全 36 件のコメント

[–]ArchwingerRed Beret 4ポイント5ポイント  (27子コメント)

Let me know if you figure this one out.

I've spent 8 years with my wife, plus several more prior to our marriage dating and living together. Our sex life has always been crap, but like a loser, I genuinely believed once we got married, we'd be closer and that would work itself out.

There was this moment, not too long after stumbling across The Red Pill, that I realized that I really hate my wife. She's not a bad person and not really deserving of hate -- I'd been a horrible leader and a poor example of a man from day one, and she'd really never been sexually attracted to me (yet she married me anyway - probably because she didn't know any better either).

And I just felt cheated. I'd been with this woman for years, putting so much into our life together, and all I wanted -- ALL I wanted -- was to have a normal physical relationship with my wife. Every other husband and wife has sex, and there I'd been for years, subsisting on once-a-month lazy-starfish duty-sex -- sometimes even less frequently than that. And I was just mad. That was years and years during which I was supposed to have a normal sexual relationship with a loving woman who wants me. Years she took from me that I'll never get back. Years that I felt sad, worthless, angry, confused.

So there was this day when I just realized how much I absolutely resent my wife. And how trapped I was. Because there's no out for me. Not unless I want to lose my daughter, my home, the majority of my assets, and write my wife a check every month. She has no incentive to improve, because I'm the one who stands to lose if she decides one day to cash out of the marriage. She knows I'm not going anywhere. Hate is an emotion that stems from fear -- when you're in a situation where you just don't know how to win. How to get what you want. How to overcome it. When there's nothing you can do.

Now I'm fit, proactive, confident, aloof, involved in lots of shit, and our relationship is better (though still far from ideal). I'm even happy. But I still resent my wife. I know it's my fault for letting this shit get away from me, not really her fault, but it's still there, bubbling just below the surface. I haven't quite figured out how to let this go yet. Maybe it's always there and you just learn to hide it.

[–]irateMDRed Beret 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe enough shit has happened and enough resentment has built up that some of it will linger forever.
 
The analogy is the addict who fuck up his relationships. When he finally gets sober after a decade, does he forget all the bad shit that happened between him and the people he loves?
 
Some recovering addicts move away from their home towns because too much shit has happened. The people he knew when he was using are a constant reminder of his failures and of the shitty things that happened between them. Some people just need to hit the reset button and start fresh. This is a decision that should be made slowly and deliberately.
 
Other addicts seem to be able to heal those old relationships when they get sober, but it takes years.
 
/r/TheRedPill and /r/femalehate probably aren't the best places to hang out if you're looking to get past the resentment.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would also avoid MGTOW videos, and Patrice O'Neil to get over the resentment.

[–]Scurvemuch 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here is where the issue is for you :

You need to let go.

You need to figure out what makes you happy.

Losing your assets sucks. Loosing your home sucks ass. Loosing your daughter? That would suck but I am not sure how a great guy would loose his daughter unless she in at an age where mom can brainwash her, in which case, being divorced or being together probably wouldnt change much.

At the end of the day... whats your happiness worth to you? She still has all the cards if she wants to leave, so all you are doing, unless you are doing it with happiness, is putting more and more in the "sunk cost" of your relationship.

It helped me a lot to sit down with a lawyer and figure out my costs and bills etc etc if I got divorced. Sat down with a CPA as well. It would suck, and in my case its not as bad as with being married over a decade, but the end result is, I am willing to nuke it on a whim. This gives me great peace, and the ability to not let my anger LAST.

[–]hidden3216[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The last two paragraphs are what I struggle with. the first of the year, I wrote down a list of what I need in my marriage to be happy. Time for hobbies/exercise/friends, fix financial problems (she was out of control and shopping us into oblivion), good sex at least 1/week. I thought if I quantify it, I can make a plan to get there. The problem, I realized this weekend, I have those items pretty much taken care of. Due to this residual resentment and anger, I am having a very hard time moving on. Maybe it will just keep bubbling below the surface and in time I will work through it.

[–]stonepimpletilistsRed Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

so why don't you leave?

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I ask these things more as introspection. No need to answer. We each answer differently but I do this to challenge perceptions. No offense meant.

I haven't quite figured out how to let this go yet. Maybe it's always there and you just learn to hide it.

This is the state of things right now.

It is not so terrible. You know this because you are already living through it.

So why do so angry? Why let it control you?

[–]stonepimpletilistsRed Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a feeling, and I'd take it over a life of quiet desperation anyday. Imagine the alternative to resenting her. Some kind of happiness that is just out of your reach, that you don't know exists, and have no idea how to get there.

I made the argument when jack10 and I were having a heated disagreement... Men have been trained to abhor conflict, but lets face it, 99% of our history it's the only thing that's made us grow.

I know when I was getting panic attacks under control, the big thing that resonated from Dr. Niceguy getting me out of work every week was:

Soon as you start thinking of these things as a 'what is wrong with me?', you end up creating a feedback loop which harms you. If you reframe them as 'considering the stimulus, this is a completely normal reaction'. Same input, same output, the only difference is what going on in the black box in between the two. The latter is demonstrably easier to deal with, learn from, and take action with.

And this is where I get full fucking nerd

Just play on man.

That resentment? It'll tap you on the shoulder now and again, when you do some nu-male shit, reminding you of why you won't, no matter how tempting. Everytime you think of her as your logical, rational and self sacraficing equal, slapping sense into you.

I'd say keep it, own it. Like the guy who got beat up every day by his dad, and promised himself that his son would never get a hand raised to him. It's a lesson that the teacher gets no praise for, but it's a damned good lesson nonetheless

[–]IASGame -1ポイント0ポイント  (10子コメント)

Archwinger, given your situation, have you considered the "over60 / UCad" type of marriage? Not out of revenge, but to get more of what you want in life.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Just FYI, I don't judge others choices, but I don't recommend it.

[–]stonepimpletilistsRed Beret 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Lol, this conversation again.

FT record, over 60 does not consider his life choices an aspirational model

[–]over60_stupid_loner 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

aspirational, that's when u/Scurvemuch puts a tube in my throat?

[–]Scurvemuch 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'll get a cute nurse to suction you first.

No, not that way.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Teaser..

[–]Scurvemuch 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

actually it took me a second to realize what I wrote at first, hence the " no not that way"

getting suctioned in a hospital is not fun.

[–]stonepimpletilistsRed Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is the gayest shit ever.

And this is coming from a guy who posted a link to a Star Trek video ITT

[–]IASGame -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, I remember you stating it was a last resort. But it looks like Archwinger may be in such a situation. He would need to know how to do it covertly.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He would need to know how to do it covertly.

No doubt that he has more nifty tools in his tool box than I ever did.

I believe if he wanted to, it would already be.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

I will cosign this. Thanks Arch. This is indeed the LONG game.

Part of the resentment is necessary because of Rollo's Cardinal Rule of Relationships: He who can walk away first, and cares the least, has all the power. All of the other approaches for a man asserting himself in a relationship that were used through all of human history have been closed off by feminism, society, and recent mangina traditions except one- the Cardinal rule of relationships.

Unfortunately, learning to care LESS is the only way to take the wheel from a ball busting First Officer in modern relationships. Literally nothing else we have tried works. All of the Levels of Dread take you further from your wife's frame of influence and develops your frame as your own separate and distinct from hers.

The problem is, when you care less, you are suddenly the more "valuable" person in the relationship according to irrational woman-think. So your wife suddenly, out of the fucking clear blue sky, starts to treat you well.

You learn very quickly that the more dismissive you are the better your wife becomes. The ruder, the more sexually aggressive, the more you treat her like a bratty teenager, the more you put her down, the more you behave LESS like you love and care for her, the more she seemingly cares about you.

The question is really: How do you turn off the derisive dismissals at EXACTLY the right time so you have the needed balance of Alpha and Beta?

AKA: Dance Monkey Dance. Perform for my amusement and you may be rewarded with the most august and precious moistness emanating from your Goddess- she of the golden uterus, the holy egg bearer and precious snowflake.

Sure, no resentment. None whatsoever. When you "need" your woman, she will not be found. She will not have sex with you. She will not help or provide reassurance. She will Shit Test, complain, nag, bitch, threaten, act with extreme cruelty, and take great delight in asserting her power by torturing you and then denying sex. When you "don't need" your woman, she is an annoyance, hanging around and supporting whatever you do and of course, she is always ready to have sex- but only when you don't need her, or even really want her because, you know, if you really show your desire then her hypergamy triggers start up....this guy is all over me, obviously I am more valuable than him..... and the whole process starts all over again.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

So, restating this for my simple brain, and for your comment:

Therefore, the anger should never leave you, completely. Lest you lose value and your woman gain power over the relationship.

The anger stage is the exaggerated beginning of what will be a new awareness. To take comfort in the discomfort, for life.

Again, the anger stage will get less intense, but it should not go away.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Again, the anger stage will get less intense, but it should not go away.

hmmm.. interesting perspective. This bears thought.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Reversing my own thoughts for discussion....

Since anger is generally a negative emotion. Rather then FEELING the anger for life:

*Remembering the causes of the anger.

*Then learning from, and implementing the lessons that were presented, and that caused that anger; while

*Learning to live without that negative feeling of anger.

*This could be a more Stoic and higher and mentally healthy goal.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes. This I understand.

The hard part is when, after a time, the woman does not follow along. Sometimes leadership isn't the only solution. You can only lead so far.

I haven't reached that point yet, but the process demands I consider it.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

the hard part is when, after a time, the woman does not follow along

She will or will not, it is her choice always.

The anger stage is internally about you. Since you cannot control her, the anger is really about ourselves. She is just a symbol of our own failings; even if she is the lowest quality woman in the world.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Right. Ok. So indulge me a second.

Is anger justified or not?

We can't have it both ways. we can't say on one hand that anger is justified and then say get over it. Someone said that it hurts a man sense of justice. I'd could agree to this, because it fits our notion of the battlefield where justice was given out swiftly and fairly...well maybe not so fairly but it was swift and accurate. No equivocation.

But is it justice or revenge we are looking for?

It may be a small thing but justifying it is a far cry greater then admitting it happens. I don't think it's justified, especially if, as bad captains, we had a hand in it. It would be more accurate to say it's valid.

We are wallowing in anger. This is not acknowledging the anger is there or has been there....say what you will about remembering the feeling, the sources and causes...then using it to consider the worst possible outcome then becoming used to that idea -- blah blah blah, the fact is we are wallowing here. we have never left it behind as a memory but bringing it back up and reliving the trauma.

Anger and frustration hurt us more than the things we’re annoyed about hurt us. -Marcus Aurelius

[–]over60_stupid_loner 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good Point. I think Marcus Aurelius had a better handle on it than me.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seneca as well. He said:

Our anger invariably lasts longer than the damage done to us.” What fools we are, therefore, when we allow our tranquility to be disrupted by minor things.

The thing we must not forget though is that the Stoics considered transgressions to be incidental or could be. What they never considered is that this was in a persons' nature. AWALT. This is way our anger is very much closer to revenge, or the desire for it.

It's hard to cultivate a Stoic response and attitude when the transgressions are fundamental to the trangessor's makeup.

Still, existing with anger is not any way helpful.

Thank you for this.

[–]over60_stupid_loner 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are blaming her for your failures. You anger could continue forever if you do not reconcile understand and accept the cause.

You made mistakes, for whatever reason, doesn't matter now, in the past. You will be angry until you act on changing you and quit blaming her and talking about it and making it worse. If you change yourself, over the coming years you will can get better.

[–]IASGame 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is dangerous to listen to your sister on stuff like that. Don't go from having your wife as your MPO to having your sister (or any other person, even some MRP guy here). It needs to be your own.

 

Your sister, as a woman, even if she thinks she has your best interests in mind (which you can't be sure) could have some ulterior motives that even she doesn't know about.

 

Riddle me this: don't you think it is puzzling that, if she wanted things to improve for you, she didn't say anything until you did it for yourself? And now that you are improving stuff, she says something and that happens to destabilize you?

[–]hidden3216[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe she never said anything out of respect. Keeping out of my business. When I saw her this week, it was the first time since Christmas. She could see I had lost weight, and that I was getting the sparkle back in my eye. She asked what was up, so I said just a little to explain the changes. She was trying to be supportive of my resolve to change. She only said a couple lines about how much change was needed that clearly had been weighing on her. She also has similar issues, in reverse. Her husband does not respect her, and she does not push for it, within wifely roles. I think this always made it so she wouldn't think she could say anything, kind of hypocritical.

[–]cholomiteBP Downvote Magnet 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you feed a kid ice cream and do their homework for them and they grow up to be fat and stupid, are you going to be mad at the little kid for not stopping you from feeding them ice cream and doing their school work?

Accept that your wife doesn't have your best interests in mind. No one's wife or girlfriend does. They take whatever you will give them and ask for more. It's up to you to say no and enforce boundries. It's not your wife's fault you were too weak to do that before. Your wife isn't your "team mate", she is more like an employee doing the least amount of work to avoid getting fired. AWALT. If you think you'll find a better woman who will selflessly give you everything with nothing in return, I'd love to sell you some real estate on the moon.

[–]PemBaylissRed Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah. I second Arch's comment. Let me know if you get this figured out. These are wrongs wives have done to their men that cannot be righted. These wives did their husbands wrong and they got away with it.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I have to conclude Arch put his finger on why men have such a hard time getting past this. It offends the man's sense of justice. A woman has done him wrong, she got away with it and there's no way to make it right. He won't ever be compensated for his loss. It's time and money -- it's a big chunk of his life -- that's just gone and it cannot be recouped. And the married man with kids is trapped. He can't leave and try to find another woman. He'll lose everything if he does. He'll destroy his children's lives. Maybe his wife could live with that, but he can't. So he'll stay, and make the best of it, but resent the hell out of the lack of fairness and justice.

TL:DR: It ain't fair, and that can't be fixed.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like others I spent a lot of time here. I practice martial arts heavily...and I mean like 3-4 hours a day. My focus is very self defense and rooted in old traditions...meaning the method of training. Now what I mean here is that there is a lot of introspection. I spend a fair amount of time considering my motivations, my demeanor,...and things like if I can break this man's arm so easily how then can I prevent the fight at all?

Fact is you need to get passed the anger fast. Otherwise it'll remain and eat you alive. To compare this to self defense (because it's easy for me). The TactiCool Cowboys out there are bad press because they react out of emotion. They ignore the realities of the world we live in today. True self defense does not. It reminds us that we are the enemy. Our emotions try to control us. IF you let anger enter into your mind while defending yourself you will end up in bad way. Conversely letting it control you while you are building yourself up won't end well either.

Here's something I wrote about maybe it will help maybe it won't. But....you really need to look inwards. Find strength and solitude within the inner citadel you construct within your mind.

We all felt cheated. We all have been to a degree. Sure it's our leadership but honestly it's more then that. Why am I working so hard for sex when she doesn't have to do shit for the benefits of a marriage? My wife has commented several times, and even more recently about a month or two ago (and happily I might add) that she is glad she doesn't have to have sex if she doesn't want to like women did in the 40s and 50s. Just think about that. How fucked up is that? Am I allowed to say...well I am glad I don't have to have a conversation when I don't want? Pay the bills when I don't want?

It may be true that feminism has destroyed the idea of what masculine and feminine is...I'd argue that it's confused it for a great many people, but the difference is that men can rise above. Women are too confused (at best) what the world is really like. They are getting all the wrong signals, the most powerful one is from the man they love/married. So...take the higher ground. Being a man means you see the challenge and rise above it because we can rise above it. We already have proof that women need us to to do that. Alone they can't, or are unwilling to. That's not the point, the point is that men can rise above.

I suggest you invest in yourself. Heavily. I don't mean money I mean time.

[–]Griever114 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, when you are feeling the anger take you... lift. The same rules apply if you are still new to frame/dealing with your wife. LIFT.

The anger phase is not really at her. The anger phase is realizing all of the wasted time you spent being a beta bitch.

It will take time to pass. Once you get past it, you will realize how much easier things become.

Instead of taking the anger with you and having it fuck with you. USE IT. Go and take that shit out in the Iron Temple.

Once you get past your anger at yourself, it will fall into place and you will realize.

AWALT

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure if this will help you, but what helps me is to really, fully realize that wife acted (sometimes still acts) that way because she's truly not attracted to me. As Clint Eastwood would say, deserve's got nothing to do with it. If she's not attracted to you, then what else is there to say?