuck those losers, gimme my cheap rides!

                                                                                                              Uber is now whelching on paying me for finding tech issues? Uber's now worse than Hitler!

                                                                                                              [–]laaanis 45ポイント46ポイント  (46子コメント)

                                                                                                              What's all this about it being bad for the drivers? I've only used an uber taxi once so please correct me if I'm wrong, but my driver was singing uber's praises and telling me how much better an employer they were than his previous minicab company.

                                                                                                              [–]KSKaleido 66ポイント67ポイント  (43子コメント)

                                                                                                              I drove for Uber for 3 months starting in November, until the beginning of last month. I'll try to explain.

                                                                                                              When I started, I would've sang praise for Uber as well. I was getting paid reasonably well for the amount of work I was doing, and it was helping bridge the gap while I was unemployed. It was really nice. If you had asked me then, I would've said Uber is great.

                                                                                                              In December, they raised the percentage they take from every fare to 25% (up from 20). That doesn't sound like much, but it REALLY affected my bottom line, especially on longer trips and bigger payouts. In January, they tanked the rates from $1/mile to $0.85 a mile. Again, that doesn't seem like much, but when you add up the bigger cut they were taking with the much lower mileage payout, there were nights where I literally lost money driving for them. So I stopped driving and started doing something else. It wasn't worth it.

                                                                                                              It's a fucking racket. They're basically racing to the bottom to show an artificial growth for their IPO while their upper management cashes in as much money as they can. They're purposefully nosediving a great idea to make quick money on the backs of the people that made their service possible.

                                                                                                              I've been talking to a lot of drivers since I started, and I feel the worst for the ones that have been with that company for a long time. Apparently, drivers 2 years ago used to make a VERY decent wage. You can check out /r/uberdrivers to see the damage that has been wrought. The drivers that offer you bottled water and candy are all but gone, replaced by unskilled idiots trying to pay off a car lease funded through Uber that is a negative proposition in every respect if you can do basic math. Sorry about the Gawker link but it's the first one I found and I don't care to look harder.

                                                                                                              Uber is going to kill themselves, and they know it. They just don't care. They're rolling in VC money and it doesn't even matter, there's no accountability for shit like that.

                                                                                                              [–]ACSlater 22ポイント23ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                                                              Every cab company reading your post

                                                                                                              [–]KSKaleido 22ポイント23ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                                                              lmao

                                                                                                              I mean, they shouldn't be, though. Ride sharing is here to stay. Uber will go under, but it will be supplanted by 14 other companies doing the same thing that will treat their drivers better.

                                                                                                              The fact that most cab companies haven't even managed to get an app out to market in the ~5+ years Uber has been taking over is fucking pathetic. Innovate or die, that's the capitalist way. Cab companies are still really fucked if they continue down the trajectory they're on, they just won't be beaten by Uber. Companies like Via (which most haven't heard of yet but are coming up) will take over the market where Uber has failed. Cabs are still obsolete in a post-smartphone, post-app-driven rideshare world lol

                                                                                                              [–]Skuwee 11ポイント12ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                                                              Uber won't go out of business, dude...

                                                                                                              They've raised $11B in capital ($1B from Google, more than $100M from Microsoft), are working on their own AI for driverless vehicles, and will also pay Tesla or Google for self-driving software if they can't figure it out.

                                                                                                              They don't give a damn about their drivers because in just a few short years, they won't be needing drivers. Treating drivers well is a good short-term strategy (hence why they did it in the beginning), but weirdly enough doesn't benefit them at all in the long run.

                                                                                                              [–]KSKaleido 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                              Assuming self-driving cars will come to market before they bottom out their own value is the critical error they're making, though. Self-driving cars still have SO many hurdles to jump before they can hit mass-market. Paying their drivers less than minimum wage now will kill their business long before they can roll out that technology.

                                                                                                              [–]alphanovember 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              There is absolutely no way driveless cars will be ready before they finish tanking as a company.

                                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                                                                                [–]jininjin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                Someone needs to make a open source decentralized cab system.

                                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                                                  [–]yaix 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                                                  they take from every fare to 25%

                                                                                                                  Whaa... I thought they'd take maybe 5% or so. A quarter of the income, without actually doing anything seems like a lot.

                                                                                                                  [–]KSKaleido 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                  Yea, it's a lot. They also take a "safe ride fee" which is almost $2 a ride that drivers don't see, on top of that insane percentage.

                                                                                                                  [–]MINIMAN10000 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                  "to recoup the costs of running its background checks and providing 24/7 support to its riders."

                                                                                                                  Wow that is absolutely ridiculous.

                                                                                                                  Considering you have to pay for everything I believe it is fair they get around 10% cut and $0 tacked on.

                                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                                                    [–]MisanthropeX 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                    Uber is going to kill themselves, and they know it. They just don't care. They're rolling in VC money and it doesn't even matter, there's no accountability for shit like that.

                                                                                                                    Uber is holding out until driverless cars enter the market. It's all about getting market share now and then they can cut their sole remaining expense (drivers) when the technology matures. They're playing the long con.

                                                                                                                    [–]IneedtoBmyLonsomeTs 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                    That doesn't work if they don't make it to driverless cars. If they are treating their drivers as bad as people in this thread are saying people won't drive for them. If they don't have drivers it will take too long to get an uber, making people look for alternative ride sharing apps. They could end up not being the big name in ride sharing apps long before driverless cars (which still don't have a definite release date).

                                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                                      [–]JBBdude 7ポイント8ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                                                      You just demonstrated the system working. As wages dropped, less drivers were willing to work for that money. Clearly Uber is happy with the numbers, or they'd revert back or not have increased their cut. I'm sure they have a few accountants and economists on hand calculating optimum rates to maximize customers and revenue while minimizing expenses... both of which are more fluid and complex with their demand pricing and on-demand service models.

                                                                                                                      [–]KSKaleido 16ポイント17ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Clearly Uber is happy with the numbers, or they'd revert back or not have increased their cut

                                                                                                                      That's where you're wrong, though. Again, I'm speaking as someone who knows how this works because I did it. After they cut rates, they hemorrhaged drivers massively, so they enacted "guaranteed rates". To put it simply, you drive during certain hours and they pay you an hourly rate. That was around the time I quit driving, but for the 2 weeks I drove on guarantees, they lost their ASS on me. I was making about ~$5-10/hr and they were guaranteeing $25. Even after their cut, they were losing their ASS paying me to keep driving in my market. Now, they've enacted a bonus where if you do 75 rides, you get $500 extra. That was last week, this week they increased that to 100 rides, because too many people hit the 75 and they were losing their ass once again. They're desperately trying to keep people on the road while trying to find loopholes to not pay them a reasonable wage. It's actually insane.

                                                                                                                      There's some markets where it's completely fucked, like Detroit. They set the wage at $0.30 a mile in Detroit in January. That's insane. If you don't want to do the math, it costs basically twice that to operate your car, per mile. People were literally paying to drive Uber. That whole market is fucked now, but luckily no one gives a shit about Detroit so it doesn't matter if they have a functional Uber service.

                                                                                                                      Point is, they're losing money left and right trying to bottom out these rates, and it's not sustainable.

                                                                                                                      Even from a customer perspective, everyone I, and many other drivers have spoken to, would much rather pay slightly more for their drivers to make a decent amount, especially because there's no option to tip in the Uber app. Uber was already mch cheaper than cabs when they were paying their drivers well. No one is hopping on Uber because it's a few cents even cheaper now at the cost of the quality of service they used to get...

                                                                                                                      [–]DoorFrame 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                      If Lyft is a few dollars cheaper, people will switch to Lyft.

                                                                                                                      80% of a few "cents" per ride isn't going to make a big difference to drivers, will it?

                                                                                                                      [–]KSKaleido 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Lyft is already cheaper, but at least they offer the option to tip and offer a better bonus structure for their consistent drivers. Uber has marketing force behind them (for now) but Lyft is chasing the dragon. They keep trying to undercut Uber. That isn't going to be the thing that makes a ridesharing service succeed anymore. At some point, people are just going to pay a couple bucks extra for much better service and consistency.

                                                                                                                      [–]philh 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Even from a customer perspective, everyone I, and many other drivers have spoken to, would much rather pay slightly more for their drivers to make a decent amount

                                                                                                                      If you want a representative sample, I feel like you should probably also speak to some non-drivers.

                                                                                                                      I imagine waiters and ex-waiters don't have the same tipping patterns as non-waiters.

                                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                                                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (127 返事)