We can have liberal values and we can also be against immigration.

Belgian here. That's where the problems lies. Integration. We have to respect their views, their methods, their lifestyle, whilst they're constantly condemning our own.

I'll be voting to stay in, as will all my friends. I'll be absolutely devastated if we go out.

I will be voting to stay in Europe.

Oh I intend to stay in, don't worry :]

We Brits don't run away from strife. I'd be disappointed in my fellow countrymen who believe this is the way forward.

Now is the time to stand together, to stand united. 🇪🇺🇬🇧

I wouldn't be surprised in 'OUT' supporters start adding this to their list of reasons to leave the EU. I hope not; tragedy shouldn't be used for political point-scoring.

Please do. It's time that this EU failure is coming to an end. Yes there are good things about Europe, free travel and work and goods, but you do not, ever, force laws upon these countries. I really don't know where it went wrong, and why all said countries traded in their own control over their country to that criminal organisation but it's time it's put to an end. Starting with Britain, it could be the start of something amazing. I hope everything just falls apart, a couple of right-wing leaders will bring back order and control over this continent.

Your preaching that I should get monitored in a strict way? What did I ever do to you? My rights are tossed out simply because a few shit stains did something that is WIDELY considered terrible by Muslims too?

The name was first, so perfectly absurd people taint their user names with rational comments.

"Rational" and "mature" are two different things.

he's a karma whore.

I want to spread my message of love and friendship around the world!

I never even look at user names and wouldn't have noticed until you pointed it out. Either way, a name doesn't make a point any more or less valid.

Agreed. How uncool.

We really, really like free speech.

Stupid username checking in. I've been using my username for over 10 years now. I was young and stupid when I made it, but it's a small part of my youth that I don't want to let go. Although when my daughter starts asking me why all of my video game characters are named 'fockface', I'll probably need to let it go.

a) Islam has more "oppression points"
b) Muslims can kick your face for your "activism". Roughly saying, these are the reasons, if we don't venture into the "SJW specifically target white man" territory.

but it is only a small issue caused by a vanishingly small minority.

It sounds like you're principles weren't strongly held and you gave them up at the smallest challenge, that doesn't make you strong or brave, just weak and scared.

You're right. Thanks.

That's true of most Abrahamic religions.

Still there are a lot of criminals among black people, just eradicate black people and we won't have them anymore.

Also, fuck all those white man bankers in wall street. Eradicate all white men and we won't be fucked over by the 1%ers anymore.

And fuck all those indian serial children rapists, eradicate all indians and we won't have more child rapists.

The equation is simple. Just eradicate all humans.

The muslim community??

Assuming all terrorists are men, you could apply the same logic. Get rid of all the men and we get rid of all the terrorism. Who cares if 99% of men are peaceful and innocent? Get rid of all of them and we get rid of the bad 1%.

Despite being an atheist, I'm still reluctant to demonise all muslims for the acts of a few extremists.

Edit: Downvoted for suggesting that the "muslim community" is not responsible for the acts of a few men. Crazy.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. One of the Islamic State's most powerful tools towards establishing the caliphate is inciting bigotry -- stoke the fire of "Islam vs. the West" and see recruitment numbers rise.

Criticizing and fighting back against antisocial and backwards ideas, particularly violent/extremist ideas and the people who perpetuate them, will help us in the long run. Buying wholesale into this idea of the "other" won't.

You're just confirming what they said. The actions of a few Islamists stoke fear, anger and resentment towards Muslims in general.

He never said that it was their end game. He simply pointed out that if everyone started hating all Muslims, those hated Muslims would be easier to convert because of they already feel persecuted and hated. Of course they want this. Can they not want multiple things? No need to get combative.

It's not a "stupid slogan", it's 100% correct. They want the West to start hating all Muslims, so it becomes easier for them to radicalize people for their war against the West, in the hopes of eventually bringing about Sharia law.

/u/Ecorin is right, lookup "isis gray zone".
While it's not their final goal, it's a way to reach it.

That being said, I personally don't believe the final goal of ISIS's leaders is religious; sounds pretty naive me.

It can look like that from a far back and abstracted point of view but when you start to look closer to each of the elements which construct that grand narrative the whole thing starts to become a lot more complex than a clash of cultures. There are so many historical, political, geopolitical, economic and even environmental factors at play in different ways in different parts of the world where the clash of cultures appears to be taking place. To buy into the clash of cultures narrative requires ignoring far too many important factors that we need to understand to work our way towards a solution.

"I have nothing against the veil. And I think that, wrongly, many in the West look at the veil as a symbol of oppression. Now, as long as a woman chooses to wear the veil, because that's her belief and because of her own - that's a personal relationship with God, so she should be free to dress in whichever way she wants." - Queen Rania of Jordan.

In every religion, there are radicalized cults. These radicals make up a small subset of people and cannot speak for the entire religion. What about the radical Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka for one?

The vast majority of Muslims live peacefully with their neighbors. They are our doctors, our fellow students, and fellow human beings. They don't deserve the hate that are directed their way and feel just as pained about everything as we feel. Heck, even more so. This is a corruption of the religion, the way that that they raised to believe in.

Yep.. All the shit Bush started is coming back to us and our allies. This is absolutely to blame on the right wing policies of the last 30 years.

The problem is, the liberals in this country are about to elect either the more stupid Bush mach II or the female Bush. And round and round we go....

Classic right wing policy; throw rocks at the hornet's nest then tell the hornets not to sting you because you might throw more.

i am not OP and I dont have source but its not a secret? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth#Europe

afaik only 40% of people in paris are native french

Muslim birth rates, immigration rates vs traditional birth rates. It's occurring everywhere. Use the internet, it's right in front of you.

Winner winner chicken dinner. You just defined Islam.

Can't speak for the current nutjobs but it was Al Qaeda's publicly stated strategy to provoke the West into expensive foreign wars that would destabilise the domestic economy and lead to the breakdown of society. They had a plan beyond "killing as many Westerners as possible".

Groups like ISIS want their extremism to be matched by western extremism, legitimizing their propaganda by drawing Europe and the US into open conflict with Islam as a whole. It allows them to sell the 'us versus the world' shtick a lot better when 'civilized' westerners become racist, war-hungry, and intolerant. It's not only a recruiting method, but it's a way to enlarge the conflict on a global scale. Don't forget that ISIS is an apocalyptic cult that believes their ultimate purpose is to draw western powers into massive conflicts in line with their own prophecies: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

They've been playing too much CS.

They didn't just read the Koran and think "yeah exactly I should blow up a boots chemist ". Studies into these kinds of people show more religious illiteracy than anything. Most of the Taliban in Afghanistan were completely illiterate even. It's all far more complex than Koran -> terrorism.

I despise reactionary bigots of any religion, race or gender but let's be accurate for god's sake. If you pinpoint the wrong factor or give overdue important to a factor then your solutions to the problem are going to be seriously flawed.

Edit: source for the claim for religious illiteracy.

We're dealing with angry, alienated people dumb enough to fall for extremist ideas to give their lives some meaning but with still enough between their ears to be dangerous.

They need to run away from their toxic religion instead and stop letting their sons and daughters radicalize.

They're trying to get muslims and middle eastern who were born in western countries to feel unwelcome in their own country. Once they start getting alienated in their nation they'll start developing hate for their fellow citizens and easier to recruit.

I'm arab american and was 5 when 9/11 happened. I didn't understand what happened but growing up made me hate myself. I was bullied and made fun getting called a terrorist. I remember when going out with my dad and he was talking on the phone with his brother in arabic and everyone around us staring with disgust and one guy yelling at us to gtfo of America.

I never felt like an American even tho I was born here. Even now since this whole ISIS shit I get treated differently. I ain;t even religious

Almost every genocide in history is committed as a form of retaliation or revenge. WWII was directly sparked by the unfair conditions imposed on Germany in the Treaty of Versailles. The same can be said about the genocides that occurred in Rwanda, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, and Armenia, among other countries.

Alienation is a powerful tool; think of the Columbine Massacre and all recent high school shootings. What was the root cause? The suspects/attackers all felt alienated and bullied. Now, put yourself in the common Muslim's position.

You're a 16 year old boy who feels like you don't belong anywhere. People look at you with hate, call you a monster, and condemn your entire family and culture because of the actions of a few, even if you've done nothing wrong. Then, a group of people show up who make you feel like you belong, like you have a purpose in life. Why support, protect the people who alienated you, attacked you when you can be strong and seek revenge for how you were treated? They speak the same language, include you and make you feel important, and treat you as if you are their brother. Suddenly, at 16, you're given fancy new guns and women; both of which, were out of your gasps earlier on.

Imagine coming home to your family after a long flight, only to find out about 9/11 shortly after landing. Your heart breaks for your fellow Americans but because you are Muslim and was born in a Middle Eastern country, you are escorted to the back of the airport and interrogated for hours on end You are not allowed to contact your family and when it's time for meals, your detainers give you only pork, which you can't eat. Imagine how proud you are of you son, who worked hard and was given the chance to interview at one of the best medical schools in the country. Except, when he goes to one of the interviews, the interviewer's face immediately drops as soon as he sees your son and focuses the entire interview on the Middle East instead of his qualifications. These are things that have actually happened to actual American citizens. Can you imagine how hurt they feel? Imagine being in a class full of students, except people would rather sit on the ground then sit in the two seats next to you because you are wearing a veil. All eyes are on you because the Paris attacks had just happened.

We human beings are remarkably susceptible to manipulation. The Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment demonstrate just how easily we can commit terrible acts against another human being if we feel forced into it or if given power.