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Do people really think moyes is better than lvg? (self.reddevils)

lutekeDe Gea が 投稿

Surely it's just because lvg is more recent

People have really short memories and are even saying moyes football was attacking and daring , yet wasn't this sub complaining how boring and soul destroying it was at the time ?

Moyes inherited a title winning squad and lost the players within a few months by making stupid decisions too soon, yet lvg inherited a squad low on confidence and at least took them 4th

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[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Judging by what I've read on this sub over the last 24 hours, I'd say we have quite a few goldfish.

[–]Omomoo 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is kind of a comparison between dumb & dumber.

Both Moyes & LVG are not healthy for United, simply because they have prioritised their own philosophy or play style over that of United's.

A fatal recipe considering the squad left behind by SAF was built on the daring attacking football for two decades, only for these 2 to come in & play indecisive football.

[–]ReflectingGodMata 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Moyes inherited a title winning squad and lost the players within a few months

Was it though? Technically yes but how many of those players are still playing at that top level? Most were bang average players under a fantastic manager in a season that lacked quality, similar to this season.

De Gea: World class. Verdict: Good enough

Rafael: Despite what this sub says, he is particularly bad. He was injury prone and pretty poor at defending. He moved to Lyon and has been garbage. Verdict: Not good enough

Evra: This is a funny one because he is still playing at quite a high level albeit in a slower and less intense league. He looked finished at United.

Jones: Never has been a top defender. Verdict: Not good enough

Ferdinand: Way over the hill. He moved onto QPR and barely got any gametime. Retired at the end of the season.

Evans: A decent defender but looked better with a good partner, something we lacked. Now plays at a midtable team. Verdict: Not good enough

Smalling: Simply wasn't good enough at the time. Verdict: Not good enough.

Vidic: Also over the hill. Went on to play for Inter and was dreadful, retired the season after.

Michael Carrick: Wasn't brilliant but at the time was still a valuable player. Verdict: Good enough

Giggs: Too old, retired that season. Verdict: Not good enough

Nani: Very inconsistent. Now plays in Turkey which is rather telling. Verdict: not good enough

Young: Like Nani really. We never saw the best of him, midtable player. Verdict: Not good enough

Valencia: Midtable player. Verdict: Not good enough

Fletcher: Midtable player, was also ill at the time. Verdict: Not good enough.

Welbeck: Midtable striker. Verdict: Not good enough

Kagawa: Didn't do anything under Fergie, didn't do anything under Moyes. Verdict: not good enough

Hernandez: Hard to say, he never consistently delivered the goods but would still be a valuable player today. Been pretty good at Leverkusen. Verdict: Good enough.

Rooney: Also hard to say. He had a good season but his overall game looked on the decline. Fergie wanted to replace him, at the time though he probably was good enough. Verdict: Good enough.

Van Persie: Was still a very good striker. Never hit the same form he did under Fergie but also never stayed fit like he did under Fergie. Verdict: Good enough but it didn't matter, injured.

There you can see we have a side of maybe 4 or 5 players that would get into a title winning squad, though only De Gea would start. Moyes was a complete disaster but the squad he inherited was appalling and he also happened to be playing in one of the most competitive and highest quality seasons we've seen in years. Even Everton that finished a place above us would be challenging for the league in this current season where we could yet drop out of top 6. LVG has had more money to spend, he has been able to bring in better players yet we are in this position playing the worst football I've ever seen, the worst part is he has had more time to get to this point... Moyes almost got us to the semi finals of the Champions League whilst LVG bombed out of the easiest group possible, one any other manager with our team would have topped.

Really we're just comparing shit with shit, both are shit end of the day but the notion that Moyes was better than LVG isn't silly or outrageous, in fact, I'd tend to agree with it at this point. If LVG can win us the FA cup, I'd maybe sway towards LVG though I'm not too hopeful.

[–]lutekeDe Gea[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

another stupid reply. you are again part of the group with short memoires. that squad was a title winning squad whether you like it or not, moyes still had more than enough money to add to it but he cocked up and did shit all

he then got on the bad side of senior players, cocked up again

trained van persie till he got injured, cocked up again

these players would of been good enough to make top 4 if moyes didnt do so many cock ups like getting rid of all the back room staff and added a few key additions, but no he cocked up and got 7th or whatever and got sacked within a year

lvg on the otherhand didnt, he at least got 4th, so even though lvg is bad now he is still better than moyes

[–]craigybachaManchester United 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's like comparing two one legged competitors in a race.

[–]Tinkyxwinky 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

They were/are both awful. No one is saying moyes was good lol. You don't need to put words in peoples mouth.

All people are saying is if you compare their seasons directly, moyes was doing better up to this point. Better win rate + he wasn't instantly knocked out of most of his cups like LVG has been. Not to mention LVG has better players than moyes did.

And it's pointless to say oh but LVG took over and got us 4th (playing shit football by the way. De gea and Smalling werr carrying us again). How do we know where moyes would've finished if he got another season?

[–]lutekeDe Gea[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

i did not put words into anyones mouths, people did say they think moyes is better which is what i am saying, so you are wrong there

and no its not pointless, lvg did get us 4th, he survived longer than moyes , with a team that was low on confidence from moyes, that alone proves he is better. moyes couldnt even last a season and you have the audacity to say he was better? your logic is horrible and now you are using stupid what ifs. i could easily go, what if luke shaw wasnt injured, what if we didnt have as many injuries etc but i wont, because what is true is that lvg lasted longer, moyes brought this club to shit within a few months. thats fact.

[–]DublinguistSmalling 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Moyes had to go. So does LVG. Neither is the manager we need. Saying "LVG out" doesn't mean "Moyes in" by definition.

That said.....if I had a second team in Europe, all things considered, I would much rather see Moyes appointed as manager than LVG.

(Well I do have a second team but I think the Irish league might be a very depressing step down for both men)

[–]Shadowbanned24601Formerly /u/colmshan1990 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They both did badly, that's not in question.

I will say that Moyes did seem to try to attack more, he was just worse at it. Van Gaal is better at attacking but hardly ever allows the team to attack without restriction.

Moyes inherited a title winning squad but that came with its own problems. The likes of Ferdinand were not at the same level they had been but refused to listen to Moyes.

The performances of Everton and Liverpool were the main difference between the Moyes season and last year though. United ended up with similar points totals (6 points difference) but wound up three places higher (LVG's 70 points last season would have seen him finish 6th in the Moyes season).

Finally, you can't ignore what Van Gaal has spent. It does not cost £250m to replace Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and Giggs, the difference between Moyes squad and Van Gaal's. Much of the squad Moyes inherited has been judged as not good enough to stay at the club by Van Gaal.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Results were worse under Moyes. Our playing style wasn't.

The sensible argument here is that Moyes should have been given more time to buy the players he wanted and overhaul the club.

Moyes wasn't necessarily better -- we just don't know what would have happened had he been given a couple of years. With what we know now about LVG, a lot of people are rightly thinking "If I'd known it was going to be this bad, I'd have kept Moyes."

[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was no 'playing style' under Moyes. It changed every week depending on what players he chose to put on.

It was always more about preventing the opponent from playing their football than it was about us playing ours.

[–]craigybachaManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

Results weren't worse under Moyes. We're doing worse this year than we did under Moyes :(.
But yes LVG is the better manager.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

We're doing worse this year than we did under Moyes :(

We finished 4th last year and this year we are 6th, one position above where we finished with Moyes.

[–]craigybachaManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You said 'results'. Compare our results (i.e. look at points and results in Europe and we're doing worse)

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I mean results as in the results of him being in charge. Individual games don't matter. History remembers trophies and your league position.

[–]scotty1987 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's some spin. Make sure you don't get dizzy.

Without results, you don't win trophies.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Make sure you don't get dizzy.

Or: it's logical and you're just thick? Or do you really believe that in 1998-99 we were a worse team than in 2000-01 because we won fewer matches in 1998-99 and finished on fewer points?

Exactly.

[–]labtecozaDeutscher Fußballmeister 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

to be fair everyone is doing worse this year than last. Except for Spurs

[–]craigybachaManchester United 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And Leicester ;-)

[–]drexter12 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We absolutely hated Moyes, but LVG had bought his own players, and that is what made it worse. LVG can have NO EXCUSE whatsoever, fucking clown.

[–]itsandercontrolBerbatov -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

People who think that LVG is worse than Moyes are retards. Moyes got Fellaini and Mata in excess of fifty million and couldn't attract world class talent.

[–]scotty1987 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

because lvg has been able to attract world class talent as well hasn't he...

[–]Tinkyxwinky 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

How many world class players did LVG bring in with his quater of a billion in 3 windows?

[–]scotty1987 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Muller, Neymar, Bale, Messi, and Ronaldo all joined.

And then I woke up