上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]SpiritCommander 1570ポイント1571ポイント  (311子コメント)

Ex-Muslim here (was born into it, brainwashed but thanks be to Almighty Odin I always had a scientific and rational bend of mind that allowed me to see the light). As someone who has seen the true face of Islam and lived all his life inside an Islamic society, surrounded by "moderate" Muslims who praised Mohammad and his Allah dozens of times a day, yeah FUCK Islam.

This religion has the ultimate self-defense mechanisms: no questioning or critical thought allowed, mostly punishable by death. Thinking of leaving the religion? Death penalty for you.

Only the vilest, scummiest ideology uses violence as the FIRST resort rather than facts and logic.

I can't wait for this piece of horseshit from the Iron Age to die out. I would love to see it in my lifetime, but seeing how A) prevalent stupidity is and B) the breeding rates of fucking Muslims (heh) I think it will take a hundred years.

[–]Stinkfoot69 402ポイント403ポイント  (36子コメント)

congrats for escaping, praise Odin.

[–]GordoElGordo 110ポイント111ポイント  (24子コメント)

Praise be

[–]Anti-TheistExodor54 132ポイント133ポイント  (16子コメント)

Odin saved us from the ice giants.

[–]PTBR 232ポイント233ポイント  (26子コメント)

Ex-Muslim here as well. Born into a Muslim family. Grandfather was a sheik, except he was pretty damn wise about the whole thing. Didn't really shove it down our throats. Everyone else in the family, however, is batshit crazy.

Being Asian-American without a lot of money, it took me 20 years to visit my family again. And what do they want me to do after 20 years? Bring me to the fucking mosque and be initiated into the faith. It ruins my vacation, but I let it go, because it's my family. The next year, I go visit them again, thinking all the Muslim shit is over. No, it's not over. There's another ritual to guarantee my passage to heaven involving sacrificing a fucking goat, which is pretty fucked up, but I'm thinking, "I've never tried goat curry before, and I hear it's good," but someone tells me I can't eat it. Apparently, if the goat is dying for you, you don't get to eat the goat because the goat is a part of your soul or whatever the fuck.

Fuck Islam indeed.

[–]ooiceberg 71ポイント72ポイント  (8子コメント)

Makes you wonder what will happen the next trip.

[–]SpiritCommander 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

The gleeful slaughter of animals, murder basically, is one of the relatively minor things about Islam that I really dislike.

If I had relatives like yours I would completely stop visiting, maybe talk to them once a year on the phone. Are they close family as in parents and siblings? If so have you "come out of the closet" or is that an impossibility?

[–]OlemmeAnonyymi 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Murder is the willful and unjustified killing of human beings, it doesn't apply to animals. You can massacre animals, slaughter animals or exterminate animals, but for some reason you can't murder them. Crazy old world we live in.

[–]420jiisan 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Being part Mexican I'd have goat stew (birria), bomb ass shit.

Though goat curry rocks too.

[–]Beersaround 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

Breeding rates of a fucking group are always higher than the rates of their non fucking counterparts.

[–]FiveLions 198ポイント199ポイント  (106子コメント)

Hating Islam IS progressive. Islam stands against everything that liberals want for people. I just don't fucking get young people who protect killers, because they don't want to hurt their feelings. The only way to fight fire is with fire.

Also, Liberals believe that if they could somehow 'educate' Muslims, they will have a heart change...it's really quite unbelievable that there are zero street smarts for a younger generation. It's literally in the Quran to lie to Non-Islamists. People are crazy for comparing Islam to Christianity. Really stupid and crazy. Why? because of the Crusades? Do yourselves a favor and read up on what really happened during the crusades, instead of using it as an antecdote

Here's some wonderful passages from the Quran:

Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim should appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel that way..

Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Edit: you're fucking welcome

Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

[–]TutorialToast 49ポイント50ポイント  (26子コメント)

As a self proclaimed liberal, I never really had the urge to "protect killers." I have always despised all religion no matter the cause, because somewhere down the line, it will get as extreme as Islam is today. We need to say no to religion. All of it.

[–]FiveLions 34ポイント35ポイント  (20子コメント)

Yeah, I've heard this before. I disagree. I think equating Islam to any other religion is evil to former Muslims and their counterparts too afraid to leave. It's another form of masking what Sam Harris calls "the motherload of bad ideas." Islam has no self correcting mechanism, like other religions do. When you open the Quran, you are literally reading the spoken word of God. Islam's messiah was a child raping war mongerer, believe me it's no illusion that what happened today is a very great representation of "the religion of peace."

Islam is worse than all other religions period. You're delusional to think otherwise.

[–]whats_a_rimjob 24ポイント25ポイント  (14子コメント)

While Islam may be the worst, that doesn't change the inherent evil that is present in all religions. Anything can be compared relatively and I doubt you will find many people that will equate the current state of Islam to Christianity or any other religion, but the logical conclusion is to do away with all of them. All religious texts are littered with stupidity and barbarism. Christianity attempts to save face with the new testament that essentially changes the word of God to fit the narrative. Islamic extremists simply believe, "who are we to change the word of God?" so they follow their doctrine absolutely. When you look at a scale from extremist to moderate, people choose to believe less and less of their given doctrine to appear more reasonable. The less you believe the more reasonable you become. The logical conclusion is to move past moderate and not believe altogether.

[–]fetamorphosis 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

The New Testament isn't totally devoid of shitty stuff, either, but it's mostly in the category of anachronistic assholery, rather than the wanton, xenophobic, misogynistic barbarity of the Old Testament.

[–]Saedeas 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

It introduced the concept of hell. I'd say that's insanely immoral.

[–]Bronkko 31ポイント32ポイント  (4子コメント)

Liberals believe

that a broad brush. many of us dont like islam. many of us just use it as a mirror for christians in this country to look into. fuck muhammad.

[–]Anti-TheistBloodyNine 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

You think Christians self-reflect on their beliefs in contrast with Islam? If anything it reinforces their beliefs in Christianity being the 'right religion'. But, 'that a broad brush'...

[–]Yetimang 80ポイント81ポイント  (29子コメント)

Well when you're a Westerner, it's pretty clear that any criticism of Christianity that you make is coming from a position of moral and academic disagreements with the ideology of the religion in the abstract.

But many Westerners criticize Islam out of racial or ethnic prejudice. People like Donald Trump say that we should not allow any Muslims into the country and he's supported by people that don't really know anything about the actual beliefs of Islam. The extent of their knowledge is that Arabs and Muslims (interchangeable terms to them) are terrorists and they're all evil.

I see people crossing that line all the time, calling them camel fuckers, saying they live in shitholes, denigrating their entire culture, and then they say they're not racist, they just don't approve of Islam (and usually that you're somehow the racist one for pointing it out, aka the "I'm rubber, you're glue" principle).

I'm sure you can understand why some people don't want to be seen as associated with that brand of criticism, whether or not they harbor disagreements with actual Islamic beliefs.

And come on, saying that they can't be "educated"? Where do you think all the people in /r/exmuslim come from? Hell, a lot of the Western atheists in this sub used to be practicing Christians. I'm not sure how you can claim moral high ground while still taking this absolutist view of all Muslims. Isn't that exact same kind of thinking, applied by Muslims to non-Muslims, the very thing you were angry about?

[–]copperwatt 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Isn't that exact same kind of thinking, applied by Muslims to non-Muslims, the very thing you were angry about?

"All muslims are narrow minded barbarians for thinking that all westerners are alcoholic pigfuckers!"

[–]UncleNorman 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not an alcoholic.

[–]copperwatt 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

My pig made me go into rehab because of the ED.

[–]flukus 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

it's really quite unbelievable that there are zero street smarts for a younger generation

They grew up without being allowed to wander the streets unsupervised. Is that unbelievable?

[–]metastasis_d 16ポイント17ポイント  (10子コメント)

I just don't fucking get young people who protect killers, because they don't want to hurt their feelings. The only way to fight fire is with fire.

Because seriously, what are we as societies supposed to do? Murder them all? Put them in concentration camps? Forcibly sterilize them so they can't ever increase their numbers? Forbid all religion and still claim freedom of speech is a thing? Forbid just their religion while allowing others?

[–]FiveLions 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Talk about it openly like we do with other topics. Either were too afraid of our community's backlash or how the public may recieve. Wiping it under the rug is an extreme diservice to former Muslims and those who are afraid of being tortured and murdered who leave. I'm not afraid, are you?

[–]bizzeebee 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

i am afraid. and i hate that. but it's exactly what you said. if i came out and said exactly what i think about Islam, I'd be blasted and demonized and called horrible names by people on my political spectrum. it's distressing. my team is fighting for tolerance for something abhorrent. the best voice of condemnation needs to come from former muslims.

[–]fetamorphosis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Religion, like any construct of human thought, is a tool which can be used in different ways. Every holy book has ugly stuff in it, and every one has been corrupted and used by people to control the masses, and to achieve goals outside of religion itself.

It's not just the Crusades that have been perpetrated in the name of Christianity, and to suggest that it is so is being obtuse at best, and deliberately misleading at worst.

I've been away from /r/atheism for a while, but if it's become a place where racist tripe like your comment is so heavily supported, maybe I don't want to be here anyway.

[–]Atheistmothzilla 34ポイント35ポイント  (3子コメント)

I can't wait for this piece of horseshit from the Iron Age to die out.

You have to bear in mind that it's about 600 years behind Christianity. And Christianity is only just beginning to die back. So yeah.

[–]_____hi_____ 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

also bear in mind that the only redeeming quality of christianity was/is Jesus Christ. Muslims didn't get a new testament where all of a sudden god has a change of heart and becomes caring and nonviolent. So time is not the only factor. The entire religion will most likely have to be dismantled before these acts of violence stop.

[–]NihilistBachMinuetInG 36ポイント37ポイント  (6子コメント)

Islam's typical activity goes like this: - Islamic extremists = 'not real Muslims' - Criticize Islam = 'racist' - Muslim trying to exit Islam = death

I don't see how people don't see that that is illogical. Maybe it's because like you said, they don't think.

[–]majorchamp 12ポイント13ポイント  (55子コメント)

what is the solution? srs

[–]MrCannabeans 14ポイント15ポイント  (13子コメント)

Good question. Don't know that we'll ever get an answer.
I think people will eventually get to the point that they're not cool with Islam. More and more places will start saying "No thanks. You can leave where you are, but you are not welcome here."

But probably not. We'll probably be stuck dealing with this bullshit for a long time because what we have here are two vastly different sets of ideas about how things work. One says be nice, the other one says don't.

[–]copperwatt 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

How would you even begin to enforce that? Like someone just said, believers are encouraged to lie to non-believers, why would self reporting "what religion are you" be effective? At some point you start turning away people just because of what they look like?

[–]Strong Atheistqwertylool 23ポイント24ポイント  (16子コメント)

Serious/not serious: big brother. Complete control over everything, not allowing Islam or any other religion to spread. It would be the best and quickest way. orgenocidebutlet'snotgetintothat

[–]Agnostic Atheistsloansta 12ポイント13ポイント  (13子コメント)

orgenocidebutlet'snotgetintothat

It's probably not the right answer butitmightbetheonlyoption

[–]HonkeyDong 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

Yes, genocide is an awful terrible thing we should never consider...

...but maybe if you want to remove a religion that spreads hate and destruction you have to remove its followers.

[–]ajsatx 295ポイント296ポイント  (74子コメント)

You know how people sometimes bring up that homophobia is kind of inaccurate, because those people aren't scared of gay people, just intolerant?

Well, if someone called me an Islamaphobe i would have difficulty arguing with the label. ISIS does scare me. The videos I have seen of those journalists, the VICE documentary that had an interview with a captured jihadist.. These people hate me, and would kill me just for being an American. The war against ISIS seems very uncertain.

The Qu'ran encourages violence towards those who don't choose to convert or leave the religion.

The Bible has a lot of questionable shit in it, but Christians ignore the really outdated stuff.. not so for the Qu'ran.

When I see these attacks happen, it does scare me. Because I know how badly they want to do this in America.

I don't agree with their beliefs, I find them sexist, anti-gay, prejudiced towards any other religions and atheism. I think that cutting hands and feet off and stoning people is outdated and barbaric. I think it's the worst religion that exists.

I guess that makes me intolerant, a bigot or Islamaphobic. But if these people can flaunt their backwards beliefs and wish Death to America and constantly get a pass for it, then I'm gonna speak what I believe and say that I don't approve of it. I don't like it, and I'm sick of it. I'm sick of people being more worried about being labeled intolerant than anything else.

Well, I'm intolerant of violent terrorist attacks, suicide bombing, child soldiers, beheadings, dismemberment, murder, hating gays, extreme sexism, rape, stoning people, and too much other shit to list. If being tolerant means allowing this stuff to happen I'd rather be a bigot.

[–]talentlessbluepanda 59ポイント60ポイント  (30子コメント)

Islam needs to reform. Christianity reformed for the most part, going away from things like the Crusades to just hating gays, trans-gender, and other generally overly conservative values like we see in the U.S 'far religious-right.' Islam on the other hand I don't believe has reformed, and those that do 'reform' are now 'moderates' and simply do not believe in a literal teaching of the religion. They, just like their Christian counter-parts, aren't 'extremist' and instead generally intertwine logic and their religion together, as to continue to practice it but not do anything really stupid like cutting people's heads off for some 'prize' after death.

And the ones that claim to be, say, 'liberals' or 'progressives,' aren't true liberals or progressives if they disapprove of my statement. See, as a general progressive myself, I believe things needs to move forward from this kind of behavior. This behavior that we see is not of this time, and I would more closely associate it with the 1300's than now. I also take a right to say these things, and if another 'liberal' or 'progressive' wants to tell me that I'm wrong in saying that Islam needs to reform is simply ignorant. They ignore the facts and believe that everyone is a good person and that any reason that they act out and become a bad person is because someone else was bad to them. That's not always the case. Some people simply take teachings like extremism in the Middle East directly to heart and commit these horrible actions. Instead, defend the ones that don't practice this kind of extremism and speak out against this type of barbaric action. Don't defend the ones that give 'Islam a bad name.'

These attacks are inspired by religion, though amongst other things. It is true that not all Muslims practice a literal teaching of Islam, but it's also true that a large enough portion of them do. I'll go as far as to say that all Muslims are bad people is an incorrect statement, because that'd be like me saying all Christians are bad people because a significant portion of them hate gays. No, they're not all bad people, just the ones that focus on the extremist and literal teachings of their religion.

It's a very difficult problem to solve because you simply cannot 'bomb' the religion away. It's not like they're a foreign government with an official location in a traditional sort of way, but instead it's an idea and a belief system that'll be here long after the cities are gone. Instead of bombing, which many of us feel necessary, we should fight it using ideas. Bring in modern and progressive ideas into these communities slowly, and don't do it in a disrespectful and hateful sort of way. Bring in modern human rights in these nations that support these strict teachings, like Saudi Arabia, and don't support these strict teachings through continued relations that exist. Don't assault the religion directly, instead assault the ideas and actions these people do. Most importantly, any change that happens in a society must be done on the inside, not from the outside. If people want to revolt, they must do it themselves. Society does not change for the healthier if the change is forced onto them and as a community they are not ready. It will never be completely solved, but over the long run it should help.

But of course, this would have all been prevented if religion never existed. Instead, we'd have wars based on goods and resources instead of a 'mystical' being that can't be proved to exist.

[–]B-Sod_The_Majestic 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

fighting ideas with ideas is definetly the way to go about trying to fix the issue with islam. The bigger issue is getting them to listen and stop behaving like kids who have fingers in their ears and shouting "la La LA LA LA LAAAAAA"

One of the main issues to me on why this is hard to do is the society aspect of islam. It's based on an 'honor' system so for one muslim to listen and go against the grain is dishonable. In extremist land this would mean death but in everyday islam they expect the person to be shunned even by their own famiy. If the family doesn't shun them then they themselves are then shunned.

What I and the Western world don't understand is why it such a big deal for them to care so much about this aspect. The Paris bomber was hidden in plain sight and fuck knows how many muslims knew he was in Brussles but not one person was willing to speak out in fear of being shunned. it's backward ideas such as this that is holding the religion back and is holding it's place in a modern society at a standstill. I also don't understand why they look upon outsiders with suspicion. I don't care what they believe as long as it isn't harming anyone as should they not care what others believe but they seem to do even though, espcially with christisnity at one time or another had the same unatiquated views as they do now.

The best idea is to teach people that it is not wrong to belive in a mystical sky fairy and that it is okay if that helps to justify your existance but these written stories of man posing as the word of a God need to be extinuished and a more modern updated code of life and morals needs to be adheared to that doesn't breed hate and suspision against others. This needs to be entrenched in education inplace of religion, only then might we stand a chance of changing peoples views on religious issues whilst not outright banning the more pratical side of religion from being worshipped

Edit

If we don't do something like this the we are on a crash course of a fifth Great crusade. Millions will die which could then spark a third world war. Genocide on a grand scale in Europe even worse than the Holocost could be a possibility with muslims rounded up and slaughterd all in the name of protecting our "christian" way of life not that thats a thing for us atheiets. The whole thing is pointless and doesn't serve any good and all that will happen is swings and roundabouts and a reset for the same shit to happen in another 700 years time

[–]gelinrefira 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is a generational problem, just like how Christianity was nerfed over the last two centuries or so. Remember, back then, good southern white Christians justified slavery through the bible, it took a war and 100 years of reform to get to where we are.

[–]B-Sod_The_Majestic 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

to be honest i don't think christianity is any further forward. There are a huge amount of christians willing to FIGHT for their way if life to be upheld be that through word or war. The biggest issue is conservatism, the belief that keeping people down is the right way and to "SHOW" people the way, is becoming more and more prelevant especially in the political world.

Right wing politics is getting out of control amd I see a lot of religous issues starting to pop up in countries in Europe as well as the bible belt of the USA. They seem quite willing to propergate hatred back towards islam and go back to the past ways of christianity, gay hating, people bashing, abusing kids, whatever it has been doing in the past that has made it so wrong in the first instance, to combat this islam issue which is what they preceive as a threat to "their way"

What on Earth are we teaching kids in school now. That it's okay to hate. I don't think i;m very comfertable with this and if this is a generational problem now then it's a ticking time bomb ready to explode in more fanaticism than we've ever seen in the past. Worrying times indeed

[–]Anzat 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

How can Islam ever be reformed, though? Nobody can change the text of the Koran and hadiths, and they're the main problem. As long as a billion+ people think those books describe the will of a perfect being, a minority numbering in the millions will still subscribe to straightforward, literal, violent, and oppressive interpretations of the books. It seems impossible to win the fight over the supposed desires of a fictional creature by arguing about what the fictional creature really wants, or even about what book best describes the will of the fictional creature. No matter how many Muslims promote a peaceful interpretation of their holy books, they can't stop others from arriving at violent interpretations on their own or by the influence of other radicals.

It seems the only long-term solution is to educate Islam out of existence. This has to be a careful, multi-generational project, or it will fail and lead to more violence than what we're currently trying to stop. But if we don't at least proceed with this long-term goal in mind, I don't see how we make progress.

[–]bassbastard 74ポイント75ポイント  (21子コメント)

a Phobia is an irrational fear.

There is nothing irrational about fearing a group who, at it's extreme, is comfortable with strapping explosives to them selves and detonating innocent people.

That is not a phobia. That is a survival instinct to be wary of them. Not the nebulous "Them", in a paranoid sense, but members of Islam.

[–]KJ_Jeller 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

The problem is acting like every member of Islam is "comfortable with strapping explosive to themselves and detonating innocent people." The vast majority aren't.

[–]bassbastard 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is why I added the "at it's extreme" portion. It would be irrational, say, if you saw the nice Muslim couple from 4C shopping at the market and you left just in case they wore the vest.

[–]forbin1992 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's beyond terrorism. This is the point I always try to drive home. If it was as simple as 1% of muslims are terrorists, then everyone else is totally normal then I would agree with liberals/PC people.

But that's not the case. A majority of Muslims around the world support absolutely heinous laws against women and apostates.

Susan B. Anthony would have her head put on a spike in most Muslim countries, and she is a century outdated for those of us in western countries.

[–]Pastafariantyptyphus 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

just intolerant?

please tolerate my intolerance, or else your an islamophobe

[–]RS-E 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Intolerant - I guess, but who the fuck wouldn't be? Islamaphobic - a made up word, used exclusively for the purpose of censorship. Furthermore, who the fuck wouldn't be? Bigot - the most credible definitions of this word entail 'unreasonable' intolerance. This is most certainly not unreasonable.

Nah, you're good man, you keep doing you :)

[–]hired_killer 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree with you, Once a group pf people promote unsolicited violence against others, they lose their human rights. Genocide is more and more of an attractive option. But, who decides?

[–]wegwerpworp 117ポイント118ポイント  (7子コメント)

Also Dutch guy here.

The one person I hate the most right now is fucking Prem, he was invited to a talkshow and said "they aren't muslim, muslims are only peaceful and wish for the best for all of us".

Of course they are muslim, of course the pedophiles in the catholic church are still catholic. The religious do not have some moral superiority for fucks sake. To say they aren't muslim and that all muslims are peace loving... for fucks sake Christians throughout history weren't friendly towards atheists, the LGBT community, women anybody really. They have no moral superiority no matter how much they would like to think they do.

[–]theflush1980 52ポイント53ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, the age old "No true Scotsman fallacy"

[–]erbie_ancock 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

They even get their motivation directly from the religion. It's so obvious that Islam is the problem here, even if not all muslims are extremists.

[–]Gnostic AtheistSamsTestingAlt 132ポイント133ポイント  (26子コメント)

I also hate Islam. I really hate how everyone pretends that Islam has nothing to do with these attacks.

[–]Jay0253 28ポイント29ポイント  (1子コメント)

'Insert random bullshit Quran quote about treating everyone with kindness'

It's totes not Islam guys! /s

[–]Agnostic AtheistbureX 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is pretty much Twitter right now.

I believe #stopislam is trending, but has been censored by Twitter. Tons of muslims (muslim names and whatnot) are posting about the religion of peace BS and whatnot...

[–]Jack_Scallywag 26ポイント27ポイント  (11子コメント)

Hard to say who I hate more, Islamic scum or the regressive scumfucks who attack anyone who criticize this twisted religion and disgusting culture it breeds in so many parts of the world.

[–]Neaux_Fappe 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

Jesus, man. Do you realize the kind of hatred you're showing works to nobody's benefit more than those "Islamic scum"? At least the ones who'd prefer to see endless violence between West and Middle East.

[–]nothere7 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the regressives - the apologists who twist everything away from blaming Islam that drive me crazy.

The brainwashed I feel bad for, they know nothing else but darkness and hate. The "progressives" are just so blind.

[–]nomadz 359ポイント360ポイント  (87子コメント)

French here, same feeling. I've always been a liberal. I come from a secular leftist family. My grandfather was an antifascist partisan in 40's Italy. Now I feel fucking betrayed by the left. We fought so hard for 300 years to make religion a thing of the past. And now you can't say a fucking thing about Islam without being called a racist. White guilt, more white guilt, and more white guilt. When the fuck does it stop ?

[–]Strong AtheistNoSurfinMovie 164ポイント165ポイント  (22子コメント)

American here. We have the same liberal apologists here and it is frustrating, especially being a liberal. Any critique of Islam outside of this sub gets immediate downvotes because of shitty neologism like "islamophobia." I find it ironic that we all of a sudden put islam on the pedestal after all of these terror attacks and defend it, because "not all muslims," right? As others pointed out, it is hypocritical for one to defend women's rights, abortion rights, LGBT rights, etc, all while defending islam, because we all know of its wonderful track record of human rights.

[–]dehemke 23ポイント24ポイント  (6子コメント)

It happens in this sub, too; usually with some sort of redirection against christianity or the religious right.

Everything that is rightfully abhorrent about the religious right in America is 100 fold worse in conservative, mainstream islam at the moment.

[–]RS-E 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is actually largely why I've become inactive on this sub, any criticism of Islam just gets appropriated towards the nebulous "all religion is equally bad" mindset. Well, you know what? It isn't. Christianity is harmful to a progressive democratic society, but it isn't out there bombing innocent civilians by the hundreds, it isn't universally oppressing women and gays, it isn't threatening to kill those who would deign to leave it, it isn't dictating freedom of expression over who can draw some old slave-owning child molester.

Fuck Islam, but fuck those educated individuals who defend it even more, they should know better.

[–]yellekc 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

All religion is bad, like all illness is bad. But not all diseases are equal. Christianity is like an annoying rash on the elbow of humanity, and Islam pretty much Ebola. It is so much worse than any other religion.

Imagine what this country (USA) would be like if all Christian fundamentalist had the violent mentality of Muslim extremist. We'd see abortion center bombings every day. We'd see Baptist massacring Catholics. It'd be hell.

[–]AtheistFirstTimeWang 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

I agree. I'm American and to the left even of Sanders on some issues but I'm so fucking tired of the fucking coddling the religious get in this country. Yes Islam is a problem but it's not alone; Christian fundamentalism is stagnating social and environmental progress, Hasidic jews are fucking up public education for American families in small, isolated communities (I'll admit that this is not a widespread issue but it's severely detrimental to the communities it is affecting).

Buddhists, Sikhs and Hindus don't seem to be fucking up too much stuff around here but maybe that's just because they don't represent enough of a plurality anywhere to accomplish anything.

[–]SuperDaleCooper 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Generally speaking, Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhs seem to be a lot more peaceful and tolerant than Abrahamic religions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[–]AtheistFirstTimeWang 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

For real tho. When buddhists are upset about some shit they set themselves on fire without hurting anyone else. And if I were inclined towards non-evidenced based belief system Sikhism seems pretty cool except for the bullshit with the hair.

[–]MileHighGal 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

Christian fundamentalists don't hold a candle to Muslim fundamentalists. No comparison there.

[–]justduck01 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If only the moderate left and moderate right left the fringe crazies behind and voted together to make our country a better place.

[–]Splatterh0use 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel your sorrow as a fellow European. Take your cities back from bigotry now because tomorrow is too late. Don't be afraid to speak out even if people won't like it, because then it'll mean you struck a nerve. Europe have made its ground a welcoming place and bigots have taken advantage, but terrorists and civilians have become one under the same flag and they both won't separate from each other; this means the problem is now not "a few bad apples" but the whole religious establishment and all its aspects.

[–]bscepter 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

i am a liberal. and i am an atheist. but i am also honest. and while i find all religion ridiculous, i agree that islam is far and away the most dangerous religion as it stands today in 2016. this was not always true, of course. much blood has been spilled in the name of christianity and plenty of other religions. but when i read about the barbarity of ISIS or so-called honor killings in pakistan or 9 year old girls being married off to old men, it makes my blood fucking boil.

and i think that other liberals are too scared to admit that not all religions are equal in their wrongness.

[–]muffler48 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Listen to Christopher Hitchens. All religions are bad at some point but Islam is the worst by far at this point in time.

[–]Anti-TheistFunnySheep 113ポイント114ポイント  (55子コメント)

I'm from The Netherlands too and I despise any religion, but Islam in particular.

When there's is a terrorist attack 9/10 if not 10/10 we know upfront what the background of these fuckers will be.

What many people don't know about is the tons of muslims students at high schools cheering and laughing about the attacks in front of their teachers.

If you think your muslim neighbour is a nice and friendly person, please ask him/her these questions and share your results here:

  • Would you mary a non-Muslim?
  • Would you mary a Jew?
  • How would you feel if your child is in a gay relationship?
  • Do you think gay people should be allowed to mary?
  • Do you think that men and women are equal and have the same rights? For example, drive a car, have a job, go out alone, decide to wear or not to wear the veil?
  • What is your view on muslims who leave their faith, should they be punished?
  • Do you agree with physical (like whipping)/ capital punishment?
  • Would you like to see sharia law implemented in western countries?
  • Is it morally OK to mary a girl at age 9?
  • Do you agree that critique on islam is allowed?

[–]fallingandflying[S] 57ポイント58ポイント  (22子コメント)

100% agreed I hate all religion, but no religion is as vile, violent and unstable as Islam.

[–]De-Facto Atheistdevil27 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Would you mary a non-Muslim? Would you mary a Jew? How would you feel if your child is in a gay relationship? Do you think gay people should be allowed to mary?

These questions are immaterial..

The main questions to ask are the following:

Would you like to see sharia law implemented in western countries?

Do you agree that critique on islam is allowed?

Do you think that men and women are equal and have the same rights?

[–]spyke570 12ポイント13ポイント  (24子コメント)

I'm a Muslim and here are my responses

Yes

Yes, its actually one of the religions allowed in Islam

Weird but I would get over it

Yes equal rights

No punishment for leaving faith, its your choice

Not physical punishment but I do believe in the death penalty for overwhelming evidence/confession over life in jail which IMO is more inhumane

LOL that would be so stupid if people who are not muslim had to adhere to sharia law...

No it is not

Of course critique is allowed, just as it should be for anything else

But of course you'll never here responses from people like me in the media

[–]gelinrefira 14ポイント15ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's the progressives who betrayed me.

I'm a progressive and I have never defended religious extremism. In fact, religious extremism is the antithesis of progressive movement.

[–]Korgull 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reddit has a history of demonizing right-wing labels and thinking, and a lot of Redditors still think like that, so when they start shifting to the right they need to make excuses for it, and it often comes in the form of "I've been betrayed!" rhetoric. Usually results in commenters claiming to be a once-leftist, only to follow up with some babbling nonsensical comment filled with reactionary talking-points like "Cultural Marxism", "Political Correctness", "SJWs", etc., etc..

They also like to pretend that they're still leftist/progressive and it's doz ebil SJWs that are going the wrong way! See: "regressive leftism"

[–]kristianstupid 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

It is always difficult to find examples of progressives defending religious extremism, because, it pretty much exists only in fantasy.

[–]glberns 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's easy when you define 'defending religious extremism' as stating that hundreds of millions of people practice Islam and not all of them are evil people.

There's a lot of that in this thread.

[–]Secular HumanistMerari01 219ポイント220ポイント  (77子コメント)

I was raised in the "70s. I was taught, typically for that time, to respect everyone, that everyone was equal and to see the good in everything. I was raised to welcome newcomers and to share with those less fortunate.

But I hate Islam.

It didn't start out that way. I started out being curious about Mohammedans, as they used to be called. I started out welcoming them in my nation and wishing them a better life here.

No more.

I've seen the Muslims refuse to assimilate for decades. I've seen them refuse to give up their hatred for women and gay people. I've seen them demand that we adapt to them, give in to them, hand over to them, change our culture for them time and time again.

Enough is enough.

Every time we are told "not all Muslims". Every time it is said "not in my name". And what changes? Only we change. We've given up the freedom to joke about what we want. We've given up the freedom to draw what we want. Time and again we give in to them and nothing ever changes. Always they want more.

It's over and done.

I hate Islam. I want Muslims out of my nation. I want my nation back. I want my freedom back.

And if you say that you are not that kind of Muslim then you have to change your faith from the inside. You have to renounce hateful Imams instead of welcoming them. You have to respect and encourage my right to draw a cartoon about your prophet. You have to take off your headscarf. You have to shave your beard and wear pants.

And if you cannot do that, if you cannot adapt to my culture, if you cannot respect the people of the nation that welcomed you, then you can fuck right off back to your shithole of origin.

Because I hate Islam. I did not start out like that. You made me. You make the change.

[–]Agnostic AtheistIrishB_Cubed 45ポイント46ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was raised in the "70s. I was taught, typically for that time, to respect everyone, that everyone was equal and to see the good in everything. I was raised to welcome newcomers and to share with those less fortunate.

Ahh the Seventies, when we believed religious fundamentalism was a thing you only read about in books and everyone was past that (because it certainly looked that way), religious or not, boy were we wrong.

[–]Anzat 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have to shave your beard and wear pants.

As a bearded atheist, I'm willing to let the beard slide.

[–]Anti-TheistFunnySheep 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

I love your rant.

[–]rjcarr 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except for the beard part. I'd like to keep mine. :)

[–]Generation_Y_Not 27ポイント28ポイント  (4子コメント)

I hate Islam. I want Muslims out of my nation. I want my nation back. I want my freedom back.

Oh, so you want to make America great again?

[–]HeadbangsToMahler 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's the most difficult line to draw. How far does religious freedom go? Most Western countries don't allow individuals to behead people. How far does tolerance of intolerance go? What is the actual problem? Poor integration/assimilation? Failed educational policies? State-sponsored terrorism? Decades of invasion and oil wars causing economic displacement and hatred? Who knows.

[–]voyagebeagle 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Religious freedom is a fucking disaster. The only thing it does is allow people to do things if they they call them religion, that they could not do if they did not call them religion.

Every right to religion worth protecting is already protected by:

  • Freedom of peaceful assembly
  • Freedom of speech
  • Freedom of creed
  • Freedom from discrimination based on religion

[–]dsdiverticulitis 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is extremely ignorant. The religion itself is terrible, yes. They should stop hating women and gays. But they can dress however the fuck they want, dude.

[–]_tpyo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No more

I was raised in the 80's and went to school with immigrant children and that's not really my experience.

[–]juditab 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every time we are told "not all Muslims". Every time it is said "not in my name". And what changes? Only we change. 

This needs to be said over and over and over...

[–]Secular HumanistDieTheVillain 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

You hate Islam? Ok

You hate Muslims? That's the distinction that causes problems.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, not all Christians are abortion clinic bombers, not all Jews blow up Palestinian children.

Hate for religion is ok, hating those who believe in that religion is not.

Islam is dumb, Christianity is dumb, Scientology is dumb...

[–]lidongyuan 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said - we need to recognize that people with ridiculous beliefs are ultimately just people trying to cope and survive. On the other hand, hate for ridiculous beliefs should not be equated with hating people that have those beliefs.

[–]perturbert 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

thousands of people in my city who think violence, intimidation and threats are the way to communicate

This is the hallmark of an "honor" culture. Islam was born in an honor culture and perpetuates it, but it is not completely inextricable.

[–]daneelthesane 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

I am going to get downvoted to oblivion for this, I am sure, but I'm going to say it anyway: I hate Islam, but I love Muslims when they allow me to. I refuse to be against Muslims as a people. I am a humanist, and I believe in the dignity and decent treatment of everyone. I do not want anyone "out of my country" except for criminals (such as terrorists) who need to be deported or imprisoned. I do believe in freedom of religion (including, of course, the freedom from religion), but that includes Muslims.

The number one group that is harmed by Islamic extremists are Muslims. I absolutely agree that liberals and progressives who ignore the human rights violations (such as the oppression of women and religious minorities) are failing to be progressive, and that needs to stop. But going all Trump on an entire population is not going to stop those things, nor will it stop terrorism.

[–]picado 115ポイント116ポイント  (32子コメント)

I feel the same way about the U.S. where women can't get access to abortions and high schools students don't get sex education, where states are trying to codify a right to discriminate against gays, climate change denial is rampant because "God controls the weather", and the GOP candidates compete on who can pander the most to the Christian religious extremists.

[–]blackarmchair 55ポイント56ポイント  (24子コメント)

I'll take America's dying commitment to Christianity over what western Europe is dealing with any day.

[–]Strong AtheistBwhitty23 37ポイント38ポイント  (2子コメント)

Christianity here is like a limp dick. Sure blood comes rushing in every so often but for the most part it's just flaccid.

[–]wegsmijtaccount 34ポイント35ポイント  (10子コメント)

I personally take what we have here in Belgium over what (some of) you guys have in the states anyday. (I do know that you're a big country and it's different in different regions.)

At least the leaders of our country have one stand on it, and religious extremists, while we certainly have them, do not have a voice in our government and education and whatnot, and almost everyone thinks they're nutjobs anyway, even the average religious folk.

[–]Generation_Y_Not 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

I won't. I guess education and health systems have more of an impact on my life than isolated acts of terrorism, but that is just me...

[–]halfdeadbaby 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ex-muslim here too. Honestly I love nothing more to see mostly ex muslims commenting here, I'm so proud of us all for being born with a sense of logic. Fuck the whole islam and MOST ESPECIALLY those wannabe conspiracy theorists muslims that always got their "its not muslims, its all america and jew blahbla illuminati" comments without any real proof

[–]cecil6 31ポイント32ポイント  (5子コメント)

I hate religion too.

[–]_maxus_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I hate all religions equally.

[–]Dnarg 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

While that's a nice way of putting it, it's not really fair to Confucians, Quakers or whatever. They're clearly nowhere near as dangerous. It sounds like you're hating on them because of something someone else did.. And isn't that exactly what you're trying to avoid doing to Muslims?

[–]_tpyo 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Good thing the results of these attacks is this a treatise of anger and hate toward an entire population of people who the attacks represent but a sliver.
I was worried we might get peace for a bit.

[–]feminax 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Indigenous Iraqi Assyrian living in the US, ex-Christian feminist here. I get absolutely pummeled when speaking out again Islam. Fuck Islam. Fuck religion. Fuck killing innocent people over your idiotic delusions. Family left to escape this bullshit and now it's spreading. Fuck all of it.

[–]miffelplix 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

I hate Islam, but I hate all religions. And I hate hypocrisy most of all.

Do a simple body count of Muslims killed, wounded, displaced, vs. Westerners since Bush invaded Iraq. Thousands of Westerners have been killed by Muslims, but hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed. Not to mention that large swaths of the Middle East have been rendered a living hell by ceasing bombing, proxy war, regime change. So, take heart, the Western civilized enlightened progressive world is still "winning."

[–]Callous_Mat 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hate is absolutely the correct feeling to have for this. Don't listen to people saying hate is a strong word or some other bullshit. Hate Islam. Just don't hate all muslims.

[–]Anouther 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hate Islam. Just don't hate all muslims.

Yes! I agree!

[–]Agnostic AtheistDarth_Sin 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hate Islam as well. Ironically, I did not start out that way. Heck, the first girl I dated is a Muslim. I lived in a Muslim majority neighborhood and my social circle was primarily Muslims throughout my childhood and adolescence. For those who are curious, I am a Malaysian.

However, when I had a crisis of faith in the second year of undergraduate studies, I decided to study the major religions in order to understand them and see which one I should pick. The more I studied religion, their tenets and their history, the more I got disgusted and appalled by them. I ended up being an agnostic atheist as a result.

As for Islam, its tenets, its principles and its actions make it one of the great evils of the world today. Islam as it stands now is as violent as Christianity in the Middle Ages. So the obvious answer to this is that Islam needs a reformation but considering the historical reality that Christianity's reformation took a hundred years (and more) as well as the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, it would be wise to assume that Islam would take as long if not longer and the death toll would be considerably higher because we have devastating weapons of war. Truly, Christianity's reformation took so many lives and that was in the medieval period with medieval weapons. Now we have cyberwarfare, nuclear weapons, etc.

Which is why, in my opinion, Islam needs to go away and be treated as how we treat the religions of Ancient Nords, Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Greeks. We simply cannot afford the time cost and the human cost of Islamic reformation.

[–]drowningfish 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are no moderates among the silent; only the unscrupulous.

Islam needs to reform.

[–]TheOblivionLord 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ex-Muslim from the UK here, british muslims are more conservative, i was treated like garbage by my entire town, my family were the only ones who still treated me as their own, im glad i left this death cult.

[–]neotropic9 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Islam is the worst religion today. A fair claim could be made that Christianity used to be the worst. But we are all waiting for that reform to come to Islam, too. Right now, Islam is the worst religion.

[–]Atheistwaldito 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel frustrated with the current situation aswell, and I feel you too. This is a huge problem we are facing as a society, and it seems Daesh is doing a pretty good job, making people like us hate islam. They have done it before and seems it has worked beautifully for them.

[–]Strong Atheisttimawesomeness 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hate all religions equally.

[–]ShadowCodeGaming 12ポイント13ポイント  (9子コメント)

Living in the Netherlands as well, I can 100% agree.

[–]austria7880 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

Is it true if you speak out against islam there the police intervenes and asks you to stop hate speech?

[–]gerryflap 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am dutch and I havent had any negative experience with muslims and have not heard such experiences from anyone I know. I dislike the 14-20 year old "muslim" youth, but I am pretty sure that their behaviour is not in any way accepted by their parents or by the islam.

I personally disagree with many parts of their belief, but I have also found that many muslims are nice people who don't mean any harm. We should arrest those who disrupt our way of living, those who force their laws and beliefs on us. But we should also accept that we can't agree with everyone and as long as they doe not hurt us, we should try to remain friendly to them as well. The chaos in Europe is fed by hate and misunderstanding from both sides, we should be nice when we can and only harsh when we must.

[–]Kangewalter 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you had told me in 1996 that in 20 years, problems in Europe would include honor killings, female genital mutilation, cartoonists being murdered for blasphemous cartoons, monthly religiously motivated massacres, I just wouldn't have believed you, I would have called you crazy. Why did we import these problems? Was it worth it?

[–]PastafarianNythonic 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

I understand that this is going to be a down voted comment, but I'm going to try anyways, this is not trying to make small of recent events (because it is absolutely atrocious that anyone could do something like this).

First and foremost, I'm an Atheist and the only one in my family and I love all people, because when it boils down to it, were all human. From the comments I've read and the OP's thread it just seems like this is some random Islam bash session stating that everyone Islamic is bad (or a version of that). It should be obvious by now that there are some bad apples within their religion, but there are hundreds of millions of good people apart of that religion as well and we can't just count them out of the picture.

Tl;dr: Not trying to make small of recent events, but there are good people within Islam, just like there are good people within other religions and bad people as well. Lets not get blinded and therefore say that everyone apart of a group is bad.

Tl;dr2: Trying to state that we should love rather than hate each other.

[–]MilkyWayian 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Islam now is like Christianity before Renaissance. In a 300-400 years Liberal-Democrats party will rule Saudi Arabia.

[–]Neaux_Fappe 72ポイント73ポイント  (29子コメント)

Holy fuck, people. I remember when this sub was at least passingly intellectual and serious. The comments here are just terrible. I don't support unregulated immigration, but neither do I condone this kind of inarticulate and thoughtless hatred. I expect more from atheists.

[–]Stantron 20ポイント21ポイント  (9子コメント)

Me too. This is really disturbing. Religion-bashing isn't what defines me as an athiest but it's clear that that is what defines this sub. Clearly the events of today were horrible and unforgivable but those aren't excuses for being bigoted. Intolerance is the problem here not the solution. Posts like these make me ashamed to be an athiest because it shows that this group can be just as bigoted and intolerant as any religion.

[–]prostetnic 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

/r/worldnews is taking over

[–]Neaux_Fappe 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is my fifth or sixth account. I keep deleting them and coming back because this site isn't quite what it used to be, at least to me.

There was a big to-do when this sub defaulted, and like people always tend to say when that happens, I wish it hadn't. Atheism should be the fresh air outside, not the stuffy mustiness of an old, mouldering tradition. It should be free, flexible and open. But many folks here are at least as petty and fundamentalist as the rest. It may be better to be a habitual believer who doesn't examine his religion than it is to discredit the "opting-out" that is atheism by scattering the brand of semi-literate punditry in evidence here all over the world.

[–]midhras 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had to scroll more than halfway down to find you, but thank you. You are worth it.

There was a time when I still cherished this one final belief: that atheism could be a stronghold for those who saw the benefit of doubt. If anything, the hatred and fear permeating this sub right now add fuel to the fire that is my conviction that it is folly to trust in atheism being the equivalent to modern-day enlightenment and the harbour of sane reasoning.

[–]waiting_is 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you're looking for Atheism+. It's meant to leave the bigotry behind.

[–]HumanistHjalmark 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

I came here to say "fuck ALL religion"

[–]Stinkfoot69 16ポイント17ポイント  (14子コメント)

For the life of me, I don't understand why libs and progressives (one in the same, if you ask me) defend Islam at length when Islam is virulently anti-homosexual (A death sentence in Islam) and anti-female.

[–]rafxgsy 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's because they see them as poor oppressed brown people. The left are the main ones who see Muslims by the colour of their skin yet they accuse all critics of being racist.

[–]Yetimang 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh please. You think Trump supporters who think we should ban all Muslims from immigrating are saying that because of well reasoned disagreements with the tenets and ideology of Islam?

Give me a break with this "Aha, you're the racist" bullshit. There's a difference between standing up for Islam and standing up for Muslims and if you don't see that, that's on you, not us.

[–]has_a_3_inch_penis 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm hold numerous highly liberal viewpoints. I don't defend Islam. I think Islam (the religion) is the scourge of the Earth, but I'm getting mighty sick and tired of being misrepresented.

This black and white thinking "you're either liberal or conservative; you're either with us or against us; if you're liberal you love Islam" has got to stop.

Being characterized as an Islam lover is only making me hate you people.

[–]OtherTastyBrainMeats 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

For the same reason I defend the right of people to be Christian or Buddhist, despite my distaste for both religions.

Or do you mean defending the religion itself? Fuck that. Christianity and Islam are close rivals for the amount of blood soaking their hands.

[–]brownberry 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I Agree with OP. I have no desire to place restrictions on others, but the fear, hate, and community changes are placing restrictions on our free, tolerant way of life. Thank you for having the balls to be less than pc and say something that needs to be said.

Everyone should have the freedom they desire. That means tolerant, athiest, politically correct people too.

[–]Otherkin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's generally better to be pro secularism than anti-religion. Hate is a difficult thing to work with and there's always the trap of hating something because it feels good. I don't hate Islam, I just want the world to be rational and secular.

[–]crackez 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

  • Theodore Roosevlet (1919)

[–]Agnostic Atheistolioster 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Islam is an enemy of civilized society.

[–]tarkthesharkjr 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the current islamic state terrorism has done anything it's show that there is no such thing a peaceful religion. I too, hate Islam, but by the same coin I hate every Abrahamic religion. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have caused more suffering in the world combined than any other force in human history. Islam may be the one in the spotlight this century, but never forget, all religion is toxic, all religion is evil.

[–]zak_on_reddit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP for what's it worth, I despise all religions.

They all have their own forms of oppression, brutality, misogyny, homophobia, etc.

[–]IHNE 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

My ideal religious type is someone who is passionate about talking of differences in religions and philosophy and science and stories and folklore.

Not this abuse.

[–]1_Marauder 67ポイント68ポイント  (100子コメント)

If you replace "Islam" with "religion" in your post, I agree.

[–]Mykeru 157ポイント158ポイント  (51子コメント)

It's the Mormon suicide bombings that really get me.

[–]Agnostic AtheistIrishB_Cubed 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

Watch out for those violent Jains!

[–]Cmyers1980 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And their damned cheese cloth covered water!

[–]cpqarray 46ポイント47ポイント  (2子コメント)

Utah is wasteland because of those radicals.

[–]Mykeru 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, it was a lush paradise before those damn Mormons showed up.

[–]clockworkdiamond 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was okay for the people who originally lived there that were slaughtered. Or the other people that they slaughtered just because they could.

[–]Phenakist 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't forget the Jehovas Witnesses. Knocking on your door screaming "WITNESS HIM!" right in your face, spittle everywhere, then proceeding to slap you across the jaw with a tome-like Bible.

[–]Anti-Theistscoyne15 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Correct response? Scream WITNESS ME and chromify yourself them chase after them with a torch and a Jerry can of guzzoline.

[–]Ua_Tsaug 17ポイント18ポイント  (17子コメント)

I know Mormons aren't violent extremists, but they were at one point. Just look up Porter Rockwell and Mountain Meadow's Massacre.

[–]noCake4u 43ポイント44ポイント  (11子コメント)

Lol. Everytime people hate on Islam some one gotta bring up another religion to remind us of their doing many decades/centuries ago. Can we live in the present guys? What's been happening for the recent years. It's Fucking islam.

[–]gelinrefira 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

The point is that it took centuries to defang Christianity and we still see shit from them today. It will take at least decades to nerf radical Islam. Meanwhile what do you expect from people who subscribe to medieval ideologies.

[–]lordperiwinkle 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree that the Mountain Meadow Massacre was awful, but as far as I know that was an aberration. The violence did not continue, it did not worsen, and the Mormons simply did not go in to crowded Gentile areas and commit any more mass murder. Their nastiness is mostly confined to their own offspring through forced child marriages, kicking boys out of their communities, and those awful camps where they kidnap kids to be "readjusted". Most of this crap is confined to the FLDS branch which mainstream Mormons loathe.

[–]Secular HumanistY2KNW 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not enough wives in this lifetime? Seems kinda greedy to me.

[–]blackarmchair 26ポイント27ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's asinine to pretend that all religions are the same. You're being dishonest if you say you're just as uncomfortable with Jaines as you are with Muslims.

[–]Secular HumanistYah-luna-tic 20ポイント21ポイント  (39子コメント)

I'm certainly no fan of Islam either but am able to "walk and chew gum simultaneously" and understand that the attacks in Paris and Belgium don't reflect all Muslims.

Are you suggesting that you'd have no problem with Islam if there weren't terrorist attacks and misogyny?

[–]gusty_bible 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

Are you suggesting that you'd have no problem with Islam if there weren't terrorist attacks and misogyny?

Blowing up buildings and the mistreatment of women are pretty big reasons to not like something. Take that away and Islam is a much less shitty religion. It's still shitty, just far less shitty.

[–]Secular HumanistYah-luna-tic 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

Blowing up buildings and the mistreatment of women are pretty big reasons to not like something.

The KKK considered themselves a very Christian organization but Christianity was not blamed for the lynchings, bombings, murders and other mayhem that they inflicted at their peak.

Take that away and Islam is a much less shitty religion. It's still shitty, just far less shitty.

Which is pretty much the point I'm getting at. Take away all of the extremist bullshit and Islam remains a "revealed" theistic religion (just like Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism etc.) that I would still be opposed to simply because it is by definition false.

[–]perturbert 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

I have much more patience for religions that don't include misogyny and violence as part of their central doctrines.

[–]gdj11 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

This type of attitude needs to go. Of course it doesn't reflect all Muslims. Any halfway intelligent person understands that. The problem is the lack of outcry by Islamists who claim these terrorists don't reflect true Islam. Sure, every now and then there's some small protest, but there's an overwhelming silence with the ongoing violence that is spreading in the name of Islam. If they're not going to try and fix their archaic "religion of peace", then they don't deserve to enjoy the same modern lifestyle other cultures do. If they can't keep their religion under control, then others will be forced to control it for them.

[–]Secular HumanistYah-luna-tic 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

This type of attitude needs to go.

You've missed my point. Even if all of the Muslims of the world manage to control their religion I'll still have a problem with Islam since at its core it is a false religion (just like any other theistic religion)... but clearly I won't have as much problem with that as I do ISIS.

The problem is the lack of outcry by Islamists who claim these terrorists don't reflect true Islam.

Do you mean something similar to how moderate American Christians stand up and speak against homophobia and fundamentalism?

Unfortunately it seems to have always been the case that small groups of fanatics, religious or otherwise, are able to run amok and subdue and even take over majorities. But with that said I agree with you wholeheartedly that the solutions to the problems in the Muslim world must be of their own making as efforts by others to attempt to control those only seem to make matters worse.

Frankly I'm becoming more and more convinced that any of our (U.S.) involvement in any way is making matters worse.

[–]want2playzombies 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

even if Muslims didnt blow themselves up every week islam is still a disgusting religion.

It is pro pedophilia infact the prophet was a pedophile, the man killed everyone who didnt agree with him and he is meant to be the perfect man chosen by god?.

The guy was influenced heavily by Judaism and copys most of the religion then even changes his mind on shit like where the holy place is, he used to tell people that Jerusalem was the holy place then changed it to mecca.

He would have poets killed that spoke critical of him what a fuck head

[–]OtherTastyBrainMeats 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

even if Muslims didnt blow themselves up every week islam is still a disgusting religion.

And so is fundy Christianity, and so is fundamentalist Judaism. So?

[–]Strong AtheistLeverWrongness 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

And homophobia. And atheofobia.

[–]Secular HumanistY2KNW 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the whole death penalty for leaving. And no bacon or booze.

[–]Borngrumpy 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

As an older Redditor I remember the world of the 70's and 80's, you never really heard much about Muslims or Islam, they were basically confined to the poor middle eastern countries, once the oil trade bought money to the middle east the entire world changed.

The only way Islam and terrorism will be beaten is by letting the money run out, most of the middle eastern countries will crumble back into the deserts and the Muslims will go back to hitting each other with sticks and stealing camels and the ones in western nations will no longer have the cash to do much.

[–]rufusadams 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Islamofascists aren't going to suddenly stop hating the West if we stop intervening militarily in the Middle East and/or stop supporting Israel. They hate you and I and everyone else in the West because we're non-believers and don't live under sharia law. Radical Islam is the biggest threat to liberal values in the world today yet I keep seeing nothing but excuses from people thinking we brought this upon ourselves with our foreign policy. Blaming all Muslims is one extreme and another, arguably just as ignorant, one is to believe that there isn't currently a war against Western values worldwide by Salafi-jihadists.

[–]fionnwanders 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

Fuck all religions. As an American I think Baptists and Mormons are the bigger thread to my way of life, but they all sustain each other.

Islam isn't the problem, religion is the problem. All of them.

[–]thekindlyman555 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I want my secular country back.

Slightly Relevant

[–]Brewe 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The same can and should be said for any of the major religions.

[–]Good_withoutGod 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Easy now wouldn't want Ben Afflec to call you a racist

[–]HitchSlap92 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

"It's gross! It's racist!"

[–]Cloud_Fish 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Islam needs to be torn out by the roots and burned until there is nothing left.

[–]MarxIzalias 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let's not forget that God invented the concentration camp.

[–]Oh_Help_Me_Rhonda 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never be so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance.

[–]absoluteskeptic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I want my progressive country with freedom and true liberalism back

It's not coming back

[–]DestinyPigeon 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

As with a lot of things the "don't hate Muslims" idea came with good intentions. The intention that people should be aware that not all Muslims are evil terrorists who want to destroy capitalist America. But, like so many things it was perverted, it became this rallying cry for forward thinking liberal people as a way to protest against people calling for punishments to "peaceful" Muslims and in our desperate efforts to be politically correct that rallying cry turned into "Love Muslims, they are peaceful people, they're not affiliated with ISIS, they don't want any of this" and while even this still seems inherently "good" It's drawing attention away from that fact that Islam is an awful faith that holds beliefs so backward and, frankly, horrible that it shouldn't exist.

That said, the fact is that it does, and the fact is that there are peaceful Muslims who do want nothing to do with this and they shouldn't be punished or discriminated against because a select few of the people that believe in Islam want to do terrible things. What needs to happen is we need to be more aware of the bad side of Islam.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is we need more posts like this.

[–]Anti-TheistStealerofSuns 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not all progressives are SJW idiots. I'm a progressive, and fuck all religion.

[–]JeRouleAvecOCB 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why religion is dangerous to mankind? Religious people can't live under the tyranny of men who do exist, but they are fine to enforce the tyranny of a god that doesn't exist.

[–]KJ_Jeller 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hate bad people regardless of religion, or lack thereof.