全 141 件のコメント

[–]Murilomendes 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

In Brazil happens the SAME thing. One time in USP (the leading college in Brazil) a monarchist would make a speech. But the liberals students in the audience screamed and howled so high that the man couldn't speak.

But was not the worst. Few years later, in the same college, a cuban writer and dissident, Yoani Sánchez, who criticizes Castro's government was making a speech, and the liberals made the same thing. They screamed and howled in a way that no one could listen her talking. Liberals do not tolerate opposite opinions.

[–]grendel_x86 70ポイント71ポイント  (12子コメント)

Off the internet, this is the norm.

I've become convinced that most SWJs are a poorly executed joke or 14 year olds.

*source: I'm a damn-dirty-commie-liberal living in Chicago.

[–]Rhawk187 24ポイント25ポイント  (10子コメント)

I think it's mostly restricted to college campuses, but eventually those people are going to graduate, many of which will be unemployed and will keep complaining online about how they are being held down.

[–]grendel_x86 14ポイント15ポイント  (9子コメント)

Oddly enough, I worked in a college for a decade +, and an art school at that, it's really not that common there either. I would go as far as saying that this is a high school problem. Maybe college freshman.

Scumbag-college-liberal-meme is just really not that common, they are just loud and annoying.

[–]Rhawk187 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've been working at a college for the past 14 years, and it seems like a very recent change. When Bush was president, I expected the resistance, it's easy to criticize those in charge when they don't represent you, but it seems like it's gotten much worse, very quickly.

That said, my university might be particular bad, it made some national news last year when the student body president tried to appropriate the Ice Bucket Challenge with her own "Blood Bucket Challenge" requesting that the university completely divest themselves from Israel. Needless to say the Israeli university professors and students employed by and attending the university weren't pleased.

[–]grendel_x86 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I just take that as part of the 5% of all populations are assholes.

Sometimes those assholes get more attention, sometimes the news lines up w/ their bullshit. It seems to come in waves. I saw this happen w/ the protest-heads and then the group of young-republicans.

Right now we have this weird environment where college administrators are pandering do students in unhealthy ways. They know the Obama administration has stopped the roadblocks & obstructions that they laid down (look at the fight over gainful employment & where colleges are spending money). This is aligning with the revelations that schools have been covering up legitimate dangers / rapes, etc. The knee-jerk overcompensation is to let students bully the school into weird things like letting students get away with pressuring faculty into giving easy grades. Higher ed is in chaos, and the inmates are running the asylum. Part of the reason you are seeing so many groups of faculty unionizing is that they have always just taken that they were going to be abused by administration, but taking it from students and parents too, its just way too much.

Sorry for the rant... good luck, I see this storm being almost done.

[–]tehForce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

When that 5% gets another 5 or 10% involved is when things get rough.

[–]promethean7 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yikes, in art school. Definitely see the opposite a ton. It might be where im going to school, but my classmates wear "SJW" like a badge of honor.

[–]grendel_x86 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe it's the school.

In my experience, as they grow up, they realize how "it's more complicated".

[–]promethean7 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, Im sure they will. Right now its SJW liberal idealist

[–]CaptnCrumble [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think that's largely true. Anecdotally speaking, I'm in my third year and I'm doing some third-year and first-year politics classes. There are certainly more of the annoying-loud-liberal types in first-year but most of them are okay with hearing and debating opposing views.

[–]Wrastlins [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oddly enough, I worked in a college for a decade +, and an art school at that, it's really not that common there either. I would go as far as saying that this is a high school problem. Maybe college freshman.

Idk man I just graduated from a conservativish college and it was still pretty rampant.

[–]Jibrish#NEVERCRUZ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Live in Chicago - this is not the norm from what I've encountered. It's hard to say what the norm is. 50/50 reasonable / unreasonable.

Personal experience, obviously.

[–]tehForce 48ポイント49ポイント  (31子コメント)

I was schooled recently on the fact that there are people that feel strongly about the Constitution yet don't support all of the ammendments. I remember during the Reagan and Bush I years that a really big deal was made about freedom of speech vs burning of the American flag.

From the liberal side there was a lot of screaming about the first amendment. The one thing that I found funny was that Tipper Gore was leading the charge for sensoring that bad bad gangster rap music. I keep wondering where all of those loud supporters of the second amendment have gone but I also recognize that leftists will use the tools at hand to get the job done and move on.

It's all funny in a peculiar way but I've grown to be more a conservative through recognizing that we need the whole document, not less and perhaps maybe just a little bit more.

*edit wow...I had a seriously tough brain fart.

[–]P4L1M1N0 52ポイント53ポイント  (23子コメント)

Why can't people disagree with specific parts of it? It's probably a good thing to think critically about such an important document.

[–]LoneBurro 40ポイント41ポイント  (12子コメント)

Anyone is free to disagree, or think critically about the Constitution, but as an American they're still have to abide by it. All of it. It's certainly not gospel, but it is the highest law of the land. If there are portions that are wrong or unjust, there is a clear process to change it. It's been done numerous times in our history. What they shouldn't be doing is trying to find ways to undermine the Constitution because they know there's not enough actual support to change it the right way, all while paying lip-service to how much they supposedly respect it.

[–]Rhawk187 13ポイント14ポイント  (11子コメント)

Yeah, I think the founders would have been surprised to see how few times we've actually amended the Constitution.

[–]tehForce 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think it's, at the least, an amazing design that it is so hard to change.

[–]Rhawk187 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is it really though? Are there really so few things that 3/4 of the states can agree on?

[–]NinjaPirateKing 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

Of course not. But there's no way I'm supporting Jim's amendment after what he did to kill my education bill.

[–]Rhawk187 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is why I like the idea of Article V Conventions, skip Congress and their internal bickering.

[–]SnazzyNannersz [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I totally disagree. Why would they even make it then? The goal is absolutely to not change it at all. America is a constitutional republic and not a true democracy. Our founding fathers came from oppression and they knew exactly what was needed to stop it.

[–]easyasNYC [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The founding fathers were in no way oppressed. They were some of the richest and most powerful people in the colonies.

[–]tehForce [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You don't have to be poor to be oppressed. Oppression is about freedom or lack thereof. Money != Freedom.

[–]easyasNYC [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Which freedoms did they not have? I don't think not being to democratically decide the manner in which you pay taxes really counts as oppression.

[–]tehForce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

One goal was to make it hard to change, I think.

[–]Rhawk187 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They changed it 10 times immediately after making it. They certainly expected it to change.

[–]tehForce 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's part of my point. They can and do.

[–]unclerudy 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

What specific part do you disagree with and why?

[–]P4L1M1N0 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

I was just making a comment about how its important for citizens to think critically about the founding document of their democracy, not really critiquing the constitution.

[–]unclerudy 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

No problem. I think we should get rid of both the 16th and 17th amendments. The 16th allows the scope of the government to excessive expand, based on a large source of money. The 17th amendment decoupled the responsibility of senators to their home states, and makes the position much more than it should be.

[–]LukeInDenver 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Could you elaborate on your grievance with the 17th amendment? I haven't given it much thought either way, but you prompted me to re-read it and it sounds fairly reasonable to me.

[–]unclerudy 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Before the 17th amendment, the state legislators themselves would pick who the senators would be to represent the state. This made the senators beholden to the legislators of the state they came from. They could be recalled at any time, and served at the will of the elected body. While once removed from the people, they still had their individual state as their first priority.

With the 17th amendment, you made senators directly elected, which does give more voice to the people directly, but also makes senators no different from representatives, just with longer terms, and less of them. It also gives power to elect the senators by just a majority of people, instead of a majority of elected positions. Before the 17th amendment, large cities had less influence on who was elected senator. The whole point of the senate was to represent the interest of the states, while the house was to represent the interests of the people themselves.

[–]LukeInDenver 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn. Good shit. Definitely worth reading up on. seems to make a lot of sense.

[–]P4L1M1N0 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally I actually find some issue with the 2nd (of all things). It was meant to ensure Americans would be able to form a militia against the very real possibility of an oppressive regime - nowadays it's used to ensure that rational gun control can't be put in place. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of the restrictions on firearms that are spouted about everywhere, but the idea that an 18-year old can buy a rifle but not a six pack of beer is crazy.

[–]tehForce 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that is what separates Liberals from Conservatives. A liberal might want to tweek the second a bit where a conservative says bay, it is what it is.

Personally, I'm happy with the Constitution that we have and simply want spjs to uphold it.

[–]brianalmon 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

What more people must understand is that while conservatives generally believe in universal rights, leftists have tactics. Freedom of speech was a great tool for the left when they were in the minority, but now that they are in the cultural driver's seat they want to censor us. It was never an ideal, it was simply a tactic to be used as necessary.

They will appeal to our beliefs in universal rights when it suits their purposes.

[–]tehForce 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what I'm learning too.

[–]TurningItIntoASnakeConservative 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'd be pretty okay with getting rid of the 16th amendment lol

[–]MedayekMan 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

and the 17th once we give a shit about our local and state elections.

[–]MRB88 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

More than that! Passage of the 17th Amendment destroyed the partner relationship between the States and the Federal government and turned States into subservient political sub entities. Essentially, the States were placed in the position of the colonies pre-revoultion. Since passage, the Federal government has acted in similar ways to the British Crown in the late 1700s. Our founders are spinning in their graves that their Republic has devolved into tyrannical mob rule.

[–]tehForce 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wesley Snipe's would be cool with that too, lol.

[–]tupacsnoducket 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

"The leftest use the tools on hand..."

LoL thank goodness the clear minded and pure arm of the right did not one thing morally grey or outright wrong in the same era. Tis the left nay not the right that has but something something.

People try to get their way. Also everyone hated Tipper except Tipper supporters, the right was right there with her.

[–]bengine 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." - Associate Justice Louis Brandeis

My favorite quote on the subject.

[–]stupidaccountname 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

He's doing an AMA in the Trump subreddit right now.

[–]veritas8911Conservative 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

Can you link to it?

[–]JablesRadio 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because this is TRUE liberalism. TRUE liberalism is more dependent on freedom of speech than conservatism. Don't let the loud-mouthed progressives (most of the media, Reddit, nearly anyone in academia) distort what they truly represent.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

LOL True liberalism is conservatism. You have progressives and conservatives, and I think both sides believe themselves liberals, but I think it's safe to say that progressives have no shred of true liberalism at their core when every value is based upon authoritarianism. Progressives can call themselves what they want, even "benevolent" (which I believe they generally think they are, even though their policies are not benevolent in practice), but "liberal" is a straight up lie.

[–]CarolinaPunk#NEVERTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ehh no Conservatives are classical liberals.

[–]KumonRoguing 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

As someone born in the late 90's, all these people saying this is the norm know people I'd like to meet. Most of my friends from school are #SmellingTheBern

[–]lisa_frank420 50ポイント51ポイント  (30子コメント)

this guy will be a conservative in a few years when he realizes that yes, your ideology really IS that fragile.

[–]bloodfoxtrue 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm probably that person. Was pretty liberal, and thought it was the left that tend to be more objective and open-minded. It didn't take long before my narrative started falling apart like a house of cards.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]343GuiltyShart 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not OP, enjoyed the article very much. Thanks!

[–]CynicalBastard3118Goldwater Conservative 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

Maybe. I was a liberal, albeit, fairly rational when I was younger.

[–]IGOA2BBYKEEPINGITG 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, I'm still fairly young(compared to some of the guys in this sub), But I went from conservative because my family was, to liberal because of "idealism"- like if the world was a perfect place, to a more moderate stance, which I think I've reached plateau at, which isn't really liberal or conservative anymore, just common sense, I don't really take a hard line "conservative or liberal" approach to anything, I like Rand Paul, Trump(kind of, I think), Bernie(not everything, some stuff he believes is just off the deep end, but it's not possible anyways). there's more than a single way to solve a problem it doesn't have to be straight tow line (R) or (D).

[–]JexInfiniteCruz Conservative [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

My grandfather commented on my conservatism and how I've 'figured it out' about 30 years before most people do. Age doesn't have anything to do with political ideology, just how much you're willing to understand.

[–]presque_isle 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

"If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty, you have no brain."

[–]ThePizzaB0y -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can replace brain with job and it works beautifully as well

[–]tupacsnoducket 33ポイント34ポイント  (4子コメント)

LoL. The right can and is just as idiotic as the left, grow up dude, there are idiots everywhere.

[–]Groo_Grux_King 16ポイント17ポイント  (15子コメント)

Really depends. I think a lot of young liberals identify that way for social issues, not fiscal/economic ones. If anything this guy will probably become a jaded moderate.

As a millennial libertarian, I get disgusted by the far-right on social issues just as much as I laugh at the left. The left constantly has a victim complex, but the far-right seems to have a problem in that they refuse to even consider open dialogue.

Liberals are pro-environment, fearful of climate change, and want something to be done? Right: "fuck you hippie, climate change is a hoax!"

Liberals are horrified by gun violence and want an open dialogue for solutions - like, "2nd Amendment is fine, but if we all agree you shouldn't be able to own a grenade launcher, maybe you also shouldn't be able to own automatic weapons, or high-capacity magazines, or hollow-point rounds? You can keep your handguns and shotguns and rifles" Right: "fuck you, I'm gonna keep 'em all! The founding fathers with their muskets had every intention of me having an arsenal of all of these things!"

Liberals tolerate religion but don't want Judeo-Christian values imposed on all of society - like when it comes to homosexuality, or perhaps addressing abortion from a non-religious angle and having a scientific conversation about "life"? Right: "Nope. Bible says so."

I'm not really "with" either side here, but it troubles me that so many conservatives can poke holes in liberal ideology all day, but some of them fail to recognize how some of their own ideology isn't universally infallible either.

[–]MRB88 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah...no. You have a fundamentally flawed view of the disagreements between today's political philosophies.

I personally find our nation's laws on abortion, restrictions on gun ownership, and affirmative action abhorrent - not because of the underlying subject necessarily - but because they are imposed by an authoritarian central government acting outside the scope of power granted by the people. In each of the areas you have mentioned, the Federal government has usurped power specifically delegated to the States through creative regulation, unconstitutional laws, and sophistic Court opinions. Why should I impose my individual moral stances, however popular, on the rest of the nation? Why should a small, centralized Federal bureaucracy subject to hijacking and corruption, be able to regulate my life more than absolutely necessary to ensure the safety of others? The catch-all response is 'social progress' but this necessarily relays on diminishing the freedom of others.

Unions, Black Lives Matter, Greenpeace - All these groups exist because they feel that the individual is incapable of making 'correct' choices and need to be told what to do by the collective will of the organization. When the "common sense" policy advocated goes against the actual common sense of a population unwilling to subordinate their individual interests to that of a nebulous greater good, these groups attempt to use the point of a gun to force compliance.

The problem is that the 'progressive' elements in this country are the only ones who view themselves as infallible. It involves a supreme selfishness that discounts any alternative view.

"Obviously gay marriage is right so why shouldn't we disregard the millions of people who disagree with me? We need to fix that at the Supreme Court so that we can bring people kicking and screaming into the 21st century!"

"Obviously global warming is an issue, so we should force cars to lower emissions. Who cares if the increased costs make it impossible for people to move from place to place? What I want is more important than what they want!"

"Obviously guns are bad, they kill people! Restricting the rights of others so I feel safe is the only thing that makes logical sense!"

The voice of anyone who dares disagree with the orthodoxy is shouted down with shrill personal attacks and transparent appeals to emotion. Views that differ from the acceptable narrative, even well-established scientific views, are verboten and those who express those views are heretics.

That is what is at stake today - a clear choice between a government that promotes individual liberty and one that imposes collectivist tyranny. As a libertarian millennial, the left's work over the past 10 years individual liberties, freedom of choice, and intellectual debate disgusts me far more than any specific policy stance. Stopping this onslaught of fascist thought control is I will work until my dying breath to promote the liberty of all people to think, act, and do as best benefits their own interests.

[–]Gloosqap -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your argument is good, there is a case to be made for a federal government that is becoming more powerful as time passes. I think you chose some terrible examples though.

For starters, the supreme court legalizing gay marriage is not an act that reduces the liberty of the nation, because gay people getting married simply doesn't affect anyone that disagrees with it in a meaningful way. No one dies, no one is worse off, because gay people can have a ceremony and receive a certificate and benefits from the state. Also, no one is forcing catholic priests or the like to marry gay people. In terms of individual liberties, the supreme court decision expanded them in the most literal sense - by increasing the amount of people able to make a certain decision at their pleasure.

Secondly, climate change is real. It exists, and there is a scientific consensus that it is anthropogenic. If you accept that point, which the federal government of the US does, and which has the support of the entire scientific community, then weighing the outcomes of "sea levels rise and suddenly Florida/Louisiana/Texas/etc. are facing catastrophe" vs. "my fuel is more expensive it's harder to get around and engage in commerce" becomes less about authoritarianism and more about the fact that on a national level, the most effective regulating force is the federal government and that unimpeded climate change results in your negative scenario anyway, among other things.

Views that differ from the acceptable narrative, even well-established scientific views, are verboten and those who express those views are heretics.

I just want to address the scientific views part. Anyone has the right to hold whatever views they choose, and it's unfortunate that you have had, or have seen, personal attacks resulting from differing views. In most cases, that is inexcusable (to a reasonable degree, ie someone has the view they can kill whomever they want is not acceptable). In cases of science, then it is more clear cut. If you believe in homeopathy, you're ignorant. If you believe evolution is false, you're ignorant. If you believe nuclear fusion is impossible, you're ignorant. It's a 'definitional' assessment in those cases, and should be met with education. My main point here is don't confuse personal views with objectively incorrect anti-scientific ones, I think it weakens your argument here. Hard sciences don't have a liberal bias. Also don't forget that republicans refuse to acknowledge climate change in the house and senate, and they got elected, so they haven't necessarily been shouted down.

Thirdly, unions don't exist because they feel "the individual is incapable of making 'correct choices' and needs to be told what to do by the collective will of the organization." That may be the unfortunate end result of some unions, but the reason they exist is to allow labourers to bargain collectively against their employers. Ideally what they bargain for is decided by the members, and there are certainly still unions today that meet and make decisions with their members. So they don't exist for the reason you said. Don't know a whole lot about BLM or Greenpeace.

[–]JexInfiniteCruz Conservative [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

For starters, the supreme court legalizing gay marriage is not an act that reduces the liberty of the nation, because gay people getting married simply doesn't affect anyone that disagrees with it in a meaningful way.

Not true. It imposes upon the first amendment rights of religious institutions. It creates a contradiction within the constitution, when it didn't need to be, and also showed how the Supreme Court was willing to make unconstitutional decisions, which is honestly terrifying. It was also already covered by the 10th amendment anyway, and states could have just held votes for it.

[–]brettpilkington07 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How does allowing gay people to marry each other in non-religious ceremonies infringe on the first amendment rights of religious institutions? Obviously, if the Supreme Court said that churches need to perform those marriages it would be, but I am curious about what you mean by that.

[–]JexInfiniteCruz Conservative [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All the smart conservatives I know recognise that the climate does indeed change, but that all proposed solutions will either do nothing, and/or have massive negative affects on us.

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol you sound like you've never met a liberal or a conservative and have only read about them online.

[–]johnknoefler 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Liberals tolerate religion

That's pure bullshit.

[–]lurkingforawhile 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you mind saying why you think this? Not being antagonistic or anything, just curious on your view point.

[–]Wensleydale_Gaming 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you knew anything about firearms you'd know that you can't walk into a gun store and buy an M79 grenade launcher and take it home with you.

I know what your overall message entails (that both sides have awful aspects about them) but it's pretty obvious that the anti-2nd argument is a poor one.

[–]chabanaisStronger than derp. 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Seems like you have a poor understanding of both sides.

[–]Kartavious 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

This sounds like a good caricature of both sides. Which is what is portrayed if you don't spend all your free time digging into politics.

[–]Groo_Grux_King 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

"I disagree, but won't explain why". Thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

[–]chabanaisStronger than derp. -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly, it's not worth my time. Sounds like an /r/politics joke post to me.

[–]mericaftw 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Democrat here. I'd heard for so long growing up that Liberals were hot headed egotists jumping at the bit to silence dissent. When I became one, I thought that description absurd--maybe some, but most?

Then I went to college. And became ashamed. I'm sorry, on behalf of my Party, for some of the closed minded shit y'all have to deal with.

[–]Alexlincoln2Cruzio 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

This is what real liberalism looks like. An actual belief in maintaining the liberties and freedoms of individuals, even those you may detest. Leftism has infected half of America's politics, and most of Europe's. Its leftism that's fragile. The ideology of Roosevelt I and II, JFK ect, was liberal. Jimmy Carter and LBJ were leftists, as is Obama. Clinton acted like a liberal not a leftist while in office, although he seems to fully in the tank for his illiberal legally separated wife

[–]gprime#NeverTrump 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The definition of liberalism you're using is essentially that of classical liberalism, and in line with how most of Europe still uses the term. Fair enough. But then I would suggest you need a very serious history lesson if you believe either Roosevelt was a classical liberal.

[–]BarrettBuckeyeconstitutional conservative 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Roosevelts were leftists too. Both of them expanded the size of government which is intrinsically leftist.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

No, neither Roosevelts were very good. FDR is basically Satan to conservativism.

[–]tupacsnoducket 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well he did do all the things they said would ruin the country, saved the world, saved the country and the we rolled right in to the greatest economic era in history. Its pretty infuriating when the guy you hate gets it that right.

[–]marklyon 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

By kicking the can. You might not have noticed, but some of the chickens have already returned and are looking for a home.

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

We were already a world industrial power, and then we became the only major one without damage to repair after WW2. Plus, we were supplying other countries throughout WW2. It was luck combined with massive untapped potential that we had the 1950s boom.

If you want to look at actual policy, let's start with the Great Depression. Australia had one too, but they had less government intervention. They snapped back in a fraction of the time. Also, let's look at 1920-1921. The US had what is now called the "Forgotten Depression" because the government immediately scaled back spending, the economy snapped back, and we went on to have a fantastic decade of economic growth.

PS- It sure is easier to implement a socialist policy for a small minority when the population is growing exponentially. When the pie (the population) stops growing (or god forbid, it shrinks), it's like that dance "rosey posey": we all fall down.

[–]tupacsnoducket 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Lol, you just compared the American economy to the Australian that's funny

[–]poseidonofteaAustrian Economics & Liberty 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Economics are only applicable in one context? I thought the cool thing about science is that an apple always falls down, no matter where you are on Earth.

BTW- if you want to argue differences in American and Australian economics make it unsuitable, keep in mind that socialism's major proponents largely point to successes of other, smaller, more homogeneous countries (Scandinavia, Canada, Netherlands, etc).

[–]tupacsnoducket 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah an apple does, too bad an isolated Pacific beef and steel backed economy both staple s and thanks to location, access to Anton of Nations who were not hit by the depression doesn't quite compare to a bi-ocean, super nation with a hilariously more complicated economy and a much much much more robust stock market where the crash began in first place.

This isn't apples and apples, it's not even apples and oranges, it's apples and Strchnine tree.

[–]Crespyl 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Anton of Nations sounds like a cool dude.

[–]tupacsnoducket 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd play it if it was a game.

[–]LaLongueCarabine 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The answer to his question btw is yes.

[–]scungillipig 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah. That one.

[–]Aenemia 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a difference between a liberal and a leftist.

[–]optionhome 4ポイント5ポイント  (12子コメント)

If the person pictured is real and not a plant he would be ridiculed as racist and white privileged. When you are dealing with a religion like liberalism you either are "all in" or you are excommunicated.

[–]Gardimus 70ポイント71ポイント  (6子コメント)

Really? I'm reasonably liberal and I would side with this guy over the SJWs.

There is a vocal minority out there that know how to get attention. Good for this guy for protesting them.

[–]BernieSandersBernie 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

Liberal here. Agree with this.

[–]I_Am_U 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

What are the differences between a social justice warrior and this guy holding the sign? Genuinely curious.

[–]Gardimus 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

The same difference between a SJW and any other protester, like those who picket abortion clinics or those demanding tax reforms; the cause.

Protesting doesn't make someone a SJW. This guys message is that someone should not be forced to be silenced. I can't speak for those he is sending the message to, but for arguments sake lets assume they think that someone is promoting hate speech and should legally be barred from giving speeches. Clearly this guy disagrees with that.

[–]I_Am_U 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Protesting doesn't make someone a SJW.

I think that's a great point. I worry that the definition of SJW is going to be stretched to include "anybody protesting something I disagree with" and then it will end up being used against legitimate protesters.

[–]marvelgirl 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

SJWs want to shut down free speech. They want to make certain speech literally illegal. They dint want Trump to be allowed to say the things he does. This man believes that just because he doesn't agree with Trump, it's important to allow all forms of speech. How the fuck do you ever learn anything new if you don't allow opposite viewpoints?

[–]IGOA2BBYKEEPINGITG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, I'm moderate maybe leaning tad bit liberal(kind of guy that likes Rand,bernie and even trump), but I know there's more than one way to solve a problem(kind of why i like trump).

I just fucking hate how SJW's make liberal's look like a joke. Most SJW's are delusional young girls that have a very warped(and limited) view on life, if they think that silencing someone and being a victim and/or pretending your problems aren't problems, they are terribly wrong. They're pretty similar to evangelical conservatives in some ways, trying to force their "opinions" down everyones hatch.

I don't even know how some can be a liberal, definition-wise, and be a exceptionalist SJW cuck that wants everyone to be "accepting" of everything.

I'm for tolerance, you know, acting civil and tolerant of people you disagree with or dislike, but accepting everyone and all of their choices, lifestyle,etc?(unless you're muslim, than you apparently get a SJW pass)

Man, I wish politics were like they used to be(Jimmy carter and before), not necessarily civil rights-wise, but the whole rationality, common sense, and logic being valued by liberals and conservatives generally would be very nice.

SJW's need to hear this:

“Don't pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.”-JFK

[–]danieljamesfair 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I dunno. Being a Brit, I was raised to think liberalism meant something different to you US folk. So I call myself a liberal, but I'm talking more about the JS Mill kind, which is by most standards rather a right-wing ideology nowadays.

[–]DerMefLibertarian 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, in the US left-wingers took over the word 'liberal' a long time ago, which led to what is 'liberal' in the rest of the world being called 'libertarian' in the US. A recent trend has been to claim the word 'libertarian' as well, introducing distinctions such as 'left-libertarian' and 'right-libertarian'.

I guess you can assume that most people here are American, so you shouldn't call yourself a liberal, it will only be misunderstood.

[–]latinjones 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a liberal and I can't stand the idea of people protesting a candidate for president. They could be spending that time and energy supporting a candidate. Protesting should be used when it's absolutely becessary not just when you disagree with someone trying to convince people to vote for him. Just don't vote for the guy, morons!

[–]tupacsnoducket 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not true at all. Source, the crazy minority is just that, the minority

[–]jeffreyeyr 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, it is that fragile. It's emotion-based.

[–]RagingCajun3195 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's no liberal. He seems pretty rational.

[–]MajorRollin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To answer his question...yes, yes it is.

[–]yohdeals 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank god.

[–]saxophonefartmaster 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not liberal ideology I have a problem with. In fact, I never have. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and in a world of free-thinkers and reasoned human beings, it is natural that individuals will find that certain things make more sense to them than other things.

My problem lies entirely with the stormfront of regressives and people who push their ideals and agendas as if they are gold, all the while completely silencing anyone with a differing opinion. I see this on the right as well, but I feel that it is a bigger problem on the left these days, with the "Triggering" and insane liberal arts students who feel that their 100-level gender studies class has exposed them to whatever insane Utopia they believe in.

[–]Deathmeister [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel like the lack of moderates on both sides is why we don't get much done anymore. Because the far sides on both parties obviously refuse negotiation much to everyone's detriment. Or their 'attempt at negotiation' is my way or the highway...but we're the ones on the highway in the end, not them.

[–]ethericbody 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much sums up liberalism these days.

[–]Puncher_taco 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, then you like a lot of us, apparently.

[–]JIDF-Shill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You really see the crisis in the left here by the popularity of Bernie Safespace Sanders vs. Jim Webb, who was a genuine moderate.

[–]TenalKim Jong-un Conservative 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has beautiful handwriting.

[–]iagar 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Liberalism has been destroyed in recent years, especially in America, by this new generation of social liberals. What we need to realise is that true classical or European liberalism is nearly completely in line with conservative values. Once liberalism has been retaken from these fake liberals pretending to promote 'liberal' values while everything they promote is based on less liberty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

[–]IGOA2BBYKEEPINGITG 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can agree with this. Social "liberals" are fucking retarded, social justice anything is just batshit insane.

[–]ActusPurusBush Conservative -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

At that moment he ceased to be a liberal.

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[–]creepingdeathv2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Protest does not work if it does not disrupt status quo. If people protested without disrupting the rally , nobody would have batted an eye, Granted, it should have been non violent

[–]alclarkeyHurr Durr 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Free speech is protected. Being a disruptive dick is not.

[–]Augustus_Caesar1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thats really not how protesting works.

[–]CaptainPaintball -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

These are the liberals I like.

This is the liberal I like.

[–]CudleWudles [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, there are more than one. The left has idiots and the right has idiots.