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Sexist comments from Indian Wells CEO (imgur.com)

Atlaffinity75Miroslav Mecir が 投稿

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[–]HankMoodysPenis 11ポイント12ポイント  (29子コメント)

Am i sexist if I think that if women want equal prize pay as men they should play best of 5 sets in the grand slams as well?

[–]Atlaffinity75Miroslav Mecir[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

No. I don't see sexism everywhere I look.

Counterpoint is some best of 5 matches are boring blowouts. Some 3 set women's matches are compelling.

[–]HankMoodysPenis 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I was legitimately asking, my counter to your counter is if I pay a decent sum to see Serena Williams play, she should be out there for longer than 35 minutes.

[–]Atlaffinity75Miroslav Mecir[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe.

I do think 5 sets is often too much for tv audiences.

At most tournaments they play the same. I guess I don't see the GS prize money as some huge issue being equal.

I'm a tennis nut so I'd rather see an amazing 5 set match. I would personally pay more but then sometimes you get Lendl v Mecir and it seems to be worth less than a good women's match.

[–]asshair -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not simply about what he said. Just talking about facts, yeah Men's tennis is more entertaining than women's.

But to invalidate all of the successes and accomplishments of female tennis players by saying it was the men that made them successful? That's sexist. To say that they should "get on their knees"? There's no question that that is sexist.

[–]danhamm 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How can you possibly say that "men's tennis is more entertaining than women's" is a fact? 😂 there are a large number of people that follow only women's tennis because they find it more entertaining than men's. And vice versa. And that's okay, because entertainment is subjective.

[–]asshair 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well Men's tennis does drive bigger crowds and objectively because of the consistent dominance of men and faster paced (more entertaining) game we could say yeah, generally, it is more entertaining.

Now that doesn't mean everyone everywhere finds the ATP more entertaining than the WTA, but in general it tends to be true.

And that's okay.

[–]chewwwyy 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

the wta has already offered to play 5 sets multiple times. the tournaments have said no. what do you expect the women to do? refuse to stop playing until someone wins 3 sets?

[–]KyleGHalepop, halepop, oh, hale hale hale halepop! ba doom doom doom 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

what do you expect the women to do?

Well for starters, "we refuse to play until you let us play 5-set matches."

[–]btaz 14ポイント15ポイント  (10子コメント)

You should read the letter Venus wrote to convince Wimbledon to give equal pay to both men and women. Women are ready to play best of 5. There has been no effort ( that I know of so I could be wrong) from the organizers to move the women's matches to best of 5. So unless they are given that opportunity and it fails miserably, one cannot say they do not deserve it.

[–]watda99 -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Women are not clamoring for best of 5. They might say they're for it, because they don't really have to do it. It's like women saying they're for women being included in the draft. They don't really expect there to actually be a draft. They say it to pretend they're for equality and are not hypocrites.

The reason they don't want best of 5 is not just that it's physically much harder, it's because if you're a top female player, you don't want anything to change. You want to keep the rules exactly the same because you're succeeding in the current system. Make a big change like that and it could mean the end of you.

So no, I don't believe Venus Williams one bit. Especially with her health problems. No way in hell she actually wants best of 5. I remember Sharapova once said she thanked god she didn't have to play best of 5, or they'd have to take her out of matches on a stretcher.

[–]btaz 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

One, Venus wrote that letter way back before she was diagnosed.

Two, love the subtle misogyny in your whole argument.

[–]KyleGHalepop, halepop, oh, hale hale hale halepop! ba doom doom doom 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It takes effort to explain why something is misogynistic. It takes no effort to just label something as such.

[–]btaz 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Since it is not obvious to you -

  1. His argument is that women are basically saying that they want to play 5 sets but it is all talk and they are only doing it because they don't to show up as hypocrites.

  2. Somehow Sharapova's quotes are believable whereas Venus' claim of playing 5 sets is completely unbelievable.

Women run marathons and take part in a lot of endurance sports. Other sports like soccer have the same rules as the men in terms of time. Is the quality the same ? No. Ofcourse not. We already know and accept that. Women's games are simply different. So moving to best of 5 sets will not change anything except that the quality and the drama will be different. Is it a bad thing ? Maybe. Maybe not. We will not know unless we try it.

Now regarding the argument that the current crop of players still prefer it to be best of 3 - of course they will be fine with it. But that is not the question. The question is "If women want the same money as men at Grand Slams, they would need to play best of 5 matches. Would they still oppose it?" Why doesn't ITF actually ask this question ? /u/watda99's answer is yes based on his misogyny. I say let ITF ask the question and see the answers from the players.

[–]KyleGHalepop, halepop, oh, hale hale hale halepop! ba doom doom doom 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd love for women to play bo5. I can't remember it was in the post you're responding to or another post of mine, but bo5 reduces fluke wins, which means stronger pairings in the later rounds.

[–]tl_cs 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Call it misogyny all you like. The guy has a great point. If you're confident your viewpoint isn't going to make a difference either way, why not go with the viewpoint that the public will like the most?

With that said though, I'm not convinced best of 3 is the best choice for everyone. The WTA is volatile enough as it is. Doing best of 5 should improve female players' conditioning and separate the "men from the boys" a bit more, if you'll pardon the pun.

[–]btaz 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

The guy has a great point.

The guy has a shitty point. Somehow Sharapova's quotes are more valid than Venus' only because it fits his worldview of where women's tennis is.

[–]simpler3 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

What do tournaments have against it ? Any links ?

Maybe the majority of players are not up for it ? or maybe they cause too many one side matches ? Maybe too many injuries ? Air time ?

There must be a valid reason.

[–]btaz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The biggest problem is scheduling. Other than that if there's any other issue I have no idea. Also I do not recall if any tournament has even thought of this.

[–]Gluecksritter90 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure if sexist, but ill-informed for sure. Women have offered to play Bo5 if it's that what it takes to get equal prize money, but there's no interest from the slams because:

Having women play best of 5 would require a massive expansion of the tournament sites of the slams (to fit in all the R1 and R2 matches).

TV stations HATE best of 5 in the early rounds because it makes scheduling their program almost impossible (is that match going to take 90 minutes or 5 hours?), they frequently end up with 2 matches they wanted to show being played simultaneously and then suddenly none.

[–]DragonToothGarden -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah. I'm female and I find it ridiculous that women expect or demand the same salary for playing far less tennis. The training and conditioning that go into making yourself a competitive 5-set player, and what 5-set tournies bring to the table in the form of sponsorship and revenue, make a night and day difference in the ultimate game.

[–]GiveMeAUserNishikori!! -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yes, because you're not proposing that men should play best of three like women. If men and women should be paid for the same number of sets played, then what's stopping men from saying "fuck this injustice, we should also play best of three"?

[–]KyleGHalepop, halepop, oh, hale hale hale halepop! ba doom doom doom 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

what's stopping men from saying "fuck this injustice, we should also play best of three"?

Five-set matches are more likely not to end with fluke results. They're better than three-set matches for the top players, who are the ones with the power in the ATP.

[–]GiveMeAUserNishikori!! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's beside the point. The point I'm making is if ATP players are not happy that they play best-of-five and get paid the same as women, they can ask to play best-of-three too. For whatever reason, they don't ask for that. So, that's their choice.

[–]HankMoodysPenis -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Cause that is a disservice to the fans.

[–]danhamm 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

5 set matches aren't always "a service to fans": straight-sets blowouts aren't particularly entertaining to watch; long 5-setters can be difficult for fans not at the site to get into, and are problematic for TV; and as much as many seem to think fans 'deserve' a match of a certain length, the players don't actually owe you anything, they just want to win as quickly as possible.

[–]GiveMeAUserNishikori!! -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Case closed then. Stop whining about best of five.

[–]HankMoodysPenis 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Saying cased closed doesn't close the case. It's been stated in the comments already, there are women (like Venus) who have stated they should be playing best of 5, and I agree with them. Stop being a dumb confrontational twat.

[–]GiveMeAUserNishikori!! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Case closed because men made their choice to play best of five. It doesn't matter what Venus has said, doesn't matter for what reasons they're choosing to play best of five (disservice to fans or whatever). They're choosing to play best of five. They can stop, but no, they continue to do that. That's why case is closed. It must suck to be so stupid as you to need an extensive explanation for something simple like this. I sympathize, lol.