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Do conservatives actually believe that Donald Trump is a conservative? (self.askaconservative)

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[–]SchwarzeSonne_Medievalist -2ポイント-1ポイント  (17子コメント)

No one in American politics is far right, or right wing at all.

[–]monomach[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (14子コメント)

Not like Hitler-right, but Ted Cruz is further to the right than any mainstream party in any democracy in the world. You have to look at dictatorships to find anyone further to the right.

In any case, I was originally using "right" in the way the US media commonly uses it rather than talking about how many degrees anyone is from fascism.

Conservative parties all through Europe are pretty much what we call Democrats.

[–]pumpyourstillskin 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not like Hitler-right

Hitler was a Socialist. He was as far left as you can get.

[–]monomach[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

No, Hitler co-opted a beer hall veteran's socialist movement and killed off all of the actual socialists in it over time. Once he got his base set, he started throwing socialists in concentration camps. In fact, he put them in camps before he even started putting jews in camps.

Hitler was one of the greatest enemies socialism ever had.

[–]pumpyourstillskin 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

LOL

Are you kidding me, Carl?

[–]monomach[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Saying Hitler = socialist is this is the kind of "I learned my history from facebook graphics with two sentences on them" understanding of politics that has no place in political discussion. Christ, read Mein Kampf if you want to know how Hitler felt about socialism. He clearly shits all over them.

Here's a basic primer for you: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hitler_and_socialism

As far as Hitler was concerned, socialists caused Germany to lose WW1 and were public enemy #1. He flat-out BANNED the German Socialist Party.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]monomach[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, that was from 1920, before he purged the socialists. That was written to gain worker support for the new party. Again, he killed all of the socialists in his party once his nationalist base was secure.

    In Mein Kampf...again, the book that demonizes socialism throughout just five years later...he disowned it, referring to it as "the so-called program of the movement."

    Almost none of those were actually put into place when he actually gained power. In reality, Hitler actually banned collective bargaining and the right to strike. In 1934, he passed the "Charter of Labor," which essentially made the corporations owned by party members into an aristocracy over its employees. In socialism, the workers own the company they work for and elect management. In Nazi fascism, corporate ownership of capital ruled everything.

    He was a fascist, which is as far right as you can get. This is accepted by historians. It's not even something they have to debate.

    This would be like me saying that the Republican Party today supports making union membership easy to get, raising the minimum wage, and expanding unemployment. This is, of course, very false; while they were once a part of the official platform, everyone who supports those things has been purged from the party. Lucky for them, unlike socialists under Hitler, they weren't killed.

    You're letting your ideology revise history.

    [–]SchwarzeSonne_Medievalist -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Law and Justice in Poland would disagree on that count, as would FN in France, and FPO in Austria.

    [–]ShieldoftheWolfConstitutionalist 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

    We're Conserving American values and traditions, not European values and traditions. Especially those European traditions that most often align with American liberalism.

    [–]SchwarzeSonne_Medievalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    American values are avarice and hedonism. They ought to be eliminated.

    [–]ShieldoftheWolfConstitutionalist 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    So you want to eliminate property rights and the pursuit of happiness. Everything that America values has already been codified in our Constitution.

    Americans value their independence. They work to build for themselves what other societies (like Europe) would much rather take from others. I would describe Avarice as having much more in common with the populist covetousness of socially collectivist societies.

    It's not that America is Hendoistic, it simply affords one the freedom to choose their pursuits. It also requires a lot of hard work from the pursuer to become successful. In contrast you have countries in Europe actually considering (some even implementing) hendoistic basic income policies for those who would much rather stew in the comfort of their own meritocracy than work for a living.

    [–]SchwarzeSonne_Medievalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I support property rights, inasmuch as they are reserved to the people that have proven they are worthy of such. The US and Western Europe are the same entity at this point. Stop trying to create this dichotomy of "noble, independent America" and "evil Eurocommies."

    "Pursuit of Happiness" is hedonism. Freedom of any degree inevitably results in decay.

    [–]ShieldoftheWolfConstitutionalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    proven they are worthy

    Property rights under dictatorial conditions is no property rights at all. You don't get to choose who is worthy to keep their own property and thank God you never will.

    "evil Eurocommies."

    Fascist ideologies that pursue utopian ideals of human perfection or try to regulate the rights of peoples self-determined actions (speech, assembly, religion, self-defense, property etc.) are of themselves, fundamentally evil.

    Freedom of any degree inevitably results in decay.

    I've heard this all before. "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength". You would have a bright dystopian future with INSOC.

    [–]SchwarzeSonne_Medievalist -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He who has the most firepower gets to choose. No amount of "human rights" rhetoric changes that. A functional society prohibits those who would poorly use property from having it.

    fundamentally evil

    why

    Orwell wrote some good porn, but not much else. Huxley, though, was on the ball.

    Look where freedom gets you. Your daughters will call themselves men and your sons will masturbate to anime porn and never give you grandchildren. This is freedom. At least good old Soviet communism has the sense to prevent and punish this behavior.

    [–]Jess_than_three 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No one in American politics is far right, or right wing at all.

    The United States is politically right of center relative to the word at large.

    [–]SchwarzeSonne_Medievalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't particularly care for relative positions. The United States was founded by leftists and remains firmly leftist to this day, if less so than some of our European friends.