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New allegations raised that Bernie Sanders campaign is being sabotaged from within by high level staff with ties to Hillary Clinton. (self.politics)

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[–]NDubbaYa [スコア非表示]  (40子コメント)

Here's the kicker.

This is all on the word of one guy. There's no corroboration, no real proof, or anything meaningful. It's literally one guy.

I think the most hilarious thing is the "references" site which is a wordpress site that looks a holdover from angelfire.

Why do you people do this to yourselves? You look like nutjobs.

[–]ewokskick [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

It's hard not to see this as serious denial. He gives a bunch of evidence that the Sadners campaign was incompetent in NC. Somehow, that means Hillary Clinton must have ordered a black flag op? It makes no sense. More likely, the Sanders campaign was incompetent. Hired bad people who weren't that invested in their campaign or candidate. So of course, they lost. It's their fault and the lesson from this can't be that Hillary is evil. It needs to be (if you are a serious Sanders supporter) that the ground game needs to get better while it still matters.

[–]MrDannyOcean [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

He gives a bunch of evidence that the Sadners campaign was incompetent in NC.

This doesn't even make any sense to begin with, given that North Carolina was by far Bernie's best southern state. If anything, the local Bernie campaign was BETTER than average there:

  • North Carolina - 55-40 loss

all border states

  • South Carolina - 73-26 loss
  • Virginia - 64-35 loss
  • Georgia - 71-28 loss
  • Tennessee 66-32 loss

Yeah, that North Carolina group sure was incompetent...

[–]ewokskick [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's quite possible that the campaign wasn't communicating with this guy very well because he and his organization just aren't that big or important. I am surprised they would deny endorsements, but it's hard to know when the context is so one sided, ramble-y, and conspiratorial. I am giving this guy the benefit of the doubt that there were some poor decisions, but I'm not even confident in that.

Regardless, I think N. Carolina is just significantly different than those other states. More liberal, kind of a purple state. It would stand to reason that Bernie should perform better there even if the local campaign wasn't taking advantage of all their opportunities.

[–]turd-polish[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

For an organizer, Niko failed to lay out a concise argument in detailed form with formal written documentation and supporting remarks. Times, dates, individuals, and details matter.

If he's going to be a lawyer he definitely needs to work on his supporting structure. Videos are fine as long as they are supported by documentation.

[–]bout_that_action [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This doesn't prove anything. What if the Sanders campaign could've done even better?

Also little/no $$ or time was spent on most of those states. So the comparison doesn't make sense.

[–]scottgetsittogether [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or maybe he hired people who did good work for his campaign, and have since moved onto support Clinton now that it looks like she's gong to get the nomination. That puts them in a great position to not lose their jobs come June, continuing to work on the Democratic campaign for President. Even campaign staffers have to think ahead and about where their paycheck's going to come from in a few months.

[–]StressOverStrain [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Sadners

We should make this a thing.

[–]The_Drizzle_Returns [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hired bad people who weren't that invested in their campaign or candidate

Eh his campaign staff are pretty invested in the campaign however they are far from the greatest of choices. The campaign manager for instance is a long time friend of Bernie and worked with him until he retired from politics in 2006 to run a comic shop. He is definitely invested in the campaign but far from the best choice (literally out of politics for close to a decade, never run a national campaign, etc).

The mismanagement really does show to... For instance Sanders supporters are putting all their hope on CA being huge for them... However there are exactly 0 official sanders campaign offices in the state and no official groundwork being setup. In addition the complaint about lack of coordination with the campaign has been something that has been echoed by a lot of grass roots orgs (even in /r/SandersForPresident).

[–]IronSeagull [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think Henry Rollins had anything to do with this.

[–]turd-polish[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Maybe the guy has proof, maybe he doesn't.

One thing is for sure, if Niko doesn't have proof or at the very least other people willing to go on record about management oddities as he claims, then it will come out fast that his allegations are false.

[–]tehbored [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

What if OP is actually a Clinton supporter trying to sabotage the Sanders campaign?

[–]houseonaboat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I know Niko, dude is crazy and very prone to outlandish conspiracy theories.

[–]savuporo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Dude. Jet fuel does not melt steel beams!!

[–]santsi [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Problem is that it's hard to prove stuff like this true unless an insider leaks some proofs and there probably isn't any. It could be either incompetence or malice, both have the same type of results.

[–]turd-polish[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

emails, they never truly go away. ask Hillary! lol

[–]archaelleon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Indeed. I like Bernie, but this is starting to get 'lizard people' crazy

[–]innociv [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well there are the tweets of a Hillary supporter working for the campaign. That seems like evidence. But how wide spread? Dunno.

[–]JamarcusRussel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think this is insane. The media and both parties this whole election cycle has been anti-Trump and anti-Sanders because the political machine wanted a nice simple bush vs clinton race.

[–]DR_MEESEEKS_PHD [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Why do you people do this to yourselves? You look like nutjobs.

you people

Are you mad at people for upvoting OP?

[–]NDubbaYa [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm wondering why they continue essentially hitting themselves in the face each week.

[–]dannytheguitarist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Well, excluding one part of your post, sometimes all it takes is one guy.

Deep Throat? Edward Snowden?

[–]NDubbaYa [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Deep Throat and Snowden had evidence.

This Mr. House has tweets, claims, and accusations.

A Watergate this is not.

[–]dannytheguitarist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In the 21st century, one tweet could blow open a huge door.

Not saying this is the case here, but ya never know.

[–]AntiPrompt [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Are you serious? He linked to Sanders campaign directors openly supporting Clinton on Twitter on election days. If anything, it's unusually obvious. Credibility definitely isn't an issue here.

[–]NDubbaYa [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

https://twitter.com/AishaDew/status/662815125846536192

@HillaryClinton enters the room. It's electric! #FirstInTheSouth

https://www.instagram.com/p/9xDe4tIv_K/

aishadewIt's always great to see @dwstweets. She remembers me.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't justify some kind of massive conspiracy or even suggest support. This whole argument is resting on the videos of one guy and some tweets.

That's too much of a stretch to make.

edit: You need to look at the OP's history because even he/she doesn't know if the accusations are true.

He's/She's just "reporting" it.

[–]turd-polish[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

edit: You need to look at the OP's history

I back up my posts with supporting detailed arguments whenever and wherever I can.

This whole argument is resting on the videos of one guy and some tweets.

I agree. Niko needs to provide actionable proof. Videos are fine if they are accompanied with concise written documentation and supporting arguments that include times, dates, locations and or secondary sources that include first hand witness accounts.

The links (along with others tweets not posted) confirm Aisha was supportive of Hillary up until late November.

I have no clue if she scrubbed her Facebook and Twitter accounts beyond that. By no means does the information presented prove any sort of malfeasance.

Niko House made the allegations, if he has something more concrete he needs to show it, otherwise he should probably take down his vids.

[–]AntiPrompt [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Really? You don't that think tweeting about how Hillary Clinton electrifies a room even suggests support? I can see being a little skeptical about a broad conspiracy, but it's pretty clear that this particular staffer is pro-Clinton.

[–]NDubbaYa [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

We're talking about a sentence and a hug. There is so little information that you can't just make that assumption.

And no. Not a little. Very skeptical. The basis of the argument hinges solely on tweets and the perspective of one man. Now if that expanded, I'd probably back off the whole "calling this a load of bs" thing.

Right now?

We're pulling at strings here.

[–]AntiPrompt [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So what if it's one sentence? The meaning isn't ambiguous at all.

As far as being "a little skeptical": I said it because that would be a reasonable response. What isn't reasonable is calling the whole thing fabricated, or bullshit, or just from one guy, when there are multiple sources, that show Sanders staffers backing Clinton, including some from the staffers themselves. Some doubt is reasonable; throwing the whole thing out the window isn't.

[–]NDubbaYa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I just don't think there's enough to validate these claims.

[–]turd-polish[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That wasn't the only tweet or like Aisha made that was Hillary related, there were others that Niko didn't account for as recent as late Nov 2015.

But as you indicated, support of an opposing candidate while unusual doesn't automatically equate to malfeasance.